Going back after leaving "The Way"

[now I see]

All her old friends though don't like me and aren't encouraging to us. They almost turn their noses up to me. My GF would like to remain friends with these people, but the few times she has socialized with them, she doesn't talk about our life or the church we attend because it "doesn't bless them..." She is very depressed and feels empty because she said SHE has turned her back to them.....

This is normal behaivor for TWI innies, they feel she has turned her back on God Almighty, she is forsaking the household inner circle of the family of God, that you are leading her astray and you're the cause of all this. They also feel she is not believing, is now no longer under the protection of God, and is open game for the adversary-the devil to pour out evil upon her life. They feel they have the only true faith, and that she has turned her back on everyone.

So, she is now wanting to go back and "ask questions" and try to maintain relationships with those in the group she was close with. She also said she feels a need to stand up, ask questions, and speak her mind about some of the Way's policies and teachings. We have fought about this because I know they are not encouraging about our relationship and because when she hangs out with them, her treatment toward me worsens. I know I am not who she saw herself with, but it is hard to support something that brings such heartache to our life.

If she does go back and ask questions of leadership they will probably not like it, one thing that is not allowed ever is questioning policies or teachings, she is likely to be banned, marked and avoided, excommunicated if she does this to anyone in a leadership position. This will get their hackles up and they will likely try to intimidate her into backing down, submitting to them, and into asking them for forgiveness, all while chewing her a new one.

Unfortunately it sounds like she is feeling a sense of loss over not having the relationships she used to with her friends still in TWI, they are likely condemning and disparaging her for her choice to leave. I hope she comes to terms with what's most important to her, and that it is her life, not theirs, I hope she decides to throw the organization and all its manipulative trappings under the bus rather than you. That is why she probably is feeling like a victim because she is loosing all those relationships, the only ones she has ever known her whole life long, I hope she sees this outcome as something they are doing to her, and she shouldn't feel responsible for it, and that it doesn't represent love or even God's love. That part makes it hard for you, she will have to make a choice between what you have now, and what she's left behind, they don't give those who've left twi a way to have any middle ground.

She seems to respond best to people that she knows that have left cause "then she knows it comes from a credible source."

This may be the best thing of all, encourage her to go to these people about what it was like when they left and had to endure the separation anxiety of leaving TWI. Hopefully she will rely on these people's experience to help her along. You may want to read the archival threads here on GreaseSpot which tell of the corruption behind the doctrine, leaders and practices of TWI, they will really open your eyes to what you've gotten yourself involved with, and expose the purposely hidden reasons why TWI and the people running it are so poisonous and so utterly corrupt.

God bless you and good luck with everything!

Edited May 28, 2009 by now I see

[believersnonbeliever]

Thanks again everybody and keep the prayers open. Is there a way for her to connect with some former members she may know? Sorry if that is a stupid question :/.

[WordWolf]

Thanks again everybody and keep the prayers open. Is there a way for her to connect with some former members she may know? Sorry if that is a stupid question :/.

*points to the Friend Finder forum*

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showforum=17

http://www.believerlinks.org/

Someone also mentioned Facebook.

[Zshot]

I have suggested that she visit this site...but she say's that it is just full of malicious people. She seems to respond best to people that she knows that have left cause "then she knows it comes from a credible source." I will look into small groups at church and suggest some form of counseling, either together or not. Thanks again and Please keep us in your prayers!!!!

Oh and thanks for the moon pie! :)

A few things about the people who come to this site...

There are different political views

There are different spiritual views

There is a variery different income levels

There are people with many different types of Jobs

There are people here who have honorably served and/or retired from the military

There are Government workers here

There are people who have seen and/or experienced various types of abuse from twi and it's "leadership"

In some cases the only thing we might have in common is being associated with twi. We post in this forum based upon our experiences, exposure and life lessons learned while in twi and upon leaving twi.

This place can be like a warning bouy for people thinking about joining twi and as a lighthouse for those who are trying to leave twi.

