Prove ALL things

[skyrider]

On another thread, this post from Chockfull needs repeating......and its own thread.

I have something to say to the "get over it" crowd. The scripture involved is I Thess 5:21 - "prove all things; hold fast that which is good".

In the time I have been around these forums, those defending abusive groups like TWI have brought this argument up, that this site and forums consist of people who don't want to "get over it" and just want to keep rehashing old issues and being bitter. TWI current members and leaders view those on this site consisting of people that "hate the ministry" or want to "stay hurt" or are "bitter".

Labeling people makes it easier to build prejudice, and prejudice is a great way to avoid contemplating the truth that a person or group of people bring up.

To fulfill the scripture above in I Thess 5:21, two actions are required:

1) Prove all things

2) Hold fast that which is good

Prove is a derivative of the greek dokimazo, which has common means of trial by fire, purification, and secular references to money changers who would not shave their coins and cheat their customers.

To prove all things, behavior that is contrary to God's Word, God's love, God's intent for His children need to be examined, tried by fire, weighed and balanced. For TWI's leadership, this is what TWI members do not do. Because of the "caste" system in TWI, leaders hold themselves beyond judgement except to their employers. The BOD answers to nobody. Atrocities are swept under the carpet, lies are told and upheld, people are burned and their good reputations impunged and slandered, and anyone with an opinion different than the leaders is eventually blackballed. That is simply not proving all things. Nothing is proven, tested, tried with respect to the behavior and actions of leaders who place themselves above God's people. TWI members develop a "pollyanna" mentality where they are just going to focus on the positive and hope that if they ignore the negative it will go away.

The second part of the verse is to hold fast that which is good - once things are proven and exposed and tried as in the first part of the verse, then one can assimilate the good into themselves and have it a beneficial part of them. Assimilating evil practices into one's self is not holding fast to that which is good.

Here is the rub, TWI supporters. YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ALL THINGS, so you cannot hold fast to that which is good. The evil you knew about and supported, or learned about, that tarnishes your soul. It prevents honestly holding fast to the good because the evil was not confronted.

In one sense the whole existence of GreaseSpot is to prove all things. It is to expose the evil in TWI and offshoots, and confront it. As members aren't subject to punitive retribution here like they are in TWI and offshoots, they are free to share of their accounts of what happened to them (which people still question), expose evil, and confront it.

It is up to the responsibility of each member or poster on GreaseSpot to hold fast to that which is good. There are good experiences, people, scriptures, etc. that we encountered while in TWI. God desires us to integrate into our souls the good, while confronting the evil. Each person has to define for themselves what that means. You cannot judge for another soul which they are doing and say "get over it". The process has to be fulfilled for each person individually. It is a personal growth thing.

So to the pollyannas the message is "prove all things". To the hurt and bitter, after proving all things, the message is "hold fast that which is good". We all choose which message we need at the moment, and it can change depending on where we are at for the moment.

And, reading the next verse.........Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Far too many were indoctrinated into "the way of wierwille's rightly-divided word".........and GreaseSpot is needful to point out THE EVIL (ie doctrinal deception, unbridled adulation to mogs, sexual predation, financial exploiting, manipulation, plagiarism issues, etc. etc.).

Later, under martindale's regime, the buzz-phraseology morphed to "the present truth"......another bewitching from obeying the truth, the scriptures.

Thankfully, this site GreaseSpot, addresses the other side of twi to help us PROVE ALL THINGS.

Open dialogue is a beautiful thing.

:)

[Bolshevik]

Eph 6:1, proven bologna. lol

[year2027]

God first

hi skyrider

you never prove all things to the world or any cult

you can only prove things in your heart

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

19 Quench not the Spirit.

20 Despise not prophesyings.

21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

23 ¶ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

25 Brethren, pray for us.

26 Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.

27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.

28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. <<The first epistle to the Thessalonians was written from Athens

one can only do in the heart a inward proving proving

the money changers is a outward proving of things but we prove to ourselves

love Roy

[chockfull]

you never prove all things to the world or any cult

you can only prove things in your heart

...

the money changers is a outward proving of things but we prove to ourselves

Roy,

Ultimately we all need to prove things to our own heart. Especially the quality of our own lives like the genuine money changers.

Yet we can prove things to the world also, as well as to a cult. The lawsuits against Martindale are an example. They proved his depravity to the world, as well as to the cult, and they excommunicated him eventually.

Likewise the deceptive in TWI of VPW before him, and RFR after him may be proven and exposed. As can the corrupt motives of the leaders protecting their own little piece of the pie. Once evil is exposed, one can abstain from it. When it is concealed, not so much.

