the "good" times

[geisha779]

How is it realistic to take an entire significant portion of your life and write it off as bad because of TWI. You can't do it. . . or if one does, it might cause such anger, bitterness and resentment, life could get pretty hard.

Life is messy. . . no? I can't change the bad past or the good past, but I own it. . . it is what happened.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that TWI isn't abusive or that it isn't an ugly cult. Doesn't change the fact that my kids were born while I was in TWI and it was Way people around me for those milestone events in my life. TWIers stood up with us at our wedding. . . TWI clergy performed the ceremony. . . it was in a Way persons house.

These were good times. . . mine. . . doesn't chnge what TWI is or was then. But, it wasn't all bad. I had fun at the Rock, saw people I did care about. Always got a great tan.

I really wonder how realistic it is to expect people who have been in 30+ years to come out and say "Well that was a waste of time".

Seems to me. . . it was our life. . . we have to somehow deal with the memories and how it shaped us. . . at least in a way we can function and move on with.

Life is too short.

[now I see]

Bolshevik, does the younger generation really get blamed for the lack of good times like back in the '70's?

[Bolshevik]

Bolshevik, does the younger generation really get blamed for the lack of good times like back in the '70's?

that's the way I perceive it.

and I believe some of the young folks live in their minds like it is the 1970s. They weren't even born yet, but act like they were there, and will share that experience with excitement.

[now I see]

That's pretty twisted, who is doing this, the parents, twi leaders, everyone?

[waysider]

I did not go to Woodstock------I might not go again.

[excathedra]

the good times ?

for me personally, they must be weighed against the bad times

i had a lot of fun with friends and i love them to this day

but i also had a lot of fun with my sibs growing up, but we're still pretty twisted because of the violence and darkness in our lives as children

most of them don't want to talk about those times

[Bolshevik]

I wonder which group(s) of people had the best time.

[socks]

I did not go to Woodstock------I might not go again.

What's that joke? Half the country were there for the whole thing and the other half got there late?

But everybody saw Hendrix!

[Bolshevik]

How is it realistic to take an entire significant portion of your life and write it off as bad because of TWI. You can't do it. . . or if one does, it might cause such anger, bitterness and resentment, life could get pretty hard.

Life is messy. . . no? I can't change the bad past or the good past, but I own it. . . it is what happened.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that TWI isn't abusive or that it isn't an ugly cult. Doesn't change the fact that my kids were born while I was in TWI and it was Way people around me for those milestone events in my life. TWIers stood up with us at our wedding. . . TWI clergy performed the ceremony. . . it was in a Way persons house.

These were good times. . . mine. . . doesn't chnge what TWI is or was then. But, it wasn't all bad. I had fun at the Rock, saw people I did care about. Always got a great tan.

I really wonder how realistic it is to expect people who have been in 30+ years to come out and say "Well that was a waste of time".

Seems to me. . . it was our life. . . we have to somehow deal with the memories and how it shaped us. . . at least in a way we can function and move on with.

Life is too short.

I know a number of cases,

The parents had a good time.

The kids did not. It did waste time and money and set up imaginary and unimaginary obstacles. The grandparents watched and prayed and shook their heads.

I guess every party has a price tag.

[GeorgeStGeorge]

that's the way I perceive it.

and I believe some of the young folks live in their minds like it is the 1970s. They weren't even born yet, but act like they were there, and will share that experience with excitement.

At least now I understand what you meant.

I guess that if there ARE folks saying "We had good times in TWI, why don't you?" that would be rather obnoxious. But don't get mad at others, just because they DID have good times!

George

[RumRunner]

Might be a temporal context issue. Early 70's we were all a bunch of hippies smoking herb and enjoying life - and perhaps looking for something more (Timothy Leary's dead - no he's on the outside looking in). The good life was well ya know - finding jesus (or whatever) and still being a hippie. New Cornville was a long way away - we never saw Vic - never heard of the corps - had our little jesus twigs and blew up some fine reef after wards... No doubt New Cornville was already corrupt and destructive but we never saw them from where we were out in Dogpatch. Just a voice on an occasional SNS tape that someone brought in 6 months late.

Were those good times in context? Sure. But they were also the foundation for later destruction at a mass level.

