New here just wanna say hi!

[Ham]

I'll say this.. you have a rough row to hoe.. infinitely harder than the one I had as a WOW..

*good luck*..

heh

[RumRunner]

I'll say this.. you have a rough row to hoe.. infinitely harder than the one I had as a WOW..

*good luck*..

heh

W_eh = Ham’s WOW Work Effort

W_es = Sower’s Work Effort

W_es mathematically cannot equal W_eh∞

But his long term misery might…

[Broken Arrow]

This is getting annoying

ie. lets have a conversation -- then leave everyone hanging and 'skip town'

look Caleb-- you arent some exception to the rule--we are all very busy--if you are going to stick to your word and represent your org as you said that you would then start participating and answering. If you are just another untrustable run of the mill BS'er ---well----we are already getting that message by your disappearance and lack of honest communication with us

Its not too late to redeem yourself but your stock in my eyes is going down every passing day that you blow us off----

One thing that I can say at this point is that your silence and absence speaks as loudly as your words, even more so, and so far represents the core of the organization you graduated from very aptly.

Promises promises and when it comes to owning up---zilch

So far you represent them well

I'm thinkin' Caleb's been silenced by somebody in the corporation.

Edited July 17, 2009 by erkjohn

[ljn698]

i thought these guys got in trouble for doing the internut thing

[mstar1]

Well that would show us some things wouldnt it? Someone else still has to do his thinking and decision making for him, there is a hierarchy and control issues, and personal responsibility is still near nil

He personally told us that he'd take questions. If the student who sat at the feet of the great MOG St. Vic Jr cannot do something as simple as keeping his word on a very simple matter what does that tell us?

Silence tells us just as much as words at this point, no matter what the angle, whether he bailed on us, or if someone told him to bow to the organizations first it doesnt speak well of either the organization or him.

So far he is holding us, as well as himself, in disregard.

I gave this young man a fair opportunity to open up and share as he would (check back to the first few pages)--so far I am not impressed

[waysider]

In Fellow Laborers, we used to start our days with a "run to the tree and back". Maybe he ran to the tree and forgot to come back.

ONE mississippi----TWO mississippi----THREE mississippi---

[geisha779]

Sadly, I thought he was a young man of his word. . . . I am working straight out this week, but how long does it take to post a few words?

[doojable]

Sadly, I thought he was a young man of his word. . . . I am working straight out this week, but how long does it take to post a few words?

Apparently it takes a long time to get those few words approved.

[doojable]

I would like to know how the whole "going to heaven and all hell can't stop you" thing is being taught now.

Remember? If you could SIT... blah, blah... Your proof in the senses world...(BUT we weren't supposed to be deceived by our 5 senses!)

So... let's see...

I do something I KNOW is wrong. But I can SIT...oh goody! The Big Guy didn't catch that one. I'm still gonna wear a white robe.

I do something I KNOW is wrong - AGAIN... check the SIT meter... Yep still going to the pearly gates.

Maybe if I ramp it up a bit... OMG - this is amazing!

And hey... no matter what, as long as I fess up at the end of the day He has to forgive me! WOW! What a free pass!

So is there still a complete doctrine of unaccountability being taught? Is Gawd still just a puppet on a string? Is someone still teaching that with the wave of a few words and by the power of the Magic of Believing all is well?

Say is isn't so...

[Tzaia]

Dooj - lots of churches do not teach the concept of accountability - whether the sin was committed before the "come to Jesus" moment or after. This whole clean slate thing is wonderful when you can't go to the person and at least try to fix things. It's a whole other thing when it is used to excuse bad behavior. The idea that Christians should forgive other Christians for doing bad things because they are Christians is too simplistic, IMO.

[Ham]

while we are on questions..

Were you taught that the holocaust never happened, or if it did, it was "greatly exaggerated"?

Were readings from the Myth of the six million part of sowers teaching? How about a certain reverence toward fred leuchter's "scientific" "findings"?

Did you agree with what was stated or have serious doubts about it?

What does "leadership" think of our current president?

just toss these little questions in the pot with the rest of them..

[mstar1]

would like to know how the whole "going to heaven and all hell can't stop you" thing is being taught now.

