Nice Skyryder - just get me going about the full-on child abuse of that completely fukulated organization. In fact, just get me going about kids. At my age I'm supposed to watch my blood pressure and such and to me there is nothing more holy than my children...nothing. If you want a reasonable idea of how I feel about my kids without me writing a tome - go read socks' post ( I can't remember the thread ) where he talked about white water kayaking with his son - and goes on about his philosophy on kids. That's about where I am at about my kids as well.
I propose that if wooden spoons were prescribed for children then a large and heavy crowbar be prescribed for those complete anal sphincters like moneyhands and anyone else who thinks a wooden spoon is a good solution for children. You know - that light little snapping sound of the wooden spoon wielded by the parent - or someone completely unrelated to the child? Wouldn't the heavy sound of a cracking skull from a crow bar on those abusers be much more satisfying?!?!
Nice Skyryder - just get me going about the full-on child abuse of that completely fukulated organization. In fact, just get me going about kids. At my age I'm supposed to watch my blood pressure and such and to me there is nothing more holy than my children...nothing. If you want a reasonable of how I fell about my kids without me writing a tome - go read socks' post ( I can't remember the thread ) where he talked about white water kayaking with his son - and goes on about his philosophy on kids. That's about where I am at about my kids as well.
RumRunner......sorry to bring up a sore spot with ya. :)
I know.......I seriously doubt that I could have made it thru Family Corps with seeing other adults smack my kids in the hallways or such. Clearly, the stories of the Rome City campus curl my blood.........but in all the exposing of wierwille and co. it only affirms the ongoing authoritarian figurehead and the henchmen who followed his lead.
Thankfully, I went regular corps......and kept my kids at a safe distance from any of those abusers.
One of my biggest regrets in life was allowing the twi machinery of classes and droning of meetings keep me from quality time with my kids........ie. baseball games, camping trips, school events, etc. Thankfully, my wife and I safeguarded excessive "abandonment" and did squeeze in plenty of special times and outings. But I can easily see, in hindsight, how the twi upper guys frowned on TOO MUCH QUALITY FAMILY TIME, because it ran at cross-purposes with "moving the word" and shining their image of leadership.
Yeah, look at ALL "upper leadership" that had NO KIDS...........starting with ermal and dorothy owxns. And, how many region couples had NO KIDS............or only one? Yet, they supposedly had cornered the market on child-rearing and all. Yeah, riiiiiight. Sheeeesh.
Then.............when you finally realize that your kids want NOTHING to do with twi when they reach adulthood, isn't that a clue to its lackluster impact? Even kids see the indoctrination and hypocrisy.
And, now...............Rosalie sits at the top. And where are her two boys????
Then.............when you finally realize that your kids want NOTHING to do with twi when they reach adulthood, isn't that a clue to its lackluster impact? Even kids see the indoctrination and hypocrisy.
And, now...............Rosalie sits at the top. And where are her two boys????
Heh heh - what my daughter has posted on her facebook account - right up front for everyone to read. She has impeccable taste...
Whereas I do not disagree that child-rearing in TWI was a problem, I think that defining any test you know TWI will fail as "the litmus test" is a bit dishonest. It would be like saying the "true. litmus test" of a healthy, viable state is that it has no state income tax. Oops, too bad, NY, MA, CA, etc. Oh look! I live in TX!
As twi sees it, all resources are to be directed towards twi and ONLY twi.
Children need attention, money, education, and so on- resources that twi can't get because
a human being is getting them.
And watch out..........if there ever comes a time when your family commitments and/or family vacations interrupt the flow of twi's schedule, then YOU are labeled as "putting your kids ahead of God." Or, worse........"worshipping your kids."
And watch out..........if there ever comes a time when your family commitments and/or family vacations interrupt the flow of twi's schedule, then YOU are labeled as "putting your kids ahead of God." Or, worse........"worshipping your kids."
If god is almighty then he doesn't need me for his self-esteem so I feel quite free to put my kids ahead of god. They needed me growing up - god did not. So do the arithmetic - kids first, god a distant second. I'm sure it/he/she will get by just fine.
If god is almighty then he doesn't need me for his self-esteem so I feel quite free to put my kids ahead of god. They needed me growing up - god did not. So do the arithmetic - kids first, god a distant second. I'm sure it/he/she will get by just fine.
And what about this?
1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
What a great subject and thanks everone for sheding some light and perspective on this.
The trouble always was that VP spouted that the order was God First then your spouse then your kids
and in his rendition God first meant the Ministry.
I find it interesting that God's order is God first by making sure your family is taken care of.
and no where in the word does it say god first means TWI first.