The good times had ZERO to do with Vic the rapist or Craig the forehead - it was all too new and we didn't care about something called HQ. The centrism that later developed became the downfall (thank Lucifer) of that rotting organization. A lot of us hippies - well we just stayed hippies after we left. Yep - got jobs and professions - but stayed loose souls.

My parting song for TWI's last ROA would be Grateful Dead - "Ship of Fools"

[geisha779]

I know a number of cases,

The parents had a good time.

The kids did not. It did waste time and money and set up imaginary and unimaginary obstacles. The grandparents watched and prayed and shook their heads.

I guess every party has a price tag.

I am not saying TWI didn't have a price tag. I just think it is unrealistic to write off a whole portion of ones life as "All bad".

I am sure being raised in a religion like TWI is difficult if it is not something you choose for yourself. Lots of people outside of TWI have faced similar childhoods. Heck, that might be the reason some fell into it in the first place.

My point is. . . it wasn't all bad all the time. If it was most of us would never have continued on with it for so long.

If it was such a horrible upbringing for you and others. . . I am really sorry.

You don't have one or times growing up that you look back on and smile?? Not one good time the whole time you were around TWI?

I don't like TWI or its doctrines or its methods. . . doesn't mean I don't care about the people I knew while in. . . or remember them fondly or even remember the good times I had with them.

One experience doesn't cancel out the other. My bad experiences in TWI were PLENTY. . . but they don't negate the good times. Just like in other areas of my life. Sad times don't cancel out the happy. It is life. . . not always all good and not always all bad.

[chockfull]

The good times and the time spent are kind of the turning point for people. Some see those and it motivates them to turn a blind eye to the evil that occurs and the source and infrastructure that delivers it. Others see both and are hurt because they see their wasted life in being bound up in it. Yet others see both and cherish their past in spite of obstacles and make a better future.

[George Aar]

I am not saying TWI didn't have a price tag. I just think it is unrealistic to write off a whole portion of ones life as "All bad".

I know this wasn't directed at me specifically, but I had to respond. I think of it more like if one spent a good deal of their life as an alcoholic, or a drug addict. Would you ever look back at that period of your life with anything but a good deal of regret? The dopey, superstitious, icky religiosity that was WayWorld culture will forever taint the memory of that portion of my life. So, was my life all bad during my tenure at WayWorld? No, but TWI did NOTHING to add to it. It was a net minus, no matter how you look at it.

You don't have one or times growing up that you look back on and smile?? Not one good time the whole time you were around TWI?

NO, I don't. Sure, there were things I did and experienced at the time that I still remember fondly. But those things have nothing to do with TWI.

One experience doesn't cancel out the other. My bad experiences in TWI were PLENTY. . . but they don't negate the good times. Just like in other areas of my life. Sad times don't cancel out the happy. It is life. . . not always all good and not always all bad.

But a greivous sham like WayWorld casts a pall over your life. Being suckered and used will always bother me. No matter that there may have been a sugarcoating at times.

None of the events of WayWorld were ever dear to me. They were always just obligations. The classes - something I had to do to be a good Christian, the fellowships, likewise. The "Rock" - well it was nice to see people you hadn't seen in awhile, but, after a day or so, did you really want to hang around anymore? I sure didn't. Going "W.O.W.", again, something I thought was necessary so I could really finally become that person that was advertized in "The Class". It never happened.

When you look back and realize that the focus of your life for 15 years or so was horribly misguided, how do you put a happy face on that and glean all those "good times"? I don't think you can and still mantain any sort of intellectual honesty.

Do you have warm and fuzzy thoughts about the time you sold Amway for a few months? Or when you lost a load of cash on the slots in Vegas? Or even when you lost a little dough trying to win that big stuffed animal at the carnival? No? Why not?

And that's what irritates some of us around here when others try to mitigate their wasted time in the cult with all those warm and fuzzy stories. If you try to tell us that WayWorld was really something - at least parttime - wonderful, then you negate OUR experience. Either it was an abusive, destructive, con or it wasn't. The fact that some of us didn't notice, or didn't mind, - or even enjoyed - the abuse does nothing to mollify the real "heart" of the cult...

[Bolshevik]

I am not saying TWI didn't have a price tag. I just think it is unrealistic to write off a whole portion of ones life as "All bad".

