Roy, I always so enjoy your great heart and your thinking.
I, too, think of what heaven is like, what will it be like, is it like the pictures say, which puzzles me too.
For me, my children are such opposites in age (27 and 14) and my grand daughter is only 4 and just beginning to ask a few 'who is God' questions, the answers vary as much, it seems, as the people asking them; not a bad gig for me, really. I do tend to apply most of life's questions as applicable to mothering.
I don't know, though.
For my youngest, she wants to know if Daddy is, really, in heaven, watching her. That kinda creeps me out a little, but she finds comfort in it. My oldest is still mad at God and her Daddy, so she wonders if that will keep her from heaven. The 4 year old just think Jesus looks like a nice man and hopes that Grandpa North and her recently dead fish are having a good time there.
I don't know, though.
I may be like you in that I question and find myself wanting in my knowledge of so many things that we're told are supposed to be wonderful and heaven is certainly presented to us that way isn't it?
A friend of mine died two days ago and her husband said to me "she's in a better place, in heaven now, isn't she?" I answered in the affirmative because it gave him comfort. I find that to be the standard response 'in a better place' but it works !
I don't know that it's not the truth, either.
Maybe, just maybe, if it provides us or another comfort, then regardless, it's the right thing to believe. I sure liked lying on my back in the grass, as a child, thinking it'd be really cool to be sitting on those amazing clouds up there.
a simple picture of heaven that makes sense to me...helps me relax
...spaciousness
as if, when our bodies fail...our sense of self begins to return to heaven...our original home...our original nature...which is "space"
or perhaps even "the space that space is in"
in other words...when our bodies fail...our ego dissolves...and awareness of our "original self" (as space) expands rapidly outwardly towards the ends of the universe
as if the human experience is such a potent knot of energy and light...that when it is released from its prison...that illumination explodes
this begins a very very very long and amazing journey of re-discovery...one we can make once we are free from the limits of our human animal self and senses
the underlying patterns of things become clearer than ever
..as we simply expand
...
which is why practicing seeing (experiencing/tasting/touching) this spacious heaven before our bodies die
is a common suggestion/gift of ancient wisdom...of rabbis, saints and sages
"to die before you die" is not a morbid nihilism...but a call to start kicking at the walls of the egg
and no, not just for one's self...but for all
because human suffering ("hell") is a result of not knowing the depths of this radical grace we are already sleeping and dreaming in
and our ego, not knowing heaven... naturally fears death and dying ...and generates a multitude of reactions...many of them violent and destructive toward one another
egos generate myths about who is going to heaven...and who is not
which justifies more war, prejudice, and a general lack of compassion for our universal condition
in this middle place
...
the "great cloud of witnesses"...are those who are already "home"...all of them
no, not disembodied egos fumbling and stumbling through life as they did when in their bodies
...but the trails of pure memory and awakened light
radiating outward into infinity since the moment of their final trump
...lingering in (and as) the memory and light that lives both within and outside of us
...no longer separate entities...but a vast ocean of "life after life"
of course...like Shell said so well...I don't know though
How can we know when we are bound so tight into this physical body and world? At best we can glimpse the next world, perhaps there are some, mystics or saints, who understand more than average people.
I think those things that are important in this world are important in the next--loved ones, family, community, peace, love, understanding...
Hello, Roy, my brother. I sure am glad we have folks like you. You make up for the daydreamers like me. This is how I have heaven figgered out for the short time we will be there. I am an eternity in paradise believer.
O. k. we go up there for the hallelujah hip hop in the big sky. We see our Lord face to face and know even as we are known. I imagine myself wrapping my arms around Him looking deeply into His eyes and saying, "It's about daggum time. What took you so long?" We laugh together and He says, "Daggum it, Kimberly, I knew you were going to say that." We explode in a roar of laughter. I mean after all He knows me so well. We dance and I hold Him as firmly as He has held me all my life. I tell Him, thank you, my Lord, thank you, thank you.
Then some years later, we, the members of His Body, stand back and watch Him open up a can of whoop foot. So shall we ever be with the Lord. I can live with that.
