the "good" times

[brainfixed]

something i learned from my current therapist was about the "honeymoon phase" of the abusive relationship being more than just the "good" times. what i have learned about this phase has helped me to break free from my own inclinations towards accepting abuse as a "norm", and i had never ever had anybody put the reality of this phase to me the way my current therapist has, so this information was news to me and i don't think many "helping" agencies touch on the realities of this phase.

here's the thing, though, is that the "honeymoon phase" is not just a period when things are "good", but it is also the period that the abuser uses to pull the victim even closer to him or her and to keep the victim accepting the blame for the abuse. this phase is a calculated phase, too, and, in fact, all of the phases of the cycle of abuse are calculated by the abuser. no abuser is "out of control" when it comes to the abuse. the proof of that pudding is watch what happens when the police or other "outsiders" come around. the abuser stops everything and turns on the charm, but the minute "outsiders" aren't looking on, the abuser starts in again.

so what has this got to do with the way international? everything because the way used the "honeymoon phase" like the professional abusers they are, and yes they are "professional" because they get paid well for abusing people even if that pay is called "abundant sharing" or "tithing" or "blessing leadership" in some way. but i am always reading about "the good times" in the way and it has taken me this long to get it that of course there were "good times" or otherwise nobody would have stayed around. but i am also always reading about how those "good times" were related not to the way but to people who were trying to do their best regardless of the way. but in these same people were found that when the chips were down, they "stood" with the way and against their supposed "friends" and even bore false witness and m&a'd their "friends" with a screaming spittle filled asschewing to boot.

so now whenever i am tempted to look back at any of my way experiences with fond memories of the "good" times, i also check myself and look at those "good" times with more understanding that they were there only to bind me tighter to the abusers, and even if they were "genuinely good", in the end the participants turned on me if i didn't agree with the way. and maybe the participants came back later on and apologized to me, but that does not discount the fact that the "good" times were all part of the charade, part of the dance called "the cycle of abuse".

[Bolshevik]

It would hurt less if people would just bunch me in the gut or something as apposed to telling about their stupid f-----ing "good times" when "Dr." was f---ing around.

[brainfixed]

It would hurt less if people would just bunch me in the gut or something as apposed to telling about their stupid f-----ing "good times" when "Dr." was f---ing around.

yes, bolshevik, it would, and this is a typical sentiment stated over and over again about abuse is that the physical abuse didn't do as much damage as the psychological and emotional and spiritual abuse, and especially the afterwards stuff when somebody comes along and just dotes on and on about the abusers.

[Tzaia]

There were no "good" times. There were a few good people, but even my first visit - a branch meeting - was not what I would call "good". Overwhelming - yes.

I was told it would cost at least a dollar to give to see the band Good Seed. Now I had so much money that I had to put it in a baggie - because pennies were all I had. Fortunately all that was accepted was cash, so it was good that all I had was some change. Then my new best friend shoved a commitment down my throat, telling me I could back away, but all I got was more pressure when I did try to back away. I had a bad taste in my mouth from the very beginning.

I'm not sorry it happened. I met a great guy and we've been married over 29 years. I feel terrible that so many people swallowed the whole thing, only to find out it was a con job from the get-go. There were enough things that made me uneasy that I couldn't shake off that I just didn't get into it that deep, much less drag friends and family into it.

[geisha779]

Many people have their entire youth and a large part of their life wrapped up in their time in TWI.

I was 19 when I got in. . . married and had my kids in TWI. There were plenty of good times. The excitment of starting a family. . . these memories are wrapped up with the people who were around us then. Way people.

We lived with people and shared a great deal. Wow families. Way homes. . . geeze many of us look back and that is what we have!!

I refuse to call my youth and happy times a wash because of TWI. It was bigger than HQ and VP. . . it was comprised of some good people who got tripped up just like me.

I guess I just wasn't one of the ones who didn't get "sucked in". I even got my family to take the class. Guess that makes me less somehow.

Maybe my "Good" memories make me delusional, but somehow I came out the otherside in one piece.

[GarthP2000]

the "good" times, or were they really?

I think that the genuine good times were had by those who had good friends and tried their individual best to help people, ... TWI and its goon-squad notwithstanding.

[waysider]

I had lots of good times WHILE I was in The Way.

I mean, in 18 years, there has to be at least SOME good times.

I have to say, though, that I feel this was IN SPITE OF The Way, not because of it.

[brainfixed]

Many people have their entire youth and a large part of their life wrapped up in their time in TWI.

I was 19 when I got in. . . married and had my kids in TWI. There were plenty of good times. The excitment of starting a family. . . these memories are wrapped up with the people who were around us then. Way people.

We lived with people and shared a great deal. Wow families. Way homes. . . geeze many of us look back and that is what we have!!

I refuse to call my youth and happy times a wash because of TWI. It was bigger than HQ and VP. . . it was comprised of some good people who got tripped up just like me.

I guess I just wasn't one of the ones who didn't get "sucked in". I even got my family to take the class. Guess that makes me less somehow.

