"Alamo's 'Child Bride' Says Evangelist Leader Controlled All Aspects of Life
TEXARKANA, Ark. — In the years after evangelist Tony Alamo took the 14-year-old girl as a bride, she said, she caught glimpses of her father on the surveillance cameras that fed into the minister's office.
As her father walked by outside, monitors provided views from every angle. But even though only a few walls and doors separated them, leaving Alamo's home without permission was unthinkable.
Alamo was a prophet, she'd been taught. He was "God's chosen one." And she was scared.
"I felt uncomfortable asking Tony to see my dad," the woman, now 20, testified at his federal trial on charges that he took underage girls across state lines for sex.
"So you had to ask Tony's permission before you could go outside and see your father?" a prosecutor asked.
"Yes."
The woman, who left Alamo's compound in Arkansas three years ago, was one of many witnesses whose testimony offered a rare glimpse inside the evangelist's secretive ministry. They said Alamo made the decisions: who got married, what children were taught in school, who got clothes, who was allowed to eat. He also chose which of his followers to "marry," witnesses said — including one girl who was 8 years old.
"He had control over everything," testified a 30-year-old woman who said she was another child bride.
Families moved state to state at Alamo's command, living in apartments, trailers or houses owned by the ministry. The church had a language of its own: Alamo as "Papa Tony," new members as "baby Christians" and those suspect few living outside as "visiting Christians."
At his compounds in Arkansas, students learned Alamo-approved curriculums, with ninth-grade biology tossed aside because the course material discussed sex, one witness said. Alamo began separating the sexes in the 1990s, and by the time he was released from prison following his 1994 tax evasion conviction, brothers and sisters often lived separate lives, another woman said.
In the 1980s, Alamo's ministry sold elaborately designed denim jackets made by members to celebrities. At the compound more recently, followers filled out request forms for everything, whether clothing or toiletries. Alamo himself approved all expenditures, witnesses said."
================
That's a lot of different things.
Which one did you want to know about- if anything like it happened in twi that we know about?
Much of this parallels what happened in The Way. Substitute MOG for "chosen one". Substitute Motorcoach for Alamo's "special" bedroom arrangement. Substitute Harley's for"ponies in the backyard". Substitute babes in the word for "baby Christians". Note that followers were expected to live on minimal subsistence while the leader lived like a king. Note that they had their own special language and were expected to maintain an attitude of submission. And so on.
1.Holding people against their will
Most of this was of a psychological nature. When you are stuck in the middle of nowhere with no money or transportation, it can feel like you are being held. Add that to the "hedge of protection" concept that basically states you can never really leave "the household" without leaving yourself open to an attack from the boogie man.
And, as was pointed out, there is a documented incident on the front page of this very website, that details the house arrest, at gun point, of a former Way leader. (Through the fog)
2. Withholding food.
Yes. In fellow laborers, we had a food co-op. If you didn't make your weekly payment, you had to sit at meals with the group but were not allowed to eat. It was not permitted for anyone to offer you part of their share or offer to make a payment on your behalf. (We found ways around this one.)
3. Beaten with boards
I never personally witnessed anyone being physically beaten. Many of our posters who spent their childhood in The Way, though, have posted first hand accounts of severe corporal punishment for misbehavior and non-compliance. One poster has stated that she and her husband were admonished, by leadership, to discipline their child with a 2x4.
Armed guards walked the various Way properties and functions.
One poster here has stated it was part of his responsibility, as a HQ staffer, to maintain the evesdropping "bugs" in the BRC.
So I would have to conclude that MANY similar things happened in The Way.
I was in twi for 17 years; 4 of those were spent at HQ and 2 at Rome City.
I never saw or knew of anyone held against his/her will. I never saw or heard of food withheld as any kind of punishment. I never saw or heard of anyone beatean with boards.
There was a young guy who used to come to a home fellowship I went to pre-twi. He got into the group that's the subject of the first post. We went to see him. We were not permitted to see or speak with him. This was way before there was much about cults or abusive religious groups in the media, and we were young ourselves, or maybe we would have called the cops and asked why we couldn't see our friend. I hope he woke up and left the group.
Religions DO seem to have a lot of similarities - when it comes to excesses - no matter the brand, though. Animosity towards the Catholic Church is a popular trait, as well as a strong aversion to modern medicine, income tax, police, or anything that could threaten their power or cashflow. And, naturally, the lead dog gets his pick of the women...
Ham is right. In Corps training there was a good man who was essentially held hostage until plane tickets could be purchased to send him and his family back to Europe. I knew this family well, as they were in training with my family at the Indian Campus. They were banished to their rooms until travel arrangements were in place, and the rest of us (who really loved these folks) were ordered to leave them alone.
