I dont understand the jubilation at a free Bible teaching
Is that something new, remarkable and revolutionary somewhere?
I can walk into just about any church in the world or turn on the TV in just about any city or poke around the internet and hear bible teachings for free anytime of the day or night.
If you like them ---fine--but its not like they are doing anything new, or that they shouldnt be doing anyway. Is it?
The weird part was that they were ever charging in the first place
I dont understand the jubilation at a free Bible teaching
Is that something new, remarkable and revolutionary somewhere?
I can walk into just about any church in the world or turn on the TV in just about any city or poke around the internet and hear bible teachings for free anytime of the day or night.
If you like them ---fine--but its not like they are doing anything new, or that they shouldnt be doing anyway. Is it?
The weird part was that they were ever charging in the first place
I don't know that S&TIF ever charged. But when I took PFAL about the time that Abraham Lincoln was President I paid a donation/registration fee or whatever it was called. You had to pay to take "da class". and then to listen again you had to wait until enough people for a new class were available in your area. Here you just log onto the internet and presto!!! You can listen anytime on your puter.
I dont understand the jubilation at a free Bible teaching
Is that something new, remarkable and revolutionary somewhere?
I can walk into just about any church in the world or turn on the TV in just about any city or poke around the internet and hear bible teachings for free anytime of the day or night.
If you like them ---fine--but its not like they are doing anything new, or that they shouldnt be doing anyway. Is it?
The weird part was that they were ever charging in the first place
"I can walk into just about any church in the world " Oh yeah? I hear "invite GEEEsus into your heart" for how to get born again. FALSE The truth is Confess him as lord and believe in your innermost being that God raised him from the dead!! How many tv shows teach the truth about speaking in tongues? Oh, and which Gee sus are they talking about? Howcome it is NEVER Jesus Christ??? There is a lot of crap in churches and especially on "TV" posing as Bible teaching. Counterfeit!!!
"I can walk into just about any church in the world " Oh yeah? I hear "invite GEEEsus into your heart" for how to get born again. FALSE The truth is Confess him as lord and believe in your innermost being that God raised him from the dead!! How many tv shows teach the truth about speaking in tongues? Oh, and which Gee sus are they talking about? Howcome it is NEVER Jesus Christ??? There is a lot of crap in churches and especially on "TV" posing as Bible teaching. Counterfeit!!!
there is NO proof of which "god" or "jesus" is "right" or "wrong" but mockery of others IS wrong according to ANY interpretation of the bible.
"I can walk into just about any church in the world " Oh yeah? I hear "invite GEEEsus into your heart" for how to get born again. FALSE The truth is Confess him as lord and believe in your innermost being that God raised him from the dead!! How many tv shows teach the truth about speaking in tongues? Oh, and which Gee sus are they talking about? Howcome it is NEVER Jesus Christ??? There is a lot of crap in churches and especially on "TV" posing as Bible teaching. Counterfeit!!!
And you know this because you've been in a variety of churches? Or is it because you've been told that's what they teach. You sound like a replay of Martinale.
there is NO proof of which "god" or "jesus" is "right" or "wrong" but mockery of others IS wrong according to ANY interpretation of the bible.
That was my flesh. I'll apologize for what you accuse me of "mocking others" (well paid ministers who are supposed to be leading people to Christ on tv).
Now can we get to the real issue? what does the Word of God say about how to get born again? What does the word of God say about speaking in tongues? I am not perfect. We need to dwell and focus on what the Word of God says and not on what I am doing that is wrong. It is not about me. I am nothing. I am not a minister. I am not paid money for teaching anything. It is about the Word of God. Please finish and get done with all my imperfections and when you are done with all my wrongs then please do not neglect to address what the Word of God says. Take all the time you need to address my wrongs but in the end please address what the Word of God says.
People really believe that is how you get born again (inviting Jesus into your heart). That is very sad especially when the truth of Romans 10 nine is available. Who is teaching the truth of God's Word??? You can talk about me and my imperfections all you want but that will not get anyone born again. Are you here just to attack people? Who is here to say what the Word of God says???
