I just caught up with some friends from Colorado and it seems like some long-time people have unplugged, which makes me happy as can be.
also, M@rk W@ll@ce seems to be as fervently lying to people as he ever has. one of the lies I can't even repeat here, but apparently a corps couple was given one of those punishment kind of "vacations" because they couldn't get a fellowship of non-tithing rebels to toe the line and M@rk put out the word that they were having "family problems" so needed to get their "walk" "right" with God so were "taking some time off". such crap! hey M@rk, remember that couple who left a few years back because they didn't like you lying about people, so you told everyone that they left because they love money more than God? why do you love to lie about people so much?
sadly, a couple sold their home sometime in the last couple of years so they could run one of twi's worthless "fellowships". also, N@ncy H3msl3y is as clueless as ever and the R7d3rs are vile yes-men who spread the same lies that M@rk spews from his filthy mouth.
knowing that people I love have left is a relief. knowing the people who hurt them and me are still up to their old games seems like status quo. keep it up, guys. soon twi will dwindle into nothing.
Seems pretty boring out there and all those pictures of Dr. Fat Rat are just creepy!!
You Tube Camp Gunnison
Seems pretty boring out there and all those pictures of Dr. Fat Rat are just creepy!!
How do you know a politician is lying? His lips are moving. What's completely ironic is that d0uchen0zzle's like W@llfoot are the ones that fit into the culture of TWI by lying their @sses off. They are perceived by the upper echelon as fitting in because lying is how they all function when it suits them. So they are blind to liars because they are liars. They did that Corps couple a favor. Maybe they'll leave, and then TWI will have less volunteers to fire. Actually maybe they'll fire all their volunteers and then there will be no more TWI. They are so stupid that's completely feasible.
I just caught up with some friends from Colorado and it seems like some long-time people have unplugged, which makes me happy as can be.
also, M@rk W@ll@ce seems to be as fervently lying to people as he ever has. one of the lies I can't even repeat here, but apparently a corps couple was given one of those punishment kind of "vacations" because they couldn't get a fellowship of non-tithing rebels to toe the line and M@rk put out the word that they were having "family problems" so needed to get their "walk" "right" with God so were "taking some time off". such crap! hey M@rk, remember that couple who left a few years back because they didn't like you lying about people, so you told everyone that they left because they love money more than God? why do you love to lie about people so much?
sadly, a couple sold their home sometime in the last couple of years so they could run one of twi's worthless "fellowships". also, N@ncy H3msl3y is as clueless as ever and the R7d3rs are vile yes-men who spread the same lies that M@rk spews from his filthy mouth.
knowing that people I love have left is a relief. knowing the people who hurt them and me are still up to their old games seems like status quo. keep it up, guys. soon twi will dwindle into nothing.
Dear Potato,
I know exactly how you feel. I feel the same about the folks left in my former splinter group. And it is clear to me that my former splinter group leadership behavior is simply carrying out the lieing and bullying they learned from TWI leadership.
I remember from my time in TWI that upper leadership sent away lower level leadership from time to time. And whether or not they implied any fault with the lower leadership one thing seems clear to me looking backing, they did not tell anything to us that I would now recognize as truth. Usually the specifics in whatever situation they were sacking them for were left vague. But the praise or poison that they told the rest of us seems now to be the only real clear message of their communication.
I am betting that TWI leadership is so used to the habit of lieing dissimulation that they don't even realize what they are doing. Who knows?...maybe there is hope for them yet.
But I am also certain that some are at the other end of the spectrum and actually enjoy lieing and misleading folks for self-serving reasons. If I was to be very clear as to what I think of these types I would cuss too!
Considering how some people think that TWI has changed I think your post is timely and I am thankful Potato!
_______________________
Dear Cheranne,
It is sad to me that even though I know better now what TWI really is than ever that some folks will be taken in by nice videos like the one you linked us to.
Top leadership, it really was a culture of lies and misinformation, wasn't it?
I think a big reason that I bought it before was simply because my normal tendency is to be trusting. And since I bought into the whole TWI version of how the body of Christ should operate it was easy for me to assume that if they said someone was a bad guy then that person was a bad guy.
But Wierwille carefully crafted a ministry where the top leadership participated in and hid his abuses. So the were taught to ignore or excuse his vile abuses.
