Now dont get me wrong, there were rules i didnt agrree with. I also had personal problems with ceartian members of of the Group, however, you will have personal issue anywhere that people are roomamates.but these issues dont affect the quality of the program and are therefore, irrelevant and insignificant and will not be discussed.
Did I get a lot out of the program? yes!
Would I do it again? no
Were there flaws in the way the program was ran? yes. were there significant flaws in the way the program was ran? yes. Did they affect the importance of the program? no. Did they diminish the quality of the training and learning i got from the program? no.
he is someone who truly wants to be a Godly person and help people with the word of God. he is not someone who claims to be a believer and the sits on his duff. he is also a regular guy. the type of Guy whom you can go fishing with or talk about hunting and music with.
Also, please dont compare him to his Granddad. Dr died when vic was what? 2 years old? how much can you learn from someone at that age? victor must be treated as a seperate person who just happens to share the weirwilly name. I am done talking about him. He will probably see these postes sooner or later and I am sure he would not feel comfortable with us talking about him.
So what does the program do for you? Are they teaching you the same stuff as TWI or do ya just work on the farm?
Why did you get involved and what did you do before your life found s.o.w.e.r.s.?
Of course we worked on the farm! It has a purpose. To build discipline and establish a sense of responsibilty and a need to work for people who may otherwise have never been exposed to it. We only worked 4 hours a day, 20 hours a week, hardly slave labor. In fact i am used to a rural lifestyle working in warehouses and on farms. It is not unusual for me to work 70 hours in a week. The work part of the program is VERY important, but truth be told, it was a vacation as for me as far as work goes. Some people will get a LOT of benefit out of it. I persoanlly didnt. But some people need growth in caertain areas while others need growth in other areas.
he is someone who truly wants to be a Godly person and help people with the word of God. he is not someone who claims to be a believer and the sits on his duff. he is also a regular guy. the type of Guy whom you can go fishing with or talk about hunting and music with.
Also, please dont compare him to his Granddad. Dr died when vic was what? 2 years old? how much can you learn from someone at that age? victor must be treated as a seperate person who just happens to share the weirwilly name. I am done talking about him. He will probably see these postes sooner or later and I am sure he would not feel comfortable with us talking about him.
I imagine he teaches the same Christ denying arcane garbage that we called "the word" in TWI. You should RUN not walk to the nearest bible believing church you can find. . . . find a qualified Pastor to help you undo the absolute lies you have certainly learned from this family and you should stay far far away.
I think I would rather tell you to be an atheist than believe a word they teach. . .Those kids were indoctrinated right along with the rest of us. . . .
If you don't. . . you are going to have years of undoing this stuff. . . good luck. . . yes luck. . . you are going to need it.
Of course we worked on the farm! It has a purpose. To build discipline and establish a sense of responsibilty and a need to work for people who may otherwise have never been exposed to it. We only worked 4 hours a day, 20 hours a week, hardly slave labor. In fact i am used to a rural lifestyle working in warehouses and on farms. It is not unusual for me to work 70 hours in a week. The work part of the program is VERY important, but truth be told, it was a vacation as for me as far as work goes. Some people will get a LOT of benefit out of it. I persoanlly didnt. But some people need growth in caertain areas while others need growth in other areas.
Oh. I understand but what are you learning about the bible is is a repeat of the old "PFAL' class ?
Hi Sowers Welcome to Grease Spot. I am willing to assume V2p2 is not VP his grand dad but why teach the same stuff and set up a similar program when he knows how much his Granddad hurt people.
You see I am pretty certain the VP you know... Knows what his Grand dad did I am pretty sure he looks on here at least occasionally.
and there are some people here who were victims of VP and I am pretty sure one of my twig leaders was a victim of him too from some stuff I know about even though she never said it happened to her.
But as you said no second hand witnessing. I know how VP treated people at ROA I saw it first hand. so I will stick to what I know he was a mean bastard!
I hope for V2P2's sake that he really is trying to learn the Bible and do something good. Unfortunately by basing his program on PFAL and the ministry he is following a flawed premise and stolen information.
There are all kinds of people at Grease Spot but just because people choose to question PFAl doesn't mean they have walked away from God's Word which is not the same as walking away from PFAL.
Anyway welcome to here and I will be praying for you.
What sort of "christian journey" did you have BEFORE entering the sowers program?
What is your profession or current job?
family? Are they involved in the Sowers program ? are they supportive?
Can you define "great man of God" in understandable clear and realistic terms?
What is his background, accomplishments, degrees, etc that entitles him to be that title?
What changes have occurred to you since your enrollment in the program?