Again I ask, who is here to say what the Word of God says?? This post is about truth vs tradition on youtube.com. that is the spirit of truth fellowship international. I don't think "Martindale" has anything to do with it and neither does the current way international.
"I can walk into just about any church in the world " Oh yeah? I hear "invite GEEEsus into your heart"
I take it that you dont go out to many churches. Being that my profession involves working in churches I go to about 50 or more a year and I havent heard that phrase at any of them in about 18 years-- and when I did hear it last, back in 1991, it that was a grand total of exactly once.
I dont know where you are going to hear these things but it is not commonplace at all, and certainly not nearly as common as youd lead others to believe.
Whats with all the church hate anyway ?
Is John 13:35 not in your bible? did someone rip it out or twist it around somehow
I don't know that S&TIF ever charged.
I knew that they used to because they sent me their mailers (advertisements) for abunch of years--after checking their site--well yup. lookee, lookee they still do
"I can walk into just about any church in the world " Oh yeah? I hear "invite GEEEsus into your heart" for how to get born again. FALSE The truth is Confess him as lord and believe in your innermost being that God raised him from the dead!! How many tv shows teach the truth about speaking in tongues? Oh, and which Gee sus are they talking about? Howcome it is NEVER Jesus Christ??? There is a lot of crap in churches and especially on "TV" posing as Bible teaching. Counterfeit!!!
Actually I think there is a step that churches teach that you may have missed. . . . that coming to Jesus moment called repentance. Part of being born again.
I think they use both Jesus and Jesus Christ in church. . . . . since it is a personal relationship with the Lord. . . the name Jesus is spoken with reverence and held in honor.
Not all churches are good, but there are many wonderful churches who preach the gospel. You should go to one sometime. . . might just surprise you.
that was a backhanded apology so not accepted and also the Word of God according to the bible is jesus not the bible.
Now I know why people never want to talk religion or politics. Baseball seems to be a much safer subject here on this website. My butt is sore from all the spanking I've received here. Yeah John 13:34. right!
Now I know why people never want to talk religion or politics. Baseball seems to be a much safer subject here on this website. My butt is sore from all the spanking I've received here. Yeah John 13:34. right!
Now I know why Paul separated and went to the school of Tyranus. I will try to never bring up the Word of God again on this website. I'll only talk about baseball. Can you get eternal life from following MLB?
Yep. It's a hard life, confronting the world with da "word" and all.. you don't seem to be making much progress here.
if you're tired and all.. maybe you need to get about ten to twelve followers, promise them an "excellent adventure", "professional" training in da word.. lots of sunshine, some work to do.. a "future(?)" in the organization if they are committed enough..
and after nine months, send them out to confront the world with da "word" for you..
Over the years the structure of CES has changed, but initially it was a lot like TWI, which involved paying for tapes/CDs and video. When they instituted the "partnership" program, audio teachings and the bimonthly newsletter came along with the partnership. Pretty much everything was sent out first class mail. Even mass mailings were sent straight first class, which is very costly. Now that the Sower's print version is printed on slick paper and is in full color, it costs a lot more money to produce. There is a certain economies of scale, but that break point is in the hundreds.
I had always advocated that the teachings and what became the sower should be freely available, and the easiest and cheapest way to distribute was in electronic format. Continue to sell the books and whatever on media (if that's the preferred delivery method by the buyer), but pass those costs on to those buyers.
I argued that once you have the production equipment bought and paid for, there is only the cost of maintenance or replacement. If you have the cost of media, duplication, packaging, postage, and mailing materials on top of that, it's hard to control costs. Particularly since they weren't taking advantage of bulk rates. Electronic media has none of those costs past the cost and maintenance of the production equipment. In my mind, it was a no-brainer to move to electronic distribution, and advocated it as early as 2002.
Once they were able to move past the TWI model of materials distribution (which revolves around the notion that charging people for teachings makes them more receptive), and found they had the ability to post videos and audio on free sites, only an idiot wouldn't take advantage of that.