I wish that I really knew the character of those who I trusted to judge others in God's name then.
Transparency is a much safer precedent to build than a system where leadership gets vile "perks" for towing the company line and that in secret.
I'm probably dragging this thread down a side rail, but TWI management lying reminds me of LCM teaching the Book of Exodus at a ROA. When he got to the part about the midwives' lying to the Egyptians about the Hebrew male children, LCM said that God told them to lie. I think that was the only time I can remember the whole Big Top going dead silent. Of course, it's patently absurd. God, Who cannot lie, cannot command others to do so. But it wan't long before the "faithful" had "renewed their minds" to "the present truth."
I suppose that leadership assuage their consciences (those that haven't been totally seared, that is) by believing that lying is godly if it is "for the greater good."
I know exactly how you feel. I feel the same about the folks left in my former splinter group. And it is clear to me that my former splinter group leadership behavior is simply carrying out the lieing and bullying they learned from TWI leadership.
I remember from my time in TWI that upper leadership sent away lower level leadership from time to time. And whether or not they implied any fault with the lower leadership one thing seems clear to me looking backing, they did not tell anything to us that I would now recognize as truth. Usually the specifics in whatever situation they were sacking them for were left vague. But the praise or poison that they told the rest of us seems now to be the only real clear message of their communication.
I am betting that TWI leadership is so used to the habit of lieing dissimulation that they don't even realize what they are doing. Who knows?...maybe there is hope for them yet.
But I am also certain that some are at the other end of the spectrum and actually enjoy lieing and misleading folks for self-serving reasons. If I was to be very clear as to what I think of these types I would cuss too!
Considering how some people think that TWI has changed I think your post is timely and I am thankful Potato!
_______________________
Dear Cheranne,
It is sad to me that even though I know better now what TWI really is than ever that some folks will be taken in by nice videos like the one you linked us to.
Yes it IS sad and pityful TWI likes to "appear" to have it all together on the surface UNTIL you start scratching
the surface and it reveals its uglyness! (I would say rusty broken cisterns eroded with LIES)
I always loved Way Productions when they came to cities and played like in the fancy Hotels (like the revolving
top of a place in Phoenix)it seem very nice and flawless.
Like take a stand caravan...etc.....herding the people to the "pfal biblical slaughter house" of spiritual destruction!
I'm probably dragging this thread down a side rail, but TWI management lying reminds me of LCM teaching the Book of Exodus at a ROA. When he got to the part about the midwives' lying to the Egyptians about the Hebrew male children, LCM said that God told them to lie. I think that was the only time I can remember the whole Big Top going dead silent. Of course, it's patently absurd. God, Who cannot lie, cannot command others to do so. But it wan't long before the "faithful" had "renewed their minds" to "the present truth."
I suppose that leadership assuage their consciences (those that haven't been totally seared, that is) by believing that lying is godly if it is "for the greater good."
George
I guess it is up to Potato to say if it is a side rail or not George, but until she says so I'm willing to proceed.
I've seen it where the leadership shows their true colors by how they handle the scriptures too. That has turned into somewhat of a major league pet peeve for me. And you know what is ironic, the first time that I heard anyone share about that tendency of teachers and preachers was in PFAL.
My former splinter group leader thinks that when Paul told the church that he "espoused them to one man" that Paul was referring to himself and not to Christ....OMG...give me the right to actually do something about it...AARRGH. That is o.k. I expect "THE MAN" (No theology, just as commonly stated..you know...the man.) HIMSELF will make it clear someday.
I guess it is up to Potato to say if it is a side rail or not George, but until she says so I'm willing to proceed.
I've seen it where the leadership shows their true colors by how they handle the scriptures too. That has turned into somewhat of a major league pet peeve for me. And you know what is ironic, the first time that I heard anyone share about that tendency of teachers and preachers was in PFAL.
My former splinter group leader thinks that when Paul told the church that he "espoused them to one man" that Paul was referring to himself and not to Christ....OMG...give me the right to actually do something about it...AARRGH. That is o.k. I expect "THE MAN" (No theology, just as commonly stated..you know...the man.) HIMSELF will make it clear someday.
My latest TC used to spend most of the week checking what was taught on SNS. And I mean checking.....as if he was grading a paper. Every greek word was researched, he even went so far as to check the interlinear. I'm sure there are things he may have missed because he was not thoroughly versed in "research principles" but he really wanted to make sure what they were putting out was right.