As for dietary restrictions, well, we weren't allowed to use black pepper - Oh, the sin of it! - or to drink coffee with our meals. Nothing with onions was ever cooked or served when Martindale was visiting the campus, because he didn't like the smell. And as a "back-room girl", I was expected to remember each and every leader's preferences for beverages, condiments on their sandwiches, everything. If I had to actually ask them for this information, I was promptly reprimanded by my supervisor. Weird how FOOD becomes such a point of control.
One big difference from the Arkansas group is that the Way's clergy weren't interested in little girls. No. They were more interested in married women.
When I was a WOW, in our WOW family, if you didn't work, you weren't allowed to eat, even though food you had purchased sat in the pantry. One time between jobs I owned one loaf of bread, some mayo and a shaker of parmesan (SP) cheese. I sneaked and made sandwiches for a few days until I got some more work.
One big difference from the Arkansas group is that the Way's clergy weren't interested in little girls. No. They were more interested in married women.
Food is the one thing that can be easily controlled. That is why it is used so often to control... along with the fact that it is essential to our very life and can create a false sense of connection when some one else is in charge of your only source to such a necessary element to living.
I find the WOW family story disquieting, in the extreme... and the story of the family locked in their room is disgusting.
I know this is not the right thread but Thank God for Grease spot and the information in it, or I would still think of the ministry as something Godly... Now it is just this horrible evil thing in my mind.
When I was a WOW, in our WOW family, if you didn't work, you weren't allowed to eat, even though food you had purchased sat in the pantry. One time between jobs I owned one loaf of bread, some mayo and a shaker of parmesan (SP) cheese. I sneaked and made sandwiches for a few days until I got some more work.
WG
Leafy called this disquieting. I am stunned by these stories.
One of the Corps Wow's who was running the PFAL class that I took was dating me(this started after I was already taking the class) and HE did a couple of things that made me mentally walk away from him and eventually end the relationship... at the time I thought it was just him but now I suspect it was a behavior taught in TWI..
The first thing was he asked me if I wanted to go to Pizza hut for an all you can eat salad which consisted of me getting an all you can eat salad and him eating off my plate.... I offered to pay for him but no he felt it was his due .. He tried to do it a second time and I wouldn't let him.. I told him i would pay for his...but I would not do what amounted to stealing ...
he told me they over charged and so that justified it.
the other thing he did was we went out to eat at a restaurant and he ordered some food and purposefully complained that his food was not perfect and made the girl take it back and complained again when she brought it back in order to get a free meal.
then he wouldn't tip her because the service was not up to his standards...
I was so angry by the time we left.. It was the beginning of the end of that relationship for me. I have been a waitress and it is not an easy job but to purposely treat her. by yelling at her .. I felt it was completely uncalled for.
I ran in to another Corps guy who also thought it was okay to steal if you were needing food.. granted it was from a farmers field but I feel like stealing is stealing no matter what.
Now that I read a lot of this stuff on here I wonder was this something encouraged from HQ.. or was he really a total foot or picked up on the jerkiness of the head leaders and copied it... Don't get me wrong a bad person is going to be bad but it seems like leadership gave people a free ticket to be mean and disrespectful to people not to mention encouraged them to torture and abuse.
Now that I read a lot of this stuff on here I wonder was this something encouraged from HQ.. or was he really a total foot or picked up on the jerkiness of the head leaders and copied it... Don't get me wrong a bad person is going to be bad but it seems like leadership gave people a free ticket to be mean and disrespectful to people not to mention encouraged them to torture and abuse.
I don't know.
It sounds like they might have been a couple of butt heads before they ever heard about The Way.
But, that's part of the problem with this doctrine of "special entitlement" that TWI promotes. It gives people like this a license to follow their pre-existing inclinations without a sense of guilt. I suppose one could apply this same logic to other types of unacceptable behaviors that were rationalized in TWI. They used convoluted reasoning that stemmed from a sense of being "the chosen ones".
Now that I read a lot of this stuff on here I wonder was this something encouraged from HQ.. or was he really a total foot or picked up on the jerkiness of the head leaders and copied it... Don't get me wrong a bad person is going to be bad but it seems like leadership gave people a free ticket to be mean and disrespectful to people not to mention encouraged them to torture and abuse.
When I was at Emporia Pat Lynn "reproved" the corpse. Apparentally so many of us were going into local restaurants and not leaving tips, only ordering drinks, and then leaving a mess for the waitress to clean up. So, no, it wasn't something that was "taught". It sounds like the those guys were jerks in their own right in or out of TWI. But I agree with Waysider when he says that TWI promoted a "better than you" attitude that opened the way to act out attitudes like this. Also, there was a poverty mentality in The Way where people would do cheap little things like I mentioned earlier.
