Welcome to the Cafe! This is an interesting place, and sad to say, you will find others in the same situation as yourself.
A lot will depend on how long she has been associated with the fellowship she attends, and how close her friendships there really are (probably nothing like as close as she thinks). At some stage she will have to make the choice between you and her fellowship / TWI.
Whatever objections either of you has, have probably been discussed (more than once) here at the Cafe. You could find suitable argument / discussion / ammunition and also likely responses.
Thanks for responding. She is 25 and her parents are in The Way. She has been in it her whole life, but has secretly opposed many of the teachings as I'm sure many do. We have been going to a great church which she seems to enjoy. She really only has one "really close" friend in The Way, but she has since moved to HQ and acts dissapointed in her that she didn't follow....that she isn't believing properly. She has many other people who she cares about though, but they only seem to care about her if she is "standing." Although her parents are dissapointed, they do support her and I.
Thanks again...Just curious....What do you mean protect myself?
She has begun forming new relationships on the outside which is good. I'm afraid they will just push her down if she goes to the local Fellowship Coordinators to try to "fix" or "change."
Can somebody please shed some light on if it is dangerous for her to go to these people? Will it prolong her healing process?
This web board is filled with people who have left twi, so it's not beyond the realm of possibilities that she could leave twi too. Â That being said, whether she can make a clean break, depends on her and her willingness to leave. Â How dangerous her interactions with her fellowship gets depends on her and them, with twi you're either in or out, could she weather being shunned and disparaged by them? Â It might come down to that, they may single her out and interrogate her in order to convince her to choose between you and them, who knows, it sorta depends on her ability to make her own decisions.
Thanks for responding. She is 25 and her parents are in The Way. She has been in it her whole life, but has secretly opposed many of the teachings as I'm sure many do. We have been going to a great church which she seems to enjoy. She really only has one "really close" friend in The Way, but she has since moved to HQ and acts dissapointed in her that she didn't follow....that she isn't believing properly. She has many other people who she cares about though, but they only seem to care about her if she is "standing." Although her parents are dissapointed, they do support her and I.
Thanks again...Just curious....What do you mean protect myself?
She has begun forming new relationships on the outside which is good. I'm afraid they will just push her down if she goes to the local Fellowship Coordinators to try to "fix" or "change."
too much caffeine today I think!
First, welcome to the Cafe!!! I was involved in the Way for a long time and was about as "in" as you can get. Protecting yourself (in my opinion) starts with understanding that the Way redefines ALL words to their advantage. It's a verbal trap that will not allow you to have a real discussion. It forces you to accept a black-and-white view (theirs) of everything. There really is no middle ground with them. It's sad because I knew many very nice people in the Way who did a lot for me and hopefully, me for them.
My suggestion is to always have conversations on neutral ground. And have natural time breaks set up to give yourself an excuse to end any conversation which makes you uncomfortable. (Have to leave for school, work, etc.) That will give you a chance to listen and talk without being pressured or cornered the way you were at the class. Just my .02.
Second, I feel for you and your girlfriend. I hope you understand that the pull of this organization is like an undertow to hell. There is, according to TWI, no other ministry that teaches God's Word with accuracy and integrity. In the mid-1990s they actually taught in some areas that if you left, the Christ in you died!
My experience has been that TWI mixes some truth in with their own doctrine that they allege hasn't been known since the First Century, when actually it is known in most of the churches I've attended since.
She's gonna need a lot of support; they will immediately work with all diligence to drive a wedge in between you. I would suggest if she wants to go back to a fellowship you go together. Be aware, however, that questions are strongly discouraged; to question is to doubt; to doubt is to court death.
Oh and by the way: That fellowship leader who said you would not receive God's blessings if you left TWI? He is a liar. You will too receive God's blessings! Who is he to say what God can and cannot do in your life?
If the church you and she attend has some community groups I would strongly suggest getting involved in one of these; it will seem enough like a TWI fellowship to satisfy the need for small group closeness that many people miss when they first leave TWI, but it won't be as invasive as TWI (I hope).
