I used to hate it. It was sort of embarrassing really, especially when I was a kid. I still remember showing up at a girl's house that I liked in school, and to have to be a religious nut in front of her wasn't exactly impressive.
one time right after i was forced to take pfal i was also forced to "go witnessing" and it was door to door and in an upscale neighborhood and we were going there because "their god is their money". i thought it was the stupidest thing i had ever heard of even before i was forced to participate so once i was forced to do it i figured that the jerks forcing me to go were going to get me "all out dog soldier" and i hammed it up so good that the twig leader started apologizing to the lady and he drug me back to the sidewalk and gave me a good talkingto about not offending people, to which i replied "i'm offended i'm here so let me go home". that didn't happen but i got my swings in.
I'm probably the exception....But I loved to go witnessing....I really did....Just loved it. But, if I remember, not too many others that I knew did.
You must have, cause I can't say I knew any that really enjoyed it.. So few would show up to go.. And those that did always had to have a big "pep" talk prior.
Yeah, selling a class. Trying to persuade others to check out your fellowship.. Sounds like a cult to me.. Sounds like the opposite of genuine love and care for someone. Only care was you got what you wanted, Them coming to your big gig!
But I sure did my fare share. Hated every moment. Ok, well maybe not every. Since I knew I wasn't going to actually "help" someone, I'd make it a game and see how stupid I could make the person look just so they wouldn't like me and run away.. Now that was fun..
A group of us were going roller skating. Then it turned in to we were going to go witnessing door to door. I bailed once the activity turned to door-to-door witnessing, but somehow didn't get my very expensive pair of roller skates out of the person's car. I was told getting them back wouldn't be a problem because we're all Christians. Anytime I asked her, she never seemed to have them. Then she went WoW. So, whenever someone talked about wanting to go witnessing, I would tell them I would be happy to go, but first I needed to get my roller skates back. Well, that never happened, so I never went witnessing door to door.
I remember some Way Mag article about going witnessing [and if memory serves me right – it had some line in it like "Honey, throw the kids in the back of the truck - we're going witnessing" – I dunno…it was something spontaneous by a family anyway]…It was after that article came out – that of course, our local leadership had to follow suit. Oh crud! Nights of gathering at someone's house – organizing a few adults to watch the kids and everyone else heading out to bars, clubs, bowling alleys, door-to-door, street, etc.
I recall some of the ladies complaining about spending some time fending off pick-up artists. I don't think most of the folks enjoyed doing these bozo blitzkriegs – myself included. But being a Twig leader at the time, I had to keep up a good front and act like I was into it. I put on a twig face - like this :) .
And then someone got the idea to ratchet up this marvelous time waster [maybe from the same article…dunno…it's been so long ago] – it escalated into "revelation witnessing". Incredible! Now we had even more pressure...pretend like we're water dowsing for dummies [hey, everything after its own kind - it's in the Class fool!] . A bunch of us would circle up, close our eyes and quietly speak in puns to ourselves – and then one of the guys in my group [Jack] said "I see a man wearing a belt buckle with the name Bill on it". Odd – that night Jack [or the rest of us] never did run into anyone named Bill or wearing a belt buckle with the name Bill on it. But I bet he was nearby! To use a Get Smart line – "missed it by that much".
All through my time in twi, I objected to the organization's concept of "going witnessing."
I always figured that if God knew someone was ready to hear about Him and His Son, and if I was in the vicinity, God could get us together. To me, going "mall witnessing" and "door-to-door witnessing" was so contrived.
I wasn't ashamed of the message or afraid to speak it; I was ashamed to force it on anyone. I could still remember aggressive street-hippie Christians in 1960s Los Angeles accosting me with, "Are ya saved, sister? They always seemed phony to me, and I didn't want to be like them.
I know it says in the Bible that they went house to house in the first century. But who ever said they went house to house the way we did in twi? Maybe they just went house to house doing kind things for their neighbors, and then when and if people wanted to know, they told them about Jesus Christ. It was a giving thing, not a "trying to get something" (i.e., a signed green card, another notch on the belt) thing.
Going Lightbearers in the Corps was the worst form of contrived "witnessing," IMO. It was nothing more than selling PFAL. I happened to like PFAL, but I sure didn't like blowing into a town, selling "the class," and then blowing out of town. "Yeah, I'll be your friend. For 2 weeks. Then b'bye." Yuck.