I can't remember it now, but there were quite a few things we heard on the tape that never showed up again in our trachings.
I'm probably dragging this thread down a side rail, but TWI management lying reminds me of LCM teaching the Book of Exodus at a ROA. When he got to the part about the midwives' lying to the Egyptians about the Hebrew male children, LCM said that God told them to lie. I think that was the only time I can remember the whole Big Top going dead silent. Of course, it's patently absurd. God, Who cannot lie, cannot command others to do so. But it wan't long before the "faithful" had "renewed their minds" to "the present truth."
I suppose that leadership assuage their consciences (those that haven't been totally seared, that is) by believing that lying is godly if it is "for the greater good."
George
not really a side rail, since I did rant on about a few things and M. W@l@ce's tendency to lie was right up there.
I also remember that "teaching", and it became very much part of everyday life. "it's ok to lie to unbelievers to protect yourself or the ministry" was doctrine. I guess M@rk and a lot of others have put it into practice as "it's ok to lie to everyone to make yourself and the ministry look good".
Yeah, lying is the best way to put your best foot forward in a Christian organization.
The W@ll@ces make it a practice of lying or witholding the truth whenever it serves their purposes. J0:)sephine remained silent in a meeting when M@rk made an accusation against me she knew to be false. However, for her to contradict him in this meeting would have exposed a serious communication flaw between them, so despite me staring at her and waiting for her to speak up, she refused to look at me and remained silent while her husband's false accusations flew.
So typical of their behavior. So typical of TWI. Yeah, real quality folks doing a quality job for their god.
not really a side rail, since I did rant on about a few things and M. W@l@ce's tendency to lie was right up there.
I also remember that "teaching", and it became very much part of everyday life. "it's ok to lie to unbelievers to protect yourself or the ministry" was doctrine. I guess M@rk and a lot of others have put it into practice as "it's ok to lie to everyone to make yourself and the ministry look good".
I think the practice started long before LCM's rant under the big top.
BTW - I sat across the table from L(nder at lunch one day, when I was in-rez. He talked about the subject of his research paper, which had to do with the subject of lying. Something to the effect of when a lie wasn't really so bad because it was condoned by gawd. IIRC - he used the example of Abraham telling the king that Sara was his sister.
My latest TC used to spend most of the week checking what was taught on SNS. And I mean checking.....as if he was grading a paper. Every greek word was researched, he even went so far as to check the interlinear. I'm sure there are things he may have missed because he was not thoroughly versed in "research principles" but he really wanted to make sure what they were putting out was right.
I can't remember it now, but there were quite a few things we heard on the tape that never showed up again in our trachings.
Dear Krys,
Now this represents the big catch in this topic. It seems obvious to me that there must have been folks that were doing their best with the bible and folks' lives.
But the culture of lies that top leadership has built on the downlow makes remaining true a very hard task. And the TWI leaven that is exposed so well here at the Greasespot is nasty. Even though it is simple for me to say that top leadership was corrupt I also remember that the kind of young man that I was makes it very possible that I might have been taken in too.
So even though much seems clearer to me now, there is still the possibility of someone turning away from TWI leaven. One story in particular since I came here is how one poster was kicked out of TWI when he refused to go along with Martindale's attempt to get him involved with the rampant sexual abuse. And God only knows how much this person might have seen and/or ignored before he rejected the abuse. I am thankful he did reject it though.
But then there is the whole TWI pattern that only leadership is mature enough to tell you who the good guys and the bad guys are. And true to human nature throughout the centuries, absolute power corrupts absolutely. And even though someone has made a step out of TWI there is still a whole host of issues and thinking patterns to be dealt with.
Lord have mercy!
(added to try to bring it back on track)
Yeah I think along with potato that if all or any part of TWI fades away it will be for the best. The culture of lies that TWI built is just nasty while being deceptively loving. I would like to say good riddance once and for all.
I am one of the people who came through TWI, and who am I to desire that any one person should be thrown on God's garbage fire? Regarding the organization of TWI though, I can almost smell the burnt weiners already.
