I think she feels the same way. It seems that hope for change has been going on a while. I recall on several occasions her saying that all the bad stuff is in the past...that it was bad during the Martindale times but no longer...that she is going to be the one to change things. I have strongly opposed The Way since pretty much the beginning of the relationship. Well, at first I was open to it but when I "was accepted" (LOL) to take the foundational class, I realized after the "orientation" that this was a cult. The biggest thing that got me is that if they got this amazing, profound, in depth message to share, why don't they share? Why is it all so hidden? Why is there no phone # to call for info? Why does the website have no info (and don't tell me because they just haven't gotten around to it). I don't hate the people in the groups, I think most mean well and are just doing what they are taught, or not doing what they have been threatened not too.
The wheels seem to be falling off with us lately. My criticism in the past of The Way in general is being attached to the people she cares about and she keeps accusing me of hating all of them. I do hate some of the teaching...and if the leaders know what they are doing I am not a big fan of that either. She say's that I have to give her friends a chance, But I feel I have many times. They just don't like me. One time I threw my GF a b-day party, or tried to, but nobody responded to me. In fact instead of replying, another b-day party was arranged at the same time and I wasn't formally invited.
I feel at a loss. What is the best way to support her? Can I support the friends and not The Way? Should I oppose any involvement in the Way? Should I just bail from the whole thing? Some of this stuff feels so high schoolish. I am 31 and want to have a family, a strong Christian family, but don't know that will happen with such anger coming from her toward me.
They have a website so they can say "We have a website" when they "witness". The "work" is done face to face.
If she's anything like me, Christian life is completely foreign to her mind. Aspects are mimicked as far as I can tell, but that's it. It is strangely different to me. Have you discussed the differences between The Law of Believing and Faith?
I've heard of the party scenario before. They want credit for everything. Birthdays, graduations, weddings, babies. Everything.
There's no middle ground. The Way is very much against marrying those who aren't standing, "outsiders". They will mostly work on her. Certain words her friends say trigger certain thoughts and strange emotions.
The easiest, most comforting thing for her is for you to move her way. ("join" twi). You won't get what you want/need that way. Unlikely.
Her friends will likely remain aggressive. If you walk away, they will keep "working on her" until she's comfortable with twi again. If you push, you will be doing exactly what her friends claim you would do, causing her stress.
If you push, you will be doing exactly what her friends claim you would do, causing her stress.
Bingo. I wouldn't try to force her or argue about going or not going or seeing old friends or not. That just backfires. If you can put up with her friends then I would. I think if you have the option, as in an invite or are going with her to meet friends, then go with her. Lead by example, the way you did when she first left. Show her the difference between someone who truly loves her and someone who only cares for her if she is in their cult... by your actions. Everyone has to arrive at this at their own time and their own pace.
I would say don't let the Way come between you and her. If they want to break you up then let her see that through their actions. If you really love her, be there for her. Fight for her, not with her. You obviously saw something in each other back when you first got together, when she was in the Way. I doubt the two of you have changed much. Your perceptions of each others beliefs may have changed but you're still the same people. Don't let religion destroy what I imagine was a natural attraction and affection.
My question is what kind of "friends" would throw a birthday party and not invite the guest of honor's boyfriend? Wouldn't that have been a perfect opportunity to get to know you better?
I would back off with a heart-felt, "I don't want to get between you and your religion." And commend her for her desire to "fix" the ministry, but you're not interested in fixing a religion, you just want to live a Christian life with a Christian woman.
To take it a step further, this is an area that will make a huge difference when it comes time to have kids. As long as her family is still involved, this is going to be an issue. Since her family is still involved, you are dealing with some hard-core people who wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them upside the head. From what I can see, everyone who could form an independent thought has been culled from the ranks. These people cannot be reasoned with and really, truly believe they are the sole holders of "the truth".
Bingo. I wouldn't try to force her or argue about going or not going or seeing old friends or not. That just backfires. If you can put up with her friends then I would. I think if you have the option, as in an invite or are going with her to meet friends, then go with her. Lead by example, the way you did when she first left. Show her the difference between someone who truly loves her and someone who only cares for her if she is in their cult... by your actions. Everyone has to arrive at this at their own time and their own pace.