If you don't feel comfortable going, hopefully together, to a pastor for counseling, some good secular counseling can help. She has basically been ripped loose from everything she knows and is used to, and may well go through a rough patch emotionally.
I am going to echo all that everyone else said.. If she was born into TWI and has only known that she is in for a bit of a struggle at first. if you can get her to come on here anonymously and just read some of the threads that may help to strengthen her resolve.
I find it interesting that her parents support your relationship.. this may mean that they are considering leaving or have left TWI or are maybe not too involved.
Like Watered Garden I will be praying for you both.
First, what a good guy you are to stand up for yourself and your girlfriend!! Kudos, my friend!
Second, I was someone who was involved with twi for 20 years. Married for 16 of those years to a die-hard-never-leave-'em fella. Eventually started questionning leadership, questioning what I had been doing for all those years, found my own spouse siding against me, and then found myself booted out of the group.
They follow a pattern:
If you question them, they will try to turn your thinking around to theirs (as described above -- shifting terms, only certain choices, etc.)
If you keep resisting them, they will make heavy threats (you are walking out from under God's protection; God cannot bless you, etc.)
If you still ask questions or resist them, they will put restrictions on your involvement and try to control your other activities in an effort to get their hooks back into you
If you still do not come around to their way of thinking, they will banish you permanently.
The process is just that simple. You are either with them or against them. There really is NO neutral ground for them. It's all part of their doctrine.
The only exceptions I have ever seen are among family members, like your girlfriend's parents. They don't like what she is doing, but they won't banish her from their family (partly because they are still hoping she will see the light someday).
The best thing you can do for your girlfriend is don't let her talk to twi people alone whenever possible. Understandably you want to let her hang out with her girlfriends and I don't see any way around that, but if she goes to talk to her leadership or folks like that, BE THERE WITH HER!! -- Her thinking is already trained to follow their lead no matter how twisted their reasoning, so if she is alone she is more likely to get sucked back into their doctrine. Hence, her being more hostile toward you whenever she has met with them. If you are there, you can catch each twist and turn and call it for what it is: BS!! I experienced this first hand... I would get my head clear and then some insider would talk to me and I'd get all messed up again. It would take me days to come back around to my own thoughts on things!
The second best thing you can do for her is to get her involved with folks and activities at your new church. Let her really see for herself what God in action is like outside twi. It's such a breath of fresh air to be among GENUINELY GODLY folks. The difference will be obvious to her. And try to help her find things she's good at, and a support system of friends outside of twi... this will do a LOT to help her see that she doesn't need them to enjoy her life. (which is exactly why they try to prevent you from forming bonds with outsiders)
Also, the threads linked in the previous post are good ones... a LOT of accurate information there!
Good luck. And keep us posted. --- Oh, and if no one has warned you yet. The WayGB (paid twi staff who read these forums) WILL figure out who you are and discuss it with the local leadership if you post too many specifics here. Do ask for more trouble than you already have... post only what will help us help you.
One important issue concerning your girlfriend and her "friends". From what you said, it sounds more like that her friends turned there backs on her more that she turned her back on them. Also, the questions must be asked, what kind of friends are they really?
Thank you so much for all of your advice, prayers and support...and for your patience with me as I try to make sense of all this. I know she see's that this is a dangerous organization or dare I say cult. She tends to downplay everything, which I understand. It's really hard for me because she does not support what I am going through, because I am an "innocent bystander" and she is the "victim." She is very angry with me and tells me that the issues I've experiences are "all in my head." I don't think she will go back to fellowship, but she may go visit members or group functions which I will attempt to attend at your advice.
I have suggested that she visit this site...but she say's that it is just full of malicious people. She seems to respond best to people that she knows that have left cause "then she knows it comes from a credible source." I will look into small groups at church and suggest some form of counseling, either together or not. Thanks again and Please keep us in your prayers!!!!