I know what you mean, but still disagree with the premise that it was forced; which may lead to the thought that one had no choice in the matter. Programs like WOW were a choice. Witnessing night was a choice. ( I know folks who didn't go WOW and did not show up for witnessing night (even me sometimes :D ); those were choices too.))
I tried to see it more than simply "trying to get something" (although it IS like trying to catch fish, being a fisher of men) but doing something (I believed was) profitable that may really help someone else, something outside of my usual regular comfortable, quiet, lazy self.
I saw it as a great challenge too, which it definitely was, since I hate selling anything.
Think about it... its not easy to walk up to someone and talk about God, whether in a mall or at someone's door. In addition to helping someone learn more about God that made some sense I think witnessing had the potential of building character, and overcoming fear. So I view this as something "I did" as opposed to being told I had to do this. My feeling is, if it is not done willingly, it is essentially valueless in the long run anyway.
The part about selling PFAL then blowing out of town not caring about who is left there, is reasonable. I guess it depends on one's own mindset? Is one there simply to sell PFAL and not care a fig about the people who God brought in one's path, or view it as God bringing these people in one's path to be responsible to serve over a considerable length of time? Both mindsets were available, no doubt.
Y'know, witnessing shouldn't be a big deal. Sit on the bus, the train, a bench on the park; engage someone in conversation; you'll find they quickly start talking about their pet "thing". How many are happy talking about their "Mother Nature" or astrology or black/white magic or whatever their thing is? They complain about the weather? Just speaking about how good God is, and how we couldn't manage without x or y. Surprising how many will start talking about their own Christian faith.
I say this, living in a country where one's beliefs are only rarely spoken about; it's not good form and it's non-PC and ergh... :( - not a high public God-consciousness here.
It's nice to engage in conversation and put a smile on someone's face. Make them feel a little better about their day. Maybe they will accept a kind word or two from you, a stranger whom they'll never meet again. Maybe they will tell you about some problem on their mind. Maybe you will give them the only nice time they will have that day.
When it gets hard, is where you aren't engaging in a conversation but engaging in a sales pitch, or trying to "convert" them there and then to your way of thinking, or "showing off" about how much of the Bible you know - and generally disregarding or dismissing whatever they say. No wonder people were put off by the "mall attack" or the doorknocking.
Wonder how many people were ever actually won for God (never mind TWI) that way?
Yeah, selling a class. Trying to persuade others to check out your fellowship.. Sounds like a cult to me.. Sounds like the opposite of genuine love and care for someone. Only care was you got what you wanted, Them coming to your big gig!
I didn't mind inviting people to fellowship; I often invited friends and acquaintances to fellowship. I never viewed my fellowship as a twi "product" or certainly not a "big gig." What I minded was being put into an artificial situation to do so. On the rare occasions when I did succumb to the peer pressure to "go" witnessing, I did care about the people I met, and I tried to see ways to help or encourage them if I could.
I think I only pushed the WOWs in my family to go door to door once or maybe twice all year, due to pressure from "above," and I felt bad doing it.
newlife, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm sure you were looking out for the best interests of the people you talked to, and not to those of twi, or it couldn't have been so enjoyable. :)
Tzaia, that's one way to get out of it! Too bad about your rollerskates, though.
Oldies, you said:
I know what you mean but still disagree with the premise that it was forced; which may lead to the thought that one had no choice in the matter. Programs like WOW were a choice. Witnessing night was a choice. ( I know folks who didn't go WOW and did not show up for witnessing night (even me sometimes ); those were choices too.))
By forced I don't mean someone stood over me with a club. I mean forced as contrived, as in a "forced smile."
Yes, we had a choice, and usually I chose not to do it. But at times the pressure to go was quite intense and I gave in. Going WOW was a choice for me only in that I volunteered to be in the Corps and going WOW was my interim year assignment. I never had any desire to go WOW. I thought people should be a witness where they lived, unless they had a ministry of an evangelist and felt the need to move somewhere else to fulfill it. I knew I didn't, and therefore I was always uncomfortable about it. Ditto for Lightbearers, only worse. At least I lived in the community where I was a WOW and had the chance to form relationships with people, rather than just shove a green card in their hands and leave town!