I would say don't let the Way come between you and her. If they want to break you up then let her see that through their actions. If you really love her, be there for her. Fight for her, not with her. You obviously saw something in each other back when you first got together, when she was in the Way. I doubt the two of you have changed much. Your perceptions of each others beliefs may have changed but you're still the same people. Don't let religion destroy what I imagine was a natural attraction and affection.
Sounds like some great advice!!!
Pure, genuine, love.. You care for her, so show it!
The wheels seem to be falling off with us lately. My criticism in the past of The Way in general is being attached to the people she cares about and she keeps accusing me of hating all of them.
This is what THEY are putting into her head. But it is easier for her to follow that logic than to believe you over her long-time 'friends'.
She say's that I have to give her friends a chance, But I feel I have many times. They just don't like me. One time I threw my GF a b-day party, or tried to, but nobody responded to me. In fact instead of replying, another b-day party was arranged at the same time and I wasn't formally invited.
Did she KNOW the whole truth about this situation? If she didn't, did you try to tell her? (Did she listen?) If she did and defended them anyway, I think you have a real uphill battle on your hands. -- When I was divorcing my husband, we were trying to work out a shared custody plan. His work was going to seriously interfere with the time he wanted to spend with our son. He called his boss to explain and say he simply had to find another job so he wouldn't miss out on his time with his kid. Fifteen minutes later leadership called (his boss was in twi) to tell him what a stupid decision he was making. It took them about two minutes to convince him he was putting his cop-out wife's needs over God's people and that the blessings would come only if he kept his current job. -- It was just too hard for him to stand up to the people he had come to rely on for friendship, guidance, and a direct hotline to God's wishes... he did what they told him to do and convinced himself it was the right thing.
I feel at a loss. What is the best way to support her? Can I support the friends and not The Way? Should I oppose any involvement in the Way? Should I just bail from the whole thing? Some of this stuff feels so high schoolish. I am 31 and want to have a family, a strong Christian family, but don't know that will happen with such anger coming from her toward me.
Yes, it IS very high-school-ish. These people use every petty manipulative methodology there is, and it can be very wearing.
No, I don't think you can just oppose her involvement; that will immediately give her a reason to blame you for her unhappiness.
It's pretty hard to be supportive to people who aren't trying. (aka the 'friends') -- If they just don't like you, that's bad enough. But if they are actively trying to subvert your relationship with your GF, then I frankly don't see a way of winning them over.
Only YOU can decide what the answers are... but here are the questions I think you need to ask yourself:
-- If I knew nothing would ever change, would I stay in this relationship?
-- How much time am I willing to invest on the chance of seeing progress? (a month? six months? a year? more?)
-- What kind of changes would constitute "progress"?
-- If you only saw a little progress, would that be enough?
Ultimately, you have to do what is best for YOU. I know that sounds really selfish, especially for a practicing Christian like yourself. But if you stay in a relationship only because you want to help your girlfriend, it won't last. That's not what a healthy relationship is built on... Everyone has baggage. You just have to decide how much of her baggage you can carry without having your whole life get bogged down from the weight of it.
This wonderful advice and I am so very thankful that I you all take time out of your lives to assist those that are affected by TWI. I strongly believe that w/o TWI, her and I could have a wonderful relationship. With their involvement, I am very concerned for what lies ahead. Those questions to ask myself in the previous post are so key because, even if she parts totally from fellowshipping, I would never expect or want her to abandon her family. That is ridiculous. I guess it all depends on how involved they try to be. I don't have kids, but I know me and I am the protective type. I would protect my children from this and would probably get very angry if they tried to lay this crap on them.
Again, thanks so much. This is very hard but you are a blessing to me!
The worse thing about the Way International is their hierarchical power structure with all religious authority at the top and with varying degrees as you go down their religious ladder. This is very much unbiblical. Here is something that I wrote that will help you in dealing with them on this. It is titled "the Lordship of Jesus Christ contrasting the lordship of Imperfect Man". Jesus Christ is Lord and not the people at the top of any religious hierarchy. Learn this lesson well and they will NEVER be able to pull anything deceptive against you. Jesus Christ was an example of service in dealing with man and our brothers and sisters in Christ. If any religious group does not show service to their brothers and sisters in Christ then they are worseless as an organization. And if any denominaiton or group insists on using controling religious power over others then they are less than worseless. Read and study this article with link below and you will not only increase your love and respect for Jesus Christ, but you will also be able to deal with most of anything that they throw at you when it comes to their religious controling power structure. The only man who is Lord is Jesus Christ.