But they really had to get past the money = appreciation dynamic. The Biblical Unitarian site, which was mine, showed them that making everything freely available would generate more interest. Jeff was really the one who caught on and asked me to set up the TorT site. Both of the sites are dated (visually), and I wouldn't be using the format at all, but the reasons behind that are based on antiquated notions about how search engine optimization works.
I think that STF has it wrong about church and that is because it still clings to too many things TWI. TWI followed a "tree" structure, while STF is basically a weed patch. There is no central core of corporate worship from which small groups emerge. STF produces teachings and independent groups affiliate.
So to answer your question, I'm not particularly jubilant. They could have been doing this years ago, and they haven't even made a scratch in uncovering their potential (assuming that God wants them to be more visible).
I think that STF has it wrong about church and that is because it still clings to too many things TWI. TWI followed a "tree" structure, while STF is basically a weed patch.
And then, of course, there's always that distinct possibility that all religions, no matter the brand, are Bullchit (a VERY distinct possibility if you ask me). And all your pious, belligerent pontificating is for nought anyway.
Just why is it that The Bible MUST be the fount of all Truth anyway? What evidence do we have that shows Judeo-Christianity to have any more credibility than any other garden-variety superstition?
One thing the Bible IS good for, I'd admit, is promoting blind bigotry and prejudice - as evidenced by your posts. Even that gets boring after a short while though...
Tag, I think that it is great that you area excited about finding teachings on line. It seems to be something that communicates well for you. I think however that it would be cool if you could consider that God is able to work in a variety of mediums, through different people of different belief systems within whatever the parameters that they will allow him.
The supposed superior understanding of the scriptures, trinity dead alive now etc did not prevent twi leaders from being incredibly cruel and evil. Likewise, I have seen that an absence of heavy duty scriptural study does not prevent people from being energized vital christians involved in service to God. :)
That was my flesh. I'll apologize for what you accuse me of "mocking others" (well paid ministers who are supposed to be leading people to Christ on tv).
Now can we get to the real issue? what does the Word of God say about how to get born again? What does the word of God say about speaking in tongues? I am not perfect. We need to dwell and focus on what the Word of God says and not on what I am doing that is wrong. It is not about me. I am nothing. I am not a minister. I am not paid money for teaching anything. It is about the Word of God. Please finish and get done with all my imperfections and when you are done with all my wrongs then please do not neglect to address what the Word of God says. Take all the time you need to address my wrongs but in the end please address what the Word of God says.
People really believe that is how you get born again (inviting Jesus into your heart). That is very sad especially when the truth of Romans 10 nine is available. Who is teaching the truth of God's Word??? You can talk about me and my imperfections all you want but that will not get anyone born again. Are you here just to attack people? Who is here to say what the Word of God says???
Again I ask, who is here to say what the Word of God says?? This post is about truth vs tradition on youtube.com. that is the spirit of truth fellowship international. I don't think "Martindale" has anything to do with it and neither does the current way international.
i do not subscribe to any particular set of beliefs but the fact that you do and are using those beliefs as the standard by which you judge others is why i use your beliefs with which to discuss things with you and i've been thinking about this "that was my flesh" and "please finish and get done with all my imperfections" bs you're trying to use to wiggle out of being a regular jackaninny towards those you consider "wrong" and less than you and your oh so illuminated self. just who do you think you are to tout the bible and Jesus Christ and then turn around and act just like those both the bible and your selfsame Jesus Christ rebuked vehemently and say "oh that was my flesh"? doesn't your bible say that you are to be a "living witness" and that by "YOUR" fruit "YOU" will be known?
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mstar1
Honestly no-they are not for me.
I dont understand the jubilation at a free Bible teaching
Is that something new, remarkable and revolutionary somewhere?
I can walk into just about any church in the world or turn on the TV in just about any city or poke around the internet and hear bible teachings for free anytime of the day or night.
If you like them ---fine--but its not like they are doing anything new, or that they shouldnt be doing anyway. Is it?
