I am with mstar, at least someone has the guts to come and discuss their beliefs.
Welcome sowers grad :)
Friend, I have no doubt about your enthusiasm and the good intentions of the participants in your program...I honestly don`t..But can`t you see that is no different than most of us were 20 plus years ago...We were on fire with the word, reaching out to the world, it was our lives, our entire beings...we believed it....lived it for decades.
Thing is, we were terribly used and mistreated by the very people whom purported to be ministers of God.
You said that you didn`t want to hear any 2nd hand accounts about vp...Well there are people here whom personally were hurt by vp, by the people that he personally hand picked and trained, by his successors.
Can you bear to hear personal heart breaking accounts? Have you the courage to listen to the people that were actually there, that experienced first hand the perversions from these men and women? I have to tell you that it is usually the people whom never met or interacted with wierwille that are the most adamant and cruel in his defense.
There are podcasts on the front page that can be down loaded from interviews with the one time trunk coordinator of the us. He saw the not so public side of twi. There is one from Kristin Skedgill(sp?) about her interaction with vp she even wrote a book.
We have individual posters here, who have told their stories of drugging and rape, families who told of the seduction and destruction of young family members, people being told to report to the bus to find a naked and expecting wierwille...there are first hand accounts at messiah 7 if there isn`t enough first hand accounts here.
Can you handle the truth about the roots of the doctrine you hold to be truth? Can you honestly believe that a rotten tree can bear good fruit?
Can you courteously sit back and listen to what people have to say without threatening bodily harm? If you are here for a ....ing contest, there is no point in bothering to share with you our first hand experiences.
If you are truly interested in hearing what people have to say, in hearing our experiences, are willing to try to see us as those neighbors that are to be loved, rather than adversarial targets...I`d love to talk with you :)
This guy can spare himself years of endless wandering if he gets away now. . . . might be nice for him to someday be able to comfortably attend a church or speak to someone without assessing them for "devil spirits" or to see how "off" they are in their believing.
I don't think that is harsh. . . just truthful.
He already has an idol built. . . threatening violence to protect him.
I. . . . for one. . . . find that odd.
Wish someone had laid it out for me. My life might have been very different.
Run away. . . . run away. . . . that family is poison. . . and hey. . . I always LIKED Sarah and Kevin.
The sowers group appears to have an almost identical appearance to the old time way corps.
how is this program any different?
What kind of safeguards were put in place to protect student from teacher?
The students appeared to have to walk a rather narrow line of "ethics".. and violation of even any unwritten mandate results in the possibility of immediate expulsion, and/or termination of the program. That describes the way corps experience.. how different here?
How many times were you threatened to be sent home, or if the group didn't "muster up", that the program would be terminated?
How many students actually WERE sent away?
The "teachers" APPEAR to have the power over students like Almighty God. Their authority is final, their judgement summary. What RULES, if any, did they have to abide by?
Were you ever asked (tantamount to a command) to perform any hazardous or dangerous activity as part of the program?
Was anyone harmed by performing program activities? If so, what action was taken?
What kind of housing was provided? Was it suitable, or did one just live in a tent for nine months?
What were the classes (if any) that you participated in? If any, were they old pfal.. old ministry classes.. or cff materials.. or other offshoot materials?
Who actually subsidizes the program? i.e. who supports it? Some offshoot ministry, or does it stand on its own two feet?
Did "special teachers" from certain offshoots come in to give presentations and teachings from other groups? If so, what did they present, who were they.. where were they from?
Does being a graduate of the program give one special assignments, or privileges, over others?
As a graduate, what does one actually DO? Run a "fellowship"? Do you owe your very life to the "ministry that taught you the word"?
Will "fellowships" funnel money ("abundant sharing") to the mother group?
well.. I'll stop with these few.. I asked someone "in the know" once, and didn't get much response..
it might take a while. Don't feel rushed to answer them all at once..
This guy can spare himself years of endless wandering if he gets away now. . . . might be nice for him to someday be able to comfortably attend a church or speak to someone without assessing them for "devil spirits" or to see how "off" they are in their believing.
I don't think that is harsh. . . just truthful.
