Geisha dear - While I disagree with you on many if not most doctrinal issues I usually find your posts to be logical and thought through in some detail. However - I have to agree with rascal on something - it seems (note the word seems not pronouncing the sentence of death on you) that you are coming on a little strong with Brainfixed - someone having recently made the break and someone who came here looking for additional insight. You are strong minded and strong willed - no doubt serves you well in your prison outreach - however Brainfixed could use a softer touch I suspect. Uhh and yes - your lack of tact does indeed have a certain charm. And you need to keep working on cynicism for that A grade.
Bear in mind that there are those of us who got in as dope smoking teens by our own choice - and now a whole crop of posters who were raised in TWI - not joined by choice. I think the issues may be radically different for those two groups.
note of clarification here, i am not recently out of the way but i left when i was 18 and i am much older than that now. my apologies if i haven't made that perfectly clear.
i am recently participating here but i have been reading here for about a year or so.
note of clarification here, i am not recently out of the way but i left when i was 18 and i am much older than that now. my apologies if i haven't made that perfectly clear.
i am recently participating here but i have been reading here for about a year or so.
Dooj, it appears to me that you don`t agree with my view point so you label it as *black and white thinking. Well, I don`t happen to agree with you. I don`t think that diminishes my pov, it`s significance or possible impact.
Glad your amused rumrunner....really.... Fortunately, I don`t give damn whether you understand or agree with my thoughts or not.
It is my opinion, that your lack of appreciation for input that doesn`t line up with your way of thinking does not necessarily invalidate what I have to contribute.
Glad your amused rumrunner....really.... Fortunately, I don`t give damn whether you understand or agree with my thoughts or not.
It is my opinion, that your lack of appreciation for input that doesn`t line up with your way of thinking does not necessarily invalidate what I have to contribute.
Why you poor poor victim - go read my post to Geisha - I made it quite clear that while I don't agree with her on many things I appreciated her posts. Your opinion is typical. Everything is black and white it seems for you rascal - it's rascal's way or you are somehow victimizing rascal.
Go smoke something good - you need to relax. Put on some Grateful Dead and get your oil changed.
BTW I am glad you don't give a damn about whether or not I agree with you. jesus christmas at least I'm not trying to start my own victim cult here like some unnamed people are.
Dooj, as I see it, you don`t agree with my view point, so it seems you must label it as *black and white thinking....I don`t happen to agree with you.... I don`t think that diminishes my pov, it`s significance or possible impact on another.
I don't agree with your viewpoint.
I do view your POV as black/white thinking.
I'm fine that we don't agree.
Perhaps you missed one of my earlier posts where I acknowledged the many different posters here and their POVs:
Just throwing out an idea here:
Sometimes I think there's a journey that arises from what a person needs at the time:
*Some need to forget - because remembering is too painful
*Some need to remember - because forgetting is too costly
*Some need to rebel - because rebellion offers some form of control
*Some need to conform - because conforming offers some peace from the friction
*Some need to speak out - because they have been silenced too long
*Some need to listen - because listening offers perspective
There is no order, rhyme or reason to this journey. Some may not need any of it - they just turn their back and walk away.
There is no formula, no cookie cutter answer as to when or how a person travels from a cult. Cookie cutter answers and quick fixes never really do much. Wasn't it the search for a quick and easy answer that started the mess for many of us?
Just one class...
Just these ten promises...
Just this one green card...
Just one year...
Just three more years...
Then - a lifetime of "commitment"...
The last "ribbet" from the soup pot as it comes to a boil...
Of course the journey back to some kind of life without a cult, without the quick fixes, is going to involve a process that is both complex and individualized.
The "good times" fit in that complex mess and recovery in different ways according to what a person needs at the time.
I haven't diminished your viewpoint - I have disagreed with it. Please consider that a viewpoint can make either a positive or negative impact.
But I do think that flogging yourself endlessly for the sins of others is embarassingly showy.
But I do think that flogging yourself endlessly for the sins of others is embarassingly showy.
Dooj that is a very creepy thing to say. I express my pov, my ideas, and you seem to have a need to diminish that input, somehow make it seem sick or that I am seeking attention. What a disgusting way to treat someone for not lining up to your way of thinking.
my heart goes out to bolsh and brainfixed more than good time folks because as i understand it these (you) people were CHILDREN ABUSED so no good times in my book sorry
I don't think I was abused. It was really dumb and senseless is what it was.