And VP could no more be a good example as a father since he had no clue how to do it and never bothered to figure out how to do it. The best example of a man of God and Father I have ever run into in my life is my father in law... I thank God for him every day of my life... with out him and his wife I never would have known the proper way to be a family... Certainly not from what TWI taught.
Thank God I did not have children until my departure from the way in 1985. My impression was that many of the children of "waybots" were embarrassed by their parents schizophrenic communal lifestyle. There was no sanctuary for these children to be raised in an environment where parents could raise their own children without interference from some overzealous self appointed higher authority on child rearing. I recall seeing the higher ups kids getting away with bloody murder, while the lower rung kids suffering the wrath of the same way despots who thought their kids did no wrong. It is not surprising that many of these kids "ran for the door" as soon as they were old enough to do so. Justice for those serving up this type of abuse would be to get the wooden spoon for all eternity.
What a great subject and thanks everone for sheding some light and perspective on this.
The trouble always was that VP spouted that the order was God First then your spouse then your kids
and in his rendition God first meant the Ministry.
I find it interesting that God's order is God first by making sure your family is taken care of.
and no where in the word does it say god first means TWI first.
And VP could no more be a good example as a father since he had no clue how to do it and never bothered to figure out how to do it. The best example of a man of God and Father I have ever run into in my life is my father in law... I thank God for him every day of my life... with out him and his wife I never would have known the proper way to be a family... Certainly not from what TWI taught.
Didn't twi's slogan used to be..........God first, others second and I am willing to be third...........???
The trouble always was that VP spouted that the order was God First then your spouse then your kids
and in his rendition God first meant the Ministry.
Didn't twi's slogan used to be..........God first, others second and I am willing to be third...........???
Skyrider is correct - however later on Dorothea started teaching this corps class called something like "how to be a christian wife" or some such thing where she taught it was god first, then yourself (because you couldn't do anything for family if you were not taken care of), your spouse, your children, others.
In either case (or any case where TWI "taught" anything about parenting) the children came out on the losing side of parental attention, love, schooling, nurturing, etc etc.
The trouble always was that VP spouted that the order was God First then your spouse then your kids
I could be mistaken (on account of I'm an old guy now and my memory ain't what it used to be) but I seem to recall that particular version being part of CF&S.
Looking back...Twi's treatment of children can be described by a phrase used by Frank Zappa..."A sinister form of toilet training"
Children were mentally, physically and emotionally abused...Being pushed into a box of "way think" at an early stage is insideous and destructive in my opinion....being raised in twi borders on criminal behavior...at the very least, immoral.
I have a friend that grew up in TWI. Before I knew that, she told me that she endured more pain than 5 people should ever endured. At the time I had no idea what she meant. From what she told me (and she was very vague) about her pain. As she told me, my thoughts were that she was "abused". I took it as physical. I never really thought about the abusive "childhood" that she went through. I could sense her emptiness and aloneness.
My eyes shed a tear for her often. I think it's hard for her to understand that I'm just trying to support her. I can't imagine how hard of a life she has had. since her parents were in it and she grew up in it. It must be hard also because if she choose to make some changes as an adult, she puts at risk her family. It has to be hard.
I have a friend that grew up in TWI. Before I knew that, she told me that she endured more pain than 5 people should ever endured. At the time I had no idea what she meant. From what she told me (and she was very vague) about her pain. As she told me, my thoughts were that she was "abused". I took it as physical. I never really thought about the abusive "childhood" that she went through. I could sense her emptiness and aloneness.
My eyes shed a tear for her often. I think it's hard for her to understand that I'm just trying to support her. I can't imagine how hard of a life she has had. since her parents were in it and she grew up in it. It must be hard also because if she choose to make some changes as an adult, she puts at risk her family. It has to be hard.
On so many levels............twi-cult life is just regimented boredom and hypocrisy.
In hindsight, I tend to see how this poverty level lends itself to all sorts of emotional abuse..........few friends, wayfer-hypocrisy zone, no music lessons, few school events, always sitting in twig meetings or "babysat" during classes, once turned 12 then expected to sit in class, always on the threshold of being reproved, very little freedom for childlike fun, etc. etc. etc.
What about when the twi-teenager turns 16? A car to drive? Movies? Dating? Video games? Cell phone? School sports and events? In running to every twi activity for 15-20 years.........few twi parents had any extra money for their kids. Just scraping by for so many.
When our kids were small but in primary grades they recieved a year,s end reward--tickets to an amusement park--for good behavior and good grades. The tickets were for the same time as HHF, so we reported our plans to not be there but take the kids to the park. Our HFC was adamant about us going to HHF instead.