The W@ll@ces make it a practice of lying or witholding the truth whenever it serves their purposes. J0:)sephine remained silent in a meeting when M@rk made an accusation against me she knew to be false. However, for her to contradict him in this meeting would have exposed a serious communication flaw between them, so despite me staring at her and waiting for her to speak up, she refused to look at me and remained silent while her husband's false accusations flew.
So typical of their behavior. So typical of TWI. Yeah, real quality folks doing a quality job for their god.
that seemed to be typical of the behavior expected of wives. we were supposed to hold it in until AFTER the meeting. our submission was more important than the truth. the public image of our man was more important than protecting the innocent from false accusations.
Jo$ephine, you should be ashamed of yourself. you could leave, you know that, and do something worthwhile with your life. M@rk, someday you'll pay dearly for the lies you tell. lying is bad. didn't you get that memo, the one from God? or were you out to lunch when it was passed around?
M@rk, someday you'll pay dearly for the lies you tell. lying is bad. didn't you get that memo, the one from God? or were you out to lunch when it was passed around?
OMG....LOL...faling over now...whoo hooooo
Watch it Tater!
Doubtlessly Mr. Wallace has a whole slew of nasty tricks up his sleave to bully you into silence...
I'm probably dragging this thread down a side rail, but TWI management lying reminds me of LCM teaching the Book of Exodus at a ROA. When he got to the part about the midwives' lying to the Egyptians about the Hebrew male children, LCM said that God told them to lie. I think that was the only time I can remember the whole Big Top going dead silent. Of course, it's patently absurd. God, Who cannot lie, cannot command others to do so. But it wan't long before the "faithful" had "renewed their minds" to "the present truth."
I suppose that leadership assuage their consciences (those that haven't been totally seared, that is) by believing that lying is godly if it is "for the greater good."
George
I heard a similar teaching in FLO,(ie:justification for a seemingly unBiblical practice) regarding an incident that is not found in The Bible. It involves a mass suicide, in the era of the OT, to prevent capture. Anyone recall this one?
I heard a similar teaching in FLO,(ie:justification for a seemingly unBiblical practice) regarding an incident that is not found in The Bible. It involves a mass suicide, in the era of the OT, to prevent capture. Anyone recall this one?
Doubtlessly Mr. Wallace has a whole slew of nasty tricks up his sleave to bully you into silence...
LOL...falling over...whoo hooooo
(((takes a bow)))
I wish I could post the ones I know about in detail, I truly do, because they're amazing. I just don't want the attention and I don't want it on my friends. I'm more concerned about the impact on them.
I heard a similar teaching in FLO,(ie:justification for a seemingly unBiblical practice) regarding an incident that is not found in The Bible. It involves a mass suicide, in the era of the OT, to prevent capture. Anyone recall this one?
Yeah, but it was around 73 AD after the fall of Jerusalem. Been there a couple of times. It is a marvel of engineering from how to get up there to how they brought water in from the west (as it's right next to the Dead Sea). The Jewish people in Israel believe that the suicide was heroic because the people avoided capture, torture, and rape. It is believed that 1 or 2 people might have been alive.
Recommended Posts
cheranne
Seems pretty boring out there and all those pictures of Dr. Fat Rat are just creepy!!
You Tube Camp Gunnison
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
How do you know a politician is lying? His lips are moving. What's completely ironic is that d0uchen0zzle's like W@llfoot are the ones that fit into the culture of TWI by lying their @sses off. They are perceived by the upper echelon as fitting in because lying is how they all function when it suits them. So they are blind to liars because they are liars. They did that Corps couple a favor. Maybe they'll leave, and then TWI will have less volunteers to fire. Actually maybe they'll fire all their volunteers and then there will be no more TWI. They are so stupid that's completely feasible.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Dear Potato,
I know exactly how you feel. I feel the same about the folks left in my former splinter group. And it is clear to me that my former splinter group leadership behavior is simply carrying out the lieing and bullying they learned from TWI leadership.
I remember from my time in TWI that upper leadership sent away lower level leadership from time to time. And whether or not they implied any fault with the lower leadership one thing seems clear to me looking backing, they did not tell anything to us that I would now recognize as truth. Usually the specifics in whatever situation they were sacking them for were left vague. But the praise or poison that they told the rest of us seems now to be the only real clear message of their communication.