He already has an idol built. . . threatening violence to protect him.
I. . . . for one. . . . find that odd.
Wish someone had laid it out for me. My life might have been very different.
Run away. . . . run away. . . . that family is poison. . . and hey. . . I always LIKED Sarah and Kevin.
True geisha - but maybe we should make sure he's running away from his offshoot and not running away from the stories here.
S '09 - most of my questions were genuine. And yes, I would like to know if you ever saw a double standard regarding drinking and sex - or anything for that matter.
I hope if you haven't already graduated from college, that you plan on attending soon.
and while you're working on these.. here are a few more.
Exactly who is on staff there?
What kind of background do they have to perform this kind of work..
Did you at any time observe inappropriate conduct between staff and student? i.e. special favors, sexual advances, or even the appearance of these issues?
What is the level of education of the staff? Or of yourself, before entering the program?
Do you plan on furthering education?
Do you think the sowers "training" all you need?
How do you fulfil "going forth as leaders and workers".. where do you actually go? Are graduates given staff assignments?
and one BIG question.. were you required to sign a "hold harmless" agreement? i.e., agree that if you were harmed by participating in program activities, that you relinquished your legal options for restitution?
True geisha - but maybe we should make sure he's running away from his offshoot and not running away from the stories here.
S09 - most of my questions were genuine. And yes, I would like to know if you ever saw a double standard regarding drinking and sex - or anything for that matter.
I hope if you haven't already graduated from college, that you plan on attending soon.
Yes, I agree. . . . and it did take some guts to come and offer to answer questions and discuss the program. . . albeit with caveats. I am all ears and would love to hear the answers. . . . . I am sure he will discuss these things. . . he freely made the offer. So, if I forgot. . . Welcome SG09!
He now has a few questions to pour through. :)
The stories here ARE difficult to hear and process. . . some so heartbreaking they have to be taken in small doses. . . Gramps does not have a pretty legacy.
Sowers grad...I read the part in your post about your willingness to answer questions. Well...are you also interested in ASKING questions?...Are you here to learn?...or are you here to teach?
Are you interested in learning HOW and WHY the biblical doctrine of Wierwille was/is wrong?
When you claim that the young Wierwille is a "great man of God", what do you base this on?...being a nice guy? having a charismatic personality? the "things" that he teaches? What's your criteria?
on sowers property, is there a shrine, or monument dedicated to the memory of gramps, vp the first?
Did they address the known facts that gramps was an alcoholic, and serial sex fiend?
along with plagiarism.. that he stole his way into the "ministry", from Stiles, Bullinger, Leonard, and many others?
they called gramps, a abusing drambuie soakedthieving sex fiend, "a great man of god" as well.. that when he wasn't otherwise pillaging God's people, he was a great manogawd..
I am left to assume that these are the opinions, and even "teachings" of the "elders" of your "church".. are my assumptions correct?
Don't take this as questions asked in seething rage or something.. I'm really quite calm, and asking nicely here..
What qualifications does the board have to even RECOGNIZE a "man of God" if they even ever saw one?
vicster I, even with flagrant violation of biblical and moral standards, was regarded by them as a great "man of god"..
and they promote another one, (potentially) like victer the first..
they've stroked his ego since day one..
probably a "nice guy".. as long as one STAYS on his "good side"..
which brings me to another question:
Were you free to ask/discuss anything in the program.. including details about the rotten underbelly of vic I and twi? Or would such "rebellion" be grounds for immediate dismissal?
Feel free to forward these questions to the "board" if you wish.
Howdy! You sound young, enthusiastic.... and a lot like I was 35 years ago. Good to see you. People here are all over the map on their beliefs now you'll see. The only thing we have in common is TWI and that at one time we all thought pretty much alike theologically. My how time changes things. So... there's no Way Corps any longer?
I'll add my welcome to the recent SOWERS grad...welcome!
You offered to answer questions. Boy, do the posters on GSC have a good supply of those! :)
Some of the questions asked are good; some of them read like a script for an interrogation. I only have one: Is the intention of the SOWERS group to build on what was good about VP's (the grandfather) organization (specifically, The Way Corps, since that's what SOWERS seems to be modeled after), and do its leaders acknowledge what was not good about it, and are they endeavoring to correct those things?
