Hard to tell from that video--It could be 1209--when are we gonna have a good witch burning? or a stoning?
If that's the best they can do its no wonder that the church has been a repository for sex crimes ----- a day or two doesnt ever seem to go by without some "revelation' of a well known pastor picking up gay prostitutes, or some unwelcome sexual activity in a church somewhere never mind the stuff that is actually criminal
What goes around comes around
Why dont these people just deal with sexuality like adults?
I guess I am surprised that you are surprised this sort of thing goes on. This is not even the worst of it.
There are plenty of good Christians, and they are probably the majority of Christians. However, there are enough bad ones that we should take things like this seriously. I could totally see something like this happening under LCM's watch if this had been TWI, although it never would have been on video. I doubt many of us would have said anything against it in our TWI days, if that had gone on.
OK... I know this is the Open Forum, but I just have to digress and comment on the flaws here.
WTF is going on with the convulsing and repetitive stuff?
Have they ever even read a Bible? I mean, even someone who doesn't believe the Bible can tell from a cursory reading that Jesus and the 12 didn't cast out demons in this manner? Can you imagine how different the story of the man possessed with Legion would have been if this church had been in charge? They would still be around chanting and singing.
And what's with that lounge music on the piano?
The church who is responsible for this for this video is also the one that posted it. They must be proud of it. I somehow feel it's advertising. All that's needed is a sign:
"We work hard casting out devils so you don't have to!"
I guess I am surprised that you are surprised this sort of thing goes on. This is not even the worst of it.
Heh - no I wasn't surprised P-Mosh - that was my rather cynical and, indeed, poor sense of humor. I've traveled extensively on six continents - not in the tourist sites - and yes that vid is not even the beginning of it. I just couldn't figure out a way to express my disgust without violating every decency rule on GSC
Isn't this were LCM got his FLO training? I think that mighta been CG he was working on. Jesus christmas - I must've been asleep for many years...this is 2009 right?
I don't think I'd put the title "Christian" in the same sentence with this group.
With the noise and shouting, it appears to me that the group is trying to drive a spirit INTO the poor boy, rather than remove one.
This is the natural progression of things when one abandons reason and embraces "faith" and it's related dogma. Not a pretty sight...
While I agree that it's not a pretty sight (horrifying is the adjective I'd use for the treatment of that young man), I disagree that "this is the natural progression of things" or that one must "abandon reason" to embrace faith.
My Christian faith isn't even on the same planet--no, not in the same universe--with behavior like that shown in the video.
We get your point, George. You've made it often enough that my two dogs ought to be able to get it. I think even my cat (she's a little slow) is catching on.
We get your point, George. You've made it often enough that my two dogs ought to be able to get it. I think even my cat (she's a little slow) is catching on.
I kinda wonder if you do. I know as a buhleever sorta guy it seemed the normal response to any view contrary to the orthodoxy was to simply dismiss it out of hand. "Well, he's an unbeliever, so naturally he doesn't understand the greatness of blah, blah, blah..." Without ever really condsidering that view at all. Of course just considering a view not based on some Bible verse is viewed rather dimly in Buhleeverville as well, no matter the brand.
And I would still maintain that actions such as seen in the video are indeed a natural progression from accepting a dogma at face value, without subjecting it to any sort of proof. You simply can't get to that kind of whacked-out behavior without first making a habit of rejecting skepticism if favor of being "faithful"...
We get your point, George. You've made it often enough that my two dogs ought to be able to get it. I think even my cat (she's a little slow) is catching on.
I don't get this sentiment (for lack of a better word) Linda. George is not all that repetitive, although, like all humans repeats on occasion. His repetitiveness is dwarfed by some people whose posts number in the many thousands and could be reduced to a single post - "Oh woe is me. I was abused. My story sucks. Life sucks. I'm still trying to understand breathing and other autonomic nervous functions." Now those are also valid posts - but when it is the (mostly) only thing they post - well that's what the rewind button is for on windoze media player.
Keep posting George - you're honest evaluation of so many things is a lot more fun (and informative) than the "ghost busting."
I see "Johnny Jump Up" posted out there under the newspaper article. LOL. Looks like a church I used to go to! Sorry, but I'm in concurrence with the need for expelling demonic forces if need be, but they should be done by the elders of a church. I posted my own comment on the newspaper article. Whenever the world views the church doing what the Lord mandated it to do, it roils up its ugly head because the world wants to live like it wants to live but gets convicted by what the church is doing.
I kinda wonder if you do. I know as a buhleever sorta guy it seemed the normal response to any view contrary to the orthodoxy was to simply dismiss it out of hand. "Well, he's an unbeliever, so naturally he doesn't understand the greatness of blah, blah, blah..." Without ever really condsidering that view at all. Of course just considering a view not based on some Bible verse is viewed rather dimly in Buhleeverville as well, no matter the brand.