The weird part was that they were ever charging in the first place
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tagalong
I don't know that S&TIF ever charged. But when I took PFAL about the time that Abraham Lincoln was President I paid a donation/registration fee or whatever it was called. You had to pay to take "da class". and then to listen again you had to wait until enough people for a new class were available in your area. Here you just log onto the internet and presto!!! You can listen anytime on your puter.
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tagalong
"I can walk into just about any church in the world " Oh yeah? I hear "invite GEEEsus into your heart" for how to get born again. FALSE The truth is Confess him as lord and believe in your innermost being that God raised him from the dead!! How many tv shows teach the truth about speaking in tongues? Oh, and which Gee sus are they talking about? Howcome it is NEVER Jesus Christ??? There is a lot of crap in churches and especially on "TV" posing as Bible teaching. Counterfeit!!!
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brainfixed
there is NO proof of which "god" or "jesus" is "right" or "wrong" but mockery of others IS wrong according to ANY interpretation of the bible.
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Oakspear
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tagalong
That was my flesh. I'll apologize for what you accuse me of "mocking others" (well paid ministers who are supposed to be leading people to Christ on tv).
Now can we get to the real issue? what does the Word of God say about how to get born again? What does the word of God say about speaking in tongues? I am not perfect. We need to dwell and focus on what the Word of God says and not on what I am doing that is wrong. It is not about me. I am nothing. I am not a minister. I am not paid money for teaching anything. It is about the Word of God. Please finish and get done with all my imperfections and when you are done with all my wrongs then please do not neglect to address what the Word of God says. Take all the time you need to address my wrongs but in the end please address what the Word of God says.
People really believe that is how you get born again (inviting Jesus into your heart). That is very sad especially when the truth of Romans 10 nine is available. Who is teaching the truth of God's Word??? You can talk about me and my imperfections all you want but that will not get anyone born again. Are you here just to attack people? Who is here to say what the Word of God says???
Again I ask, who is here to say what the Word of God says?? This post is about truth vs tradition on youtube.com. that is the spirit of truth fellowship international. I don't think "Martindale" has anything to do with it and neither does the current way international.
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brainfixed
that was a backhanded apology so not accepted and also the Word of God according to the bible is jesus not the bible.
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Ham
Technically, what's the difference?
It just seems to me, to do one, is to do the other.. to do the other, is to do the one..
according to loys rabid rants, there was quite a difference.. but I think the difference is in semantics..
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mstar1
I take it that you dont go out to many churches. Being that my profession involves working in churches I go to about 50 or more a year and I havent heard that phrase at any of them in about 18 years-- and when I did hear it last, back in 1991, it that was a grand total of exactly once.
I dont know where you are going to hear these things but it is not commonplace at all, and certainly not nearly as common as youd lead others to believe.
Whats with all the church hate anyway ?
Is John 13:35 not in your bible? did someone rip it out or twist it around somehow
I knew that they used to because they sent me their mailers (advertisements) for abunch of years--after checking their site--well yup. lookee, lookee they still do
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geisha779
Actually I think there is a step that churches teach that you may have missed. . . . that coming to Jesus moment called repentance. Part of being born again.
I think they use both Jesus and Jesus Christ in church. . . . . since it is a personal relationship with the Lord. . . the name Jesus is spoken with reverence and held in honor.
Not all churches are good, but there are many wonderful churches who preach the gospel. You should go to one sometime. . . might just surprise you.
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tagalong
Now I know why people never want to talk religion or politics. Baseball seems to be a much safer subject here on this website. My butt is sore from all the spanking I've received here. Yeah John 13:34. right!
Now I know why Paul separated and went to the school of Tyranus. I will try to never bring up the Word of God again on this website. I'll only talk about baseball. Can you get eternal life from following MLB?
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Ham
yep. Life is always "easier" when everybody simply agrees with you..
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Ham
Yep. It's a hard life, confronting the world with da "word" and all.. you don't seem to be making much progress here.
if you're tired and all.. maybe you need to get about ten to twelve followers, promise them an "excellent adventure", "professional" training in da word.. lots of sunshine, some work to do.. a "future(?)" in the organization if they are committed enough..
and after nine months, send them out to confront the world with da "word" for you..