I'd suggest that you answer the questions you feel qualified and want to answer. You came here volunnarily. You're not obligated to defend or speak for the entire SOWERS organization.
As Sudo says, our beliefs are all over the board. Some people (in the minority here, by far) still hold to all they were taught in PFAL and/or The Way Corps. The rest of us hold beliefs ranging from "similar to what The Way Int'l taught" to believing "a lot of it was BS but some of it was sound" to believing "none of it was true or worthwhile." There are evangelical Christians here, Mormons, Catholics, other Christians, Jews, Pagans, Wiccans, agnostics, and atheists (and probably more categories I don't know about), so be prepared to be disagreed with on a variety of fronts. :D
If you're up to it, slip on your asbestos suit and have at it. If you want to debate doctrine, it would be a good idea to take that to the Doctrinal Forum rather than here. And it would be a great idea to leave the hints/threats of physical fighting on the playground where they belong.
If you see my old pal Fred Sedahl (I knew him when I worked in Way Publications and he was doing PR for twi), please tell him I said hello and that I hope he's doing well!
Some of the questions asked are good; some of them read like a script for an interrogation.
Sorry if it feels like that..
actually, I started out with a few discrete questions to the "source". When they were not answered, the questions just kinda backed up, like a log jam or something..
Sowers grad.. maybe you could assemble these and present them to those who really ought to be answering these questions. I don't know if you are qualified to answer them as it is..
I hope that you stand is fruitfull. If it is I expect that it may not be going down exactly as you expect, but what the heck, neither of us is really in charge of results because we are just people.....huh.
I've really learned to enjoy posting and some of the ways that our words can be fully considered over time and responded to. But I make no claim to fully comprehend your words but I do expect to have a little fun responding.
Here goes...
Howdy everyone! As my screen name says I am indeed a a graduate of sowers class 08-09. I will reveal my name and age in due time and for those who have followed the website closely you will probably figger out which sower i am soon enough. Im sure yall all have a bazillion questions to ask me. I want to say from the start, I am NOT here to bash anyone. I know the feelings a d opinions that are presented on this website torwards the WAY dr. weirwillie, the sowers program, and the word in general. They are not favorable. You are entitled to taht obviously. I do not mind people disaggreeing with me however, i ask you to be polite and respectful. If you wish to accuse anyone of anything, i ask that you do so only if you WERE ACTUALLY THERE AND EXPERIENCED IT FIRSTHAND! hereay from a buddy who may or may not be gossiping is not credible. It dont fly in court and it dont fly with me.
I am glad that you are being (for the most part, but not all the way) forthright as to who you are and what your intentions are.
I find your initial paragraph to be defensive however, and in the course of open an free conversation you will find that such an aggressive defense right from the start tends to....
#1 Become a form of self fulfilling prophecy.
and
#2 Actually reveals weakness
and
#3 That many of us Greasespotters that do our best hold to the scriptures are (get ready) actually (This may blow your mind) quite fond of the Greasespotters who choose not to hold to the scriptures!
and
#4 Find your views of credibilty to be trite and a little simplistic. Not to mention annoying since many of us have been around and around on this well worn Greasespot path.
I dont feel like typing a whole lot right now, but i will take all your questions over the course of the next few days, weeks, months etc.
I am genuinely interested in seeing how long you stick around and where the fellowship takes you.
However there is one topic i want to set yall straight on from the start. Victor weirwille.
the grandson. V2p2 or whatever yall call him.
he is agreat man of God, and a great person in general. He is one of the most loving, caring, kindest people I have ever met. I heard him yell only once or twice in ten months, and that as because he needed to get someone's attention. I am damn proud to consider him a friend. When it comes to teh word he knows his stuff and tries his best to live a Godly lifestyle. BUT! he does not shove it down anyones throat, he doesnt think he is the end all be all authority on all things God, he is very humble, respectful, and someone who i will aggressively defend. I am not a violent person, however, if you want to make any personal attacks against him, you had best not let me know your true identity. I am willing to fight over comments made about him.Trust me, you really dont want a ....ed off redneck knockin' at your door. Somje people in the sowers program will claim they have seen me me angry. Well, they havent. My intentions here are not to fight though, so lets keep everything respectful and decent.