I am betting that TWI leadership is so used to the habit of lieing dissimulation that they don't even realize what they are doing. Who knows?...maybe there is hope for them yet.
But I am also certain that some are at the other end of the spectrum and actually enjoy lieing and misleading folks for self-serving reasons. If I was to be very clear as to what I think of these types I would cuss too!
Considering how some people think that TWI has changed I think your post is timely and I am thankful Potato!
_______________________
Dear Cheranne,
It is sad to me that even though I know better now what TWI really is than ever that some folks will be taken in by nice videos like the one you linked us to.
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Dear Tater,
Top leadership, it really was a culture of lies and misinformation, wasn't it?
I think a big reason that I bought it before was simply because my normal tendency is to be trusting. And since I bought into the whole TWI version of how the body of Christ should operate it was easy for me to assume that if they said someone was a bad guy then that person was a bad guy.
But Wierwille carefully crafted a ministry where the top leadership participated in and hid his abuses. So the were taught to ignore or excuse his vile abuses.
I wish that I really knew the character of those who I trusted to judge others in God's name then.
Transparency is a much safer precedent to build than a system where leadership gets vile "perks" for towing the company line and that in secret.
(edited for grammar)
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
GeorgeStGeorge
I'm probably dragging this thread down a side rail, but TWI management lying reminds me of LCM teaching the Book of Exodus at a ROA. When he got to the part about the midwives' lying to the Egyptians about the Hebrew male children, LCM said that God told them to lie. I think that was the only time I can remember the whole Big Top going dead silent. Of course, it's patently absurd. God, Who cannot lie, cannot command others to do so. But it wan't long before the "faithful" had "renewed their minds" to "the present truth."
I suppose that leadership assuage their consciences (those that haven't been totally seared, that is) by believing that lying is godly if it is "for the greater good."
George
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cheranne
Yes it IS sad and pityful TWI likes to "appear" to have it all together on the surface UNTIL you start scratching
the surface and it reveals its uglyness! (I would say rusty broken cisterns eroded with LIES)
I always loved Way Productions when they came to cities and played like in the fancy Hotels (like the revolving
top of a place in Phoenix)it seem very nice and flawless.
Like take a stand caravan...etc.....herding the people to the "pfal biblical slaughter house" of spiritual destruction!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
Ah yes...Room 101 in the Ministry of Love...How many fingers am I holding up George? Do it to Julia!!!!!
Edited by RumRunnerLink to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
I guess it is up to Potato to say if it is a side rail or not George, but until she says so I'm willing to proceed.
I've seen it where the leadership shows their true colors by how they handle the scriptures too. That has turned into somewhat of a major league pet peeve for me. And you know what is ironic, the first time that I heard anyone share about that tendency of teachers and preachers was in PFAL.
My former splinter group leader thinks that when Paul told the church that he "espoused them to one man" that Paul was referring to himself and not to Christ....OMG...give me the right to actually do something about it...AARRGH. That is o.k. I expect "THE MAN" (No theology, just as commonly stated..you know...the man.) HIMSELF will make it clear someday.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rejoice
When I was in TWI, we were "on fire" and excited about knowing Jesus. We were "walking and leaping and praising God" all the time.
Honestly, that video showed the most emotionless, lackluster, disinterested group of people i've ever seen.
This was a tour about VPW, the grounds, the taxidermy---where is the passion, the excitement of just being alive?
Also, the decor was well appointed but has such a sterile feeling. Just like TWI.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
My latest TC used to spend most of the week checking what was taught on SNS. And I mean checking.....as if he was grading a paper. Every greek word was researched, he even went so far as to check the interlinear. I'm sure there are things he may have missed because he was not thoroughly versed in "research principles" but he really wanted to make sure what they were putting out was right.
I can't remember it now, but there were quite a few things we heard on the tape that never showed up again in our trachings.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
not really a side rail, since I did rant on about a few things and M. W@l@ce's tendency to lie was right up there.
I also remember that "teaching", and it became very much part of everyday life. "it's ok to lie to unbelievers to protect yourself or the ministry" was doctrine. I guess M@rk and a lot of others have put it into practice as "it's ok to lie to everyone to make yourself and the ministry look good".