Thanks for responding. She is 25 and her parents are in The Way. She has been in it her whole life, but has secretly opposed many of the teachings as I'm sure many do. We have been going to a great church which she seems to enjoy. She really only has one "really close" friend in The Way, but she has since moved to HQ and acts dissapointed in her that she didn't follow....that she isn't believing properly. She has many other people who she cares about though, but they only seem to care about her if she is "standing." Although her parents are dissapointed, they do support her and I.
Below is a link to the type of teaching that she needs to free herself of Way doctrine. It comes down to who is Lord and whose example of Lordship does one follow? The Way International leadership or the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thanks for the links. I will familiarize myself with the information. You make a good point about how contrary the way is to how Jesus was. The church I/we go to actually models Him quite well. They are encouraging to us and accept anyone into their house. They have supported us through prayer and continue to encourage me to hang in there. The opposite has happened with the way. Our problems are a result of the pressures she feels from being with me, IMO. As of yesterday, she has decided to go back, to some extent. She is going to begin fellowshipping again. We are still together, though to a lesser extent probably. Seems that whenever she is involved with TWI, the way I am treated worsens. Isn't that a sign of a loving, "tender", God loving organization?!
A couple years ago I went through a divorce and this has been much more difficult! I determined that the thing missing from that relationship was God. Well, I came to Christ and completed the Purpose Driven Life and upon finishing that I met her, within a day or so. At that exact time she was getting ready to enroll in the Way Corps, but upon meeting me decided to cancel those plans. I didn't realize until emotionally invested that TWI is what it is. But I held on tight to that belief that we were put into one anothers life for a reason.
I find myself asking God why. Why me? Is this what it means to have God in your relationship? Why do many of my friends have great relationships and no God? I know these are selfish questions, but they are honest ones.
At that exact time she was getting ready to enroll in the Way Corps, but upon meeting me decided to cancel those plans.
Here's another tidbit of information. The Way Corps through the thriving years of the ministry (late 70's - 86 when VPW died) had hundreds of Way Corps participants. After that numbers dwindled - more recent years there have been 10 - 15 people total, including married couples with children. And some of them get kicked out before graduating. There is a large problem among the non-married Way Corps that the single women outnumber the single men to the tune of about 7 to 1. For a while there they had some policy because of this that a married Corps girl could marry a non-Corps guy with the stipulation they would both go through the Way Corps training.
So marriage and children due to the biological clock of a young woman is a major concern with respect to her what they call "spiritual goals", or desire to enter the Way Corps. Any potential mate would be scrutinized and evaluated in light of his desire and ability to do the same thing. That is probably a higher level of pressure they would put on a bf/gf situation than normal even. With numbers being what they are, the young woman has few choices.
Anyway, that's a little more of the false reality there affecting your gf. Hope that helps.
I find myself asking God why. Why me? Is this what it means to have God in your relationship? Why do many of my friends have great relationships and no God? I know these are selfish questions, but they are honest ones.
There are scriptures that talk about what benefits to an individual trials bring. You are building strength to be a good Christian husband, which is different than being just a husband without God in your relationship. Trials build patience and character. We all have our own.
I do not want to come off harsh or mean. That being said I do tell it like it is.
I have followed this post and bit my tounge. I will try and use tact and not come off as a jerk..
My story is I am in the way and want out. My wife is in and she is there to stay. She knows
that twi is not perfect and stays because of family and friends. she thinks there is no other place
and the way is the only true place to find God and be in his favor. Yea there were bad times.
She blames it all on the past and Lcm. She thinks it was all lcm's fault and its ok now.
Truth is, the evil posion they call doctrine has not changed. There has been no policy changes in twi.
Everything you have posted about the way is true. It goes a lot deeper and the amout of people hurt
is a tradgey.
If you want a chance at a happy life, walk away now. I know this is harsh and cutting but I speak
from experience of a lonley life, trying to compete with an orginzation that spouts God but works for the devil.
If she has friends and family in its 100 times harder for a break. If she treats you bad after fellowship or
a get together with waybots your in trouble. People in the way DO NOT THINK LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE.
They can hurt, harm, abuse or toss you out like trash all in the name of God and justify it in there minds.
Untill she can wash her hands of the way international and all its mind controling doctrine, you will lose.
Untill she ventures outside the bondage of the way and sees it for what it is, posion,you will lose.