I respect your willingness to fight for someone you feel is a friend.
I do not know V2P2 nor had I ever even heard of him before I came to the Greasespot, but when I do manage to form an opinion that I then post I won't be concerned with you at all.
BRAGGING, INTIMIDATION, and BULLYING, and all the while hiding behind your anonymity.... yeah...I'm real freakin scared.(sarcasm)
The floor is open for discussion.
Oh goody, is it just me or are you presuming to think that what you do want to happen or don't want to happen will have any effect. Don't hold your breath.....
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
God Bless.
Something which in my opinion and in this circumstance seems about 180 degrees from anything that I can think of out of either the Lord's mouth or Paul's. Good start(sarcasm) Mr brawler!
he is agreat man of God, and a great person in general. He is one of the most loving, caring, kindest people I have ever met. I heard him yell only once or twice in ten months, and that as because he needed to get someone's attention. I am damn proud to consider him a friend. When it comes to teh word he knows his stuff and tries his best to live a Godly lifestyle. BUT! he does not shove it down anyones throat, he doesnt think he is the end all be all authority on all things God, he is very humble, respectful, and someone who i will aggressively defend. I am not a violent person, however, if you want to make any personal attacks against him, you had best not let me know your true identity. I am willing to fight over comments made about him.Trust me, you really dont want a ....ed off redneck knockin' at your door. Some people in the sowers program will claim they have seen me me angry. Well, they havent. My intentions here are not to fight though, so lets keep everything respectful and decent.
The floor is open for discussion.
Awesome! A young redneck Bible student with a chip on his shoulder! It sounds like your year of training really helped you obtain the balance, longsuffering, and humility of the fruit of the spirit ;)
However I will say that fighting skills and anger have very little to do with one another, so you might want to tone it down there a little, Joe Dirt.
You know, if V2P2 wants to make himself a niche in Bible study while working on a farm like his grandpa, I guess that's cool. There seems to be a small market for it. And the org his grandpa founded now has someone who walks around with the nose in the air as opposed to working on a farm, so he couldn't do worse without some serious effort.
Nice to meet you. Thx for stopping by. Have a greasespot doughnut.
Is "familia" still considered a staple of the believer's diet?
:P
Wait, as in,"don't mess wit la familia!?"
Too funny.
Personally I'll generally settle for not kicking the wounded. But I guess some "familia" don't really act like saints no matter what they think of themselves!
I know the feelings a d opinions that are presented on this website torwards the WAY dr. weirwillie, the sowers program, and the word in general. They are not favorable.
The "Word" in general? Where do you get that GSers don't regard "The Word" favorably? There's probably about a half dozen at most here who are not Christians of some sort and still hold the bible dear, including most who have posted on this thread. I find your generalization of them insulting.
I am done talking about him. He will probably see these postes sooner or later and I am sure he would not feel comfortable with us talking about him.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Thinking about this stuff for a few days now...Sowers?.... Let me see if I got this straight...The grandson of the grand pubah (who just happens to have the same name) starts a "thing" that closely r
Shellon
Wow I'm heavily struck, here, with how unpredictable can be the human condition and the oft strong desire to be right, to be sure to get the last word in, to be sure to one-up another. Not exactly t
mstar1
The odd thing is that if what they have is so unbelievably wonderful as they tell you, you would think that they would want to share it with the rest of the world and correct our misperceptions instea
cheranne
How many grads are there and how old are they? I am glad your here for insight so soon.
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rascal
I am with mstar, at least someone has the guts to come and discuss their beliefs.
Welcome sowers grad :)
Friend, I have no doubt about your enthusiasm and the good intentions of the participants in your program...I honestly don`t..But can`t you see that is no different than most of us were 20 plus years ago...We were on fire with the word, reaching out to the world, it was our lives, our entire beings...we believed it....lived it for decades.
Thing is, we were terribly used and mistreated by the very people whom purported to be ministers of God.