The stuff that came later is what really annoys me.
- go read my post to Geisha - I made it quite clear that while I don't agree with her on many things I appreciated her posts.
I thought it a most charming censure. I enjoyed it. Point taken as well. . . .
You should see me talk my way out of a speeding ticket. . .I used to think it was because I am blonde and sassy :) Now I think it might actually be I talk the poor cops to tears.
But, come on. . . myopic assumption?? How often do we get to use myopic in a sentence?
I thought it a most charming censure. I enjoyed it. Point taken as well. . . .
You should see me talk my way out of a speeding ticket. . .I used to think it was because I am blonde and sassy :) Now I think it might actually be I talk the poor cops to tears.
But, come on. . . myopic assumption?? How often do we get to use myopic in a sentence?
so part of what is going on here is something of a word game? i can do word games! i think i did one with myopic by applying it a little oddly as the only way i have of perceiving people here. does that count? and i think maybe it was just a wee bit of talking the poor cops to tears. probably being "blonde and sassy" didn't hurt anything either.
But I do think that flogging yourself endlessly for the sins of others is embarassingly showy.
Dooj that is a very creepy thing to say. I express my pov, my ideas, and you seem to have a need to diminish that input, somehow make it seem sick or that I am seeking attention. What a disgusting way to treat someone for not lining up to your way of thinking.
I in NO way diminished your input.
The flogging comment came as a result of me remembering how Martin Luther used to flog himself as penance for his sins.
Your ideas are your ideas - you get to say them - I don't have to agree with them.
Your intents have no bearing on the effects of some of the things you say. (The road to hell is paved with good intents, as I recall.) I'm just putting forth how your words come across to my ears.
Your agreeing or disagreeing with me is immaterial, nor does it make it black and white. This is a discussion.
I thought it a most charming censure. I enjoyed it. Point taken as well. . . .
You should see me talk my way out of a speeding ticket. . .I used to think it was because I am blonde and sassy :) Now I think it might actually be I talk the poor cops to tears.
But, come on. . . myopic assumption?? How often do we get to use myopic in a sentence?
WAIT WAIT dear. I don't think I censured you - heck I thought it was a back-handed compliment - you and I disagree on a lot - but it seems to remain civil. I think you might be mixing up posts as well - I don't recall using the word myopic with you...
With regard to you talking a cop out of a ticket...as the Christian songwriter wrote..."I can only Imagine"
Awww, Linda. The incongruity of a 58 year old adult male discussing events that are 20 to 40 years old and that involve people that are either dead or haven't been seen in as many years...I'm sure you can see my dilemma.
Few days ago I was kayaking down a river, casting an ultra light rig across a clear river top, followed by not one but two seals. Yes, seals. To my right, my wife's kayak drifting along. To my left, my son who is so water-friendly and fleet footed he can hop across two kayaks midstream without spilling my morning Mimosa- I wish you could see what he can do in the water. He's a natural and he knows little if any fear.
Good times? Morgan Freeman's had some great script lines - one of the best - "...get busy livin' or get busy dyin'..."
Most important to me - make today a double down win - grand today and grand to look back to somewhere down the line.
Gotta be great to be kayaking with your son. Best times of my life are hanging with my kids. Glad you enjoyed it so much. And Morgan Freeman can sure deliver the lines like few others - that soft voice with the unmoving face...
Awww, Linda. The incongruity of a 58 year old adult male discussing events that are 20 to 40 years old and that involve people that are either dead or haven't been seen in as many years...I'm sure you can see my dilemma.
Few days ago I was kayaking down a river, casting an ultra light rig across a clear river top, followed by not one but two seals. Yes, seals. To my right, my wife's kayak drifting along. To my left, my son who is so water-friendly and fleet footed he can hop across two kayaks midstream without spilling my morning Mimosa- I wish you could see what he can do in the water. He's a natural and he knows little if any fear.
Good times? Morgan Freeman's had some great script lines - one of the best - "...get busy livin' or get busy dyin'..."
Most important to me - make today a double down win - grand today and grand to look back to somewhere down the line.