Thanks for the first post, and you are a very observant fellow. Your concerns are valid, and the emotions your girlfriend is feeling are normal for those making a clean break with TWI. The family element is very challenging, because even though her parents may be somewhat supportive there will be undercurrents of them acting just a little disappointed in her, or hints of hoping she will see the light, etc. This will be an ongoing thing, and they will not ever view you as a "brother in Christ" in their inner hearts. They will look down on you, treat you as not part of the elite "household".
What your girlfriend does not understand is that TWI makes her "friends" behave like Pharisees. Jesus called them a generation of vipers. One interesting characteristic of vipers is that they attach themselves to their victims and hold on very solidly with the purpose being to inject poison. What you will notice is when these "friends" are attached to your GF, you register the results of the poison injected. When they are not attached, no poison. "Shunning" someone who leaves or is not as committed is also a very commonly practiced tool.
In spite of this, realizing that your "friends" are not really your friends, and that they are acting like Pharisees is a very challenging thing for anyone, especially someone raised in TWI. Leadership they will deal with will have plenty of help seeing things along the TWI party lines. Standing against them, asking questions, etc. will be fruitless because for TWI they typically don't carry telling the truth in high regard. Well, actually they have whole year themes of "speaking the truth in love", and then tell outright lies when cornered. It's complete hypocrisy. The lying is a pattern all the way up to the top leadership, so changing things will be as fruitful as reforming a politician with no leverage to do so. Still, breaking away is difficult, emotional, and requires great patience in relationships.
A genuine Christian brother or sister would be truly blessed that you have found a church that ministers to both of you and provides service, teaching, and a community. A genuine Christian brother or sister would be happy for you. TWI people will never truly be this way. TWI fellowship coordinators have to report the size of their fellowships and recount people once a month, report on what they are doing to win more, and are reviewed in their jobs yearly as to how well they are accomplishing this as well as how well they are running people through classes according to the "potential" for doing so. This evaluation is more involved as you go up the ladder in positions. This infrastructure is autocratic and is concerned with the goals of the organization as opposed to true concerns about the goals of the people. You can think of it like "Amway" for Christianity.
One reason I say this is the structure is similar to pyramid marketing schemes. In TWI there are 8 layers of management between a TWI believer and the Board of Director Chairman. 8 layers. You don't see that kind of thing in the Bible anywhere, except maybe in OT Leviticus where Israel had an army, civic government, and a church to run. Each layer protects their fiefdom and falls in line with the next, or is replaced. With 8 layers, demotions and promotions between them are a very effective way to control anyone with grand ideas to change them.
I have suggested that she visit this site...but she say's that it is just full of malicious people. She seems to respond best to people that she knows that have left cause "then she knows it comes from a credible source." I will look into small groups at church and suggest some form of counseling, either together or not. Thanks again and Please keep us in your prayers!!!!
This is a common belief among TWI people and it keeps them from honestly evaluating TWI practices - if someone is labeled "malicious", then any of their personal accounts however true they are and accurate they are can be ignored or swept under the table. Also used very commonly is the phrase "there are two sides to every story". Whenever you hear that phrase, you know you are dealing with a liar.
People on GS are real people. They are not some bunch of contaminated malcontents. They are citizens of their countries, contributors, hard workers, famly people, and people who love God. Some have turned their back on God due to the abuse in TWI. They all have stories that TWI desperately wants to keep people under their control from hearing. They are stories of spiritual abuse, sexual abuse, control, and manipulation. GS is probably one of the only places on earth that they can collaborate and share information.
Gosh, your girlfriend's response is entirely normal for a "Wayfer."
Unusual for leadership to be so "out there" and open in their condemnation of you, so early in the piece. Or perhaps you are particularly observant, and have lots of experience of genuinely Godly Christians.
Stay sharp; you will need to.
Are they still calling people "possessed"? If they are, you'll probably be deemed to be such, at some stage. Why else would you wish to draw her away from "the greatness of God's Word" aka TWI?