Can you imagine telling three little kids they couldn't have their reward because we needed to get to HHF? Other kids from the school were there at the same time, it was like a party.We went to the amusement park and had rides, cotton candy, the whole deal. That night hubby and I drank a six pack of beer and had the first really long talk about TWI we'd ever had, and a few months later we left.
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doojable
And let's not forget what a stunning example of the perfect dad der victoid was.
I'm glad my kids never had to be a part of that.
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Twinky
Ah well. They didn't agree with "suffer [permit] little children"
Their motto was "Suffer! Little children!!"
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RumRunner
I'm so glad that my kids were born after I left.
Nice Skyryder - just get me going about the full-on child abuse of that completely fukulated organization. In fact, just get me going about kids. At my age I'm supposed to watch my blood pressure and such and to me there is nothing more holy than my children...nothing. If you want a reasonable idea of how I feel about my kids without me writing a tome - go read socks' post ( I can't remember the thread ) where he talked about white water kayaking with his son - and goes on about his philosophy on kids. That's about where I am at about my kids as well.
I propose that if wooden spoons were prescribed for children then a large and heavy crowbar be prescribed for those complete anal sphincters like moneyhands and anyone else who thinks a wooden spoon is a good solution for children. You know - that light little snapping sound of the wooden spoon wielded by the parent - or someone completely unrelated to the child? Wouldn't the heavy sound of a cracking skull from a crow bar on those abusers be much more satisfying?!?!
Edited by RumRunnerLink to comment
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skyrider
RumRunner......sorry to bring up a sore spot with ya. :)
I know.......I seriously doubt that I could have made it thru Family Corps with seeing other adults smack my kids in the hallways or such. Clearly, the stories of the Rome City campus curl my blood.........but in all the exposing of wierwille and co. it only affirms the ongoing authoritarian figurehead and the henchmen who followed his lead.
Thankfully, I went regular corps......and kept my kids at a safe distance from any of those abusers.
One of my biggest regrets in life was allowing the twi machinery of classes and droning of meetings keep me from quality time with my kids........ie. baseball games, camping trips, school events, etc. Thankfully, my wife and I safeguarded excessive "abandonment" and did squeeze in plenty of special times and outings. But I can easily see, in hindsight, how the twi upper guys frowned on TOO MUCH QUALITY FAMILY TIME, because it ran at cross-purposes with "moving the word" and shining their image of leadership.
Yeah, look at ALL "upper leadership" that had NO KIDS...........starting with ermal and dorothy owxns. And, how many region couples had NO KIDS............or only one? Yet, they supposedly had cornered the market on child-rearing and all. Yeah, riiiiiight. Sheeeesh.
Then.............when you finally realize that your kids want NOTHING to do with twi when they reach adulthood, isn't that a clue to its lackluster impact? Even kids see the indoctrination and hypocrisy.
And, now...............Rosalie sits at the top. And where are her two boys????
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RumRunner
Heh heh - what my daughter has posted on her facebook account - right up front for everyone to read. She has impeccable taste...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNy6ziOyxoA
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GeorgeStGeorge
Whereas I do not disagree that child-rearing in TWI was a problem, I think that defining any test you know TWI will fail as "the litmus test" is a bit dishonest. It would be like saying the "true. litmus test" of a healthy, viable state is that it has no state income tax. Oops, too bad, NY, MA, CA, etc. Oh look! I live in TX!
George
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WordWolf
As twi sees it, all resources are to be directed towards twi and ONLY twi.
Children need attention, money, education, and so on- resources that twi can't get because
a human being is getting them.
twi didn't like children- children consume resources.
Therefore, twi never really had a plan for DEALING with children.
A plan was slapped together patchwork for things like Family Corps and Family WOW,
and it was centered around twi being the unquestioned authority.
Thus, twi was to be obeyed the first time by children, and struck if they disobeyed.
Children were to be quiet during meetings, and never inconvenience twi meetings.
Thus, they were to be warehoused in separate meetings, hit if they don't conform,
and otherwise expected to be still and quiet in adult meetings of infinite length.
Sounds like an exaggeration? It SOUNDS like that, but we've had posters say their
kids suffered that-or they were the ones that suffered through it.
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skyrider
And watch out..........if there ever comes a time when your family commitments and/or family vacations interrupt the flow of twi's schedule, then YOU are labeled as "putting your kids ahead of God." Or, worse........"worshipping your kids."
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cheranne
Poor kids! It is one thing for the wiring in an adult head to be messed up with but a Child!
Read anything by "The Writing Machine" .
Glad my kids were born after I got out too!
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RumRunner
If god is almighty then he doesn't need me for his self-esteem so I feel quite free to put my kids ahead of god. They needed me growing up - god did not. So do the arithmetic - kids first, god a distant second. I'm sure it/he/she will get by just fine.