Remember? If you could SIT... blah, blah... Your proof in the senses world...(BUT we weren't supposed to be deceived by our 5 senses!)

So... let's see...

I do something I KNOW is wrong. But I can SIT...oh goody! The Big Guy didn't catch that one. I'm still gonna wear a white robe.

I do something I KNOW is wrong - AGAIN... check the SIT meter... Yep still going to the pearly gates.

Maybe if I ramp it up a bit... OMG - this is amazing!

Apparently "The no personal integrity christianity because I dont have to be and Im better than you anyway " is still the alive and well, at least until we get some indication otherwise.

That doctrine always bugged me..

I do something I KNOW is wrong..

Since SIT as they do it is some proof of ultimate acceptance then even the sense of right and wrong eventually gets wiped out.

Grandpa Saint Vic used to talk about "having No sense of sin, guilt or condemnation". Later we found out he had a steady stream of young girls serving him while teaching this...What a crock, what he taught as 'renewed mind" was no more than a "seared conscience".

[doojable]

Dooj - lots of churches do not teach the concept of accountability - whether the sin was committed before the "come to Jesus" moment or after. This whole clean slate thing is wonderful when you can't go to the person and at least try to fix things. It's a whole other thing when it is used to excuse bad behavior. The idea that Christians should forgive other Christians for doing bad things because they are Christians is too simplistic, IMO.

I realize the concept of accountability is common. My point was that the added "benefit" of SIT was that it added a layer of deception to everything.

[JustThinking]

Did they say?Give me one reason why we should not ask you to leave?Give it in writing?

Twi did that to me/group of wows when I was a wow.

Wow! Still new bad ideas to discover from TWI. Amazing. Sorry you had to put up with that.

JT

[frank123lol]

It was 31 years ago,I got really thick skin,actually they (twi)

pulled that trick ever since the 1rst corps

[geisha779]

I would like to know how the whole "going to heaven and all hell can't stop you" thing is being taught now.

Remember? If you could SIT... blah, blah... Your proof in the senses world...(BUT we weren't supposed to be deceived by our 5 senses!)

So... let's see...

I do something I KNOW is wrong. But I can SIT...oh goody! The Big Guy didn't catch that one. I'm still gonna wear a white robe.

I do something I KNOW is wrong - AGAIN... check the SIT meter... Yep still going to the pearly gates.

Maybe if I ramp it up a bit... OMG - this is amazing!

And hey... no matter what, as long as I fess up at the end of the day He has to forgive me! WOW! What a free pass!

So is there still a complete doctrine of unaccountability being taught? Is Gawd still just a puppet on a string? Is someone still teaching that with the wave of a few words and by the power of the Magic of Believing all is well?

Say is isn't so...

The irony. . . . . . if you could SIT... blah, blah... Your proof in the senses world...(BUT we weren't supposed to be deceived by our 5 senses!) I missed that one!

SIT was(IMHO) a crock of S IT.

And. . . . it was never really about trying to be good. . . although we were "The Best" . . . . and I know because people used to tell me so ALL the time.

Accountability is what I learned AFTER TWI. When I didn't have someone always telling me I was God's elite, super special believer with all the power and actually doing Him the favor.

It is a wonder God ever made it without us. . . Oh that's right. . . he didn't. . . he was lost until it snowed on gas pumps. Duh. . . . silly me.

I wonder if SOWERS has picked up the slack we cop-outs left?

[WordWolf]

This is getting annoying

ie. lets have a conversation -- then leave everyone hanging and 'skip town'

look Caleb-- you arent some exception to the rule--we are all very busy--if you are going to stick to your word and represent your org as you said that you would then start participating and answering. If you are just another untrustable run of the mill BS'er ---well----we are already getting that message by your disappearance and lack of honest communication with us

Its not too late to redeem yourself but your stock in my eyes is going down every passing day that you blow us off----

One thing that I can say at this point is that your silence and absence speaks as loudly as your words, even more so, and so far represents the core of the organization you graduated from very aptly.

Promises promises and when it comes to owning up---zilch

So far you represent them well

Perhaps this explains everything..

looking for.. kids under twenty five years old.. why? You have no use for older, experienced individuals?

maybe you are "witnessing"?