I tried to see it more than simply "trying to get something" (although it IS like trying to catch fish, being a fisher of men) but doing something (I believed was) profitable that may really help someone else, something outside of my usual regular comfortable, quiet, lazy self.
I certainly didn't view it as trying to get something, either, but I believe that was the push behind all the "going witnessing." I was neither quiet nor lazy, so I didn't need to take part in a fake scenario in order to meet people and talk to them about God.
Think about it... its not easy to walk up to someone and talk about God, whether in a mall or at someone's door. In addition to helping someone learn more about God that made some sense I think witnessing had the potential of building character, and overcoming fear. So I view this as something "I did" as opposed to being told I had to do this. My feeling is, if it can't be done by free will, it is worthless in the long run anyway.
I have thought about it. A lot. No, it's not easy to walk up to someone and talk about God, but there's a reason for that. It's unnatural. Speaking to someone at God's gentle urging is a far cry from circling a mall looking for anyone, just anyone, who will listen. I heartily agree that if it isn't done by free will, as opposed to coercion, that it's worthless. I think if anyone ever came to know God in a shopping mall, that was the exception, and it was God's doing in spite of the flawed approach of the people "witnessing."
The part about selling PFAL then blowing out of town not caring about who is left there, is reasonable. I guess it depends on one's own mindset? Is one there simply to sell PFAL and not care a fig about the people who God brought in one's path, or view it as God bringing these people in one's path to be responsible to serve over a considerable length of time? Both mindsets were available, no doubt.
Oldies, it didn't matter if you cared a fig about the people you met on Lightbearers or not. The fact was you were in a town for 2 weeks, under threat of not being allowed to stay in the Corps if your Lightbearers group didn't "get a class together." Then you were back on your campus, trying to keep up with the busy in-rez schedule and rarely, if ever, got to see the people again. That was BS, plain and simple. Phony, fake, forced, and fear-motivated. I think I had a mindset of being there to help people, but that didn't change the fact that those people would probably never lay eyes on us again.
Twinky, a hearty amen to everything you said there. That's exactly what I was trying to get at.
And then someone got the idea to ratchet up this marvelous time waster [maybe from the same article…dunno…it's been so long ago] – it escalated into "revelation witnessing". Incredible! Now we had even more pressure...pretend like we're water dowsing for dummies [hey, everything after its own kind - it's in the Class fool!] . A bunch of us would circle up, close our eyes and quietly speak in puns to ourselves – and then one of the guys in my group [Jack] said "I see a man wearing a belt buckle with the name Bill on it". Odd – that night Jack [or the rest of us] never did run into anyone named Bill or wearing a belt buckle with the name Bill on it. But I bet he was nearby! To use a Get Smart line – "missed it by that much".
Wow! I don't remember "revelation witnessing" -- I wonder if that was after my time. I haven't read this whole thread yet, and in fact, I started at the end and have been reading the posts in reverse order, but when I saw this, T-Bone, I just had to jump in and say something...
I remember "going witnessing" with the twig, and later with my WOW family, and I was always uncomfortable with the way we did it -- it was so contrived. A friend of mine from college used to call it "witlessing." So many times when I was in a mall or going door-to-door, I couldn't think of anything to say except to invite people to twig and try to explain what that was. I felt like a fraud even though I was trying to do what I thought was right.
The only positive experiences I had with witnessing were when I just went about my life, trying to serve God, caring about people, and just generally trying to be a good person. Sometimes, there would be a natural opening in the conversation, that is, the other person would say or ask something that related to God, the Bible, or some aspect of life that I understood to be connected with spirituality. When that happened, I would say a quick silent prayer for the right thing to say, and then say what I thought or felt. It didn't always involve a direct mention of TWI or PFAL, but it always glorified God. And of course, this was not "forced 'witnessing'" but the real thing, IMO. It doesn't happen just because leadership schedules it!
For some reason, (and I can only blame myself for being brain dead as a youth ) I didn't realize that the purpose of the WOW program was to witness "8 hours a day", until I got to WOW training.
I had several people prodding me to go, telling me the program was all about learning how to live the Word, by living with other believers in a new environment. I'd learn how to trust God to find a job, grow by living with others, and having an exciting 'adventure'.I'd 'grow' 10 years in 1, and so on. I don't recall 'witnessing' ever being mentioned, outside of the knowledge that we'd be running twigs and classes. I guess I was naive-but really more brain dead, not to see that none of that would happen unless we told people about it.