I am sure being raised in a religion like TWI is difficult if it is not something you choose for yourself. Lots of people outside of TWI have faced similar childhoods. Heck, that might be the reason some fell into it in the first place.

My point is. . . it wasn't all bad all the time. If it was most of us would never have continued on with it for so long.

If it was such a horrible upbringing for you and others. . . I am really sorry.

You don't have one or times growing up that you look back on and smile?? Not one good time the whole time you were around TWI?

I don't like TWI or its doctrines or its methods. . . doesn't mean I don't care about the people I knew while in. . . or remember them fondly or even remember the good times I had with them.

One experience doesn't cancel out the other. My bad experiences in TWI were PLENTY. . . but they don't negate the good times. Just like in other areas of my life. Sad times don't cancel out the happy. It is life. . . not always all good and not always all bad.

I'm well aware worse things are out there. Much worse.

I'm not really talking about childhood. Any good times, if there were any for me, were an illusion, it wasn't real, so I've worked to forget them as much as possible. All was a lie, there's no use for those memories. Maybe some lies are good?

It's the lesson that in order for one person to enjoy life, another must suffer. So we handle it by telling those who pay the price that it is their problem. That's life. "I got mine, sorry about your luck."

vpw didn't want it all bad all the time. he wanted you to have a good time.

[Bolshevik]

At least now I understand what you meant.

I guess that if there ARE folks saying "We had good times in TWI, why don't you?" that would be rather obnoxious. But don't get mad at others, just because they DID have good times!

George

I don't think I'm alone when I say that I view your good times as a means to an end. you were used. good times were a means to other things. were they not?

[GrouchoMarxJr]

I suppose you could find a few guys who spent time in prison together and they could talk about the "good times" too...

The fact is...we were conned into a cult...and in my opinion it was a total waste of time.

[waysider]

I did not go to Woodstock------I might not go again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ0dITCRteM

[excathedra]

I wonder which group(s) of people had the best time.

interesting question. my guess -- oh i don't know -- would be the users living the high life -- people without a conscience maybe -- gotta think about that one

and now i want to go back and quote something else you said, bolsh

I'm well aware worse things are out there. Much worse.

I'm not really talking about childhood. Any good times, if there were any for me, were an illusion, it wasn't real, so I've worked to forget them as much as possible. All was a lie, there's no use for those memories. Maybe some lies are good?

It's the lesson that in order for one person to enjoy life, another must suffer. So we handle it by telling those who pay the price that it is their problem. That's life. "I got mine, sorry about your luck."

vpw didn't want it all bad all the time. he wanted you to have a good time.

--

good points. i don't know what lies could be good, really

i also liked your post about people living in their minds things they didin't even live. how f'd up is that

--

i also think i convinced myself life was good when it was terrible

[now I see]

 I am not saying TWI didn't have a price tag. I just think it is unrealistic to write off a whole portion of ones life as "All bad".

I know this is not directed toward me as well, but..

I paid a tremendous price by getting my life path diverted by twi, and I will pay for it for the rest of my life... it is entirely significant that I was scammed into twi and was under it's influence from 1975 till 2006 when I finally discovered the real truth here on GreaseSpot.

I know this wasn't directed at me specifically, but I had to respond. I think of it more like if one spent a good deal of their life as an alcoholic, or a drug addict. Would you ever look back at that period of your life with anything but a good deal of regret? The dopey, superstitious, icky religiosity that was WayWorld culture will forever taint the memory of that portion of my life. So, was my life all bad during my tenure at WayWorld? No, but TWI did NOTHING to add to it. It was a net minus, no matter how you look at it.

Very good analogy of the drug addict.

One experience doesn't cancel out the other. My bad experiences in TWI were PLENTY. . . but they don't negate the good times. Just like in other areas of my life. Sad times don't cancel out the happy. It is life. . . not always all good and not always all bad.

But a greivous sham like WayWorld casts a pall over your life. Being suckered and used will always bother me. No matter that there may have been a sugarcoating at times.

I agree completely with this sentiment.  That's not to say we can't go beyond the loss, we can, it is important to remeber the bad as well as the good,  this website serves as a cautionary warning about it to others.

When you look back and realize that the focus of your life for 15 years or so was horribly misguided, how do you put a happy face on that and glean all those "good times"? I don't think you can and still mantain any sort of intellectual honesty.