Maybe my "Good" memories make me delusional, but somehow I came out the otherside in one piece.

it was not my intention to say that anybody that had good times are delusional or in any other way inferior because of them, and it was not my intention to say that there were no "real" good times. but it was my intention to say that thinking the way was a "good" thing because of the "good" experiences was a huge part of what kept people staying, and because of that it makes the way an abusive system. it is good to see that there are people that can separate their good experiences from the way itself, and those that can do that have come alot farther along their journey of healing than they themselves may even recognize, but there are people that are still in or are still yearning for what the way "gave" them in "instant" families and "instant" friends and "close knit fellowship of like minded believers". and that's what i was talking about because people can get stuck in their journey of healing because they can't separate their genuinely good experiences and look at the way for what it really is.

and when i look back all i have is being forced to be a way twiggy and before that being forced to take sides between my mother and my father, and in all this looking back it's not pretty at all and the absolutely worst part for me was when the "good" times got so mixed up with the abuse. understanding that for abusers this is on purpose and part of the cycle of abuse has helped me a whole lot and has helped me to truly know "good" from abuse, and i think that knowing such a thing would help others so i started a topic about it. but if the shoe doesn't fit then please don't wear it because i wasn't trying to force it to fit but i was trying to share some things that helped me and maybe would help others that might just be wearing one of those shoes. but just because what one has to look back at is an abusive system doesn't mean that's all one had or has now, and my therapist taught me to take "snapshots" of situations and explore them apart from the whole, which helped me to see my own strengths and weaknesses so that i could see my own self worth in it all an build from there so that today i can look back and say "i survived and changed my path against all odds and that makes what i had and what i have to look forward to something wonderful and worthy".

[chockfull]

Yeah, and funny enough many of the people who stick around talk about "focusing on the positives" and purging their memory of anything but the "good times".

Kind of like Stockholm syndrome.

[brainfixed]

Yeah, and funny enough many of the people who stick around talk about "focusing on the positives" and purging their memory of anything but the "good times".

Kind of like Stockholm syndrome.

exactly. thank you.

[waysider]

Good topic.

Interesting discussion.

[Bolshevik]

yes, bolshevik, it would, and this is a typical sentiment stated over and over again about abuse is that the physical abuse didn't do as much damage as the psychological and emotional and spiritual abuse, and especially the afterwards stuff when somebody comes along and just dotes on and on about the abusers.

I don't know who the abusers are.

vpw's actions mind as well be my fault.

god forbid I rain on someone's "good times"

just wish they'd keep their "good times" off my life.

[GeorgeStGeorge]

just wish they'd keep their "good times" off my life.

What the heck does that mean? I, for one had many years of "good times" while in TWI. As pointed out by other posters, this had more to do with "lower-level" believers caring for each other than top-down directives. How does that affect you, in the least?

George

[WhiteDove]

I had lots of good times and some not so good in The Way. They were what they were, nothing more, nothing less. Not unlike most other times in life whatever the association. I've had good and bad times at the dog park, Walmart too, In fact the same could be said for this cafe. I don't see any of them as part of a charade, dance or cycle of abuse, just life experiances.

[now I see]

I also think the amount of fond memories of good times is directly proportional to the amount and severity of bad times at twi, depending on how ruthless you were treated at any given time and especially at the end.  

Also, I think the ones who came to Hq in the early years had quite a different experience than the rest of us, and those who were higher up in the twi hierarchy system had a much different experience than the rank and file.

[Bolshevik]

What the heck does that mean? I, for one had many years of "good times" while in TWI. As pointed out by other posters, this had more to do with "lower-level" believers caring for each other than top-down directives. How does that affect you, in the least?

George

uh, those good times is what caused people to stay with twi today? the one-on-one bless you, love you, kiss kiss? the good times are twi's fuel, no? What else would they be running on?

[now I see]

Bolsh and GSG, you're both right, that is definitely the opinion I got after reading the thread about the recent adv class at twi, the greatest reality of their present truth is that they got to see old friends in a familiar setting, not at the "greatness" of da Verd!  

The mucus that binds them together, so to speak, is the fraternity-the bond between friends, without that, their membership would be nill.

[brainfixed]

here is something to think about and maybe not really something to write here about, but it might put the "good" times into a different light for somebody, not everybody and not particularly anybody that has joined in this discussion, so it's one of those "if the shoe fits" things, so i'm not saying the shoe does fit or anything. and it is definetly hypothetical because the rules here would never allow it to happen, so all that being said:

what would happen and what would you believe and how would you feel if one day you came here and a dozen or so people had come forward with what happened to them at the hands of somebody in the way you just knew that you knew that you knew would never harm a fly? and what if those stories were supported by several eye witnesses? and what if the abuse included being drugged and raped or children being molested and otherwise abused? what if what is written here about the "dr" and craig and others was also written about the "good" people you knew in the way? the "good" people you let babysit? the "good" people you told your sister or daughter they could trust? what if the perpetrator was your spouse or your sibling or your parent or your child?

