New here just wanna say hi!

[TheHeckler]

No. They believe that tongues is prayer and praise to God - therefore no interpretation necessary. Prophecy is spoken - obviously - not necessarily to the whole group. If you watch a Hillsong DVD you will see praise and tongues being done during songs. Heck Joyce Meyers speaks in tongues.

Let's talk more about it later. I'm tired now. Appreciate your patience with me. And about a few of my comments I apologize specifically to you and the other women here. Like I said, it's a modern term of endearment, that I almost never use unless trying to emphasize modern youth(which is rare, I usually try to act all grown-up ;)). See ya ;)

Edited December 8, 2009 by TheHeckler

[leafytwiglet]

Let's talk more about it later. I'm tired now. Appreciate your patience with me. And about a few of my comments I apologize specifically to you and the other women here. Like I said, it's a modern term of endearment, that I almost never use unless trying to emphasize modern youth(which is rare, I usually try to act all grown-up ;)). See ya ;)

IT was a rude comment .. The term has NEVER been a term of endearment throughout history ... and has always been used in a derogatory fashion. Usually it is meant to signify the person has no say in anything and is worthless....Which is how you used it.

For now I will assume you used it in the heat of the moment and because THE media has tried to dress it up in pretty clothes and tried to make it seem not as bad as it is... and you are still young.

DO continue to come here, but come to learn about TWI's past and about Head quarters today. I am not sure where you live but if you live far away from headquarters, you probably do not have a clear picture of the true nature of TWI... I was like that, I lived out west... My judgement of TWI was based on the believers from my area and the leadership there.... and a bit of luck as to who I was with.... My few encounters with HQ were almost unanimously not good. but I continued in my faith in the teachings and the intent much like you, basing it on the fact that no one denomination was perfect. I was sadly wrong ... I did see enough stuff, and hear enough things to make me begin to question it... long before the lawsuits happened and the Martindale years of control and evilness. A dear friend who was in the Corps told me of his disgust with the whole Corps program and Headquarters... He left because of the Idolatry that was so prevalent there and within the program itself.

I believe that you are here for a reason perhaps not the one you envisioned when you stumbled into the site... Or maybe exactly for that reason...

You should probably understand a few things ...There are people from all walks of life here... Aged 20's and up.. From all different parts of the country... from all different periods in TWI.. Some are even still involved for various reasons.

This site is here to tell about what was wrong with TWI.. Many of us will also talk about the good times we had with fellow believers because the believers are what got people to stay, and many times what got them involved in the first place.

But we will also tell you what was wrong with it... DO know this... people are not lying on here...They are not making stuff up.

They have come here and told what they saw .. what happened to them.. the good and the bad... and many times some very ugly stuff...and been surprised to find out that they were not the only one who was having this experience and it was happening all over the country.

The sad thing about the bad stuff is it was at the hands of Head quarters or leadership in TWI.. not from some one who was outside of TWI..

In fact in all my time in TWI ... only one time was I ever treated badly by some one outside of TWI.

I saw stuff happen to other believers and I sat Mutely by... and for that I have asked God for forgiveness....

So I hope the rest of your time here is spent more productively than arguing with people....and making rude comments to them or about the owner of this website.

But then that is up to you.

But you should understand... though you are of the opinion that the things that were wrong with TWI were changed... and you are taking them at their word... perhaps you should do some reading on here and seeing what the beginning of TWI was about .. That will really show you what is changed or what is the same...

and maybe show you where the errors are in the doctrine.

and now... sorry for the length of this post.. but I think we all need to start over with a new cup of coffee and a new cinnamon roll..

Welcome to the Grease Spot Cafe .. where we share about our EXPERIENCES in TWI.. and what we have learned along the way.

Perhaps you will share yours..

edited for grammatical errors and a spelling error

Edited December 8, 2009 by leafytwiglet

[GrouchoMarxJr]

For me The Way is the greatest thing in my life.

Well...congratulations Heckler. You've managed to bite into a poison weiner and swallow it...been there, done that...these people are lowlife rats and involving yourself with them will not only lead you away from the Christ you seek, but will leave you empty and all used up...

"but no Groucho, you're wrong, you've been deceived! You've walked away from the great revelation of God's word!"