I do not wish to crush your heart for the woman you love but she has tasted freedom and broke the chains of
twi opression and started a life with you only to freely go back.
I have seen many young people leave sow some wild oats only to come back with a greater zeal for
the twi, not God or his word but the twi. It is a cult plain and simple. Many times when the young belivers
left, it was for a man/woman. Only to come back.. People by nature want to conform. They way
love bombs you and slowly takes away your freedom and its all in the name of God. Then the legalism and opression start as your own desires and normal thought process leave you. Your gut feeling is that something
is wrong and normal instincts of though ,that God gave you are replaced by a Sunday teaching service or Waymag article. Or what so and so said. They suck you back in and give you the chance to teach or lead or serve
only to fill up your time with the twi crapso you cant think. Soon the twi koolaid tastes good again and your a twi
pawn....
I have been around the cafe for years and was there at Waydale under a diffrent name. I have
looked over just about every post about the way. I have made a few good friends here.
That being said I have never met them face to face or talked on the phone with anyof them.
I have nothing to say bad about the cafe it has helped me heel and see the truth about the way.
It is a place to share and grow and express opnions, but it will never take the place of your
girlfriend. You come to the cafe for help and advice because you love her.
If she is going back she loves twi more then you. God would not make her chose the twi does.
Please cuss me out or pm if you would like to, but do not turn in to me. Do not waste your life
at the cafe because you are with someone that choses an evil concept of Gods love and relgion
over someone that loves them. I love my wife and kids and would never leave them, my burden
to carry is being stuck in twi and not living life the way I want because of the twi...
I have been in a situation that was very similar to Copenhagen's in my former splinter group. I chose to hang onto my marriage in spite of all the oposition. In the end all she (my ex-wife) had to do was walk away from our marriage, and my effort was seemingly pointless. If their is no further reward than just this life then I lost everytrhing, period. Well..... I still get to see my son.
In my opinion, believersnonebeliever, you should be willing to face the possible outcomes before you chose to stick with this fight. At least then you know what you are fighting for and you can choose. But as I was in a situation similar to Copenhagen's I can honestly say that I wouldn't wish being caught between a relationship and TWI on my worst enemy.
But it might gain you some hard won experiential knowledge of Sampson's life, even if you do not get to knock the false temple down.
until you've gone through a divorce in twi with kids, you don't begin to have a clue how much damage can happen. even after you do, you only get to see how much damage happens to you and your kids, not anyone else's.
if someone chooses to stay in so they can preserve their family, that's a hell of a lot different from a case like mine, where I had to get away because of twi-sanctioned domestic abuse. even though leaving was the best thing for me and my kids, my ex still did so much damage that it's taken 6 years to get my son back on even footing and he still has a long way to go.
you speak like you know the details of copenhagen's life, like you know for a fact he hasn't attempted to communicate to his family and that he'd be better off divorced. your arrogance and lack of compassion are very apparent.
What you can expect from TWI leadership if they become aware of who you are is more of this aggressive style of baiting. Leadership will be content if when they challenge your manhood it provokes you into doing something unwise or breaks your heart and then you give up. Either reaction will work for them.
They may also bait your girlfriend by offering her a nearly unable to be refused offer to "go and grow with God" that will also happen to take her away from you. Or they may simply command her to stop seeing you. Or they may just poison her mind against you by making your real faults seem worse than they really are.
If any of these things happen you may well feel that you have been put through the wringer. The only reason you will feel like this is because that will be what they have done to you in truth.
I am out of time on the computer for now, but I think I may feel obliged to check back at some point...sigh...here we go again.....!?
Of course someone could permanently shut down the bully, maybe this time before I spend another year fighting them....DUH!
What you can expect from TWI leadership if they become aware of who you are is more of this aggressive style of baiting. Leadership will be content if when they challenge your manhood it provokes you into doing something unwise or breaks your heart and then you give up. Either reaction will work for them.
Of course someone could permanently shut down the bully, maybe this time before I spend another year fighting them....DUH!
Removed by moderator
Dear believersnonbeliever,
Like I said, you can expect to have this kind of cruelty thrown in your face. I am not certain about many individuals' motives, the human heart being so fragile and all, but IT IS WRITTEN that people will even be more cruel than this and decieve themselves into thinking that they are serving God even.
BNB, I think you see exactly the sort of attitudes represented on this thread that you are finding working on your GF. (Drat! I see the Mods have removed OM's post, at least partially! That's how offensive it was.)