I adapted to it, and found as many ways to duck door to door, etc as much as a WOW as I did before. That means I was able to make myself scarce sometimes, but too often couldn't avoid it. I hated the whole concept of witnessing. I did enjoy talking with people on real terms, without any agenda, but it eventually led to the pfal sales pitch. What the heck was I thinking.
Wow! I don't remember "revelation witnessing" -- I wonder if that was after my time. I haven't read this whole thread yet, and in fact, I started at the end and have been reading the posts in reverse order, but when I saw this, T-Bone, I just had to jump in and say something...
I remember "going witnessing" with the twig, and later with my WOW family, and I was always uncomfortable with the way we did it -- it was so contrived. A friend of mine from college used to call it "witlessing." So many times when I was in a mall or going door-to-door, I couldn't think of anything to say except to invite people to twig and try to explain what that was. I felt like a fraud even though I was trying to do what I thought was right.
The only positive experiences I had with witnessing were when I just went about my life, trying to serve God, caring about people, and just generally trying to be a good person. Sometimes, there would be a natural opening in the conversation, that is, the other person would say or ask something that related to God, the Bible, or some aspect of life that I understood to be connected with spirituality. When that happened, I would say a quick silent prayer for the right thing to say, and then say what I thought or felt. It didn't always involve a direct mention of TWI or PFAL, but it always glorified God. And of course, this was not "forced 'witnessing'" but the real thing, IMO. It doesn't happen just because leadership schedules it!
Hampshire, my wife could probably nail down the time period - but I'm thinking we did this somewhere between 83 and 85...I admire the folks on this thread that have expressed a natural way of spreading the gospel - as you have done... Sorry all, if I sounded so sarcastic in my post - I don't mean to offend - just want to vent I guess...I think all the years of having leadership cramming it down my throat not to waste time with people who are not interested in PFAL made me one very calloused snob....
hmmmm...thinking about a whole different issue now - how I'd be so charming, understanding, patient & forgiving trying to attract new people to twig and take the class - and yet I could be a royal a$$hole to the wife & kid....ok - back to this thread...
Maybe I'm just a rank unbeliever now...so burned out on witnessing and the group-think mentality - I don't belong to a church, don't think I ever will...I'm so screwed up doctrinally - not even sure where I stand on certain things so I don't want to spread my screwed-upness around...so who cares - tell you something I feel real good about now - devoting a lot more of my time & energy to my family...and going to bed at night thinking "ok, I wasn't a royal a$$hole to my family today...now that's a great accomplishment".
I'm probably the exception....But I loved to go witnessing....I really did....Just loved it. But, if I remember, not too many others that I knew did.
between all the door slams, cursing, police, and angry looks, there were some interesting people. Those folks I remember most.
One girl in particular that was "witnessed" to decided to come along with us. It was quite a surprise. She was actually quite intelligent. I believe now she was trying to show us gently how dumb we were being.
Maybe these excepts from Witnessing and Undershepharding will add some perspective:
Page 2
"The basic reason we witness is to help people into the classes on Power for Abundant Living."
OR
page 4
"You are to witness- now go witnessing to move the Word. Go and tell."
OR
page 5
"The reason believers won't or don't witness is always because of fear"
OR
page 6
"We live abundantly and then give Power for Abundant Living."
*************************************************
So, when you boil the cabbage down, what you are left with is the reality of what actually took place.
TWI and the PFAL series was a cleverly crafted multi-level-marketing scheme.
We were, perhaps, the worst paid sales force in the history of mankind. (exaggeration intentional)
We actually paid them for the privilege of hawking their product and were made to feel less than adequate if we didn't participate or succeed. And, the the concept of "Well, at least we moved The Word" doesn't fly either. The product we were pushing was a flawed rendering of scripture, tainted by the "private interpretation" of a guy who was quite adept at privately interpreting it to suit his own desires. We weren't "moving the Word". We were selling a class and establishing a base of followers who would willingly and systematically divert a high percentage of their material gains to further "the cause".
I hated it. I remember as a WOW witnessing to a girl (Which was unusual because I am female) and she nicely tried to tell me TWI was a cult.
