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What was God trying to say?


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The concept behind this thread was inspired by this piece I recently heard on National Public Radio.

(Writer's Almanac)

***********************************************************

The Effort by Billy Collins

From Writer’s Almanac June 29, 2009.

The Effort by Billy Collins

Would anyone care to join me

in flicking a few pebbles in the direction

of teachers who are fond of asking the question:

“What is the poet trying to say?”

as if Thomas Hardy and Emily Dickinson

had struggled but ultimately failed in their efforts—

inarticulate wretches that they were,

biting their pens and staring out the window for a clue.

Yes, it seems that Whitman, Amy Lowell

and the rest could only try and fail

but we in Mrs. Parker’s third-period English class

here at Springfield High will succeed

with the help of these study questions

in saying what the poor poet could not,

and we will get all this done before

that orgy of egg salad and tuna fish known as lunch.

Tonight, however, I am the one trying

to say what it is this absence means,

the two of us sleeping and waking under different roofs.

The image of this vase of cut flowers,

not from our garden, is no help.

And the same goes for the single plate,

the solitary lamp, and the weather that presses its face

against these new windows–the drizzle and the

morning frost.

So I will leave it up to Mrs. Parker,

who is tapping a piece of chalk against the blackboard,

and her students—a few with their hands up,

others slouching with their caps on backwards—

to figure out what it is I am trying to say

about this place where I find myself

and to do it before the noon bell rings

and that whirlwind of meatloaf is unleashed.

“The Effort” by Billy Collins, from Ballistics. © Random House, 2008. Taken from Writer’s Almanac June 29, 2009.

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God was saying... Eat your vegetables, try to get 8 hours of sleep a night, Love your Mom and Dad, Love your kids, Try to be honest, try to be fair... Love your self and your neighbor... oh and take a moment and be thankful for what you do have.

Listen to your Mom and Dad.. they may know a thing or two... Mom's and Dad's Listen to your kids... They know stuff too

and above all be still and know that He is God.

I am sure some one else will come out with a good wise crack but I think that mostly sums it up

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Well, I guess my point is that, by explaining what a verse REALLY meant, it was like saying God was a failure at communicating his true meaning. We, on the other hand, were much more ably equipped to expound on the scripture's true meaning than the author himself.

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Well, I guess my point is that, by explaining what a verse REALLY meant, it was like saying God was a failure at communicating his true meaning. We, on the other hand, were much more ably equipped to expound on the scripture's true meaning than the author himself.

...Thus, the waytree. God was such a failure at dealing with us individually that VP Cornfield had to step in and do the job for him...set up his own chain of command and hierarchy. God's will was delivered this way to each little leaf. Wierwille told us to walk by the spirit but nobody in his organization was allowed to. Not only did Wierwille do a better job of communicating his true meaning but also took his place in specific daily guidence...in other words...VP Cornfield WAS God...

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..in other words...VP Cornfield WAS God...

Perhaps this is the real reason why he wrote, Jesus Christ IS NOT God

OH! That would make vp the usurper - what he always said Lucifer tried to do.

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...Thus, the waytree. God was such a failure at dealing with us individually that VP Cornfield had to step in and do the job for him...set up his own chain of command and hierarchy. God's will was delivered this way to each little leaf. Wierwille told us to walk by the spirit but nobody in his organization was allowed to. Not only did Wierwille do a better job of communicating his true meaning but also took his place in specific daily guidence...in other words...VP Cornfield WAS God...

You may want to check out these books – compiled from numerous Grease Spot threads:

vp is not God

Is PFAL alive now?

vp tells me so

vp our plagiarist

The New Dynamic Cult

Christians should be promiscuous

The vp way: or the highway

Lifestyle of a deceiver

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Yeah that was very funny!

I remember TWI preaching, "God says what he means and means what he says."

It seems like in practice it went,"Let ME tell you what He meant when He said that."

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From a different prespective: TWI, as well as other churches, denominations, gurus and self-help teachers feel that they have to tell us "what God meant", because, taken as a whole it isn't always clear what the author of the bible did mean. There are contradictions, apparent or real and theologians have been trying for centuries (millenia actually) to reconcile these discrepancies. Wierwille wasn't the first one to claim that he had the corner on truth either.

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I like the little children analogy in the poem. Like who are we to say we are big enough to figure it all out? Better than us have gone before.

I like that the same comparison may be found in 1Jn. If it is true that he will care for us as "little children" and we find grace and mercy in His sight, then perhaps we need not be intimidated by the giants of the age.