To our own hearts, and to all hearts, evil and good will be exposed eventually, with the return of our Lord.

[year2027]

God first

Hi chockfull

some times you will not be able to prove things to the world that why the bible is only talking your hearts

sure its good to exposed evil everywhere but the word talking the heart

i love you but your wrong you asking the impossible

the courts can prove some things

but the heart can prove anything or unproved

love Roy

[JeffSjo]

Cool thread Skyrider,

It makes plain to me that it is pretty darn hard to hold to the "good things" when TWI leadership has been freakishly persistent in trying to hide or distort the "evil things."

[chockfull]

some times you will not be able to prove things to the world that why the bible is only talking your hearts

Hi Roy,

Sometimes you won't be able to publicly, but sometimes you will. The Bible talking to my heart tells me to prove all things, including exposing the evil that is in TWI leadership that has impacted my life and impacts so many others. I don't know what the Bible talking to your heart says.

sure its good to exposed evil everywhere but the word talking the heart

i love you but your wrong you asking the impossible

If the Word says to expose evil, and you say "that's good, but", how can that Word speak to your heart?

I'm glad you love me, even though you're telling me I'm wrong.

I'm not asking the impossible, I'm sharing a verse in the Bible and my understanding of how it speaks to my heart.

And yet I am wrong?

Do what you want. It's a free country. I will continue to endeavor to expose evil, because that's how the Word works on my heart. I'll continue doing that even if people tell me I'm wrong.

the courts can prove some things

but the heart can prove anything or unproved

love Roy

One of the problems with cults like TWI is that the Word should dictate constraint, love, common Christian brotherhood and treating other Christians as the Word tell us as opposed to how the world treats you. Yet because of the evil within them, it does not.

What's funny is how quickly they change under threat of the laws that govern them in our country. You should be able to say to the BOD of TWI "chapter and verse". But to even get them to respond and act Christian in any fashion, you have to say to them "Court location, jurisdiction and docket number". Outside of threat of legal ramifications, they continue to act with no restraint to the evil they imagine and perform.

And yet one day will come when it is no longer man's day of judgement and they will no longer be able to act with unrestrained evil in their hearts and lies upon their lips but will answer to Him who is True.

[Ham]

I think we've been in this battle one lifetime after another..

to the sowers, da way.. etc. etc..

I'll take off my mask, if you'll take off yours..

[year2027]

God first

hi chockfull

I see one thing you see a different thing

no problem here because I love and you love me

there are just small matters

I love you

love Roy

[Broken Arrow]

Doesn't "prove all things" simply mean to test things? That's what it says in the NIV anyway. When I say "hold on to the good", I mean to not be bitter. We all know bitterness will suck the life right out of you. While it may feel like we're actually hurting the person who hurt us, the reality is we continue to be their victim as long as we remain in a state of bitterness. However, pointing out abuse and naming it for what it is is not being bitter, it's being honest. Reading posts here on GSC has helped me to put words and definition to my abuse and to bring it more into focus. When I'm able to do that, I'm better able to heal. When I hear, "just get over it", I hear "deny it, pretend it didn't hurt". That's like having a broken leg and trying to live the rest of one's life without getting the bone set.

[Ham]

Some things aren't worth proving..

especially things proven a thousand times over..

no matter what "new angle" one might come up with, it is still impossible to trisect an arbitrary angle using only a compass and straight-edge..

[Ham]

I supppose I should look where I'm posting..

Edited July 20, 2009 by Ham

[chockfull]

Sheesh. I didn't post that originally to be the "be all" interpretation of that verse. It's just another way to look at it and one that I've reflected upon. Somtimes when people get all lathered up on one way of looking at a verse, the antidote is right in the vicinity....

[Bramble]

As far as I'm concerned, the TWI doctrine on 'bitterness' goes hand in hand with the 'just get over it' view on forgiveness.

In TWI if some leader did you evil and you were upset about it and didn't get over it right away as if it never happened, then YOU were more out to lunch than the one who did the evil.

Very convenient doctrine for abusers. Gives them all the breaks and puts all the hard work and change on the victim. Your emotions are inconvenient to the movement of the Word, get over it, God wants you to.

I say, remember what they did and don't tell them it is all okay, which is what they want--all okay and they haven't changed a bit.

[Ham]

Sheesh. I didn't post that originally to be the "be all" interpretation of that verse. It's just another way to look at it and one that I've reflected upon. Somtimes when people get all lathered up on one way of looking at a verse, the antidote is right in the vicinity....

A rubber mallet?