I don't know about holding someone against their will, but I do know that my Corps sis was not allowed to go to a family wedding (her sister, I think) because it would interfere with her Corps training. I think it was a few States away but the airfare was proferred so that she could attend. The person in rez was told that they could catch up with the bride and groom when they'd completed their in rez training.
However, on another occasion, someone else in rez was allowed to attend the funeral of a family member (grandfather?). They were given maybe 3 days to get there and back. I don't know if they asked for time to visit prior to the deceased's death and to say last goodbyes. The family was dysfunctional and the deceased was unlikely to have been a believer of any stripe.
WG, I can't believe that! :wacko: What happened to sharing of one's abundance? I guess your WoW coord forgot about how manna was shared out - a nice OT story "for our learning" - or not !!! Bleeargh...
I grew up at HQ and never saw or experienced anything that compared to the Tony and Susan Alamo Foundation.
However, I saw kids being spanked with wooden spoons and then their parent put their hand over the baby’s mouth until they stopped crying. I remember the colon cleanse and couldn’t understand why I had to drink slimy/gritty water for a week. It was disgusting! It was hard to go to school and see kids eat and know that I wouldn’t have a meal for a week. Then – raw sauerkraut and grapes just didn’t cut it! I also remember some of my friends being sexually abused – not because TWI promoted it - but because their parents were too busy with meetings, witnessing, and working to be around to supervise.
But, that's part of the problem with this doctrine of "special entitlement" that TWI promotes. It gives people like this a license to follow their pre-existing inclinations without a sense of guilt. I suppose one could apply this same logic to other types of unacceptable behaviors that were rationalized in TWI. They used convoluted reasoning that stemmed from a sense of being "the chosen ones".
Just my opinion
Brilliantly said! I think that is why we saw alcoholism, abuse, adultery, basically anything that we wanted to do, we learned to justify and excuse biblically.
I know one of our posters here told about being refused food on the wow field when out of work.
I read of an account here at gs where a fellow was sick in res and the ptb`s decided that if someone was too sick to walk to the dining room, they were too sick to eat and the rest of the corpes were forbidden to bring him anything. I think the poor fellow lay in serious trouble for days before he was finally helped...(maybe by mrs w on a visit).
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WordWolf
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,533871,00.html
"Alamo's 'Child Bride' Says Evangelist Leader Controlled All Aspects of Life
TEXARKANA, Ark. — In the years after evangelist Tony Alamo took the 14-year-old girl as a bride, she said, she caught glimpses of her father on the surveillance cameras that fed into the minister's office.
As her father walked by outside, monitors provided views from every angle. But even though only a few walls and doors separated them, leaving Alamo's home without permission was unthinkable.
Alamo was a prophet, she'd been taught. He was "God's chosen one." And she was scared.
"I felt uncomfortable asking Tony to see my dad," the woman, now 20, testified at his federal trial on charges that he took underage girls across state lines for sex.
"So you had to ask Tony's permission before you could go outside and see your father?" a prosecutor asked.
"Yes."
The woman, who left Alamo's compound in Arkansas three years ago, was one of many witnesses whose testimony offered a rare glimpse inside the evangelist's secretive ministry. They said Alamo made the decisions: who got married, what children were taught in school, who got clothes, who was allowed to eat. He also chose which of his followers to "marry," witnesses said — including one girl who was 8 years old.
"He had control over everything," testified a 30-year-old woman who said she was another child bride.
Families moved state to state at Alamo's command, living in apartments, trailers or houses owned by the ministry. The church had a language of its own: Alamo as "Papa Tony," new members as "baby Christians" and those suspect few living outside as "visiting Christians."
At his compounds in Arkansas, students learned Alamo-approved curriculums, with ninth-grade biology tossed aside because the course material discussed sex, one witness said. Alamo began separating the sexes in the 1990s, and by the time he was released from prison following his 1994 tax evasion conviction, brothers and sisters often lived separate lives, another woman said.
In the 1980s, Alamo's ministry sold elaborately designed denim jackets made by members to celebrities. At the compound more recently, followers filled out request forms for everything, whether clothing or toiletries. Alamo himself approved all expenditures, witnesses said."
================
That's a lot of different things.
Which one did you want to know about- if anything like it happened in twi that we know about?
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Tzaia
Holding people against their will.
Withholding food as punishment.
Beating people with boards.
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Ham
There was at least one leadership type held under house arrest until they could properly coordinate his departure..