Now that you have graduated what are you doing and what have you initiated?
and----just curious.....you dont have to answer this one if you dont want--but c'mon now--it was a curious form of introduction..
you had best not let me know your true identity. I am willing to fight over comments made about him.Trust me, you really dont want a ....ed off redneck knockin' at your door. Somje people in the sowers program will claim they have seen me me angry. Well, they havent
I imagine he teaches the same Christ denying arcane garbage that we called "the word" in TWI. You should RUN not walk to the nearest bible believing church you can find. . . . find a qualified Pastor to help you undo the absolute lies you have certainly learned from this family and you should stay far far away.
I think I would rather tell you to be an atheist than believe a word they teach. . .Those kids were indoctrinated right along with the rest of us. . . .
If you don't. . . you are going to have years of undoing this stuff. . . good luck. . . yes luck. . . you are going to need it.
You go girl...strong words but true for a bunch of us I suspect.
I imagine he teaches the same Christ denying arcane garbage that we called "the word" in TWI. You should RUN not walk to the nearest bible believing church you can find. . . . find a qualified Pastor to help you undo the absolute lies you have certainly learned from this family and you should stay far far away.
I think I would rather tell you to be an atheist than believe a word they teach. . .Those kids were indoctrinated right along with the rest of us. . . .
If you don't. . . you are going to have years of undoing this stuff. . . good luck. . . yes luck. . . you are going to need it.
I dont feel like typing a whole lot right now, but i will take all your questions over the course of the next few days, weeks, months etc.
What planet are you from or have you just been missing from planet earth for a while?
I am not a violent person, however, if you want to make any personal attacks against him, you had best not let me know your true identity. I am willing to fight over comments made about him.Trust me, you really dont want a ....ed off redneck knockin' at your door. Somje people in the sowers program will claim they have seen me me angry. Well, they havent. My intentions here are not to fight though, so lets keep everything respectful and decent.
You have already shown your lack of respect and decency with the alluded to threat of violence...or was that just the redneck in you coming out?
Ya see son - I can make any comment I want to about your idol - legally, ethically and morally. If your disagreeing with my comments results in you knockin' on my door then you are fundamentally embracing felonious and violent criminal behavior.
But then again that is nothing new to the wierwille family - not new to any one of the wierwille con men gang of thieves.
How can you be so sure that what you've been taught is any better than what der Victoid (that's vp the elder) taught?
What promises/ploys/benefits - were presented to you to entice you to sign up for this program?
What's next? Is there another program for you? Or will you go home to your family and friends and be you - only different?
Where do you keep your pod?
Did you find where all the Drambuie is hidden?
This is the same MO...
A bunch of kids are told that they can "learn spiritual truths" if they will only help upgrade someone else's property. Free labor that pays for the privilege of being "free."
Traded an Ohio cornfield for a Mississippi mudhole...
OH! - are you planning on going to college? Getting a real job?
Gee--Its a tough and impatient crowd around here tonight--Im sort of hoping S'09 sticks around for at least a little while and we get to hear what an insider, a 'believer", has to say before a brawl breaks out and we never get any info from him again....do me a favor and give him a little bit of a break and let him speak a bit before the mauling commences -- will ya?
Whether I agree or dont-I do want to hear what he has to say. If nothing else it will add to the knowledge pool
Y'all have to admit that it was sort of gutsy in away for him to come here in the first place considering that we here are probably just as stereotyped to him as he is to us...
Now....to S09 ..Speak up lad....Im trying to be respectful to you as you asked--I hope that you can respect that....--I have some honest questions back on page one---start there
Howdy everyone! As my screen name says I am indeed a a graduate of sowers class 08-09. I will reveal my name and age in due time and for those who have followed the website closely you will probably figger out which sower i am soon enough. Im sure yall all have a bazillion questions to ask me. I want to say from the start, I am NOT here to bash anyone. I know the feelings a d opinions that are presented on this website torwards the WAY dr. weirwillie, the sowers program, and the word in general. They are not favorable. You are entitled to taht obviously. I do not mind people disaggreeing with me however, i ask you to be polite and respectful. If you wish to accuse anyone of anything, i ask that you do so only if you WERE ACTUALLY THERE AND EXPERIENCED IT FIRSTHAND! hereay from a buddy who may or may not be gossiping is not credible. It dont fly in court and it dont fly with me.
I dont feel like typing a whole lot right now, but i will take all your questions over the course of the next few days, weeks, months etc.