But I do think that flogging yourself endlessly for the sins of others is embarassingly showy.
Dooj that is a very creepy thing to say. I express my pov, my ideas, and you seem to have a need to diminish that input, somehow make it seem sick or that I am seeking attention. What a disgusting way to treat someone for not lining up to your way of thinking.
Odd rascal - you can call dooj - whoever he/she is - creepy and disgusting for disagreeing with your opinion - but meanwhile you don't give a damn about my opinion (fair enough but hypocritical at the very least) - hey relax - take it easy don't give a damn about dooj's opinion either - too much anxiety - hell you don't want a damned anxiety attack - end up with short breath and palpitating heart - I had a friend who died from an anxiety attack that morphed into a myocardial infarction..aint worth the worry
RELAX rascal - go find some relief for your anxiety - you seem like you have anxiety problems that seriously color your posts - RELAX rascal
BTW - Thank you for stopping the animation of that Yoda thing
I don`t have a problem with anxiety, you are mistaken. Now can we return to the topic at hand rather than the condition of rascal`s emotional well being?
Discuss the subject matter, not each other. NO personal attacks!!! This includes, but not limited to evaluations of someones mental or physical state. Even if you do it subtly -- Dooj!!! Why do you think the anonymity of a screen name gives you any kind of license to make judgment calls on others? It doesn't. I don't think any of you would do that face to face.
Best times I had were my second year in rez - when LCM would go off on a rant after lunch - I just kinda walked out on a daily basis and lit up a smoke. Much more fun and probably less dangerous than listening to his ilk.
Oh I forgot another good time - when a WOW sister needed surgery (of course no med coverage) so I got resourceful with money. Poor HA wanted to know what happened to the "forms."
....t-bone i always appreciate your posts and they cause me to think more deeply about things than sometimes i want to think. i do have to say that my way experience was in just one category for me because i was a child forced to participate and as soon as i had a choice i took it and ran like hell far far away and started what i consider to be my real life. i had no opportunity to make good friends because once we all started telling what was happening we were kept separate. i was the proverbial "black sheep" of my family because i would not accept what was being taught and forced upon me as "godly" so i don't have good family ties now, and i made sure i had no "inconvenient" children! it took me many years to stop seeking out the only thing i knew as a "real" man and keep myself out of abusive relationships and i have no man at all right now and really don't want a man in my life for a long time. as for friends right now i have people i know that i do things with, but other than that i am my own best friend and my own best company. i have professionals to turn to in times of crisis and they all agree that there will come a point in my life when i will find myself with good friends and maybe even a good relationship, but i'm not holding my breath but am instead enjoying the freedom and healing of being good to me....
I appreciate & respect where you're coming from – and by no means am suggesting that anyone categorize things as I do. My son is 29 now – but the first 6 years of his life he was brought up in Way-world – even as far as being in the Family Corps with us. And to be honest – there are definitely some sore spots in our relationship. However, in all fairness – I cannot attribute them all to TWI's "wonderful" environment.
Although much can be said about the practical consequence of skewed doctrines [the impact not just to adults but to the kids too] – I would like to elaborate on where I'm coming from – as one not forced to participate. Not only did I choose to participate but I think it's important to point out what I brought into the mix.
I came from a dysfunctional family, Dad & Mom were workaholics & depression runs in my Dad's side of the family. So then I get into TWI, get married have a kid and I'm a real treat for the family – with non-existent social skills, willing to burn myself out for the ministry and harboring a blue funk most of the time. Man oh man – some things are just a bad mix with TWI. Now it doesn't let them off the hook though and it definitely puts the ball back in my court…
Like you I had to turn to professionals – after much nagging from the wife – and a lot of it over this depression thing… Anyway, when you mentioned being your own best friend – I recalled my first session with the shrink. Most of it was me unloading all the crap in my life, all the bad decisions I've made yada yada…after all that he said "you've got to stop beating yourself up." Learning to forgive oneself is a big deal.
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Tzaia
There were no "good" times. There were a few good people, but even my first visit - a branch meeting - was not what I would call "good". Overwhelming - yes. I was told it would cost at least a dollar
Linda Z
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, RumRunner. Without naming names, what are you talking about? You can give examples of behavior/types of posts without naming names. I'm really trying to und
potato
I'm glad vpw is dead.