I think one thing we all need to remember when posting here is that, contrary to popular opinion, we didn't all have the mindset you're describing. I did my share of bleating like a sheep on some points of doctrine, for sure, but I never felt compelled to buy everything at face value that twi was selling, nor did I ever feel that non-wayfers didn't know anything or that I couldn't learn from them. I questioned plenty of twi doctrine. I didn't make a big fuss about it; I pretty much kept it to myself or only discussed it with a few close friends, but there was plenty I disagreed with.
And I would still maintain that actions such as seen in the video are indeed a natural progression from accepting a dogma at face value, without subjecting it to any sort of proof. You simply can't get to that kind of whacked-out behavior without first making a habit of rejecting skepticism if favor of being "faithful"...
This time you've added a little more detail to your statement and I understand better what you're saying. However, in my opinion, the proof you refer to is sort of a moot point, isn't it? I can no more "prove" what I believe than you can "prove" that everything I believe is false and vice versa.
What you want to believe or not is your business. You certainly don't answer to me. (Aren't you glad? :) ) I get annoyed, though, when it is stated or implied (IMO repeatedly) that any person of faith has taken complete leave of his or her senses.
I get annoyed, though, when it is stated or implied (IMO repeatedly) that any person of faith has taken complete leave of his or her senses.
Please Linda - oh please - don't tee them up like that for me Linda - it's just too tempting to get out the 5 wood and drive them 350 yards off the tee.
Isn't faith, by definition, not following the senses?
I don't believe using your brain (and your senses) is mutually exclusive with having faith in things that can't be detected by the senses. I believe we get information both through physical means and spiritual means.
George can post his opinions all he wants. And by the same token, I can comment on them when I feel like it as long as I'm civil.
No argument there. As I noted in the earlier post - even the posts I consider repetitive have their validity and the users have the option to post whatever they want within the GSC rules.
If Geo wants to think of me as a drooling dodo who never used a brain cell to examine what I believe, so be it. Like I said, it's usually of no concern to me.
I doubt he thinks that way of you - he is actually one of the more gentlemanly people on this site when it comes to disagreement...however that "drooling dodo" thing - dammmmmmit Linda - don't put candy in front of a child.......
I don't really think the video exemplifies Christian love or charity. They are scary people. That poor kid. But, here is the thing that bothers me the most. He can go to the gay community and he will get love, support and care, BUT he should be able to go to a "Christian" church and get the same. I just don't get it. I really don't.
Hard to believe after watching that, but not all Christians feel the need to call others names. . . . make huge judgments(public or private). . . . . . . . . . . . . . oh. . . . . . . and cast out supposed demons.
I don't really think the video exemplifies Christian love or charity. They are scary people. That poor kid. But, here is the thing that bothers me the most. He can go to the gay community and he will get love, support and care, BUT he should be able to go to a "Christian" church and get the same. I just don't get it. I really don't.
Hard to believe after watching that, but not all Christians feel the need to call others names. . . . make huge judgments(public or private). . . . . . . . . . . . . . oh. . . . . . . and cast out supposed demons.
Good points Geisha - and the churches wonder why young people are fleeing...
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mstar1
Hard to tell from that video--It could be 1209--when are we gonna have a good witch burning? or a stoning?
If that's the best they can do its no wonder that the church has been a repository for sex crimes ----- a day or two doesnt ever seem to go by without some "revelation' of a well known pastor picking up gay prostitutes, or some unwelcome sexual activity in a church somewhere never mind the stuff that is actually criminal
What goes around comes around
Why dont these people just deal with sexuality like adults?
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Mister P-Mosh
I guess I am surprised that you are surprised this sort of thing goes on. This is not even the worst of it.
There are plenty of good Christians, and they are probably the majority of Christians. However, there are enough bad ones that we should take things like this seriously. I could totally see something like this happening under LCM's watch if this had been TWI, although it never would have been on video. I doubt many of us would have said anything against it in our TWI days, if that had gone on.
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doojable
OK... I know this is the Open Forum, but I just have to digress and comment on the flaws here.
WTF is going on with the convulsing and repetitive stuff?
Have they ever even read a Bible? I mean, even someone who doesn't believe the Bible can tell from a cursory reading that Jesus and the 12 didn't cast out demons in this manner? Can you imagine how different the story of the man possessed with Legion would have been if this church had been in charge? They would still be around chanting and singing.
And what's with that lounge music on the piano?
The church who is responsible for this for this video is also the one that posted it. They must be proud of it. I somehow feel it's advertising. All that's needed is a sign:
"We work hard casting out devils so you don't have to!"