Do you have warm and fuzzy thoughts about the time you sold Amway for a few months? Or when you lost a load of cash on the slots in Vegas? Or even when you lost a little dough trying to win that big stuffed animal at the carnival? No? Why not?

And that's what irritates some of us around here when others try to mitigate their wasted time in the cult with all those warm and fuzzy stories. If you try to tell us that WayWorld was really something - at least parttime - wonderful, then you negate OUR experience. Either it was an abusive, destructive, con or it wasn't. The fact that some of us didn't notice, or didn't mind, - or even enjoyed - the abuse does nothing to mollify the real "heart" of the cult...

Perfectly stated.

I think it all depends on how big a price you paid and how significant it was to your life, some had greater burdens to bear than others.

Regarding what Bolsh said about childhood, I know some extwi high ranking reverends whose children won't even talk to them because of all the bullsh... they put them through as children...

Edited May 27, 2009 by now I see

[waysider]

The price we paid.------Isn't that really what it boils down to?

[geisha779]

What warm and fuzzy stories about TWI? HUH? Who didn't pay a high price? Doesn't change that we shared a significant part of our lives with each other.

The good and the bad.

Genuine or feigned. . . I can only control what I feel for others.

Nobody suffered so I could party in TWI. The electric was turned off more than once. . . . the phone was hit or miss.

I was rank and file remembering rank and file. The people who were there when my son was sick. . . who drove me around and raised money for us. . . the women who helped when my kids were born. . . the ones who opened their home to us for our wedding.

There were some good people in TWI who were generous and kind and thought they were serving God. They were tricked just like me. Doesn't mean they were wicked or evil.

Sometimes we had fun together. It doesn't mean I couldn't have done something better with my life. . . I could have.

I take what little good I can from it. . . what is the alternative? I can't go back and change it.

It is what it is.

[GeorgeStGeorge]

I don't think I'm alone when I say that I view your good times as a means to an end. you were used. good times were a means to other things. were they not?

I don't think my good times were a "means" for your discomfort, if that's what you're implying.

My PhD was a "means to an end."

My marriage is a "means to an end."

I enjoy them both, even if others had crappy times in grad school, or crappy marriages.

My life ain't about you.

George

[chockfull]

When you look back and realize that the focus of your life for 15 years or so was horribly misguided, how do you put a happy face on that and glean all those "good times"? I don't think you can and still mantain any sort of intellectual honesty.

Do you have warm and fuzzy thoughts about the time you sold Amway for a few months? Or when you lost a load of cash on the slots in Vegas? Or even when you lost a little dough trying to win that big stuffed animal at the carnival? No? Why not?

And that's what irritates some of us around here when others try to mitigate their wasted time in the cult with all those warm and fuzzy stories. If you try to tell us that WayWorld was really something - at least parttime - wonderful, then you negate OUR experience. Either it was an abusive, destructive, con or it wasn't. The fact that some of us didn't notice, or didn't mind, - or even enjoyed - the abuse does nothing to mollify the real "heart" of the cult...

Yes, that's the biggest challenge of it all. Sometimes I'm tempted to think "well I had a pure heart towards God". And yet the intellectual honesty and recollection of past actions certainly indicate that I was tainted by it as well. I do have some good memories, as I'm sure do all. They were usually times of pure believing and uninfluenced love of God functioning. Can small groups of people being conned still have these genuine times? I think undoubtedly yes, otherwise people would not remain in the group and ignore the con, sweeping things under the carpet.

Nothing is ALL good (besides God), or ALL bad.

For me there was a tipping point, caused by decades of small things out of place, that resulted in an awakening to the evil. Before that I was blind.

I'm left feeling ripped off, with sorrow for what I could have had if I had not believed the con. So all I can do now is focus on some of God's promises like Joel 2:25, that He will restore the years the locusts have eaten.

[Bolshevik]

I don't think my good times were a "means" for your discomfort, if that's what you're implying.

My PhD was a "means to an end."

My marriage is a "means to an end."

I enjoy them both, even if others had crappy times in grad school, or crappy marriages.

My life ain't about you.

George

so, are you saying vpw meant well?

you had/have nothing to do with The Way International?

The Way International is not good or bad? It's for some but not others?

---------------------------

I don't know why some feel sick to their stomach and others shrug and say, "Well, I had a good time."