God has called us to live in grace, not legalism. With outward manifestation of love; not in fear. They are a roaring lion (and, as they teach, a roaring lion is not attacking you, but trying to terrify you). Withstand the devil TWI and he will flee.
Do check out those threads posted earlier. You will see the way it is likely to develop. What you will be up against.
She has many other people who she cares about though, but they only seem to care about her if she is "standing."
O yea I remember the "unconditional love" as long as you meet all their conditions. <_<
Its sort of an emotional manipulation and blackmail game that can be difficult to break from--- For me it was a difficult hump to get over when I left leaving the people that I knew and thought that I was close with--- a lot of things had to be redefined in my mind, including the understanding of what a friend is, which took some time.
You did well picking up the fallacies and redflags, your instincts appear very sound. Keep that part of you alive and active and dont ever be manipulated into things that dont pass the sniff test. IMO that will be your strongest ally
What WW is trying to say is that he is not his virtual brother's keeper.
He checked in here for a while. It seemed like maybe things were dying down with the GF but he was not getting involved with TWI. His profile isn't posting any of his recent posts or threads. He seemed to have a good head on his shoulders so I figure he is not in and the question is whether his GF is still his GF and if they are if she is still in or not.
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Tzaia
Now what is it about this girl that makes you want to stay with her?
Bolshevik
She sounds internally conflicted. I wouldn't take it personally. Yes, that's normal behavior, for wayfers. I once dated a girl who went on Waydale (the precursor to Greasespot). It wasn't pretty.
Tzaia
I believe TWI's stance on things is unnecessarily divisive, and especially its stance on the trinity. I personally have no problem with how TWI teaches Jesus is not God. Who they teach Jesus is is woe
Bolshevik
You may need to protect yourself first. Often, there's no middle ground with these people.
She cannot change The Way International or her freinds.
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Twinky
Welcome to the Cafe! This is an interesting place, and sad to say, you will find others in the same situation as yourself.
A lot will depend on how long she has been associated with the fellowship she attends, and how close her friendships there really are (probably nothing like as close as she thinks). At some stage she will have to make the choice between you and her fellowship / TWI.
Whatever objections either of you has, have probably been discussed (more than once) here at the Cafe. You could find suitable argument / discussion / ammunition and also likely responses.
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Twinky
Have a look at these two threads to see how things worked for someone in very much your situation:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=405274
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=405909
Brushstroke is still a Cafe denizen, if you want to ask him anything by, say, private messaging him.
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geisha779
What about talking to someone like John Juedes? http://www.abouttheway.org/ He knows about TWI and dealing with the people involved.
Hank Hanegraaff is also familar with TWI.
Maybe your pastor?
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believersnonbeliever
Thanks for responding. She is 25 and her parents are in The Way. She has been in it her whole life, but has secretly opposed many of the teachings as I'm sure many do. We have been going to a great church which she seems to enjoy. She really only has one "really close" friend in The Way, but she has since moved to HQ and acts dissapointed in her that she didn't follow....that she isn't believing properly. She has many other people who she cares about though, but they only seem to care about her if she is "standing." Although her parents are dissapointed, they do support her and I.
Thanks again...Just curious....What do you mean protect myself?
She has begun forming new relationships on the outside which is good. I'm afraid they will just push her down if she goes to the local Fellowship Coordinators to try to "fix" or "change."
too much caffeine today I think!
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now I see
This web board is filled with people who have left twi, so it's not beyond the realm of possibilities that she could leave twi too. Â That being said, whether she can make a clean break, depends on her and her willingness to leave. Â How dangerous her interactions with her fellowship gets depends on her and them, with twi you're either in or out, could she weather being shunned and disparaged by them? Â It might come down to that, they may single her out and interrogate her in order to convince her to choose between you and them, who knows, it sorta depends on her ability to make her own decisions.
How strong is her resolve not to ever go back?
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Bolshevik
I mean you don't want to get intangled with this. If she decides to stay with twi . . . well . .