Of course I had heard that before, and tried even harder to convince her it wasn't.
I remember the look on her face, pity and shock.
Being at the limb and under the watchfull eye of the limb leader J.C. . . . I used to get such guff for not going door to door or making my WOW family do that.
At least we didn't shave our heads . . . wear sheets. . . and sell flowers at the airport.
I hated it. I remember as a WOW witnessing to a girl (Which was unusual because I am female) and she nicely tried to tell me TWI was a cult.
Of course I had heard that before, and tried even harder to convince her it wasn't.
I remember the look on her face, pity and shock.
Being at the limb and under the watchfull eye of the limb leader J.C. . . . I used to get such guff for not going door to door or making my WOW family do that.
At least we didn't shave our heads . . . wear sheets. . . and sell flowers at the airport.
Geisha, you reminded me of one of my many odd WOW experiences - this one I like to refer to as the "clash of the titans". I witnessed to a guy on the bus. He acted real interested in what I had to say. He invites me over to his home - he and few other guys lived in a house not too far from the Row House of my WOW family...Yeow - I walked into a trap - or something. They were Moonies. Talk about going around and around the goofy go-round :wacko: . In all fairness I'd have to say it was a stand-off...neither cult scoring any points....well, here I am at Grease Spot in this day and time and hour, far from the maddening crowd...wonder where my Moon friend is.
I know what you mean, but still disagree with the premise that it was forced; which may lead to the thought that one had no choice in the matter. Programs like WOW were a choice. Witnessing night was a choice. ( I know folks who didn't go WOW and did not show up for witnessing night (even me sometimes :D ); those were choices too.))
Oldies,
If you mean, I could leave the Way and therefore be under no legal obligation to witness, then yes, you're right. However, when your spouse, parent, etc. controls your life then you can be coerced. And the reality is that most nine year old children won't sue for legal emancipation even under abusive situations much less Way witnessing requirements.
So, for many, it was in every practical sense, forced.
AND... as a person in a leadership role, I tried to have numerous discussions with my state manager over the topic and was told, in so many words, just do it. I was given NO option at all. The time/dates were assigned and no discussion allowed. Period. I guess I could have quit being a twig coordinator but would have suffered public humiliation (like others had) and possible exile from TWI. People are not perfect and have weaknesses. To say it wasn't forced, after significant, organized enormous group pressure, allows a technicality to absolve the guilty.
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Mister P-Mosh
I used to hate it. It was sort of embarrassing really, especially when I was a kid. I still remember showing up at a girl's house that I liked in school, and to have to be a religious nut in front of her wasn't exactly impressive.
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brainfixed
one time right after i was forced to take pfal i was also forced to "go witnessing" and it was door to door and in an upscale neighborhood and we were going there because "their god is their money". i thought it was the stupidest thing i had ever heard of even before i was forced to participate so once i was forced to do it i figured that the jerks forcing me to go were going to get me "all out dog soldier" and i hammed it up so good that the twig leader started apologizing to the lady and he drug me back to the sidewalk and gave me a good talkingto about not offending people, to which i replied "i'm offended i'm here so let me go home". that didn't happen but i got my swings in.
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krys
Most of those witnessing gigs were so contrived. People don't take to that well.
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waysider
"----and you get all this and more for the low, low price of $100 $85 $200 $65."
(pssst, Louie------ how much are we charging this week??)
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newlife
I'm probably the exception....But I loved to go witnessing....I really did....Just loved it. But, if I remember, not too many others that I knew did.
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TrustAndObey
You must have, cause I can't say I knew any that really enjoyed it.. So few would show up to go.. And those that did always had to have a big "pep" talk prior.
Yeah, selling a class. Trying to persuade others to check out your fellowship.. Sounds like a cult to me.. Sounds like the opposite of genuine love and care for someone. Only care was you got what you wanted, Them coming to your big gig!
But I sure did my fare share. Hated every moment. Ok, well maybe not every. Since I knew I wasn't going to actually "help" someone, I'd make it a game and see how stupid I could make the person look just so they wouldn't like me and run away.. Now that was fun..