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Well, I guess my point is that, by explaining what a verse REALLY meant, it was like saying God was a failure at communicating his true meaning. We, on the other hand, were much more ably equipped to expound on the scripture's true meaning than the author himself.

Sorry i got what you were saying I was being a bit sarcastic.

IT is Mankind's Arrogance that is what got us in trouble in the garden of Eden and as your example shows, it is still getting us into trouble today.

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There are contradictions, apparent or real and theologians have been trying for centuries (millenia actually) to reconcile these discrepancies. Wierwille wasn't the first one to claim that he had the corner on truth either.

Life felt a lot more sane when I finally quit trying to make it all fit like a hand in a glove.

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From a different prespective: TWI, as well as other churches, denominations, gurus and self-help teachers feel that they have to tell us "what God meant", because, taken as a whole it isn't always clear what the author of the bible did mean. There are contradictions, apparent or real and theologians have been trying for centuries (millenia actually) to reconcile these discrepancies. Wierwille wasn't the first one to claim that he had the corner on truth either.

Kudos to you for taking the more moderate road here. I suppose I am just mean. I would concur that many religious movements start out with a senior of some sort trying to explain the bible, Q'ran, etc. But it just seems that they all degenerate into a personal control mechanism by the elite.

For all we (with some common experience) complain about TWI, TWI's abuse was amateurish compared to some rather global versions of christianity, islam, and quite a few others.

Nonetheless - I admire your moderate comments.

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It would be absurd, in my view, for God to need explaining if the bible was written by the supreme being, creator of the universe. An alternative is to view the bible as a collection of writings by well meaning people trying to put into words their personal experience with what they call God. No need to make it "fit like a hand in a glove", no need to reconcile contradictions, no need to agonize over why, if it's God's Word, one has trouble understanding it. Just take what works and leave the rest.

Disclaimer: The above is in no way intended to disparage those who do believe that the bible was written by God and is thus infallible :biglaugh:

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It would be absurd, in my view, for God to need explaining if the bible was written by the supreme being, creator of the universe.

Absolutely!!

And it would be likewise absurd for us to think that we were the chosen ones who were uniquely qualified for that task.

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An alternative is to view the bible as a collection of writings by well meaning people trying to put into words their personal experience with what they call God.

Yes.

Not a recipe of something to be cooked, but rather an analysis of that which has already been cooked.

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Part of the problem is trying to define the Almighty..

in my opinion, anyway..

in Geometry and other disciplines.. there are undefined terms. You'd think a system of belief would fall apart with such a thing.. but it really doesn't..

you leave the term "point".. "line".. "set".. etc.. pretty much undefined in the system.. why? Perhaps because somebody can always come up with a better explanation..

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That's why so much of poetry, or other works are timeless..

they left so many terms undefined..

a new generation comes around.. and with a completely different set of problems and conditions say.. "they really meant this.."

:biglaugh:

even the Almighty did that with his own word, if one believes it..

One of the great figures in Bullinger's work was Gnome, or quotation.. the contexts "God's" words were forced into sometimes were entirely different than those in which they were composed.. at least at times..

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Yes.

Not a recipe of something to be cooked, but rather an analysis of that which has already been cooked.

Nicely put

Instead of trying to experience the divine in exactly the same manner that Moses or Paul or even Jesus did, why not look at what they did experience, think "wow, that was cool...I wonder what's in store for me?" and then sit back and enjoy our own transcendent experience?

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While most people agree on the basics of what is right and wrong - God put that in our DNA - we need more than the basics to thrive and have hope. At least I do. Those questions about life and death and eternity keep bugging me.

Though people disagree on interpretation of the Bible, it seems that there is a right way to interpret. And it seems that the Bible answers well allthe big life questions.

The Way, CES, Baptists, and Pentecostalists all bring some truth to the table. I try to trust God and sort the error from truth.

One thing I love to reject is the jaded and decadent and dumb ideas promoted by most mass media and academics in the US.

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Nicely put

Instead of trying to experience the divine in exactly the same manner that Moses or Paul or even Jesus did, why not look at what they did experience, think "wow, that was cool...I wonder what's in store for me?" and then sit back and enjoy our own transcendent experience?

That all sounds so nice, so liberating. But it is kind of anarchist and rebellious, and leads nowhere. Sounds so "Cheech and Chong." Whoa dude, pass that bong and let's see what God has to say...

Edited by caribousam
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