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JustThinking
First, welcome to the Cafe!!! I was involved in the Way for a long time and was about as "in" as you can get. Protecting yourself (in my opinion) starts with understanding that the Way redefines ALL words to their advantage. It's a verbal trap that will not allow you to have a real discussion. It forces you to accept a black-and-white view (theirs) of everything. There really is no middle ground with them. It's sad because I knew many very nice people in the Way who did a lot for me and hopefully, me for them.
My suggestion is to always have conversations on neutral ground. And have natural time breaks set up to give yourself an excuse to end any conversation which makes you uncomfortable. (Have to leave for school, work, etc.) That will give you a chance to listen and talk without being pressured or cornered the way you were at the class. Just my .02.
JT
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Bolshevik
maybe take her to Hawaii. Don't let her tell anyone (in twi).
let her clear her head.
help her find new friends and new hobbies. get involved with a good cause. something else to think about and do.
are her folks out?
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Watered Garden
First, let me add my greetings and welcome!
Second, I feel for you and your girlfriend. I hope you understand that the pull of this organization is like an undertow to hell. There is, according to TWI, no other ministry that teaches God's Word with accuracy and integrity. In the mid-1990s they actually taught in some areas that if you left, the Christ in you died!
My experience has been that TWI mixes some truth in with their own doctrine that they allege hasn't been known since the First Century, when actually it is known in most of the churches I've attended since.
She's gonna need a lot of support; they will immediately work with all diligence to drive a wedge in between you. I would suggest if she wants to go back to a fellowship you go together. Be aware, however, that questions are strongly discouraged; to question is to doubt; to doubt is to court death.
Oh and by the way: That fellowship leader who said you would not receive God's blessings if you left TWI? He is a liar. You will too receive God's blessings! Who is he to say what God can and cannot do in your life?
If the church you and she attend has some community groups I would strongly suggest getting involved in one of these; it will seem enough like a TWI fellowship to satisfy the need for small group closeness that many people miss when they first leave TWI, but it won't be as invasive as TWI (I hope).
If you don't feel comfortable going, hopefully together, to a pastor for counseling, some good secular counseling can help. She has basically been ripped loose from everything she knows and is used to, and may well go through a rough patch emotionally.
Good luck and I'll be praying for you!
WG
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waysider
Based on your opening post, it sounds like you've already gotten more than a glimpse behind the curtain that is TWI theology.
Welcome to GSC!
First Moon Pie is on the house.
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leafytwiglet
I am going to echo all that everyone else said.. If she was born into TWI and has only known that she is in for a bit of a struggle at first. if you can get her to come on here anonymously and just read some of the threads that may help to strengthen her resolve.
I find it interesting that her parents support your relationship.. this may mean that they are considering leaving or have left TWI or are maybe not too involved.
Like Watered Garden I will be praying for you both.
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TheHighWay
Welcome, welcome, welcome!!
First, what a good guy you are to stand up for yourself and your girlfriend!! Kudos, my friend!
Second, I was someone who was involved with twi for 20 years. Married for 16 of those years to a die-hard-never-leave-'em fella. Eventually started questionning leadership, questioning what I had been doing for all those years, found my own spouse siding against me, and then found myself booted out of the group.
They follow a pattern:
If you question them, they will try to turn your thinking around to theirs (as described above -- shifting terms, only certain choices, etc.)
If you keep resisting them, they will make heavy threats (you are walking out from under God's protection; God cannot bless you, etc.)
If you still ask questions or resist them, they will put restrictions on your involvement and try to control your other activities in an effort to get their hooks back into you
If you still do not come around to their way of thinking, they will banish you permanently.
The process is just that simple. You are either with them or against them. There really is NO neutral ground for them. It's all part of their doctrine.
The only exceptions I have ever seen are among family members, like your girlfriend's parents. They don't like what she is doing, but they won't banish her from their family (partly because they are still hoping she will see the light someday).