[excathedra]

Thanks again everybody and keep the prayers open. Is there a way for her to connect with some former members she may know? Sorry if that is a stupid question :/.

prayers open :)

i don't know really. there are some sites with former members, but i think some of them are just as screwy, imho

i'm not sure how she'll see it for herself. but i know god loves her and everything, so hopefully things will work out and she'll see

guard your heart too, you

[Bolshevik]

have you looked at Jehovah witness sites?

for the trinity talk and stuff

[My3Cents]

Most fundamentalists of any stripe (way people included) see things in black or white. For us or against us. So it's unlikely that the way people your girlfriend wants to have in her life at any level (friends, casual acquaintances, "normal" family relationships) - it's unlikely they will permit that unless she goes along with what they want her to do - not question, go to fellowship etc.

Ultimately she'll have to choose to stay involved with them on their terms or not at all - because they probably won't be flexible enough to accept her on her terms. It will be hard decision for her to make, but time away will allow her to make it with a clearer head.

Good luck.

[believersnonbeliever]

We are now attending a Reformed Christian church in our hometown and we really like it. One of her sticking points is with "The Trinity." I know this site includes people with all beliefs and backgrounds and I totally respect that. How do you feel about the way's beliefs now that you are no longer fellow shipping? Thanks!

Edited June 1, 2009 by believersnonbeliever

[Ham]

I generally hiss and spit in their direction..

it isn't beliefs in particular.. it's the fact they use their precious beliefs to herd people like cattle..

[Bolshevik]

We are now attending a Reformed Christian church in our hometown and we really like it. One of her sticking points is with "The Trinity." I know this site includes people with all beliefs and backgrounds and I totally respect that. How do you feel about the way's beliefs now that you are no longer fellow shipping? Thanks!

it's not about whether the trinity is true or not. it's not about beliefs. I don't see followers of twi as having any real beliefs.

In fact, it's more important to them that the bible says nothing about Jesus being God than whether or not God and Jesus actually exist!

It's about information. They only allow information from certain sources to be considered in their minds.

Take the idea that the trinity wasn't heard of in christianity until the 3rd century. (probably what you GF is convinced of). How does she know this is an accurate statement?

just ask her in your own way why she believes what she believes and to explain. maybe provide sources.

twi does teach that considering is doubting is an attack of the devil or some silliness. You may want to discuss why discussing your "beliefs" is important first.

[Tzaia]

We are now attending a Reformed Christian church in our hometown and we really like it. One of her sticking points is with "The Trinity." I know this site includes people with all beliefs and backgrounds and I totally respect that. How do you feel about the way's beliefs now that you are no longer fellow shipping? Thanks!

I believe TWI's stance on things is unnecessarily divisive, and especially its stance on the trinity. I personally have no problem with how TWI teaches Jesus is not God. Who they teach Jesus is is woefully inadequate. He basically takes a place behind "the word" and behind "the prevailing truth" and the "man of God."

I don't believe God exists as a triune being, either. But I really don't care anymore. I can sit and listen to almost anything now without getting riled up because I don't agree. I can't tell you how freeing that is.

[oenophile]

Believersnonbeliever,

I was married to a woman for 14 years who absolutely loathed TWI. She had taken the class because she was head over heels in love with me at the time. Right after she took the class she moved into a Way Home and quickly saw the hypocrisy such as Limb Coordinator sleeping with her housemates, the Way Home Coordinator undersheparding new people by getting under them in bed. In addition, when she brought her friends from school (she was attending optometry school at the time) to either study or just hang out, she was quickly informed that if they aren't there for the word then they aren't welcome.

The final straw as far as TWI was concerned for her happened when she was kicked out of the house (after paying rent for everyone for the previous month because no one had their rent) by the BC Fester S***h.

When we were finally married, we dealt with the elephant in the room with the understanding that I would not put pressure on her to get involved and she wouldn't nag me for doing TWI. So I think I can speak to your situation.

Your GF is getting a lot of pressure to dump you right now, as you already know. She is also getting a lot of pressure in the form of questions that leave open the possibility that something is not right with her. TWI will do its damnedest to drive a wedge between you and her. She will be told that it is a sin to open her heart to you because you are not a standing believer. Puts a kind of chill on the tenderness of a relationship, doesn't it?