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Tzaia
A group of us were going roller skating. Then it turned in to we were going to go witnessing door to door. I bailed once the activity turned to door-to-door witnessing, but somehow didn't get my very expensive pair of roller skates out of the person's car. I was told getting them back wouldn't be a problem because we're all Christians. Anytime I asked her, she never seemed to have them. Then she went WoW. So, whenever someone talked about wanting to go witnessing, I would tell them I would be happy to go, but first I needed to get my roller skates back. Well, that never happened, so I never went witnessing door to door.
And I lived.
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T-Bone
I remember some Way Mag article about going witnessing [and if memory serves me right – it had some line in it like "Honey, throw the kids in the back of the truck - we're going witnessing" – I dunno…it was something spontaneous by a family anyway]…It was after that article came out – that of course, our local leadership had to follow suit. Oh crud! Nights of gathering at someone's house – organizing a few adults to watch the kids and everyone else heading out to bars, clubs, bowling alleys, door-to-door, street, etc.
I recall some of the ladies complaining about spending some time fending off pick-up artists. I don't think most of the folks enjoyed doing these bozo blitzkriegs – myself included. But being a Twig leader at the time, I had to keep up a good front and act like I was into it. I put on a twig face - like this :) .
And then someone got the idea to ratchet up this marvelous time waster [maybe from the same article…dunno…it's been so long ago] – it escalated into "revelation witnessing". Incredible! Now we had even more pressure...pretend like we're water dowsing for dummies [hey, everything after its own kind - it's in the Class fool!]
. A bunch of us would circle up, close our eyes and quietly speak in puns to ourselves – and then one of the guys in my group [Jack] said "I see a man wearing a belt buckle with the name Bill on it". Odd – that night Jack [or the rest of us] never did run into anyone named Bill or wearing a belt buckle with the name Bill on it. But I bet he was nearby! To use a Get Smart line – "missed it by that much". 
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oldiesman
I know what you mean, but still disagree with the premise that it was forced; which may lead to the thought that one had no choice in the matter. Programs like WOW were a choice. Witnessing night was a choice. ( I know folks who didn't go WOW and did not show up for witnessing night (even me sometimes :D ); those were choices too.))
I tried to see it more than simply "trying to get something" (although it IS like trying to catch fish, being a fisher of men) but doing something (I believed was) profitable that may really help someone else, something outside of my usual regular comfortable, quiet, lazy self.
I saw it as a great challenge too, which it definitely was, since I hate selling anything.
Think about it... its not easy to walk up to someone and talk about God, whether in a mall or at someone's door. In addition to helping someone learn more about God that made some sense I think witnessing had the potential of building character, and overcoming fear. So I view this as something "I did" as opposed to being told I had to do this. My feeling is, if it is not done willingly, it is essentially valueless in the long run anyway.
The part about selling PFAL then blowing out of town not caring about who is left there, is reasonable. I guess it depends on one's own mindset? Is one there simply to sell PFAL and not care a fig about the people who God brought in one's path, or view it as God bringing these people in one's path to be responsible to serve over a considerable length of time? Both mindsets were available, no doubt.
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brainfixed
the kids didn't have a choice.
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Twinky
Y'know, witnessing shouldn't be a big deal. Sit on the bus, the train, a bench on the park; engage someone in conversation; you'll find they quickly start talking about their pet "thing". How many are happy talking about their "Mother Nature" or astrology or black/white magic or whatever their thing is? They complain about the weather? Just speaking about how good God is, and how we couldn't manage without x or y. Surprising how many will start talking about their own Christian faith.
I say this, living in a country where one's beliefs are only rarely spoken about; it's not good form and it's non-PC and ergh... :( - not a high public God-consciousness here.
It's nice to engage in conversation and put a smile on someone's face. Make them feel a little better about their day. Maybe they will accept a kind word or two from you, a stranger whom they'll never meet again. Maybe they will tell you about some problem on their mind. Maybe you will give them the only nice time they will have that day.
When it gets hard, is where you aren't engaging in a conversation but engaging in a sales pitch, or trying to "convert" them there and then to your way of thinking, or "showing off" about how much of the Bible you know - and generally disregarding or dismissing whatever they say. No wonder people were put off by the "mall attack" or the doorknocking.
Wonder how many people were ever actually won for God (never mind TWI) that way?