The best thing you can do for your girlfriend is don't let her talk to twi people alone whenever possible. Understandably you want to let her hang out with her girlfriends and I don't see any way around that, but if she goes to talk to her leadership or folks like that, BE THERE WITH HER!! -- Her thinking is already trained to follow their lead no matter how twisted their reasoning, so if she is alone she is more likely to get sucked back into their doctrine. Hence, her being more hostile toward you whenever she has met with them. If you are there, you can catch each twist and turn and call it for what it is: BS!! I experienced this first hand... I would get my head clear and then some insider would talk to me and I'd get all messed up again. It would take me days to come back around to my own thoughts on things!
The second best thing you can do for her is to get her involved with folks and activities at your new church. Let her really see for herself what God in action is like outside twi. It's such a breath of fresh air to be among GENUINELY GODLY folks. The difference will be obvious to her. And try to help her find things she's good at, and a support system of friends outside of twi... this will do a LOT to help her see that she doesn't need them to enjoy her life. (which is exactly why they try to prevent you from forming bonds with outsiders)
Also, the threads linked in the previous post are good ones... a LOT of accurate information there!
Good luck. And keep us posted. --- Oh, and if no one has warned you yet. The WayGB (paid twi staff who read these forums) WILL figure out who you are and discuss it with the local leadership if you post too many specifics here. Do ask for more trouble than you already have... post only what will help us help you.
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Zshot
Greetings and welcome to Greasespot.
One important issue concerning your girlfriend and her "friends". From what you said, it sounds more like that her friends turned there backs on her more that she turned her back on them. Also, the questions must be asked, what kind of friends are they really?
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excathedra
dear believersnonbeliever --
i don't know, when i was in the way, i would have called you an "unbelieving believer" -- a believer that is not IN THE WAY lol
going back is a waste, but i absolutely feel for you and your girlfriend
i wish you luck and happiness
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believersnonbeliever
Thank you so much for all of your advice, prayers and support...and for your patience with me as I try to make sense of all this. I know she see's that this is a dangerous organization or dare I say cult. She tends to downplay everything, which I understand. It's really hard for me because she does not support what I am going through, because I am an "innocent bystander" and she is the "victim." She is very angry with me and tells me that the issues I've experiences are "all in my head." I don't think she will go back to fellowship, but she may go visit members or group functions which I will attempt to attend at your advice.
I have suggested that she visit this site...but she say's that it is just full of malicious people. She seems to respond best to people that she knows that have left cause "then she knows it comes from a credible source." I will look into small groups at church and suggest some form of counseling, either together or not. Thanks again and Please keep us in your prayers!!!!
Oh and thanks for the moon pie! :)
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chockfull
Thanks for the first post, and you are a very observant fellow. Your concerns are valid, and the emotions your girlfriend is feeling are normal for those making a clean break with TWI. The family element is very challenging, because even though her parents may be somewhat supportive there will be undercurrents of them acting just a little disappointed in her, or hints of hoping she will see the light, etc. This will be an ongoing thing, and they will not ever view you as a "brother in Christ" in their inner hearts. They will look down on you, treat you as not part of the elite "household".
What your girlfriend does not understand is that TWI makes her "friends" behave like Pharisees. Jesus called them a generation of vipers. One interesting characteristic of vipers is that they attach themselves to their victims and hold on very solidly with the purpose being to inject poison. What you will notice is when these "friends" are attached to your GF, you register the results of the poison injected. When they are not attached, no poison. "Shunning" someone who leaves or is not as committed is also a very commonly practiced tool.
In spite of this, realizing that your "friends" are not really your friends, and that they are acting like Pharisees is a very challenging thing for anyone, especially someone raised in TWI. Leadership they will deal with will have plenty of help seeing things along the TWI party lines. Standing against them, asking questions, etc. will be fruitless because for TWI they typically don't carry telling the truth in high regard. Well, actually they have whole year themes of "speaking the truth in love", and then tell outright lies when cornered. It's complete hypocrisy. The lying is a pattern all the way up to the top leadership, so changing things will be as fruitful as reforming a politician with no leverage to do so. Still, breaking away is difficult, emotional, and requires great patience in relationships.