...and as long as you believe THAT, twi has you hooked.

Edited December 8, 2009 by GrouchoMarxJr

[GrouchoMarxJr]

...and it's really a shame...because I don't expect Heckler or Jeckler or anyone else to snap out of their demented cult world because of my post.

I went through this crap 30 years ago...they will finally have to reach a place within themselves when they can no longer ignore the abuse, lies and bulls **t that generates a posh lifestyle for the "leaders"...God doesn't need your money...these bastards do.

wake up.

[OldSkool]

This is too funny. We have a wafer trolling grease spot. FAIL.

Edited December 9, 2009 by OldSkool

[mstar1]

i will take all your questions over the course of the next few days, weeks, months etc.

your words not mine...

There are pages upon pages of questions we've been waiting a year and a half to hear the answers to.

At the very least we know the S.O.W.E.R.S. position on being a Man of your word....

staying true their TWI forbearers, personal responsibility is not in the gameplan

[GeorgeStGeorge]

your words not mine...

There are pages upon pages of questions we've been waiting a year and a half to hear the answers to.

I haven't been waiting.

George

[mstar1]

Id really like to hear what a committed innie has to say, if only for the selfish reason of wanting to know what i probably sounded like 30 years ago....

OTOH He may tell me I didnt rightly divide his post, he said that he'd 'take' questions, not that he'd answer them

[Catcup]

Howdy everyone! As my screen name says I am indeed a a graduate of sowers class 08-09. I will reveal my name and age in due time and for those who have followed the website closely you will probably figger out which sower i am soon enough.

You probably already know who I am. If not, you ought to be smart enough to figure it out.

Ooooh... should I stick around for the "reveal"? Why should I care? Hmmm.

Im sure yall all have a bazillion questions to ask me.

Odd. So I respectfully submit the question, Why would we want to? Most new folk come here seeking information, not to set themselves up for fifty questions and a guessing game.

I want to say from the start, I am NOT here to bash anyone. I know the feelings a d opinions that are presented on this website torwards the WAY dr. weirwillie, the sowers program, and the word in general. They are not favorable. You are entitled to taht obviously. I do not mind people disaggreeing with me however, i ask you to be polite and respectful.

You say that the feelings and opinions presented here are "not favorable" to "the word in general". Well, again, that's your opinion to which you are entitled. Mine is that you're wrong on that count, but of course I am entitled to my opinion as well.

I just think maybe what YOU believe is "the word" and what folks here believe is "the word" is not exactly the same. Well, none of us have cornered the market on truth, so who is to say what the word is. But then again, you probably deep down in your heart don't really believe that-- hence your belief that folks here who do not believe the same things you do, in general do not favor "the word". Is that respectful enough for you?

If you wish to accuse anyone of anything, i ask that you do so only if you WERE ACTUALLY THERE AND EXPERIENCED IT FIRSTHAND! .

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where you are going with this.

You believe what goes on here is "gossip" and is not credible. Yeah, well, you are entitled to your opinion.

hereay from a buddy who may or may not be gossiping is not credible It dont fly in court and it dont fly with me.

WHAT exactly doesn't fly in court? Are we in court now? "hereay" (I think you really meant "hearsay"--typo forgiven) of course is not admissible in a court of law. This of course is an open forum, and not a court of law. However, many of the stories related here about negative experiences with The Way and their legal representatives are in fact first hand witness from people who suffered wrongdoing.

And--speaking of what is and is not accepted in a court of law-- since you brought it up-- many of the first hand accounts that have been discussed on this website and others, at which you and perhaps people you defend take umbrage, were actually ADMITTED in a court of law, and SUCCESSFULLY so, I might add. Other people lined up to give first hand testimony of abuse suffered at the hands of TWI and its legally designated "ministers" and representatives, and were ready to be deposed for those testimonies. This so frightened TWI and their legally designated "ministers" and representatives that they settled out of court rather than have these specific facts come to light in a court of law.

However there is one topic i want to set yall straight on from the start. Victor weirwille.

the grandson. V2p2 or whatever yall call him.

OK....you've come here to "set us straight", eh? On Victor?

, he is very humble, respectful, and someone who i will aggressively defend.