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Ham
From your Fox 61 link..
Interesting.. no denomination, they likely have zero accountability. Explains in part to me the unrestrained "nuttiness"..
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mstar1
Good catch Ham...I personally also like the "corner unit in the Indusrieal part of the city" bit too
yup --when I think "Manifested Glory"--Im thinkin "Industrial Park" allrighty
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RumRunner
Heh - no I wasn't surprised P-Mosh - that was my rather cynical and, indeed, poor sense of humor. I've traveled extensively on six continents - not in the tourist sites - and yes that vid is not even the beginning of it. I just couldn't figure out a way to express my disgust without violating every decency rule on GSC
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krys
I don't think I'd put the title "Christian" in the same sentence with this group.
With the noise and shouting, it appears to me that the group is trying to drive a spirit INTO the poor boy, rather than remove one.
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George Aar
This is the natural progression of things when one abandons reason and embraces "faith" and it's related dogma. Not a pretty sight...
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Linda Z
While I agree that it's not a pretty sight (horrifying is the adjective I'd use for the treatment of that young man), I disagree that "this is the natural progression of things" or that one must "abandon reason" to embrace faith.
My Christian faith isn't even on the same planet--no, not in the same universe--with behavior like that shown in the video.
We get your point, George. You've made it often enough that my two dogs ought to be able to get it. I think even my cat (she's a little slow) is catching on.
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George Aar
I kinda wonder if you do. I know as a buhleever sorta guy it seemed the normal response to any view contrary to the orthodoxy was to simply dismiss it out of hand. "Well, he's an unbeliever, so naturally he doesn't understand the greatness of blah, blah, blah..." Without ever really condsidering that view at all. Of course just considering a view not based on some Bible verse is viewed rather dimly in Buhleeverville as well, no matter the brand.
And I would still maintain that actions such as seen in the video are indeed a natural progression from accepting a dogma at face value, without subjecting it to any sort of proof. You simply can't get to that kind of whacked-out behavior without first making a habit of rejecting skepticism if favor of being "faithful"...
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RumRunner
I don't get this sentiment (for lack of a better word) Linda. George is not all that repetitive, although, like all humans repeats on occasion. His repetitiveness is dwarfed by some people whose posts number in the many thousands and could be reduced to a single post - "Oh woe is me. I was abused. My story sucks. Life sucks. I'm still trying to understand breathing and other autonomic nervous functions." Now those are also valid posts - but when it is the (mostly) only thing they post - well that's what the rewind button is for on windoze media player.
Keep posting George - you're honest evaluation of so many things is a lot more fun (and informative) than the "ghost busting."
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brideofjc
I see "Johnny Jump Up" posted out there under the newspaper article. LOL. Looks like a church I used to go to! Sorry, but I'm in concurrence with the need for expelling demonic forces if need be, but they should be done by the elders of a church. I posted my own comment on the newspaper article. Whenever the world views the church doing what the Lord mandated it to do, it roils up its ugly head because the world wants to live like it wants to live but gets convicted by what the church is doing.
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Linda Z
What you want to believe or not is your business. You certainly don't answer to me. (Aren't you glad? :) ) I get annoyed, though, when it is stated or implied (IMO repeatedly) that any person of faith has taken complete leave of his or her senses.
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RumRunner
Please Linda - oh please - don't tee them up like that for me Linda - it's just too tempting to get out the 5 wood and drive them 350 yards off the tee.
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Oakspear
Isn't faith, by definition, not following the senses?
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Linda Z
I don't believe using your brain (and your senses) is mutually exclusive with having faith in things that can't be detected by the senses. I believe we get information both through physical means and spiritual means.
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RumRunner
No argument there. As I noted in the earlier post - even the posts I consider repetitive have their validity and the users have the option to post whatever they want within the GSC rules.
I doubt he thinks that way of you - he is actually one of the more gentlemanly people on this site when it comes to disagreement...however that "drooling dodo" thing - dammmmmmit Linda - don't put candy in front of a child.......
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geisha779
I don't really think the video exemplifies Christian love or charity. They are scary people. That poor kid. But, here is the thing that bothers me the most. He can go to the gay community and he will get love, support and care, BUT he should be able to go to a "Christian" church and get the same. I just don't get it. I really don't.
Hard to believe after watching that, but not all Christians feel the need to call others names. . . . make huge judgments(public or private). . . . . . . . . . . . . . oh. . . . . . . and cast out supposed demons.
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RumRunner
Good points Geisha - and the churches wonder why young people are fleeing...
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waysider
Tell it again
'Til someone hears it
Tell it---again
Come on!---Sing with me!!
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RumRunner
Heh sounds like a cigarette commercial.
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