However there is one topic i want to set yall straight on from the start. Victor weirwille.
the grandson. V2p2 or whatever yall call him.
he is agreat man of God, and a great person in general. He is one of the most loving, caring, kindest people I have ever met. I heard him yell only once or twice in ten months, and that as because he needed to get someone's attention. I am damn proud to consider him a friend. When it comes to teh word he knows his stuff and tries his best to live a Godly lifestyle. BUT! he does not shove it down anyones throat, he doesnt think he is the end all be all authority on all things God, he is very humble, respectful, and someone who i will aggressively defend. I am not a violent person, however, if you want to make any personal attacks against him, you had best not let me know your true identity. I am willing to fight over comments made about him.Trust me, you really dont want a ....ed off redneck knockin' at your door. Somje people in the sowers program will claim they have seen me me angry. Well, they havent. My intentions here are not to fight though, so lets keep everything respectful and decent.
The floor is open for discussion.
Hello S.O.W.E.R.S Grad 09,
Well, quite an introduction. From some of the things you've written, I gather you've read through some of the posts on this site prior to your first post. You would be aware that most of the participants are not here to paint a rosy picture of the Way International. Many were severely abused as direct or indirect result of Victor Wierwille (the first one) and his Way Corps program (which, IMHO, was and is a complete epic failure). Then comes along the S.O.W.E.R.S. program, which on the surface looks and feels a lot like the Way Corps program, right down to its statement of principles and its motto ("It is written"), located on isolated farmland, etc. What do you think people's initial reaction is going to be?
...Did I get a lot out of the program? yes!
Would I do it again? no
Were there flaws in the way the program was ran? yes. were there significant flaws in the way the program was ran? yes. Did they affect the importance of the program? no. Did they diminish the quality of the training and learning i got from the program? no.
Would you like to discuss your experiences with us?
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GrouchoMarxJr
Thinking about this stuff for a few days now...Sowers?.... Let me see if I got this straight...The grandson of the grand pubah (who just happens to have the same name) starts a "thing" that closely r
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Wow I'm heavily struck, here, with how unpredictable can be the human condition and the oft strong desire to be right, to be sure to get the last word in, to be sure to one-up another. Not exactly t
mstar1
The odd thing is that if what they have is so unbelievably wonderful as they tell you, you would think that they would want to share it with the rest of the world and correct our misperceptions instea
GeorgeStGeorge
This should be interesting...
George
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S.O.W.E.R.S Grad 09
indeed....
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geisha779
Yes it should. . . .
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doojable
I'm not so sure this will be interesting at all.
We pretty much know what will be said by the first post.
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S.O.W.E.R.S Grad 09
Now dont get me wrong, there were rules i didnt agrree with. I also had personal problems with ceartian members of of the Group, however, you will have personal issue anywhere that people are roomamates.but these issues dont affect the quality of the program and are therefore, irrelevant and insignificant and will not be discussed.
Did I get a lot out of the program? yes!
Would I do it again? no
Were there flaws in the way the program was ran? yes. were there significant flaws in the way the program was ran? yes. Did they affect the importance of the program? no. Did they diminish the quality of the training and learning i got from the program? no.
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geisha779
Good point.
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geisha779
I can't sleep, I will ask you a question. Why do you call VP lite a "Great" MOG?
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cheranne
So what does the program do for you? Are they teaching you the same stuff as TWI or do ya just work on the farm?
Why did you get involved and what did you do before your life found s.o.w.e.r.s.?
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S.O.W.E.R.S Grad 09
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S.O.W.E.R.S Grad 09
What do you mean by vp "lite"?
he is someone who truly wants to be a Godly person and help people with the word of God. he is not someone who claims to be a believer and the sits on his duff. he is also a regular guy. the type of Guy whom you can go fishing with or talk about hunting and music with.
Also, please dont compare him to his Granddad. Dr died when vic was what? 2 years old? how much can you learn from someone at that age? victor must be treated as a seperate person who just happens to share the weirwilly name. I am done talking about him. He will probably see these postes sooner or later and I am sure he would not feel comfortable with us talking about him.
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S.O.W.E.R.S Grad 09
Of course we worked on the farm! It has a purpose. To build discipline and establish a sense of responsibilty and a need to work for people who may otherwise have never been exposed to it. We only worked 4 hours a day, 20 hours a week, hardly slave labor. In fact i am used to a rural lifestyle working in warehouses and on farms. It is not unusual for me to work 70 hours in a week. The work part of the program is VERY important, but truth be told, it was a vacation as for me as far as work goes. Some people will get a LOT of benefit out of it. I persoanlly didnt. But some people need growth in caertain areas while others need growth in other areas.
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geisha779
I imagine he teaches the same Christ denying arcane garbage that we called "the word" in TWI. You should RUN not walk to the nearest bible believing church you can find. . . . find a qualified Pastor to help you undo the absolute lies you have certainly learned from this family and you should stay far far away.