Escapees are keen to help you escape.
TWI-heads are keen to blame you.
It's obvious here. It's obvious but much deeper and with other subtleties in the handling.
Sorry your GF has gone back. You will need much patience if you choose to pursue this woman. Just don't pursue her straight into the mouth of the ravening wolf. (You'd be as stupid as Adam if you did. You'd know it's wrong but did it anyway.)
Even if she decides it's not for her, she has a long road ahead of her to get rid of the junk they've filled her head with. It can be very difficult for friends, family and other supporters just helping those who have left.
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Tzaia
Now what is it about this girl that makes you want to stay with her?
Bolshevik
She sounds internally conflicted. I wouldn't take it personally. Yes, that's normal behavior, for wayfers. I once dated a girl who went on Waydale (the precursor to Greasespot). It wasn't pretty.
Tzaia
I believe TWI's stance on things is unnecessarily divisive, and especially its stance on the trinity. I personally have no problem with how TWI teaches Jesus is not God. Who they teach Jesus is is woe
waysider
When I stumbled into the cafe, I hadn't "fellowshipped" for 15 years!
Some of this stuff becomes so ingrained, it seems impervious to time tables.
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Bolshevik
They have a website so they can say "We have a website" when they "witness". The "work" is done face to face.
If she's anything like me, Christian life is completely foreign to her mind. Aspects are mimicked as far as I can tell, but that's it. It is strangely different to me. Have you discussed the differences between The Law of Believing and Faith?
I've heard of the party scenario before. They want credit for everything. Birthdays, graduations, weddings, babies. Everything.
There's no middle ground. The Way is very much against marrying those who aren't standing, "outsiders". They will mostly work on her. Certain words her friends say trigger certain thoughts and strange emotions.
The easiest, most comforting thing for her is for you to move her way. ("join" twi). You won't get what you want/need that way. Unlikely.
Her friends will likely remain aggressive. If you walk away, they will keep "working on her" until she's comfortable with twi again. If you push, you will be doing exactly what her friends claim you would do, causing her stress.
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lindyhopper
Bingo. I wouldn't try to force her or argue about going or not going or seeing old friends or not. That just backfires. If you can put up with her friends then I would. I think if you have the option, as in an invite or are going with her to meet friends, then go with her. Lead by example, the way you did when she first left. Show her the difference between someone who truly loves her and someone who only cares for her if she is in their cult... by your actions. Everyone has to arrive at this at their own time and their own pace.
I would say don't let the Way come between you and her. If they want to break you up then let her see that through their actions. If you really love her, be there for her. Fight for her, not with her. You obviously saw something in each other back when you first got together, when she was in the Way. I doubt the two of you have changed much. Your perceptions of each others beliefs may have changed but you're still the same people. Don't let religion destroy what I imagine was a natural attraction and affection.
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Tzaia
My question is what kind of "friends" would throw a birthday party and not invite the guest of honor's boyfriend? Wouldn't that have been a perfect opportunity to get to know you better?
I would back off with a heart-felt, "I don't want to get between you and your religion." And commend her for her desire to "fix" the ministry, but you're not interested in fixing a religion, you just want to live a Christian life with a Christian woman.
To take it a step further, this is an area that will make a huge difference when it comes time to have kids. As long as her family is still involved, this is going to be an issue. Since her family is still involved, you are dealing with some hard-core people who wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them upside the head. From what I can see, everyone who could form an independent thought has been culled from the ranks. These people cannot be reasoned with and really, truly believe they are the sole holders of "the truth".
No my friend, it is time to move on.
<took out a repeat of the entire post>
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TrustAndObey
Sounds like some great advice!!!
Pure, genuine, love.. You care for her, so show it!
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TheHighWay
This is what THEY are putting into her head. But it is easier for her to follow that logic than to believe you over her long-time 'friends'.
Did she KNOW the whole truth about this situation? If she didn't, did you try to tell her? (Did she listen?) If she did and defended them anyway, I think you have a real uphill battle on your hands. -- When I was divorcing my husband, we were trying to work out a shared custody plan. His work was going to seriously interfere with the time he wanted to spend with our son. He called his boss to explain and say he simply had to find another job so he wouldn't miss out on his time with his kid. Fifteen minutes later leadership called (his boss was in twi) to tell him what a stupid decision he was making. It took them about two minutes to convince him he was putting his cop-out wife's needs over God's people and that the blessings would come only if he kept his current job. -- It was just too hard for him to stand up to the people he had come to rely on for friendship, guidance, and a direct hotline to God's wishes... he did what they told him to do and convinced himself it was the right thing.