I know some kids under twenty five.. you can't have them..

sowey.. they are smarter than the average "witnesser"..

even without my personal influence..

Most "kids" under twenty five still have all of their teeth..

is that it?

you've learned your master's lessons, well..

I know one of them.. who abandoned your kind of nonsense.. and found the Roman Catholic faith more palatable, than what you have to offer..

Hi. i am 22 and wonderin g if there are any young people her. lets say from the ages 25 and under. I would love to hear about you.

It might. Our new poster's entire posting on this thread has been, so far.....

[WordWolf]

Howdy everyone! As my screen name says I am indeed a a graduate of sowers class 08-09. I will reveal my name and age in due time and for those who have followed the website closely you will probably figger out which sower i am soon enough. Im sure yall all have a bazillion questions to ask me. I want to say from the start,

I am NOT here to bash anyone.

I know the feelings a d opinions that are presented on this website torwards the WAY dr. weirwillie, the sowers program,

and the word in general. They are not favorable. You are entitled to taht obviously. I do not mind people disaggreeing with me however, i ask you to be polite and respectful. If you wish to accuse anyone of anything, i ask that you do so only if you WERE ACTUALLY THERE AND EXPERIENCED IT FIRSTHAND! hereay from a buddy who may or may not be gossiping is not credible. It dont fly in court and it dont fly with me.

I dont feel like typing a whole lot right now,

but i will take all your questions over the course of the next few days, weeks, months etc.

However there is one topic i want to set yall straight on from the start. Victor weirwille.

the grandson. V2p2 or whatever yall call him.

he is agreat man of God, and a great person in general. He is one of the most loving, caring, kindest people I have ever met. I heard him yell only once or twice in ten months, and that as because he needed to get someone's attention. I am damn proud to consider him a friend. When it comes to teh word he knows his stuff and tries his best to live a Godly lifestyle. BUT! he does not shove it down anyones throat, he doesnt think he is the end all be all authority on all things God, he is very humble, respectful, and someone who i will aggressively defend. I am not a violent person, however, if you want to make any personal attacks against him, you had best not let me know your true identity. I am willing to fight over comments made about him.Trust me, you really dont want a ....ed off redneck knockin' at your door. Somje people in the sowers program will claim they have seen me me angry. Well, they havent. My intentions here are not to fight though, so lets keep everything respectful and decent.

The floor is open for discussion.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

God Bless.

Anonymous

hey everyone! I appreciate the warm welcome! :) I will address matters as i have time. i am busy working on a farm right now and hours run 60-70 per week.

First off. about the so called threat. pb[Of course i am only kidding about actually showing up at someones door.[/b] But it does kinda portray my feelings on the subject.

The redneck remark was more or less a hint for those of yall that follow the website as to which sower I am, as there was on ein particular that always wore camo jackste, john deere shirts and dixie flag ballcaps.

My name is Caleb. Im 22.

I do have one year of college completed and took some time off casue i wannted to just work and see waht i was interested in. i pplan on attending tech school for Aouto Mechanics and welding, as well as get a degree in criminal justice with plans to possibly go into law enforcement. Whats my background? My mom was a WOW in 82' of course we are no longer involved in the way international. My parents knew stuff went south. However, they chose to leave the orginazation not the word.

Im tired. been a long day on teh forklift movin pallets of watermelons. Im also soaking wet from a toad strangler of aa thunderstorm that snuck up on us, and im covered in cow crap. So i will say good nite and I will see yall later.

Ironically enough I have never reall been crazy or a partier or "wild" rednck is just my upbring. i have lived in the south pretty much my whole life. i was rasied in the country hunting, fishing, muddin', listenin' to Johnny cash with my dad etc...

Probably a poor choice of words to describe me on my first post. i apologize.

What do you mean by vp "lite"?

he is someone who truly wants to be a Godly person and help people with the word of God. he is not someone who claims to be a believer and the sits on his duff. he is also a regular guy. the type of Guy whom you can go fishing with or talk about hunting and music with.