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waysider
Much of this parallels what happened in The Way. Substitute MOG for "chosen one". Substitute Motorcoach for Alamo's "special" bedroom arrangement. Substitute Harley's for"ponies in the backyard". Substitute babes in the word for "baby Christians". Note that followers were expected to live on minimal subsistence while the leader lived like a king. Note that they had their own special language and were expected to maintain an attitude of submission. And so on.
1.Holding people against their will
Most of this was of a psychological nature. When you are stuck in the middle of nowhere with no money or transportation, it can feel like you are being held. Add that to the "hedge of protection" concept that basically states you can never really leave "the household" without leaving yourself open to an attack from the boogie man.
And, as was pointed out, there is a documented incident on the front page of this very website, that details the house arrest, at gun point, of a former Way leader. (Through the fog)
2. Withholding food.
Yes. In fellow laborers, we had a food co-op. If you didn't make your weekly payment, you had to sit at meals with the group but were not allowed to eat. It was not permitted for anyone to offer you part of their share or offer to make a payment on your behalf. (We found ways around this one.)
3. Beaten with boards
I never personally witnessed anyone being physically beaten. Many of our posters who spent their childhood in The Way, though, have posted first hand accounts of severe corporal punishment for misbehavior and non-compliance. One poster has stated that she and her husband were admonished, by leadership, to discipline their child with a 2x4.
Armed guards walked the various Way properties and functions.
One poster here has stated it was part of his responsibility, as a HQ staffer, to maintain the evesdropping "bugs" in the BRC.
So I would have to conclude that MANY similar things happened in The Way.
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Linda Z
I was in twi for 17 years; 4 of those were spent at HQ and 2 at Rome City.
I never saw or knew of anyone held against his/her will. I never saw or heard of food withheld as any kind of punishment. I never saw or heard of anyone beatean with boards.
There was a young guy who used to come to a home fellowship I went to pre-twi. He got into the group that's the subject of the first post. We went to see him. We were not permitted to see or speak with him. This was way before there was much about cults or abusive religious groups in the media, and we were young ourselves, or maybe we would have called the cops and asked why we couldn't see our friend. I hope he woke up and left the group.
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George Aar
Religions DO seem to have a lot of similarities - when it comes to excesses - no matter the brand, though. Animosity towards the Catholic Church is a popular trait, as well as a strong aversion to modern medicine, income tax, police, or anything that could threaten their power or cashflow. And, naturally, the lead dog gets his pick of the women...
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waysider
Held against their will.
For anyone who may have missed it, here is the link to Through the Fog
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/radio/episodes/the-road-to-the-letter-to-the-board-of-trustees-1987.html
Additionally, would "Momentus"-like sessions fall into this category?
You know---The ones where the exit doors were "guarded" and people were forbidden to leave.
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Shifra
Ham is right. In Corps training there was a good man who was essentially held hostage until plane tickets could be purchased to send him and his family back to Europe. I knew this family well, as they were in training with my family at the Indian Campus. They were banished to their rooms until travel arrangements were in place, and the rest of us (who really loved these folks) were ordered to leave them alone.
As for dietary restrictions, well, we weren't allowed to use black pepper - Oh, the sin of it! - or to drink coffee with our meals. Nothing with onions was ever cooked or served when Martindale was visiting the campus, because he didn't like the smell. And as a "back-room girl", I was expected to remember each and every leader's preferences for beverages, condiments on their sandwiches, everything. If I had to actually ask them for this information, I was promptly reprimanded by my supervisor. Weird how FOOD becomes such a point of control.
One big difference from the Arkansas group is that the Way's clergy weren't interested in little girls. No. They were more interested in married women.
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Watered Garden
When I was a WOW, in our WOW family, if you didn't work, you weren't allowed to eat, even though food you had purchased sat in the pantry. One time between jobs I owned one loaf of bread, some mayo and a shaker of parmesan (SP) cheese. I sneaked and made sandwiches for a few days until I got some more work.
WG
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JustThinking
When that's the best one can say about a group...
JT
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leafytwiglet
Food is the one thing that can be easily controlled. That is why it is used so often to control... along with the fact that it is essential to our very life and can create a false sense of connection when some one else is in charge of your only source to such a necessary element to living.
I find the WOW family story disquieting, in the extreme... and the story of the family locked in their room is disgusting.
I know this is not the right thread but Thank God for Grease spot and the information in it, or I would still think of the ministry as something Godly... Now it is just this horrible evil thing in my mind.
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Tzaia
Leafy called this disquieting. I am stunned by these stories.
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WordWolf
Every time you think you've seen it all among what was done in twi, you read something like this....