He may very well be. I don't know. But why does he need defending? And why do you feel the need to defend him? If he doesn't think it's important enough to come here to "defend" himself (against what, heaven knows), then why is it so important for you to aggressively) do it?

I am not a violent person, however, if you want to make any personal attacks against him, you had best not let me know your true identity. I am willing to fight over comments made about him.Trust me, you really dont want a ....ed off redneck knockin' at your door.

For someone who insists on others to be "respectful" you sure are dong a lot of posturing and insinuating --no, threatening violence against people who might vastly differ from your opinion of your friend.

OK, what if I hold what you consider a false, quite negative opinion of your friend. Figure out who I am. Come find me, and you may find more than you bargained for.

My intentions here are not to fight though, so lets keep everything respectful and decent.

I simply do not believe your stated intentions. That's more respectable than calling you an outright liar, right?

Pardon me if I don't believe you are here for anything other than stirring up $I-I i T.... to muddy the waters. JMHO to which I am entitled.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Catcup

[Catcup]

Also, please dont compare him to his Granddad. Dr died when vic was what? 2 years old? how much can you learn from someone at that age? victor must be treated as a seperate person who just happens to share the weirwilly name. I am done talking about him. He will probably see these postes sooner or later and I am sure he would not feel comfortable with us talking about him.

OFCOL. YOU are the one who brought him up, basically dared anyone to knock the chip off your shoulder about "aggressively" defending him, and now you wanna backpedal? If he does come here and read what you started about him, I wouldn't be surprised if he clocked you one himself.

I repsonded to your opening post without first reading the rest of what, 17 pages of discourse now? This should be entertaining, at least.

[Catcup]

Oh fer cryion' out loud I just noticed I've replied to a jack-o-lantern who first posted in 2009 and abandoned his troll squat.

lol!

[Ham]

Don't compare him to his grand dad..

I hope he doesn't give us a good reason to do so..

still.. the pattern seems to be.. moggy is, moggy does..

Truth is a pathless land..

[waysider]

How can you NOT compare him to his Grand-daddy? He's made himself a virtual clone by intentionally resurrecting the Phoenix from the ashes.

[waysider]

Do you suppose it's just a coincidence he is using the Corps principles as a basis for his program?

To Fearlessly Pursue an Understanding of these Principles:

1. Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness.

2. Receive training in the whole Word so as to be able to teach others.

3. Physical training making your physical body, the vehicle of communication of

the Word, as vital as possible.

4. Practice believing to bring material abundance to you and the Ministry.

5. Go forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest and need.

SOURCE

(Maybe God showed them to him during one of those terrible black-snow storms in Mississippi.)

Maybe this part is a coincidence, as well:

Any volunteer may be dismissed at any

time and/or program cancelled at sole discretion of those charged with oversight.

Edited February 19, 2011 by waysider

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 7/8/2009 at 0:21 AM, S.O.W.E.R.S Grad 09 said:

Of course we worked on the farm! It has a purpose. To build discipline and establish a sense of responsibilty and a need to work for people who may otherwise have never been exposed to it. We only worked 4 hours a day, 20 hours a week, hardly slave labor. In fact i am used to a rural lifestyle working in warehouses and on farms. It is not unusual for me to work 70 hours in a week. The work part of the program is VERY important, but truth be told, it was a vacation as for me as far as work goes. Some people will get a LOT of benefit out of it. I persoanlly didnt. But some people need growth in caertain areas while others need growth in other areas.

Honey, I think you need to learn how to spell.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 7/8/2009 at 0:21 AM, S.O.W.E.R.S Grad 09 said:

Of course we worked on the farm! It has a purpose. To build discipline and establish a sense of responsibilty and a need to work for people who may otherwise have never been exposed to it. We only worked 4 hours a day, 20 hours a week, hardly slave labor. In fact i am used to a rural lifestyle working in warehouses and on farms. It is not unusual for me to work 70 hours in a week. The work part of the program is VERY important, but truth be told, it was a vacation as for me as far as work goes. Some people will get a LOT of benefit out of it. I persoanlly didnt. But some people need growth in caertain areas while others need growth in other areas.