You said that you didn`t want to hear any 2nd hand accounts about vp...Well there are people here whom personally were hurt by vp, by the people that he personally hand picked and trained, by his successors.
Can you bear to hear personal heart breaking accounts? Have you the courage to listen to the people that were actually there, that experienced first hand the perversions from these men and women? I have to tell you that it is usually the people whom never met or interacted with wierwille that are the most adamant and cruel in his defense.
There are podcasts on the front page that can be down loaded from interviews with the one time trunk coordinator of the us. He saw the not so public side of twi. There is one from Kristin Skedgill(sp?) about her interaction with vp she even wrote a book.
We have individual posters here, who have told their stories of drugging and rape, families who told of the seduction and destruction of young family members, people being told to report to the bus to find a naked and expecting wierwille...there are first hand accounts at messiah 7 if there isn`t enough first hand accounts here.
Can you handle the truth about the roots of the doctrine you hold to be truth? Can you honestly believe that a rotten tree can bear good fruit?
Can you courteously sit back and listen to what people have to say without threatening bodily harm? If you are here for a ....ing contest, there is no point in bothering to share with you our first hand experiences.
If you are truly interested in hearing what people have to say, in hearing our experiences, are willing to try to see us as those neighbors that are to be loved, rather than adversarial targets...I`d love to talk with you :)
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geisha779
Wolves wear sheep's clothing. . . . why sugar coat it?
This guy can spare himself years of endless wandering if he gets away now. . . . might be nice for him to someday be able to comfortably attend a church or speak to someone without assessing them for "devil spirits" or to see how "off" they are in their believing.
I don't think that is harsh. . . just truthful.
He already has an idol built. . . threatening violence to protect him.
I. . . . for one. . . . find that odd.
Wish someone had laid it out for me. My life might have been very different.
Run away. . . . run away. . . . that family is poison. . . and hey. . . I always LIKED Sarah and Kevin.
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Ham
Welcome to the Cafe.
I have a few questions..
The sowers group appears to have an almost identical appearance to the old time way corps.
how is this program any different?
What kind of safeguards were put in place to protect student from teacher?
The students appeared to have to walk a rather narrow line of "ethics".. and violation of even any unwritten mandate results in the possibility of immediate expulsion, and/or termination of the program. That describes the way corps experience.. how different here?
How many times were you threatened to be sent home, or if the group didn't "muster up", that the program would be terminated?
How many students actually WERE sent away?
The "teachers" APPEAR to have the power over students like Almighty God. Their authority is final, their judgement summary. What RULES, if any, did they have to abide by?
Were you ever asked (tantamount to a command) to perform any hazardous or dangerous activity as part of the program?
Was anyone harmed by performing program activities? If so, what action was taken?
What kind of housing was provided? Was it suitable, or did one just live in a tent for nine months?
What were the classes (if any) that you participated in? If any, were they old pfal.. old ministry classes.. or cff materials.. or other offshoot materials?
Who actually subsidizes the program? i.e. who supports it? Some offshoot ministry, or does it stand on its own two feet?
Did "special teachers" from certain offshoots come in to give presentations and teachings from other groups? If so, what did they present, who were they.. where were they from?
Does being a graduate of the program give one special assignments, or privileges, over others?
As a graduate, what does one actually DO? Run a "fellowship"? Do you owe your very life to the "ministry that taught you the word"?
Will "fellowships" funnel money ("abundant sharing") to the mother group?
well.. I'll stop with these few.. I asked someone "in the know" once, and didn't get much response..
it might take a while. Don't feel rushed to answer them all at once..
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doojable
True geisha - but maybe we should make sure he's running away from his offshoot and not running away from the stories here.
S '09 - most of my questions were genuine. And yes, I would like to know if you ever saw a double standard regarding drinking and sex - or anything for that matter.
I hope if you haven't already graduated from college, that you plan on attending soon.
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Ham
and while you're working on these.. here are a few more.
Exactly who is on staff there?
What kind of background do they have to perform this kind of work..
Did you at any time observe inappropriate conduct between staff and student? i.e. special favors, sexual advances, or even the appearance of these issues?