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skyrider
And what about this?
1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
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leafytwiglet
What a great subject and thanks everone for sheding some light and perspective on this.
The trouble always was that VP spouted that the order was God First then your spouse then your kids
and in his rendition God first meant the Ministry.
I find it interesting that God's order is God first by making sure your family is taken care of.
and no where in the word does it say god first means TWI first.
And VP could no more be a good example as a father since he had no clue how to do it and never bothered to figure out how to do it. The best example of a man of God and Father I have ever run into in my life is my father in law... I thank God for him every day of my life... with out him and his wife I never would have known the proper way to be a family... Certainly not from what TWI taught.
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Calflor
Thank God I did not have children until my departure from the way in 1985. My impression was that many of the children of "waybots" were embarrassed by their parents schizophrenic communal lifestyle. There was no sanctuary for these children to be raised in an environment where parents could raise their own children without interference from some overzealous self appointed higher authority on child rearing. I recall seeing the higher ups kids getting away with bloody murder, while the lower rung kids suffering the wrath of the same way despots who thought their kids did no wrong. It is not surprising that many of these kids "ran for the door" as soon as they were old enough to do so. Justice for those serving up this type of abuse would be to get the wooden spoon for all eternity.
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skyrider
Didn't twi's slogan used to be..........God first, others second and I am willing to be third...........???
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RumRunner
Skyrider is correct - however later on Dorothea started teaching this corps class called something like "how to be a christian wife" or some such thing where she taught it was god first, then yourself (because you couldn't do anything for family if you were not taken care of), your spouse, your children, others.
In either case (or any case where TWI "taught" anything about parenting) the children came out on the losing side of parental attention, love, schooling, nurturing, etc etc.
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waysider
I could be mistaken (on account of I'm an old guy now and my memory ain't what it used to be) but I seem to recall that particular version being part of CF&S.
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excathedra
wtf was it
god first
others second
i am willing to be third
yeah right, veeper, you were third
oh and since i'm the most redundantly boring person here
when i asked him for advice on raising a child, he recommended the book "hunt close" for training DOGS
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excathedra
sorry i have to read the thread more
hey skyrider
that was HIS kid. i'm not sure what i make of that, just saying
love you, friend
also IF you are putting GOD FIRST, then your kids are you whole frikkin FIRST
thank you
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GrouchoMarxJr
Looking back...Twi's treatment of children can be described by a phrase used by Frank Zappa..."A sinister form of toilet training"
Children were mentally, physically and emotionally abused...Being pushed into a box of "way think" at an early stage is insideous and destructive in my opinion....being raised in twi borders on criminal behavior...at the very least, immoral.
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cheranne
or Benatars "Hell is for Children"
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bucks4now
I have a friend that grew up in TWI. Before I knew that, she told me that she endured more pain than 5 people should ever endured. At the time I had no idea what she meant. From what she told me (and she was very vague) about her pain. As she told me, my thoughts were that she was "abused". I took it as physical. I never really thought about the abusive "childhood" that she went through. I could sense her emptiness and aloneness.
My eyes shed a tear for her often. I think it's hard for her to understand that I'm just trying to support her. I can't imagine how hard of a life she has had. since her parents were in it and she grew up in it. It must be hard also because if she choose to make some changes as an adult, she puts at risk her family. It has to be hard.
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cheranne
spiritual abuse
emotional abuse
mental abuse
physical abuse
child abuse
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skyrider
On so many levels............twi-cult life is just regimented boredom and hypocrisy.
In hindsight, I tend to see how this poverty level lends itself to all sorts of emotional abuse..........few friends, wayfer-hypocrisy zone, no music lessons, few school events, always sitting in twig meetings or "babysat" during classes, once turned 12 then expected to sit in class, always on the threshold of being reproved, very little freedom for childlike fun, etc. etc. etc.
What about when the twi-teenager turns 16? A car to drive? Movies? Dating? Video games? Cell phone? School sports and events? In running to every twi activity for 15-20 years.........few twi parents had any extra money for their kids. Just scraping by for so many.
No wonder the kids bolt when they turn 18.
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Bramble
When our kids were small but in primary grades they recieved a year,s end reward--tickets to an amusement park--for good behavior and good grades. The tickets were for the same time as HHF, so we reported our plans to not be there but take the kids to the park. Our HFC was adamant about us going to HHF instead.
Can you imagine telling three little kids they couldn't have their reward because we needed to get to HHF? Other kids from the school were there at the same time, it was like a party.We went to the amusement park and had rides, cotton candy, the whole deal. That night hubby and I drank a six pack of beer and had the first really long talk about TWI we'd ever had, and a few months later we left.
That was a real eye opener for Hubby.
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