I suggest you take a basic class in English; your grasp of English is quite poor for someone your age.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 7/8/2009 at 4:29 AM, mstar1 said:

Gee--Its a tough and impatient crowd around here tonight--Im sort of hoping S'09 sticks around for at least a little while and we get to hear what an insider, a 'believer", has to say before a brawl breaks out and we never get any info from him again....do me a favor and give him a little bit of a break and let him speak a bit before the mauling commences -- will ya?

Whether I agree or dont-I do want to hear what he has to say. If nothing else it will add to the knowledge pool

Y'all have to admit that it was sort of gutsy in away for him to come here in the first place considering that we here are probably just as stereotyped to him as he is to us...

Now....to S09 ..Speak up lad....Im trying to be respectful to you as you asked--I hope that you can respect that....--I have some honest questions back on page one---start there

He can say whatever he wants, within reason.  But when he starts to threaten people, that's a turn off for me.  Quite frankly, I don't think he is "gutsy" at all.  He sounds like an uneducated Axxhole to me.  I've heard enough of his dreck.  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 7/8/2009 at 9:00 AM, geisha779 said:

Wolves wear sheep's clothing. . . . why sugar coat it?

This guy can spare himself years of endless wandering if he gets away now. . . . might be nice for him to someday be able to comfortably attend a church or speak to someone without assessing them for "devil spirits" or to see how "off" they are in their believing.

I don't think that is harsh. . . just truthful.

He already has an idol built. . . threatening violence to protect him.

I. . . . for one. . . . find that odd.

Wish someone had laid it out for me. My life might have been very different.

Run away. . . . run away. . . . that family is poison. . . and hey. . . I always LIKED Sarah and Kevin.

779, it sounds to me that he doesn't want to hear any good advice from us older folks.  Let him learn from his own mistakes like we did.  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 7/8/2009 at 10:49 AM, GrouchoMarxJr said:

Sowers grad...I read the part in your post about your willingness to answer questions. Well...are you also interested in ASKING questions?...Are you here to learn?...or are you here to teach?

Are you interested in learning HOW and WHY the biblical doctrine of Wierwille was/is wrong?

When you claim that the young Wierwille is a "great man of God", what do you base this on?...being a nice guy? having a charismatic personality? the "things" that he teaches? What's your criteria?

GM, bingo!!  Leave it to you to ask the questions, that many of us would like answered.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 7/8/2009 at 9:10 PM, waysider said:

The real irony here is that VPW actually DID have a "goon squad" that he could dispatch to travel hundreds of miles away on a moment's notice. I personally know of an instance when the "goons" knocked on someone's front door and threatened to physically silence the person if he didn't stop bad mouthing "The Ministry" in his local area.

Not the usual, "The adversary will sneak in and attack you" kinda stuff. More like, "We will to fit you with cement boots if you don't shut up." I'm hoping (for his sake) that our young friend isn't suggesting he would like to be a part of anything similar.

Way, I didn't know VPW had a real goon squad.  I thought that was just a rumor.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 7/9/2009 at 3:31 AM, dmiller said:

< < < ----------- My real name. No smoke or mirrors here.

Hey there Caleb. Welcome to Grease Spot. I'm old enough to be your grandfather, so (if I may) I'll offer some advice here.

Are you wanting to share your experience with SOWERS? If so, folks here will be interested in hearing about it.

I saw your retraction about the "fighting issue", and was glad to see that. Antagonism never gets you anywhere. Especially here at GSC.

You need to realize that many of us were burned by twi, and have little (if any) love for the org.

You can extoll the virtues of what you went through/ are going through all you want, but if it sounds like twi - - -

You need to realize you're going to be facing criticism from those who have gone through the same,

albeit in a different time and space.

So - - - have at it. To say you've taken on a monumental task is an understatement.

Good luck, and God bless.

Miller, what a lovely post!!  You are so right; I wish him the best.  But, I hope, and pray that he doesn't waste his precious youth in a cult.  But, he is legally an adult, and he has the right to make his own decisions.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 7/10/2009 at 8:02 AM, rascal said:

But twinky he did give information. His age, a little bit about his back ground etc. He really doesn`t owe us anything at all. Seems like a nice guy to me. Young idealistic, on fire for God.

He reminds me of us 20 years ago, no?