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tzaia
Yeah, lying is the best way to put your best foot forward in a Christian organization.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Catcup
The W@ll@ces make it a practice of lying or witholding the truth whenever it serves their purposes. J0:)sephine remained silent in a meeting when M@rk made an accusation against me she knew to be false. However, for her to contradict him in this meeting would have exposed a serious communication flaw between them, so despite me staring at her and waiting for her to speak up, she refused to look at me and remained silent while her husband's false accusations flew.
So typical of their behavior. So typical of TWI. Yeah, real quality folks doing a quality job for their god.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
I think the practice started long before LCM's rant under the big top.
BTW - I sat across the table from L(nder at lunch one day, when I was in-rez. He talked about the subject of his research paper, which had to do with the subject of lying. Something to the effect of when a lie wasn't really so bad because it was condoned by gawd. IIRC - he used the example of Abraham telling the king that Sara was his sister.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Dear Krys,
Now this represents the big catch in this topic. It seems obvious to me that there must have been folks that were doing their best with the bible and folks' lives.
But the culture of lies that top leadership has built on the downlow makes remaining true a very hard task. And the TWI leaven that is exposed so well here at the Greasespot is nasty. Even though it is simple for me to say that top leadership was corrupt I also remember that the kind of young man that I was makes it very possible that I might have been taken in too.
So even though much seems clearer to me now, there is still the possibility of someone turning away from TWI leaven. One story in particular since I came here is how one poster was kicked out of TWI when he refused to go along with Martindale's attempt to get him involved with the rampant sexual abuse. And God only knows how much this person might have seen and/or ignored before he rejected the abuse. I am thankful he did reject it though.
But then there is the whole TWI pattern that only leadership is mature enough to tell you who the good guys and the bad guys are. And true to human nature throughout the centuries, absolute power corrupts absolutely. And even though someone has made a step out of TWI there is still a whole host of issues and thinking patterns to be dealt with.
Lord have mercy!
(added to try to bring it back on track)
Yeah I think along with potato that if all or any part of TWI fades away it will be for the best. The culture of lies that TWI built is just nasty while being deceptively loving. I would like to say good riddance once and for all.
I am one of the people who came through TWI, and who am I to desire that any one person should be thrown on God's garbage fire? Regarding the organization of TWI though, I can almost smell the burnt weiners already.
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
potato
that seemed to be typical of the behavior expected of wives. we were supposed to hold it in until AFTER the meeting. our submission was more important than the truth. the public image of our man was more important than protecting the innocent from false accusations.
Jo$ephine, you should be ashamed of yourself. you could leave, you know that, and do something worthwhile with your life. M@rk, someday you'll pay dearly for the lies you tell. lying is bad. didn't you get that memo, the one from God? or were you out to lunch when it was passed around?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
OMG....LOL...faling over now...whoo hooooo
Watch it Tater!
Doubtlessly Mr. Wallace has a whole slew of nasty tricks up his sleave to bully you into silence...
LOL...falling over...whoo hooooo
Link to comment
Share on other sites
frank123lol
Mark wa22ace,You are a smuck,Since when is lying acceptable?Do your research,in the old t it was probably some kind idiom
God is not a liar duh,Remember if it aint true to fact it is a figure?In your case go figure.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I just wonder what he is going to do, or even can do for a living when they put him out..
maybe like harve.. he'll try to convince some collection agency he has experience being an a***hole..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I heard a similar teaching in FLO,(ie:justification for a seemingly unBiblical practice) regarding an incident that is not found in The Bible. It involves a mass suicide, in the era of the OT, to prevent capture. Anyone recall this one?
MASADA
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Walter's DwtA class covered Masada.
I never saw any reason for it to COVER Masada, but it did.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Yeah, maybe that's where I heard it first.
It all kinda blends together after a while.
But, then it was also taught on a FLO night by Howie Y in 1975 or 1976.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
(((takes a bow)))
I wish I could post the ones I know about in detail, I truly do, because they're amazing. I just don't want the attention and I don't want it on my friends. I'm more concerned about the impact on them.
someday I'll write my memoirs, though :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tzaia
Yeah, but it was around 73 AD after the fall of Jerusalem. Been there a couple of times. It is a marvel of engineering from how to get up there to how they brought water in from the west (as it's right next to the Dead Sea). The Jewish people in Israel believe that the suicide was heroic because the people avoided capture, torture, and rape. It is believed that 1 or 2 people might have been alive.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.