like it or not the "dr" and craig and all the other perpetrators of abuse actually allowed to be named here were not such "monsters" that even their closest friends and loved ones could wrap their minds around seeing these people the way they are portrayed here, but that doesn't change the fact that these people did what they did and that they did it methodically and purposefully and knowing it was wrong and institutionalizing that wrongness and abuse to the point that their followers would hear about it and deny it until it just couldn't be denied any longer or even still denying it. and like it or not that kind of institutionalized wrongness and abuse will make accomplices and co-consipirators and co-perpetrators out of the best of people when in the thick of things. and like it or not people will hide their own participation and even perpetration from yes even their closest friends and relatives, and yes even themselves once out of the institutionalized setting. and like it or not their closest friends and loved ones will never admit to believing one iota of anything that might be said about them as a perpetrator. how could they? after all he or she was such a "good" person.

[Bolshevik]

What the heck does that mean? I, for one had many years of "good times" while in TWI. As pointed out by other posters, this had more to do with "lower-level" believers caring for each other than top-down directives. How does that affect you, in the least?

George

George,

maybe you don't do this

but lots of the folks (the rank and file joe believers) who had "good times" in the 1970s or around then are imposing their memory of life onto today. Whatever happens today doesn't matter. They had a good time in 1977 or whatever. They refuse to move on and demand that today's teens and twenty something see twi as it was in 197X, and obey. The good times and good feelings are the standard. Reality is not.

I see wayfers/ex-wayfers reflections of good times as more of a power trip than anything. A way to not take responsibility and blame the next generation for the lack of "believing power" or whatever.

so screw their fond memories, they're chasing shadows.

[leafytwiglet]

George,

maybe you don't do this

but lots of the folks (the rank and file joe believers) who had "good times" in the 1970s or around then are imposing their memory of life onto today. Whatever happens today doesn't matter. They had a good time in 1977 or whatever. They refuse to move on and demand that today's teens and twenty something see twi as it was in 197X, and obey. The good times and good feelings are the standard. Reality is not.

I see wayfers/ex-wayfers reflections of good times as more of a power trip than anything. A way to not take responsibility and blame the next generation for the lack of "believing power" or whatever.

so screw their fond memories, they're chasing shadows.

But then you do the same thing .. it can't be a good memory because my life sucked while in DA VOID! And TWI was evil so do not talk of these good times you had.

The reality is rather more in the middle..

Not every one had sucky times.. admitting one had good times or bad times is not taking away from the reality of the fact that TWI was wrong... it is just allowing people to understand why they were there and or why they stayed.

We all have to allow people to express what they liked about TWI or we hinder them from healing just as much as those who had good experiences have to allow those of us who were trampled to share their hurt and pain.

Talking about it is how people heal. and that involves talking about both parts of it.

People whose folks were already in the way get mad because their folks stayed in and want to know why but when people try to explain the born TWIers get angry and accuse them of being stupid to get involved.

Well Nothing is ever all black and white... and how TWI was for people really did depend on when you were involved and where you were involved... That does not take away from the fact that TWI was started by some one who just wanted to take advantage of people... IT just goes to show you that people were looking for answers and were very very young.. and made bad decisions.

Everyone on here is just trying to understand and until we all stop and listen to both sides of the story.. you will not find the peace and healing you are looking for.

And part of that is seeing it all.... the good , the bad and the ugly.

But it is also letting each other express that without assuming they are trying to tell you what you saw didn't happen.

We all know it happened but so did the good stuff too.

IF TWI had been all evil to begin with most of us wouldn't have been there in the first place.

[Bolshevik]

good memories is like the wooden spoon. He who holds it, is right.

[Bolshevik]

. . .

People whose folks were already in the way get mad because their folks stayed in and want to know why but when people try to explain the born TWIers get angry and accuse them of being stupid to get involved.

. . .

this should be another thread.

[leafytwiglet]

this should be another thread.

If I start it will you co host it with me?

[now I see]

but lots of the folks (the rank and file joe believers) who had "good times" in the 1970s or around then are imposing their memory of life onto today. Whatever happens today doesn't matter. They had a good time in 1977 or whatever. They refuse to move on and demand that today's teens and twenty something see twi as it was in 197X, and obey. The good times and good feelings are the standard. Reality is not.

I see wayfers/ex-wayfers reflections of good times as more of a power trip than anything. A way to not take responsibility and blame the next generation for the lack of "believing power" or whatever.

Sounds like immature adults lording over people with a hefty dose of guilt and shame as manipulation.

[coolchef]

many good times while in the verd

our twigs were friend and family befor the pfal sh7t

we kinda all got in together

we had many great times hosting the twigs at our home

bbqs around the pool lawn games,etc

camp fires

just good times

then it changed when the uppers started micro mananging my life

hence,divorce and all the other good stuff that comes with it

but all of them got out too

i am still friends with many of them

yes there were good times for many of us