My mind is not big enough to come with an element, that not known to mankind more like non-element make of nothing know to men kind. I see the colors purple, green, black, white, and clear in my visions of what spirit is to me but they all is my God trying to give a small look into the spiritual world.
Interesting that you should use colors as an analogy. As a stained glass guy I look through colored glass all the time. To me colors do have a spiritual energy to them..To gether they can form some sort of transformative mysticism at times that are only symbolic of 'something' that cannot be seen behind them but it can occasionally be sensed...
In a literal sense some of it you can see through a bit , some of it you cant at all-- All of it filters and obscures the reality on the other side of the glass, sometimes all you can see is an elusive glimpse or a shadow of what may be happening on the outside.
I suppose someone could write a huge long poetic description of 'heaven'. I sure can't.
I think the best and most accurate description for me is 'I dont know' and 'We see through a glass darkly' is about as close as I ever expect to get on this side
Isn't it cool that nobody really knows what heaven is like? God has certain things that he keeps as surprises for us. That's as it should be. We just get to keep guessing until we see the real thing! Sorta like little kids on Christmas Eve. Fun, huh?
C.S. Lewis said that heaven will be a place of joy; where what is considered "frivolous and unimportant" on earth will be placed first, for "Joy is the serious business of heaven."
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Shellon
Roy, I always so enjoy your great heart and your thinking.
I, too, think of what heaven is like, what will it be like, is it like the pictures say, which puzzles me too.
For me, my children are such opposites in age (27 and 14) and my grand daughter is only 4 and just beginning to ask a few 'who is God' questions, the answers vary as much, it seems, as the people asking them; not a bad gig for me, really. I do tend to apply most of life's questions as applicable to mothering.
I don't know, though.
For my youngest, she wants to know if Daddy is, really, in heaven, watching her. That kinda creeps me out a little, but she finds comfort in it. My oldest is still mad at God and her Daddy, so she wonders if that will keep her from heaven. The 4 year old just think Jesus looks like a nice man and hopes that Grandpa North and her recently dead fish are having a good time there.
I don't know, though.
I may be like you in that I question and find myself wanting in my knowledge of so many things that we're told are supposed to be wonderful and heaven is certainly presented to us that way isn't it?
A friend of mine died two days ago and her husband said to me "she's in a better place, in heaven now, isn't she?" I answered in the affirmative because it gave him comfort. I find that to be the standard response 'in a better place' but it works !
I don't know that it's not the truth, either.
Maybe, just maybe, if it provides us or another comfort, then regardless, it's the right thing to believe. I sure liked lying on my back in the grass, as a child, thinking it'd be really cool to be sitting on those amazing clouds up there.
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year2027
God first
hi Shellon
the fish think blesses me to think children love that big to want they fish in heaven
I sure God will take her fish
yes we been taught so must error it hard know the right thing to speak
when anything is fine just like you did
from what I read
it not lying to give some one comfort
love Roy
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sirguessalot
you sure know how to ask em, dear brother Roy
...
a simple picture of heaven that makes sense to me...helps me relax
...spaciousness
as if, when our bodies fail...our sense of self begins to return to heaven...our original home...our original nature...which is "space"
or perhaps even "the space that space is in"
in other words...when our bodies fail...our ego dissolves...and awareness of our "original self" (as space) expands rapidly outwardly towards the ends of the universe
as if the human experience is such a potent knot of energy and light...that when it is released from its prison...that illumination explodes
this begins a very very very long and amazing journey of re-discovery...one we can make once we are free from the limits of our human animal self and senses
the underlying patterns of things become clearer than ever
..as we simply expand
...
which is why practicing seeing (experiencing/tasting/touching) this spacious heaven before our bodies die
is a common suggestion/gift of ancient wisdom...of rabbis, saints and sages
"to die before you die" is not a morbid nihilism...but a call to start kicking at the walls of the egg
and no, not just for one's self...but for all
because human suffering ("hell") is a result of not knowing the depths of this radical grace we are already sleeping and dreaming in
and our ego, not knowing heaven... naturally fears death and dying ...and generates a multitude of reactions...many of them violent and destructive toward one another
egos generate myths about who is going to heaven...and who is not
which justifies more war, prejudice, and a general lack of compassion for our universal condition
in this middle place
...