I ABSOLUTELY would advise against going along to fellowships in order to save the relationship. You are like my former wife. You see TWI for what it is. You should stand your ground just like she did.

[bliss]

So sorry you have to go through this.

If her family is in = bad news.

If she doesn't fall in love or is in love with Jesus= bad news

If she isn't digging deep (like coming here) to find out WHY she believes/did believe the Way= bad news

If she is more concerned with her Way ''friends'' and the socialization more than an accurate belief in God = bad news.

If she would risk losing you to attend or please them = bad news

sorry to be so blunt. just sharing with you some warnings to look for. We just got out a few years ago.....my hubby was in since birth.......I had to convince him S L O W L Y at the same time sharing greater truths with him.

Now, he would NEVER go back.

She should climb every mountain to find out if her beliefs are sound and that starts with Google! and Greasespot!

[excathedra]

thank you oenie and bliss

(sorry, sometimes i just read the ends)

[frank123lol]

Yee Haw,Herd people like cattle,Yeah,and treat them like dirt,better yet like slaves,They(twi) does not believe

in the liberty that Christ set us free,The made free,ya got to get out of twi to discover that.

[believersnonbeliever]

Thanks again for the advice. So many questions come to mind as I read these posts. Questions that pertain to where I, her boyfriend, stand in her life. In my life, you put your loved ones first. Of course, now that I have God, I place him first, overall. But, I do not use a "hierarchy" when it comes to making decisions. I pray to God to help me in many situations, to show me what he wants to see and to lead me. There has been so many days that my GF has blown me off, canceled plans, or showed up several hours late, justifying it with excuses that all have one thing in common: "What I was doing was more important, don't get your panties in a bunch." I don't think hanging out with people from the Way or any church for that matter warrants walking over people you love. And I don't think God would want you to use Him as an excuse for those negative actions. Can someone explain this to me!

[Bolshevik]

love of power, elitism

she was taught since she was born she is better than everyone else

she has a connection with the Supreme One few have

she has access to special knowledge few do

she can see what's really going on in life, as few can

she is part of the "invisible" resistance, the enemy must be countered

YOU lack special knowledge, you can't understand yet. you're a babe in the word still. you can't see the priorities yet.

-----

it's all bull. she has nothing important to do. she likes the feeling of importance and is really just a giant Q-tip's pawn. (the q-tip is the president he he). she's not a Jedi.

she talks to you the way she's always been talked too. She thinks it's loving and caring!

she likely wants you to bend and twist into her lifeplan. if you resist or push she could see it as a threat, an attack. you never really know.

There are threads on JW sites just like this. Same old scenario.

[chockfull]

Thanks again for the advice. So many questions come to mind as I read these posts. Questions that pertain to where I, her boyfriend, stand in her life. In my life, you put your loved ones first. Of course, now that I have God, I place him first, overall. But, I do not use a "hierarchy" when it comes to making decisions. I pray to God to help me in many situations, to show me what he wants to see and to lead me. There has been so many days that my GF has blown me off, canceled plans, or showed up several hours late, justifying it with excuses that all have one thing in common: "What I was doing was more important, don't get your panties in a bunch." I don't think hanging out with people from the Way or any church for that matter warrants walking over people you love. And I don't think God would want you to use Him as an excuse for those negative actions. Can someone explain this to me!

God wouldn't want anyone to use Him as an excuse for their behavior. However, just remember that if there are people in her life that secretly disapprove of your relationship, then it would be a very common tactic to delay her or bring up some critical need to require her presence when they know of her plans to spend time with you. This would be subtle sabotage types of tactics, and if confronted on it they would most certainly deny it - it may even be subconscious for some of the brainwashed. The whole design of these tactics, of course, is to cause friction between you two, put a wedge in, and ultimately to split you up completely. Contrast this with genuine Christian behavior!!!

Of course the key to defeating this is knowing about it first. It's hard to address directly as anything you might do would come off as either needy or unreasonable. Of course turnabout is fair play. Cancel plans you have with her to do some great service for God. Then when asked about it say "what I was doing was more important, don't get your panties in a bunch". If she complains, you can say the impression you got by her behavior in X,Y,Z is that is how she wanted things, and ask if you got the wrong impression.