RumRunner
Geisha dear - While I disagree with you on many if not most doctrinal issues I usually find your posts to be logical and thought through in some detail. However - I have to agree with rascal on something - it seems (note the word seems not pronouncing the sentence of death on you) that you are coming on a little strong with Brainfixed - someone having recently made the break and someone who came here looking for additional insight. You are strong minded and strong willed - no doubt serves you well in your prison outreach - however Brainfixed could use a softer touch I suspect. Uhh and yes - your lack of tact does indeed have a certain charm. And you need to keep working on cynicism for that A grade.
Bear in mind that there are those of us who got in as dope smoking teens by our own choice - and now a whole crop of posters who were raised in TWI - not joined by choice. I think the issues may be radically different for those two groups.
Thanks,
RR
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brainfixed
note of clarification here, i am not recently out of the way but i left when i was 18 and i am much older than that now. my apologies if i haven't made that perfectly clear.
i am recently participating here but i have been reading here for about a year or so.
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RumRunner
Thanks for the correction BrainyOne
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rascal
Dooj, it appears to me that you don`t agree with my view point so you label it as *black and white thinking. Well, I don`t happen to agree with you. I don`t think that diminishes my pov, it`s significance or possible impact.
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rascal
Glad your amused rumrunner....really.... Fortunately, I don`t give damn whether you understand or agree with my thoughts or not.
It is my opinion, that your lack of appreciation for input that doesn`t line up with your way of thinking does not necessarily invalidate what I have to contribute.
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RumRunner
Why you poor poor victim - go read my post to Geisha - I made it quite clear that while I don't agree with her on many things I appreciated her posts. Your opinion is typical. Everything is black and white it seems for you rascal - it's rascal's way or you are somehow victimizing rascal.
Go smoke something good - you need to relax. Put on some Grateful Dead and get your oil changed.
BTW I am glad you don't give a damn about whether or not I agree with you. jesus christmas at least I'm not trying to start my own victim cult here like some unnamed people are.
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doojable
I don't agree with your viewpoint.
I do view your POV as black/white thinking.
I'm fine that we don't agree.
Perhaps you missed one of my earlier posts where I acknowledged the many different posters here and their POVs:
I haven't diminished your viewpoint - I have disagreed with it. Please consider that a viewpoint can make either a positive or negative impact.
But I do think that flogging yourself endlessly for the sins of others is embarassingly showy.
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rascal
But I do think that flogging yourself endlessly for the sins of others is embarassingly showy.
Dooj that is a very creepy thing to say. I express my pov, my ideas, and you seem to have a need to diminish that input, somehow make it seem sick or that I am seeking attention. What a disgusting way to treat someone for not lining up to your way of thinking.
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Bolshevik
I don't think I was abused. It was really dumb and senseless is what it was.
The stuff that came later is what really annoys me.
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geisha779
I thought it a most charming censure. I enjoyed it. Point taken as well. . . .
You should see me talk my way out of a speeding ticket. . .I used to think it was because I am blonde and sassy :) Now I think it might actually be I talk the poor cops to tears.
But, come on. . . myopic assumption?? How often do we get to use myopic in a sentence?
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brainfixed
so part of what is going on here is something of a word game? i can do word games! i think i did one with myopic by applying it a little oddly as the only way i have of perceiving people here. does that count? and i think maybe it was just a wee bit of talking the poor cops to tears.
probably being "blonde and sassy" didn't hurt anything either.
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doojable
I in NO way diminished your input.
The flogging comment came as a result of me remembering how Martin Luther used to flog himself as penance for his sins.
Your ideas are your ideas - you get to say them - I don't have to agree with them.
Your intents have no bearing on the effects of some of the things you say. (The road to hell is paved with good intents, as I recall.) I'm just putting forth how your words come across to my ears.
Your agreeing or disagreeing with me is immaterial, nor does it make it black and white. This is a discussion.
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RumRunner
WAIT WAIT dear. I don't think I censured you - heck I thought it was a back-handed compliment - you and I disagree on a lot - but it seems to remain civil. I think you might be mixing up posts as well - I don't recall using the word myopic with you...