Yes, it IS very high-school-ish. These people use every petty manipulative methodology there is, and it can be very wearing.
No, I don't think you can just oppose her involvement; that will immediately give her a reason to blame you for her unhappiness.
It's pretty hard to be supportive to people who aren't trying. (aka the 'friends') -- If they just don't like you, that's bad enough. But if they are actively trying to subvert your relationship with your GF, then I frankly don't see a way of winning them over.
Only YOU can decide what the answers are... but here are the questions I think you need to ask yourself:
-- If I knew nothing would ever change, would I stay in this relationship?
-- How much time am I willing to invest on the chance of seeing progress? (a month? six months? a year? more?)
-- What kind of changes would constitute "progress"?
-- If you only saw a little progress, would that be enough?
Ultimately, you have to do what is best for YOU. I know that sounds really selfish, especially for a practicing Christian like yourself. But if you stay in a relationship only because you want to help your girlfriend, it won't last. That's not what a healthy relationship is built on... Everyone has baggage. You just have to decide how much of her baggage you can carry without having your whole life get bogged down from the weight of it.
(edited for clarity)
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believersnonbeliever
This wonderful advice and I am so very thankful that I you all take time out of your lives to assist those that are affected by TWI. I strongly believe that w/o TWI, her and I could have a wonderful relationship. With their involvement, I am very concerned for what lies ahead. Those questions to ask myself in the previous post are so key because, even if she parts totally from fellowshipping, I would never expect or want her to abandon her family. That is ridiculous. I guess it all depends on how involved they try to be. I don't have kids, but I know me and I am the protective type. I would protect my children from this and would probably get very angry if they tried to lay this crap on them.
Again, thanks so much. This is very hard but you are a blessing to me!
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Bolshevik
believersnonbeliever,
I wish the best for both of you.
seriously.
whatever happens.
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excathedra
same here, and you sound like a good, sound person
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Mark Sanguinetti
The worse thing about the Way International is their hierarchical power structure with all religious authority at the top and with varying degrees as you go down their religious ladder. This is very much unbiblical. Here is something that I wrote that will help you in dealing with them on this. It is titled "the Lordship of Jesus Christ contrasting the lordship of Imperfect Man". Jesus Christ is Lord and not the people at the top of any religious hierarchy. Learn this lesson well and they will NEVER be able to pull anything deceptive against you. Jesus Christ was an example of service in dealing with man and our brothers and sisters in Christ. If any religious group does not show service to their brothers and sisters in Christ then they are worseless as an organization. And if any denominaiton or group insists on using controling religious power over others then they are less than worseless. Read and study this article with link below and you will not only increase your love and respect for Jesus Christ, but you will also be able to deal with most of anything that they throw at you when it comes to their religious controling power structure. The only man who is Lord is Jesus Christ.
http://www.christianherald.info/lordship-o...ist-page-1.html
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Mark Sanguinetti
Below is a link to the type of teaching that she needs to free herself of Way doctrine. It comes down to who is Lord and whose example of Lordship does one follow? The Way International leadership or the Lord Jesus Christ.
http://www.christianherald.info/lordship-o...ist-page-1.html
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believersnonbeliever
Thanks for the links. I will familiarize myself with the information. You make a good point about how contrary the way is to how Jesus was. The church I/we go to actually models Him quite well. They are encouraging to us and accept anyone into their house. They have supported us through prayer and continue to encourage me to hang in there. The opposite has happened with the way. Our problems are a result of the pressures she feels from being with me, IMO. As of yesterday, she has decided to go back, to some extent. She is going to begin fellowshipping again. We are still together, though to a lesser extent probably. Seems that whenever she is involved with TWI, the way I am treated worsens. Isn't that a sign of a loving, "tender", God loving organization?!
A couple years ago I went through a divorce and this has been much more difficult! I determined that the thing missing from that relationship was God. Well, I came to Christ and completed the Purpose Driven Life and upon finishing that I met her, within a day or so. At that exact time she was getting ready to enroll in the Way Corps, but upon meeting me decided to cancel those plans. I didn't realize until emotionally invested that TWI is what it is. But I held on tight to that belief that we were put into one anothers life for a reason.