What is the level of education of the staff? Or of yourself, before entering the program?
Do you plan on furthering education?
Do you think the sowers "training" all you need?
How do you fulfil "going forth as leaders and workers".. where do you actually go? Are graduates given staff assignments?
and one BIG question.. were you required to sign a "hold harmless" agreement? i.e., agree that if you were harmed by participating in program activities, that you relinquished your legal options for restitution?
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geisha779
Yes, I agree. . . . and it did take some guts to come and offer to answer questions and discuss the program. . . albeit with caveats. I am all ears and would love to hear the answers. . . . . I am sure he will discuss these things. . . he freely made the offer. So, if I forgot. . . Welcome SG09!
He now has a few questions to pour through. :)
The stories here ARE difficult to hear and process. . . some so heartbreaking they have to be taken in small doses. . . Gramps does not have a pretty legacy.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Sowers grad...I read the part in your post about your willingness to answer questions. Well...are you also interested in ASKING questions?...Are you here to learn?...or are you here to teach?
Are you interested in learning HOW and WHY the biblical doctrine of Wierwille was/is wrong?
When you claim that the young Wierwille is a "great man of God", what do you base this on?...being a nice guy? having a charismatic personality? the "things" that he teaches? What's your criteria?
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Ham
another question..
on sowers property, is there a shrine, or monument dedicated to the memory of gramps, vp the first?
Did they address the known facts that gramps was an alcoholic, and serial sex fiend?
along with plagiarism.. that he stole his way into the "ministry", from Stiles, Bullinger, Leonard, and many others?
they called gramps, a abusing drambuie soakedthieving sex fiend, "a great man of god" as well.. that when he wasn't otherwise pillaging God's people, he was a great manogawd..
I am left to assume that these are the opinions, and even "teachings" of the "elders" of your "church".. are my assumptions correct?
Don't take this as questions asked in seething rage or something.. I'm really quite calm, and asking nicely here..
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Ham
which brings me to think..
What qualifications does the board have to even RECOGNIZE a "man of God" if they even ever saw one?
vicster I, even with flagrant violation of biblical and moral standards, was regarded by them as a great "man of god"..
and they promote another one, (potentially) like victer the first..
they've stroked his ego since day one..
probably a "nice guy".. as long as one STAYS on his "good side"..
which brings me to another question:
Were you free to ask/discuss anything in the program.. including details about the rotten underbelly of vic I and twi? Or would such "rebellion" be grounds for immediate dismissal?
Feel free to forward these questions to the "board" if you wish.
:)
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Sudo
S.O.W.E.R.S Grad 09,
Howdy! You sound young, enthusiastic.... and a lot like I was 35 years ago. Good to see you. People here are all over the map on their beliefs now you'll see. The only thing we have in common is TWI and that at one time we all thought pretty much alike theologically. My how time changes things. So... there's no Way Corps any longer?
sudo
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potato
I have a question. what accommodations are made for disabled participants, or are they declined permission to participate until they get healed?
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Linda Z
I'll add my welcome to the recent SOWERS grad...welcome!
You offered to answer questions. Boy, do the posters on GSC have a good supply of those! :)
Some of the questions asked are good; some of them read like a script for an interrogation. I only have one: Is the intention of the SOWERS group to build on what was good about VP's (the grandfather) organization (specifically, The Way Corps, since that's what SOWERS seems to be modeled after), and do its leaders acknowledge what was not good about it, and are they endeavoring to correct those things?
I'd suggest that you answer the questions you feel qualified and want to answer. You came here volunnarily. You're not obligated to defend or speak for the entire SOWERS organization.
As Sudo says, our beliefs are all over the board. Some people (in the minority here, by far) still hold to all they were taught in PFAL and/or The Way Corps. The rest of us hold beliefs ranging from "similar to what The Way Int'l taught" to believing "a lot of it was BS but some of it was sound" to believing "none of it was true or worthwhile." There are evangelical Christians here, Mormons, Catholics, other Christians, Jews, Pagans, Wiccans, agnostics, and atheists (and probably more categories I don't know about), so be prepared to be disagreed with on a variety of fronts. :D
If you're up to it, slip on your asbestos suit and have at it. If you want to debate doctrine, it would be a good idea to take that to the Doctrinal Forum rather than here. And it would be a great idea to leave the hints/threats of physical fighting on the playground where they belong.