Just an idea of course.

[Bolshevik]

you should also realize how crushing the reality of it all will be to her. not everyone is willing to accept it.

[Twinky]

Am assuming you have asked her for details of these great Godly works that she is doing, that delay her. The blessings on the lives of others. The benefit to them. How it helps their walk to be better. Ha ha.

You could try telling her God is a God of order. If you make plans in a "Godly way" (= to meet up together at such and such a time) then tell her God knows about those plans and knew about them at the time the arrangement was made, and she should continue to work within them. That will open the door for God to bless her. Anything else is a distraction from the devil, who is always keen to frustrate God's plans.

God wants things to be done decently and in order. That involves turning up not just on time, but 10 mins early for appointments. How can you expect God to work in you, if you can't even stick to a simple plan like turning up on time?

Also, when you say you are going to do a thing, you should do it. Let your yea be yea, etc.

Of these, they are very much Way doctrine, but something of a corruption of Biblical principles by Way doctrine - out of context, etc.

Chockfull's idea of cancelling out on her isn't bad, either. You'd clearly be following her great leadership.

[Bolshevik]

"my righteousness I hold fast, I will not let it go"

It'd be interesting to hear what she thinks of that verse.

[believersnonbeliever]

Is it possible for her to realize these things? She seems like she understands a lot of the Ways issues and how "The Way" is the source of a lot of our problems. She may even be looking on this site to see that she is not alone. Again, she has not fellow shipped in probably 7 months or so and things have gotten better. Although, recently she has been pulled in that direction again, which has caused some pretty serious rifts between us. I am looking for some hope in this situation, though I am also preparing myself for the worst.

[Bolshevik]

far as I know, most retain to varying degrees twi "beliefs"/memories as a source of comfort.

that you guys can work out, that's always in the cards

[chockfull]

Is it possible for her to realize these things? She seems like she understands a lot of the Ways issues and how "The Way" is the source of a lot of our problems. She may even be looking on this site to see that she is not alone. Again, she has not fellow shipped in probably 7 months or so and things have gotten better. Although, recently she has been pulled in that direction again, which has caused some pretty serious rifts between us. I am looking for some hope in this situation, though I am also preparing myself for the worst.

my .02 - it's possible for her to realize these things. Most of us have. It just takes time / patience. A gradual awakening process - "hey, that doesn't sound Christian, etc."

[rascal]

Is it possible for her to realize these things? She seems like she understands a lot of the Ways issues and how "The Way" is the source of a lot of our problems. She may even be looking on this site to see that she is not alone. Again, she has not fellow shipped in probably 7 months or so and things have gotten better. Although, recently she has been pulled in that direction again, which has caused some pretty serious rifts between us. I am looking for some hope in this situation, though I am also preparing myself for the worst.

Many of us left wishing that things would change, hoping that maybe one day things would be different so that we could return. Many of us tried to stay involved on our own terms, but in time found that this was not possible.

I know that personally, during the last 20 years...that I have dreamed (sleeping dreams) regularly of returning to twi. The whole dream I am filled with a hope that things are different, or that I was wrong...etc that it is now safe for me.

What I am saying is, that while one separates themselves from twi, no matter how traumatic the association has been....it really isn`t all that unusual to desire to return. Most of us don`t, a few of us do only to leave again at a future date.

I don`t know how much you believe in prayer, but I am a firm believer that God knows what our triggers are, what it is that will open our eyes, what that line is that we won`t cross...I think that the only thing we can do for one another in these situations is to pray, to be kind and understanding, supportive, to be everything that twi folks have been conditioned to believe that anyone outside of twi isn`t.

For my husband, the severing point came with one line in a letter written by lcm, for me, it was hearing excathedras story (5 years after I had already left) ... when my daughter was entangled with an abusive man...a particular mind picture... uniquely personal things that suddenly wakes us up to where we can see clearly.

I am very glad that this girl has you for support. You may never know what a difference that you have made in her life. WHat seeds that you plant that will germinate at a future date.