I find myself asking God why. Why me? Is this what it means to have God in your relationship? Why do many of my friends have great relationships and no God? I know these are selfish questions, but they are honest ones.
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chockfull
Here's another tidbit of information. The Way Corps through the thriving years of the ministry (late 70's - 86 when VPW died) had hundreds of Way Corps participants. After that numbers dwindled - more recent years there have been 10 - 15 people total, including married couples with children. And some of them get kicked out before graduating. There is a large problem among the non-married Way Corps that the single women outnumber the single men to the tune of about 7 to 1. For a while there they had some policy because of this that a married Corps girl could marry a non-Corps guy with the stipulation they would both go through the Way Corps training.
So marriage and children due to the biological clock of a young woman is a major concern with respect to her what they call "spiritual goals", or desire to enter the Way Corps. Any potential mate would be scrutinized and evaluated in light of his desire and ability to do the same thing. That is probably a higher level of pressure they would put on a bf/gf situation than normal even. With numbers being what they are, the young woman has few choices.
Anyway, that's a little more of the false reality there affecting your gf. Hope that helps.
There are scriptures that talk about what benefits to an individual trials bring. You are building strength to be a good Christian husband, which is different than being just a husband without God in your relationship. Trials build patience and character. We all have our own.
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copenhagen
believersnonbeliever,
I do not want to come off harsh or mean. That being said I do tell it like it is.
I have followed this post and bit my tounge. I will try and use tact and not come off as a jerk..
My story is I am in the way and want out. My wife is in and she is there to stay. She knows
that twi is not perfect and stays because of family and friends. she thinks there is no other place
and the way is the only true place to find God and be in his favor. Yea there were bad times.
She blames it all on the past and Lcm. She thinks it was all lcm's fault and its ok now.
Truth is, the evil posion they call doctrine has not changed. There has been no policy changes in twi.
Everything you have posted about the way is true. It goes a lot deeper and the amout of people hurt
is a tradgey.
If you want a chance at a happy life, walk away now. I know this is harsh and cutting but I speak
from experience of a lonley life, trying to compete with an orginzation that spouts God but works for the devil.
If she has friends and family in its 100 times harder for a break. If she treats you bad after fellowship or
a get together with waybots your in trouble. People in the way DO NOT THINK LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE.
They can hurt, harm, abuse or toss you out like trash all in the name of God and justify it in there minds.
Untill she can wash her hands of the way international and all its mind controling doctrine, you will lose.
Untill she ventures outside the bondage of the way and sees it for what it is, posion,you will lose.
I do not wish to crush your heart for the woman you love but she has tasted freedom and broke the chains of
twi opression and started a life with you only to freely go back.
I have seen many young people leave sow some wild oats only to come back with a greater zeal for
the twi, not God or his word but the twi. It is a cult plain and simple. Many times when the young belivers
left, it was for a man/woman. Only to come back.. People by nature want to conform. They way
love bombs you and slowly takes away your freedom and its all in the name of God. Then the legalism and opression start as your own desires and normal thought process leave you. Your gut feeling is that something
is wrong and normal instincts of though ,that God gave you are replaced by a Sunday teaching service or Waymag article. Or what so and so said. They suck you back in and give you the chance to teach or lead or serve
only to fill up your time with the twi crapso you cant think. Soon the twi koolaid tastes good again and your a twi
pawn....
I have been around the cafe for years and was there at Waydale under a diffrent name. I have
looked over just about every post about the way. I have made a few good friends here.
That being said I have never met them face to face or talked on the phone with anyof them.
I have nothing to say bad about the cafe it has helped me heel and see the truth about the way.
It is a place to share and grow and express opnions, but it will never take the place of your
girlfriend. You come to the cafe for help and advice because you love her.
If she is going back she loves twi more then you. God would not make her chose the twi does.
Please cuss me out or pm if you would like to, but do not turn in to me. Do not waste your life
at the cafe because you are with someone that choses an evil concept of Gods love and relgion
over someone that loves them. I love my wife and kids and would never leave them, my burden
to carry is being stuck in twi and not living life the way I want because of the twi...
copenhagen
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JeffSjo
I have been in a situation that was very similar to Copenhagen's in my former splinter group. I chose to hang onto my marriage in spite of all the oposition. In the end all she (my ex-wife) had to do was walk away from our marriage, and my effort was seemingly pointless. If their is no further reward than just this life then I lost everytrhing, period. Well..... I still get to see my son.