Also, please dont compare him to his Granddad. Dr died when vic was what? 2 years old? how much can you learn from someone at that age? victor must be treated as a seperate person who just happens to share the weirwilly name. I am done talking about him. He will probably see these postes sooner or later and I am sure he would not feel comfortable with us talking about him.

Of course we worked on the farm! It has a purpose. To build discipline and establish a sense of responsibilty and a need to work for people who may otherwise have never been exposed to it. We only worked 4 hours a day, 20 hours a week, hardly slave labor. In fact i am used to a rural lifestyle working in warehouses and on farms. It is not unusual for me to work 70 hours in a week. The work part of the program is VERY important, but truth be told, it was a vacation as for me as far as work goes. Some people will get a LOT of benefit out of it. I persoanlly didnt. But some people need growth in caertain areas while others need growth in other areas.

And that's been it.

That's nearly 10 days since he's attempted to answer questions- of which there have been many on this thread,

many of them respectful.

Then again, someone else suggested he may have been silenced by the Powers-That-Be in SOWERS or somewhere else.

That is another possibility....I've posted more than that and been out of town....

Edited July 17, 2009 by WordWolf

[Tzaia]

and we're surprised because...

[Ham]

I'm surprised, just because somebody stuck their head up out of that nasty old hole.. or whatever it is there..

just the wrong person. I prefer someone supposedly "in charge".. and I'd be polite, as long as I wasn't handed a big line of bull sheet..

[ChasUFarley]

Interesting and predictable.

Yup.

A young buck from a cult-spinoff slides into the forum sideways and starts yammering about the great new fellowship/class/sign-here sorta thing he's into. He's full of the latest-n-greatest of RFAL (Revised For Abundant Living.) Right in the middle of a big ol' forum of ex-wayfers. Yup. Bold. I guess.

He makes you want to like him and he says some funny country-hic things that are a hoot. I get a mind picture of a big ol' corn-fed Iowa boy at a computer, pecking away at a keyboard with his calloused fingers. Sorta cute.

But as you read his posts, you know there's a hook in those posts he's putting on the forum. He's fishing for something'. And the little rules in post #1 - waz that all about? Nope, he wasn't here to bash anyone but.... somehow he's got something wayyyyy better and boy, you'd better not have anything to say in disagreement unless you experienced it first hand. Um... yeah. Okay. Whatever. We've never heard THAT before. <_<

[Ham]

but he's confused.. would he go through the program again? Noooo..

did he like the "rules"..? Noooo..

as bad as this sounds.. I think the parents couldn't figure out any other place for him to go..

he seems to have a good work ethic and all..

I wonder who really is calling the shots in all of this..

is he back on the parents farm..

seventy hours of work a week?

too many questions.. too few answers..

[mstar1]

I prefer someone supposedly "in charge".. and I'd be polite, as long as I wasn't handed a big line of bull sheet..

I was polite to the kid and even went to bat for him on the first few pages, I see now that most of everyone else had the right idea all along.--nothings changed, its the same sold sh!t--even when given the opportunity

The top dogs of the offshoots are scared to death that they will be exposed for what they are here, so stay behind their facades and illusions instead of having an honest one on one conversation like anyone else that you have to deal with.....

Calebs comment about "being covered in cow crap" was truer than he knows

[Ham]

I agree.. its the same.. same as the old "ministry" in every manner.. including the dodging and secrecy of those on top..

so they sit comfy with diligently and precisely split hardwood fire in their fireplaces.. and send child warriors out on missions like this..

technically, he's probably doing exactly as they "trained" him..

[Ham]

The "schizophrenic" part of it is that these "men" want to be (or have the appearance of being) some kind of great "menogawd".. and that is a PUBLIC role. But they feel inquiry is a violation of their private lives.. which makes me conclude, their public and private lives and ethics are far, far removed from one another..

in real life, they have no more power than me.. no power to silence their (supposed) critics..

their pants don't go on any different in the morning..

the "great manogawd's" "humility" he speaks of.. is only part of the public personna.. in private, I get a response to a few relatively easy questions.. in essence, "harrumph.. an elder outgher not act like that.."

I guess the "elders" are supposed to kiss his rear..