I think I would rather tell you to be an atheist than believe a word they teach. . .Those kids were indoctrinated right along with the rest of us. . . .
If you don't. . . you are going to have years of undoing this stuff. . . good luck. . . yes luck. . . you are going to need it.
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Broken Arrow
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cheranne
Oh. I understand but what are you learning about the bible is is a repeat of the old "PFAL' class ?
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shortfuse
Um, yeah. Pretty sure y'aller one in tha same.
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leafytwiglet
Hi Sowers Welcome to Grease Spot. I am willing to assume V2p2 is not VP his grand dad but why teach the same stuff and set up a similar program when he knows how much his Granddad hurt people.
You see I am pretty certain the VP you know... Knows what his Grand dad did I am pretty sure he looks on here at least occasionally.
and there are some people here who were victims of VP and I am pretty sure one of my twig leaders was a victim of him too from some stuff I know about even though she never said it happened to her.
But as you said no second hand witnessing. I know how VP treated people at ROA I saw it first hand. so I will stick to what I know he was a mean bastard!
I hope for V2P2's sake that he really is trying to learn the Bible and do something good. Unfortunately by basing his program on PFAL and the ministry he is following a flawed premise and stolen information.
There are all kinds of people at Grease Spot but just because people choose to question PFAl doesn't mean they have walked away from God's Word which is not the same as walking away from PFAL.
Anyway welcome to here and I will be praying for you.
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mstar1
welcome---I'll bite
How old are you?
What is your background?
What sort of "christian journey" did you have BEFORE entering the sowers program?
What is your profession or current job?
family? Are they involved in the Sowers program ? are they supportive?
Can you define "great man of God" in understandable clear and realistic terms?
What is his background, accomplishments, degrees, etc that entitles him to be that title?
What changes have occurred to you since your enrollment in the program?
Now that you have graduated what are you doing and what have you initiated?
and----just curious.....you dont have to answer this one if you dont want--but c'mon now--it was a curious form of introduction..
Why the anger and threat?
Whats that all about?
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RumRunner
You go girl...strong words but true for a bunch of us I suspect.
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doojable
High fives to you Geisha!
Uhhhh... we don't have opinions, do we?
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RumRunner
What planet are you from or have you just been missing from planet earth for a while?
You have already shown your lack of respect and decency with the alluded to threat of violence...or was that just the redneck in you coming out?
Ya see son - I can make any comment I want to about your idol - legally, ethically and morally. If your disagreeing with my comments results in you knockin' on my door then you are fundamentally embracing felonious and violent criminal behavior.
But then again that is nothing new to the wierwille family - not new to any one of the wierwille con men gang of thieves.
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doojable
Okay....
How can you be so sure that what you've been taught is any better than what der Victoid (that's vp the elder) taught?
What promises/ploys/benefits - were presented to you to entice you to sign up for this program?
What's next? Is there another program for you? Or will you go home to your family and friends and be you - only different?
Where do you keep your pod?
Did you find where all the Drambuie is hidden?
This is the same MO...
A bunch of kids are told that they can "learn spiritual truths" if they will only help upgrade someone else's property. Free labor that pays for the privilege of being "free."
Traded an Ohio cornfield for a Mississippi mudhole...
OH! - are you planning on going to college? Getting a real job?
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mstar1
Gee--Its a tough and impatient crowd around here tonight--Im sort of hoping S'09 sticks around for at least a little while and we get to hear what an insider, a 'believer", has to say before a brawl breaks out and we never get any info from him again....do me a favor and give him a little bit of a break and let him speak a bit before the mauling commences -- will ya?
Whether I agree or dont-I do want to hear what he has to say. If nothing else it will add to the knowledge pool
Y'all have to admit that it was sort of gutsy in away for him to come here in the first place considering that we here are probably just as stereotyped to him as he is to us...
Now....to S09 ..Speak up lad....Im trying to be respectful to you as you asked--I hope that you can respect that....--I have some honest questions back on page one---start there
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Kevlar2000
Hello S.O.W.E.R.S Grad 09,
Well, quite an introduction. From some of the things you've written, I gather you've read through some of the posts on this site prior to your first post. You would be aware that most of the participants are not here to paint a rosy picture of the Way International. Many were severely abused as direct or indirect result of Victor Wierwille (the first one) and his Way Corps program (which, IMHO, was and is a complete epic failure). Then comes along the S.O.W.E.R.S. program, which on the surface looks and feels a lot like the Way Corps program, right down to its statement of principles and its motto ("It is written"), located on isolated farmland, etc. What do you think people's initial reaction is going to be?
Would you like to discuss your experiences with us?
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waysider
Do they teach the "law" of believing?
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