the "great cloud of witnesses"...are those who are already "home"...all of them
no, not disembodied egos fumbling and stumbling through life as they did when in their bodies
...but the trails of pure memory and awakened light
radiating outward into infinity since the moment of their final trump
...lingering in (and as) the memory and light that lives both within and outside of us
...no longer separate entities...but a vast ocean of "life after life"
of course...like Shell said so well...I don't know though
it only seems to seem to seem
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year2027
God first
hi Todd
I guess that one could say "I don't know though"
but you say it with some most style my friend
that is magic to me but I know some
until I began to kick in the belly of life
and I die to be reborn
love Roy
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sirguessalot
this quote from T.S. Eliot that reminds me of all this...
"We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time."
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waysider
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm6BlvCgG0I&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm6BlvCgG0I&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm6BlvCgG0I&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
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Bramble
How can we know when we are bound so tight into this physical body and world? At best we can glimpse the next world, perhaps there are some, mystics or saints, who understand more than average people.
I think those things that are important in this world are important in the next--loved ones, family, community, peace, love, understanding...
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year2027
God first
hi Todd and waysider and Bramble
Todd - yes my friend
waysider -Thank you I enjoy that my friend
Bramble - "perhaps there are some ....saints, who understand more " perhaps yes they are important
love Roy
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kimberly
Hello, Roy, my brother. I sure am glad we have folks like you. You make up for the daydreamers like me. This is how I have heaven figgered out for the short time we will be there. I am an eternity in paradise believer.
O. k. we go up there for the hallelujah hip hop in the big sky. We see our Lord face to face and know even as we are known. I imagine myself wrapping my arms around Him looking deeply into His eyes and saying, "It's about daggum time. What took you so long?" We laugh together and He says, "Daggum it, Kimberly, I knew you were going to say that." We explode in a roar of laughter. I mean after all He knows me so well. We dance and I hold Him as firmly as He has held me all my life. I tell Him, thank you, my Lord, thank you, thank you.
Then some years later, we, the members of His Body, stand back and watch Him open up a can of whoop foot. So shall we ever be with the Lord. I can live with that.
That is just the way I think of that stuff.
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Ham
wowser..
maybe this existence is a cosmic five second "time out"..
sheesh..we came from perfection.. and in any fundamental belief, this is true..
I watched my cat play with a small blue toy mouse today.. she would toss it, hide it.. and pretend to discover it anew in play..
maybe we are the same..
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mstar1
Interesting that you should use colors as an analogy. As a stained glass guy I look through colored glass all the time. To me colors do have a spiritual energy to them..To gether they can form some sort of transformative mysticism at times that are only symbolic of 'something' that cannot be seen behind them but it can occasionally be sensed...
In a literal sense some of it you can see through a bit , some of it you cant at all-- All of it filters and obscures the reality on the other side of the glass, sometimes all you can see is an elusive glimpse or a shadow of what may be happening on the outside.
I suppose someone could write a huge long poetic description of 'heaven'. I sure can't.
I think the best and most accurate description for me is 'I dont know' and 'We see through a glass darkly' is about as close as I ever expect to get on this side
Whoever said that said a mouthful
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year2027
God first
hi kimberly and Ham and mstar1
kimberly - I wish I could see though your my friend
Ham - maybe who knows
mstar1- yes I sense at times yes you have a mouthful but it bless me
love Roy
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Shifra
Isn't it cool that nobody really knows what heaven is like? God has certain things that he keeps as surprises for us. That's as it should be. We just get to keep guessing until we see the real thing! Sorta like little kids on Christmas Eve. Fun, huh?
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year2027
God first
hi Shifra
yes my friend
I like how picture it
that blesses me when I think of it like you said
love Roy
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Tzaia
C.S. Lewis said that heaven will be a place of joy; where what is considered "frivolous and unimportant" on earth will be placed first, for "Joy is the serious business of heaven."
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year2027
God first
hi Tzaia
yes joy is a "serious business of heaven."
love Roy
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