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Linda Z
TrustandObey said:
I didn't mind inviting people to fellowship; I often invited friends and acquaintances to fellowship. I never viewed my fellowship as a twi "product" or certainly not a "big gig." What I minded was being put into an artificial situation to do so. On the rare occasions when I did succumb to the peer pressure to "go" witnessing, I did care about the people I met, and I tried to see ways to help or encourage them if I could.
I think I only pushed the WOWs in my family to go door to door once or maybe twice all year, due to pressure from "above," and I felt bad doing it.
newlife, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm sure you were looking out for the best interests of the people you talked to, and not to those of twi, or it couldn't have been so enjoyable. :)
Tzaia, that's one way to get out of it! Too bad about your rollerskates, though.
Oldies, you said:
By forced I don't mean someone stood over me with a club. I mean forced as contrived, as in a "forced smile."
Yes, we had a choice, and usually I chose not to do it. But at times the pressure to go was quite intense and I gave in. Going WOW was a choice for me only in that I volunteered to be in the Corps and going WOW was my interim year assignment. I never had any desire to go WOW. I thought people should be a witness where they lived, unless they had a ministry of an evangelist and felt the need to move somewhere else to fulfill it. I knew I didn't, and therefore I was always uncomfortable about it. Ditto for Lightbearers, only worse. At least I lived in the community where I was a WOW and had the chance to form relationships with people, rather than just shove a green card in their hands and leave town!
I certainly didn't view it as trying to get something, either, but I believe that was the push behind all the "going witnessing." I was neither quiet nor lazy, so I didn't need to take part in a fake scenario in order to meet people and talk to them about God.
I have thought about it. A lot. No, it's not easy to walk up to someone and talk about God, but there's a reason for that. It's unnatural. Speaking to someone at God's gentle urging is a far cry from circling a mall looking for anyone, just anyone, who will listen. I heartily agree that if it isn't done by free will, as opposed to coercion, that it's worthless. I think if anyone ever came to know God in a shopping mall, that was the exception, and it was God's doing in spite of the flawed approach of the people "witnessing."
Oldies, it didn't matter if you cared a fig about the people you met on Lightbearers or not. The fact was you were in a town for 2 weeks, under threat of not being allowed to stay in the Corps if your Lightbearers group didn't "get a class together." Then you were back on your campus, trying to keep up with the busy in-rez schedule and rarely, if ever, got to see the people again. That was BS, plain and simple. Phony, fake, forced, and fear-motivated. I think I had a mindset of being there to help people, but that didn't change the fact that those people would probably never lay eyes on us again.
Twinky, a hearty amen to everything you said there. That's exactly what I was trying to get at.
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hampshire73
Wow! I don't remember "revelation witnessing" -- I wonder if that was after my time. I haven't read this whole thread yet, and in fact, I started at the end and have been reading the posts in reverse order, but when I saw this, T-Bone, I just had to jump in and say something...
I remember "going witnessing" with the twig, and later with my WOW family, and I was always uncomfortable with the way we did it -- it was so contrived. A friend of mine from college used to call it "witlessing." So many times when I was in a mall or going door-to-door, I couldn't think of anything to say except to invite people to twig and try to explain what that was. I felt like a fraud even though I was trying to do what I thought was right.
The only positive experiences I had with witnessing were when I just went about my life, trying to serve God, caring about people, and just generally trying to be a good person. Sometimes, there would be a natural opening in the conversation, that is, the other person would say or ask something that related to God, the Bible, or some aspect of life that I understood to be connected with spirituality. When that happened, I would say a quick silent prayer for the right thing to say, and then say what I thought or felt. It didn't always involve a direct mention of TWI or PFAL, but it always glorified God. And of course, this was not "forced 'witnessing'" but the real thing, IMO. It doesn't happen just because leadership schedules it!
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hiway29
For some reason, (and I can only blame myself for being brain dead as a youth ) I didn't realize that the purpose of the WOW program was to witness "8 hours a day", until I got to WOW training.
I had several people prodding me to go, telling me the program was all about learning how to live the Word, by living with other believers in a new environment. I'd learn how to trust God to find a job, grow by living with others, and having an exciting 'adventure'.I'd 'grow' 10 years in 1, and so on. I don't recall 'witnessing' ever being mentioned, outside of the knowledge that we'd be running twigs and classes. I guess I was naive-but really more brain dead, not to see that none of that would happen unless we told people about it.