A genuine Christian brother or sister would be truly blessed that you have found a church that ministers to both of you and provides service, teaching, and a community. A genuine Christian brother or sister would be happy for you. TWI people will never truly be this way. TWI fellowship coordinators have to report the size of their fellowships and recount people once a month, report on what they are doing to win more, and are reviewed in their jobs yearly as to how well they are accomplishing this as well as how well they are running people through classes according to the "potential" for doing so. This evaluation is more involved as you go up the ladder in positions. This infrastructure is autocratic and is concerned with the goals of the organization as opposed to true concerns about the goals of the people. You can think of it like "Amway" for Christianity.
One reason I say this is the structure is similar to pyramid marketing schemes. In TWI there are 8 layers of management between a TWI believer and the Board of Director Chairman. 8 layers. You don't see that kind of thing in the Bible anywhere, except maybe in OT Leviticus where Israel had an army, civic government, and a church to run. Each layer protects their fiefdom and falls in line with the next, or is replaced. With 8 layers, demotions and promotions between them are a very effective way to control anyone with grand ideas to change them.
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waysider
(edit for 2x)
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chockfull
This is a common belief among TWI people and it keeps them from honestly evaluating TWI practices - if someone is labeled "malicious", then any of their personal accounts however true they are and accurate they are can be ignored or swept under the table. Also used very commonly is the phrase "there are two sides to every story". Whenever you hear that phrase, you know you are dealing with a liar.
People on GS are real people. They are not some bunch of contaminated malcontents. They are citizens of their countries, contributors, hard workers, famly people, and people who love God. Some have turned their back on God due to the abuse in TWI. They all have stories that TWI desperately wants to keep people under their control from hearing. They are stories of spiritual abuse, sexual abuse, control, and manipulation. GS is probably one of the only places on earth that they can collaborate and share information.
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Twinky
Gosh, your girlfriend's response is entirely normal for a "Wayfer."
Unusual for leadership to be so "out there" and open in their condemnation of you, so early in the piece. Or perhaps you are particularly observant, and have lots of experience of genuinely Godly Christians.
Stay sharp; you will need to.
Are they still calling people "possessed"? If they are, you'll probably be deemed to be such, at some stage. Why else would you wish to draw her away from "the greatness of God's Word" aka TWI?
God has called us to live in grace, not legalism. With outward manifestation of love; not in fear. They are a roaring lion (and, as they teach, a roaring lion is not attacking you, but trying to terrify you). Withstand the devil TWI and he will flee.
Do check out those threads posted earlier. You will see the way it is likely to develop. What you will be up against.
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mstar1
O yea I remember the "unconditional love" as long as you meet all their conditions. <_<
Its sort of an emotional manipulation and blackmail game that can be difficult to break from--- For me it was a difficult hump to get over when I left leaving the people that I knew and thought that I was close with--- a lot of things had to be redefined in my mind, including the understanding of what a friend is, which took some time.
You did well picking up the fallacies and redflags, your instincts appear very sound. Keep that part of you alive and active and dont ever be manipulated into things that dont pass the sniff test. IMO that will be your strongest ally
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believersnonbeliever
Any idea what happened with Brushstroke (the threads on the fist page)?
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WordWolf
If I were to take a guess, he hasn't checked in yet. Not everyone checks in daily.
Other than that, what I know is what he posted.
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lindyhopper
What WW is trying to say is that he is not his virtual brother's keeper.
He checked in here for a while. It seemed like maybe things were dying down with the GF but he was not getting involved with TWI. His profile isn't posting any of his recent posts or threads. He seemed to have a good head on his shoulders so I figure he is not in and the question is whether his GF is still his GF and if they are if she is still in or not.
Find out next week on The Hills: The Way Edition.
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