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Ham
Proverbs 24:10 is appropriate here..
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Ham
yep.. hard job, trying to herd "rebellious" "sheep" who've been fleeced and or possibly raped back to the "fold"..
maybe you need better "feed".. "truth or tradition" stuff looks pretty rancid..
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Ham
I dunno.. maybe you need another "gig"..
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Tzaia
Over the years the structure of CES has changed, but initially it was a lot like TWI, which involved paying for tapes/CDs and video. When they instituted the "partnership" program, audio teachings and the bimonthly newsletter came along with the partnership. Pretty much everything was sent out first class mail. Even mass mailings were sent straight first class, which is very costly. Now that the Sower's print version is printed on slick paper and is in full color, it costs a lot more money to produce. There is a certain economies of scale, but that break point is in the hundreds.
I had always advocated that the teachings and what became the sower should be freely available, and the easiest and cheapest way to distribute was in electronic format. Continue to sell the books and whatever on media (if that's the preferred delivery method by the buyer), but pass those costs on to those buyers.
I argued that once you have the production equipment bought and paid for, there is only the cost of maintenance or replacement. If you have the cost of media, duplication, packaging, postage, and mailing materials on top of that, it's hard to control costs. Particularly since they weren't taking advantage of bulk rates. Electronic media has none of those costs past the cost and maintenance of the production equipment. In my mind, it was a no-brainer to move to electronic distribution, and advocated it as early as 2002.
Once they were able to move past the TWI model of materials distribution (which revolves around the notion that charging people for teachings makes them more receptive), and found they had the ability to post videos and audio on free sites, only an idiot wouldn't take advantage of that.
But they really had to get past the money = appreciation dynamic. The Biblical Unitarian site, which was mine, showed them that making everything freely available would generate more interest. Jeff was really the one who caught on and asked me to set up the TorT site. Both of the sites are dated (visually), and I wouldn't be using the format at all, but the reasons behind that are based on antiquated notions about how search engine optimization works.
I think that STF has it wrong about church and that is because it still clings to too many things TWI. TWI followed a "tree" structure, while STF is basically a weed patch. There is no central core of corporate worship from which small groups emerge. STF produces teachings and independent groups affiliate.
So to answer your question, I'm not particularly jubilant. They could have been doing this years ago, and they haven't even made a scratch in uncovering their potential (assuming that God wants them to be more visible).
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Ham
*Gardeners.. to your implements..*
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George Aar
And then, of course, there's always that distinct possibility that all religions, no matter the brand, are Bullchit (a VERY distinct possibility if you ask me). And all your pious, belligerent pontificating is for nought anyway.
Just why is it that The Bible MUST be the fount of all Truth anyway? What evidence do we have that shows Judeo-Christianity to have any more credibility than any other garden-variety superstition?
One thing the Bible IS good for, I'd admit, is promoting blind bigotry and prejudice - as evidenced by your posts. Even that gets boring after a short while though...
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rascal
Tag, I think that it is great that you area excited about finding teachings on line. It seems to be something that communicates well for you. I think however that it would be cool if you could consider that God is able to work in a variety of mediums, through different people of different belief systems within whatever the parameters that they will allow him.
The supposed superior understanding of the scriptures, trinity dead alive now etc did not prevent twi leaders from being incredibly cruel and evil. Likewise, I have seen that an absence of heavy duty scriptural study does not prevent people from being energized vital christians involved in service to God. :)
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brainfixed
i do not subscribe to any particular set of beliefs but the fact that you do and are using those beliefs as the standard by which you judge others is why i use your beliefs with which to discuss things with you and i've been thinking about this "that was my flesh" and "please finish and get done with all my imperfections" bs you're trying to use to wiggle out of being a regular jackaninny towards those you consider "wrong" and less than you and your oh so illuminated self. just who do you think you are to tout the bible and Jesus Christ and then turn around and act just like those both the bible and your selfsame Jesus Christ rebuked vehemently and say "oh that was my flesh"? doesn't your bible say that you are to be a "living witness" and that by "YOUR" fruit "YOU" will be known?
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