In my opinion, believersnonebeliever, you should be willing to face the possible outcomes before you chose to stick with this fight. At least then you know what you are fighting for and you can choose. But as I was in a situation similar to Copenhagen's I can honestly say that I wouldn't wish being caught between a relationship and TWI on my worst enemy.
But it might gain you some hard won experiential knowledge of Sampson's life, even if you do not get to knock the false temple down.
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potato
oldies: excellent one-size-fits-all advice, twi-style.
until you've gone through a divorce in twi with kids, you don't begin to have a clue how much damage can happen. even after you do, you only get to see how much damage happens to you and your kids, not anyone else's.
if someone chooses to stay in so they can preserve their family, that's a hell of a lot different from a case like mine, where I had to get away because of twi-sanctioned domestic abuse. even though leaving was the best thing for me and my kids, my ex still did so much damage that it's taken 6 years to get my son back on even footing and he still has a long way to go.
you speak like you know the details of copenhagen's life, like you know for a fact he hasn't attempted to communicate to his family and that he'd be better off divorced. your arrogance and lack of compassion are very apparent.
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copenhagen
Oldies I will not play your games.
Potato,
Thanks for your defense but not needed I will not respond to him because everyone here at the cafe
knows him, what he represents and his love for the way international. All I will say is what I said
in my last post PEOPLE IN THE WAY DO NOT THINK LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE.
Just because they have not cashed your abs check in 20 years still does not mean they dont own you..
I feel sorry for Oldies he is a lonley oldman with out a home to call his own like his name he longs
for the good old days in the way int, he is just not invited.
I may hate the way international but I still am a christian and wish no ill will against Oldies.
Potato I feel your pain and thank you for sharing your heart here.
copenhagen
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copenhagen
Oldies,
If you feel the need to bait me or ask me questions pm me,
do not derail this thread.
This young man has a need and is looking for help, lets help.
copenhagen
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JeffSjo
Dear Believersnonebeliever,
What you can expect from TWI leadership if they become aware of who you are is more of this aggressive style of baiting. Leadership will be content if when they challenge your manhood it provokes you into doing something unwise or breaks your heart and then you give up. Either reaction will work for them.
They may also bait your girlfriend by offering her a nearly unable to be refused offer to "go and grow with God" that will also happen to take her away from you. Or they may simply command her to stop seeing you. Or they may just poison her mind against you by making your real faults seem worse than they really are.
If any of these things happen you may well feel that you have been put through the wringer. The only reason you will feel like this is because that will be what they have done to you in truth.
I am out of time on the computer for now, but I think I may feel obliged to check back at some point...sigh...here we go again.....!?
Of course someone could permanently shut down the bully, maybe this time before I spend another year fighting them....DUH!
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potato
OM, that was way out of line, even for you.
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JeffSjo
Dear believersnonbeliever,
Like I said, you can expect to have this kind of cruelty thrown in your face. I am not certain about many individuals' motives, the human heart being so fragile and all, but IT IS WRITTEN that people will even be more cruel than this and decieve themselves into thinking that they are serving God even.
(edited for spelling)
Edited by GTRemoved quoted deleted post
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copenhagen
Oldies
You have no power over me say what you want.
The cafe is not about you and your agenda, attack me all you want in a pm.
You are like a child that cannot see past their ownself.
Believe it or not this thread is not about you, its about someone looking for advice.
Help or stop derailing...
if you must spit posion or I can help pm me...
copenhagen
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GT
I don't moderate anymore, but damn if Oldie's posts weren't the most disgusting vial....
They have been deleted.
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Twinky
BNB, I think you see exactly the sort of attitudes represented on this thread that you are finding working on your GF. (Drat! I see the Mods have removed OM's post, at least partially! That's how offensive it was.)
Escapees are keen to help you escape.
TWI-heads are keen to blame you.
It's obvious here. It's obvious but much deeper and with other subtleties in the handling.
Sorry your GF has gone back. You will need much patience if you choose to pursue this woman. Just don't pursue her straight into the mouth of the ravening wolf. (You'd be as stupid as Adam if you did. You'd know it's wrong but did it anyway.)
Even if she decides it's not for her, she has a long road ahead of her to get rid of the junk they've filled her head with. It can be very difficult for friends, family and other supporters just helping those who have left.
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