Maybe I am wrong..shrug it was just how I saw things at the time. Otherwise kind and caring people who seemed hostile in their posts. I just wanted to remember that we are talking to a young man whom has not the scope or experience to understand the roots and possible pit falls of this group.

I know if folks tried to talk to me about the ministry like we just did when I was his age, I`d have been a lot more provoking...lol

I just felt like maybe if we were a bit more understanding, a bit less interrogating, he might get to know and appreciate some of our points of view.

Rascal, it might be twenty years ago for some of you; for me, it was 40 years ago.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 7/10/2009 at 8:19 AM, doojable said:

I dunno...

S-'09 came here and threw some chum in the water.

He entered a site filled with folks the same age as his mother and was combative. Even though he apologized later, he still started his thread in an antagonistic fashion. I understand enthusiasm, but rudeness?

I was his age 30 years ago. As a responsible adult, shouldn't I (and others) be helping him learn from our mistakes?

Would your kids walk up to adult strangers and start flinging around insults and threats? I doubt it. I get impetuousness, but that doesn't make it right.

And after all, part of the reason we post here at GSC is so that people can come here and read and avoid the mistakes we made thirty years ago.

Doo, that's true, but does he want any help from us older people??  He is/was a young adult.  We can give him our advice, and opinions, but he will do whatever he wants to do.  We can't force him to leave the SOWERS; he will have to do that on his own.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 7/9/2009 at 0:56 PM, JeffSjo said:

Hey Caleb,

As far as your first post and my former response I want you to realize that I meant every freakin word of it!

I also want you to know that I do not hold anything personally against you and my response was not an attack at you.

It is just that most all of us at the greasespot has seen that "passive aggressive crapola" that spewed out of your computer in the very first post in your thread. And I guess we all have different ways of dealing with it.

Here you are looking at a possible career in law enforcement and one of the first things out of you mouth (so-to-speak) is a direct threat from you that any of us may have a p!ssed of redneck knocking at our door. Well that prospect really does not frighten me. I have kept my head in more bad situations than you are years old I'm fairly certain. And I know how to deal with that "fight or flight" adrenalin rush that goes with those situations and can still manage to hold onto my poker face through it all.

Let me tell you something boy, IF YOU EVER THREATEN ANYONE HEAR AT THE GREASESPOT AGAIN I WILL BE MORE OR LESS PERMANENTLY PO'D AT YOU UNTIL YOU SEE HOW VILE THAT BEHAVIOR REALLY IS. I mean what is it, do you like the idea of threatening women, kids, and people who are still recovering from the very ministry brutallity that you have already abundantly proved yourself capable of?

And then even while threatening to be pounding at some kids door as an angry redneck you have the unmitigated gall to say that you want to keep things respectful?

I suggest you take a real hard look at how you and your "Great man of God" use anger and threats. And if you can honestly say that threatening people who have been so badly beat up by their TWI experiences that some of us still need to find a reason every day to keep going sounds anything like JESUS CHRIST, then fine, but I know that you will not be able to justify your brutal behavior unless you have already became settled in TWI style delusion when it comes to determining who needs tenderness vs. who needs a slap in the face.

I'll tell you what, go ahead and ask your best law enforcement teacher what he/she thinks of your first post. I'm betting that if you don't actually have a change of heart that they would consider it a black mark on you for the rest of your law enforcement career.

You dumbazz kid!

You are not practicing a biblical faith here so far. Who taught you this crapola?

Jeff, I think your post is so good, I wanted to repost it.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 7/10/2009 at 7:41 PM, GrouchoMarxJr said:

Thinking about this stuff for a few days now...Sowers?....

Let me see if I got this straight...The grandson of the grand pubah (who just happens to have the same name) starts a "thing" that closely resembles the waycorps training, even borrowing their main objectives...word for word. From all accounts, their doctrine is aligned closely to what Vic taught...

...and now this guy shows up proclaiming himself a sowers grad...and wanting to be pals with everyone.

As far as I'm concerned, he can kiss my foot. plain and simple...if you follow the doctrines of victor small wierwille, you are a loser...been there done that. What these people believe is flat out wrong and destructive to people. As far as it goes, they can spread their poison elsewhere. I have no toleration for these sons of britches...none at all.

GM, bingo!!