I adapted to it, and found as many ways to duck door to door, etc as much as a WOW as I did before. That means I was able to make myself scarce sometimes, but too often couldn't avoid it. I hated the whole concept of witnessing. I did enjoy talking with people on real terms, without any agenda, but it eventually led to the pfal sales pitch. What the heck was I thinking.
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Bolshevik
if we're old enough to go witnessing, we're old enough to fight.
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T-Bone
Hampshire, my wife could probably nail down the time period - but I'm thinking we did this somewhere between 83 and 85...I admire the folks on this thread that have expressed a natural way of spreading the gospel - as you have done... Sorry all, if I sounded so sarcastic in my post - I don't mean to offend - just want to vent I guess...I think all the years of having leadership cramming it down my throat not to waste time with people who are not interested in PFAL made me one very calloused snob....
hmmmm...thinking about a whole different issue now - how I'd be so charming, understanding, patient & forgiving trying to attract new people to twig and take the class - and yet I could be a royal a$$hole to the wife & kid....ok - back to this thread...
Maybe I'm just a rank unbeliever now...so burned out on witnessing and the group-think mentality - I don't belong to a church, don't think I ever will...I'm so screwed up doctrinally - not even sure where I stand on certain things so I don't want to spread my screwed-upness around...so who cares - tell you something I feel real good about now - devoting a lot more of my time & energy to my family...and going to bed at night thinking "ok, I wasn't a royal a$$hole to my family today...now that's a great accomplishment".
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Bolshevik
between all the door slams, cursing, police, and angry looks, there were some interesting people. Those folks I remember most.
One girl in particular that was "witnessed" to decided to come along with us. It was quite a surprise. She was actually quite intelligent. I believe now she was trying to show us gently how dumb we were being.
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waysider
Maybe these excepts from Witnessing and Undershepharding will add some perspective:
Page 2
"The basic reason we witness is to help people into the classes on Power for Abundant Living."
OR
page 4
"You are to witness- now go witnessing to move the Word. Go and tell."
OR
page 5
"The reason believers won't or don't witness is always because of fear"
OR
page 6
"We live abundantly and then give Power for Abundant Living."
*************************************************
So, when you boil the cabbage down, what you are left with is the reality of what actually took place.
TWI and the PFAL series was a cleverly crafted multi-level-marketing scheme.
We were, perhaps, the worst paid sales force in the history of mankind. (exaggeration intentional)
We actually paid them for the privilege of hawking their product and were made to feel less than adequate if we didn't participate or succeed. And, the the concept of "Well, at least we moved The Word" doesn't fly either. The product we were pushing was a flawed rendering of scripture, tainted by the "private interpretation" of a guy who was quite adept at privately interpreting it to suit his own desires. We weren't "moving the Word". We were selling a class and establishing a base of followers who would willingly and systematically divert a high percentage of their material gains to further "the cause".
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geisha779
I hated it. I remember as a WOW witnessing to a girl (Which was unusual because I am female) and she nicely tried to tell me TWI was a cult.
Of course I had heard that before, and tried even harder to convince her it wasn't.
I remember the look on her face, pity and shock.
Being at the limb and under the watchfull eye of the limb leader J.C. . . . I used to get such guff for not going door to door or making my WOW family do that.
At least we didn't shave our heads . . . wear sheets. . . and sell flowers at the airport.
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excathedra
haven't read the thread i don't even want to talk about this
could be because i did way marketing with the f u'ing books
i don't know
--
ps. i had this gal make me tell her about jesus chrirst -- against my will -- that's a story
but i'm really disgusted by the witnessing techniques
i think i'm in a bad mood and you should ignore me
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T-Bone
Geisha, you reminded me of one of my many odd WOW experiences - this one I like to refer to as the "clash of the titans". I witnessed to a guy on the bus. He acted real interested in what I had to say. He invites me over to his home - he and few other guys lived in a house not too far from the Row House of my WOW family...Yeow - I walked into a trap - or something. They were Moonies. Talk about going around and around the goofy go-round :wacko: . In all fairness I'd have to say it was a stand-off...neither cult scoring any points....well, here I am at Grease Spot in this day and time and hour, far from the maddening crowd...wonder where my Moon friend is.
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Twinky
T-Bone, that has all the makings of an excellent comedy show!
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JustThinking
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