With regard to you talking a cop out of a ticket...as the Christian songwriter wrote..."I can only Imagine"
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socks
Awww, Linda. The incongruity of a 58 year old adult male discussing events that are 20 to 40 years old and that involve people that are either dead or haven't been seen in as many years...I'm sure you can see my dilemma.
Few days ago I was kayaking down a river, casting an ultra light rig across a clear river top, followed by not one but two seals. Yes, seals. To my right, my wife's kayak drifting along. To my left, my son who is so water-friendly and fleet footed he can hop across two kayaks midstream without spilling my morning Mimosa- I wish you could see what he can do in the water. He's a natural and he knows little if any fear.
Good times? Morgan Freeman's had some great script lines - one of the best - "...get busy livin' or get busy dyin'..."
Most important to me - make today a double down win - grand today and grand to look back to somewhere down the line.
Two - two - two good's in one!
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RumRunner
Gotta be great to be kayaking with your son. Best times of my life are hanging with my kids. Glad you enjoyed it so much. And Morgan Freeman can sure deliver the lines like few others - that soft voice with the unmoving face...
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RumRunner
Odd rascal - you can call dooj - whoever he/she is - creepy and disgusting for disagreeing with your opinion - but meanwhile you don't give a damn about my opinion (fair enough but hypocritical at the very least) - hey relax - take it easy don't give a damn about dooj's opinion either - too much anxiety - hell you don't want a damned anxiety attack - end up with short breath and palpitating heart - I had a friend who died from an anxiety attack that morphed into a myocardial infarction..aint worth the worry
RELAX rascal - go find some relief for your anxiety - you seem like you have anxiety problems that seriously color your posts - RELAX rascal
BTW - Thank you for stopping the animation of that Yoda thing
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rascal
I don`t have a problem with anxiety, you are mistaken. Now can we return to the topic at hand rather than the condition of rascal`s emotional well being?
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waysider
I wonder, if years from now, some of our younger posters will look back at this thread and see it as a good time or a bad time.
:lol:
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kimberly
I have watched the progression of this discussion. Away a few days and whew!!! Is it time for a group hug?
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Bolshevik
:D
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pawtucket
Discuss the subject matter, not each other. NO personal attacks!!! This includes, but not limited to evaluations of someones mental or physical state. Even if you do it subtly -- Dooj!!! Why do you think the anonymity of a screen name gives you any kind of license to make judgment calls on others? It doesn't. I don't think any of you would do that face to face.
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RumRunner
OK Back to the topic at hand - the "good" times.
Best times I had were my second year in rez - when LCM would go off on a rant after lunch - I just kinda walked out on a daily basis and lit up a smoke. Much more fun and probably less dangerous than listening to his ilk.
Oh I forgot another good time - when a WOW sister needed surgery (of course no med coverage) so I got resourceful with money. Poor HA wanted to know what happened to the "forms."
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T-Bone
I appreciate & respect where you're coming from – and by no means am suggesting that anyone categorize things as I do. My son is 29 now – but the first 6 years of his life he was brought up in Way-world – even as far as being in the Family Corps with us. And to be honest – there are definitely some sore spots in our relationship. However, in all fairness – I cannot attribute them all to TWI's "wonderful" environment.
Although much can be said about the practical consequence of skewed doctrines [the impact not just to adults but to the kids too] – I would like to elaborate on where I'm coming from – as one not forced to participate. Not only did I choose to participate but I think it's important to point out what I brought into the mix.
I came from a dysfunctional family, Dad & Mom were workaholics & depression runs in my Dad's side of the family. So then I get into TWI, get married have a kid and I'm a real treat for the family – with non-existent social skills, willing to burn myself out for the ministry and harboring a blue funk most of the time. Man oh man – some things are just a bad mix with TWI. Now it doesn't let them off the hook though and it definitely puts the ball back in my court…
Like you I had to turn to professionals – after much nagging from the wife – and a lot of it over this depression thing… Anyway, when you mentioned being your own best friend – I recalled my first session with the shrink. Most of it was me unloading all the crap in my life, all the bad decisions I've made yada yada…after all that he said "you've got to stop beating yourself up." Learning to forgive oneself is a big deal.
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doojable
T-bone - thanks for that post.
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