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leafytwiglet
One of the Corps Wow's who was running the PFAL class that I took was dating me(this started after I was already taking the class) and HE did a couple of things that made me mentally walk away from him and eventually end the relationship... at the time I thought it was just him but now I suspect it was a behavior taught in TWI..
The first thing was he asked me if I wanted to go to Pizza hut for an all you can eat salad which consisted of me getting an all you can eat salad and him eating off my plate.... I offered to pay for him but no he felt it was his due .. He tried to do it a second time and I wouldn't let him.. I told him i would pay for his...but I would not do what amounted to stealing ...
he told me they over charged and so that justified it.
the other thing he did was we went out to eat at a restaurant and he ordered some food and purposefully complained that his food was not perfect and made the girl take it back and complained again when she brought it back in order to get a free meal.
then he wouldn't tip her because the service was not up to his standards...
I was so angry by the time we left.. It was the beginning of the end of that relationship for me. I have been a waitress and it is not an easy job but to purposely treat her. by yelling at her .. I felt it was completely uncalled for.
I ran in to another Corps guy who also thought it was okay to steal if you were needing food.. granted it was from a farmers field but I feel like stealing is stealing no matter what.
Now that I read a lot of this stuff on here I wonder was this something encouraged from HQ.. or was he really a total foot or picked up on the jerkiness of the head leaders and copied it... Don't get me wrong a bad person is going to be bad but it seems like leadership gave people a free ticket to be mean and disrespectful to people not to mention encouraged them to torture and abuse.
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waysider
I don't know.
It sounds like they might have been a couple of butt heads before they ever heard about The Way.
But, that's part of the problem with this doctrine of "special entitlement" that TWI promotes. It gives people like this a license to follow their pre-existing inclinations without a sense of guilt. I suppose one could apply this same logic to other types of unacceptable behaviors that were rationalized in TWI. They used convoluted reasoning that stemmed from a sense of being "the chosen ones".
Just my opinion
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Broken Arrow
Now that I read a lot of this stuff on here I wonder was this something encouraged from HQ.. or was he really a total foot or picked up on the jerkiness of the head leaders and copied it... Don't get me wrong a bad person is going to be bad but it seems like leadership gave people a free ticket to be mean and disrespectful to people not to mention encouraged them to torture and abuse.
When I was at Emporia Pat Lynn "reproved" the corpse. Apparentally so many of us were going into local restaurants and not leaving tips, only ordering drinks, and then leaving a mess for the waitress to clean up. So, no, it wasn't something that was "taught". It sounds like the those guys were jerks in their own right in or out of TWI. But I agree with Waysider when he says that TWI promoted a "better than you" attitude that opened the way to act out attitudes like this. Also, there was a poverty mentality in The Way where people would do cheap little things like I mentioned earlier.
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Twinky
I don't know about holding someone against their will, but I do know that my Corps sis was not allowed to go to a family wedding (her sister, I think) because it would interfere with her Corps training. I think it was a few States away but the airfare was proferred so that she could attend. The person in rez was told that they could catch up with the bride and groom when they'd completed their in rez training.
However, on another occasion, someone else in rez was allowed to attend the funeral of a family member (grandfather?). They were given maybe 3 days to get there and back. I don't know if they asked for time to visit prior to the deceased's death and to say last goodbyes. The family was dysfunctional and the deceased was unlikely to have been a believer of any stripe.
WG, I can't believe that! :wacko: What happened to sharing of one's abundance? I guess your WoW coord forgot about how manna was shared out - a nice OT story "for our learning" - or not !!! Bleeargh...
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hollyc
I grew up at HQ and never saw or experienced anything that compared to the Tony and Susan Alamo Foundation.
However, I saw kids being spanked with wooden spoons and then their parent put their hand over the baby’s mouth until they stopped crying. I remember the colon cleanse and couldn’t understand why I had to drink slimy/gritty water for a week. It was disgusting! It was hard to go to school and see kids eat and know that I wouldn’t have a meal for a week. Then – raw sauerkraut and grapes just didn’t cut it! I also remember some of my friends being sexually abused – not because TWI promoted it - but because their parents were too busy with meetings, witnessing, and working to be around to supervise.
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rascal
Brilliantly said! I think that is why we saw alcoholism, abuse, adultery, basically anything that we wanted to do, we learned to justify and excuse biblically.
I know one of our posters here told about being refused food on the wow field when out of work.
I read of an account here at gs where a fellow was sick in res and the ptb`s decided that if someone was too sick to walk to the dining room, they were too sick to eat and the rest of the corpes were forbidden to bring him anything. I think the poor fellow lay in serious trouble for days before he was finally helped...(maybe by mrs w on a visit).
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