If you see my old pal Fred Sedahl (I knew him when I worked in Way Publications and he was doing PR for twi), please tell him I said hello and that I hope he's doing well!
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Ham
Sorry if it feels like that..
actually, I started out with a few discrete questions to the "source". When they were not answered, the questions just kinda backed up, like a log jam or something..
Sowers grad.. maybe you could assemble these and present them to those who really ought to be answering these questions. I don't know if you are qualified to answer them as it is..
peace
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Ham
In the mean time, congratulations on your accomplishment. Though I am still unclear exactly what it is..
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JeffSjo
Dear S.O.W.E.R.S. Grad09,
Welcome to the Greasespot Cafe!
I hope that you stand is fruitfull. If it is I expect that it may not be going down exactly as you expect, but what the heck, neither of us is really in charge of results because we are just people.....huh.
I've really learned to enjoy posting and some of the ways that our words can be fully considered over time and responded to. But I make no claim to fully comprehend your words but I do expect to have a little fun responding.
Here goes...
I am glad that you are being (for the most part, but not all the way) forthright as to who you are and what your intentions are.
I find your initial paragraph to be defensive however, and in the course of open an free conversation you will find that such an aggressive defense right from the start tends to....
#1 Become a form of self fulfilling prophecy.
and
#2 Actually reveals weakness
and
#3 That many of us Greasespotters that do our best hold to the scriptures are (get ready) actually (This may blow your mind) quite fond of the Greasespotters who choose not to hold to the scriptures!
and
#4 Find your views of credibilty to be trite and a little simplistic. Not to mention annoying since many of us have been around and around on this well worn Greasespot path.
I am genuinely interested in seeing how long you stick around and where the fellowship takes you.
I respect your willingness to fight for someone you feel is a friend.
I do not know V2P2 nor had I ever even heard of him before I came to the Greasespot, but when I do manage to form an opinion that I then post I won't be concerned with you at all.
BRAGGING, INTIMIDATION, and BULLYING, and all the while hiding behind your anonymity.... yeah...I'm real freakin scared.(sarcasm)
Oh goody, is it just me or are you presuming to think that what you do want to happen or don't want to happen will have any effect. Don't hold your breath.....
Something which in my opinion and in this circumstance seems about 180 degrees from anything that I can think of out of either the Lord's mouth or Paul's. Good start(sarcasm) Mr brawler!
(added in editing)
I just wanna say hi!
See ya around.
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
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cheranne
Seriously Dude.
Run For Your Life!
http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=9fb9e41674e0b7874f12&utm_source=newsletter0706&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weeklytopvideos
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waysider
Is "familia" still considered a staple of the believer's diet?
:P
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chockfull
Awesome! A young redneck Bible student with a chip on his shoulder! It sounds like your year of training really helped you obtain the balance, longsuffering, and humility of the fruit of the spirit ;)
However I will say that fighting skills and anger have very little to do with one another, so you might want to tone it down there a little, Joe Dirt.
You know, if V2P2 wants to make himself a niche in Bible study while working on a farm like his grandpa, I guess that's cool. There seems to be a small market for it. And the org his grandpa founded now has someone who walks around with the nose in the air as opposed to working on a farm, so he couldn't do worse without some serious effort.
Nice to meet you. Thx for stopping by. Have a greasespot doughnut.
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cheranne
So this is IT?
http://sowersonline.com/contactus.aspx
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JeffSjo
Wait, as in,"don't mess wit la familia!?"
Too funny.
Personally I'll generally settle for not kicking the wounded. But I guess some "familia" don't really act like saints no matter what they think of themselves!
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GeorgeStGeorge
I admit that there are a boatload of questions on the table, but it would be nice to get a FEW answers...
George
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Ham
Yep. And like from the BOARD..
whoever they are..
There's Pa.. Mac.. and Junior. Is that all?
I don't think a "victim" of the program is entirely qualified to answer all these questions..
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Oakspear
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