As John has stated on a number of replies, This is his "gig". He invited me to be on the panel. There was a lot of discussion. It is NOT a Greasespotcafe event. I just happen to be an invited guest.
I don't need to reinvent GS. This forum works. People get educated or enlightened. They asked questions and many times get answers from other peoples' experience. GS informs. The individual does what they want with the info. And hopefully, we have a little fun in the process.
I understand the wariness. It is a good tool to have. This is a one time event. I've often wondered what a situation like this online thing would be. Well John's going to test it out. I was wary about being on it for a while, too. I just decided that I would be on the panel one time and take it from there.
Honestly, John hooked me with technology. We tested it out a few weeks ago. (He really does have that 1960's Ozzie Nelson smile.)
Someone thought that not going wouldn't be supporting GS. Well don't worry about that. I don't really care one way or another, it's your decision.
It's a pretty lively evening at the Cafe, discussing this! It's certainly attracting a lot of attention and a lot of heated posts.
How delightful that we can actually TALK about this. Have an opinion. Make up our own minds. Not be under compulsion. Not be coerced into any decision. Can attend and enjoy. Can not attend, and not suffer because of that.
Perhaps some reading this are lurkers, still innies.
Maybe it would help you if you were to participate in the Webinar. Give you courage to make the break.
Maybe you already made the break internally, just by being at the Cafe.
Maybe you already made the break physically, but internally you are still in bondage.
i think i get what john and pawtucket are saying, and i understand a little bit better the purpose of this thing, but i still feel uncomfortable with me being involved, so i hope that those who do get involved have a good time.
Interesting.. Well I would like to say it couldn't hurt to sit in... Not sure if I will or not yet. Gotta think it over... I am mostly fine with my life and have had few issues from my time in the way but I do tend to be very skeptical of invitations to seminars.. Funny that .. I see now I am not the only one... I suppose this is a side effect of being scammed big time. I used to follow blindly now I argue a lot first and look around to see if it really is something I should or shouldn't do.
Different things work for different folks and some folks can not afford personal one-on-one therapy. Some people are afraid of one-on-one and others are skeptical of forums like the cafe, or don't have anything as constructive and helpful as we have here at GSpot.
I can understand having a passion to help folks in whatever way you can and think this is a great way to help those who otherwise may not get any help at all.
I also understand so many questions and doubts, but chock some of it up to our knee jerk reaction due to our experience in TWI.
Were I still in TWI with no WayDale or GSpot, this webinar is exactly what I would have seen as a blessing. I would have claimed to have to "work late" and asked John if I could mail him a money order to hide the expense from my ex. I would have been extremely thankful for someone like John putting this together. Heck, it took me months to figure out how to order Juedes side-by-side plagiarism booklets from his site without my ex finding out.... and they only cost $1!
It's great to check people out and take every precaution but that also has to be tempered with giving people the benefit of the doubt. I don't know where that line is, but people signing up for this aren't committing to anything other than a little time and $25. We've gotten somewhat spoiled at how easy it is to connect with people who have been through what we have here at the cafe even though it costs Paw quite a bit and not just monetarily. He spends quite a bit out of his own pocket to keep the doors open for us and does have a Paypal link, but I'd guess most people who have benefitted from this place have not given him one red cent despite the benefits. (I'm lax on mine, actually )
He spends quite a bit out of his own pocket to keep the doors open for us and does have a Paypal link, but I'd guess most people who have benefitted from this place have not given him one red cent despite the benefits. (I'm lax on mine, actually )
Really? Where is this link, is Paw taking donations? I'm positive many, many of us would contribute to the keep Greasespot Running fund if we could-tell us more.....
Really? Where is this link, is Paw taking donations? I'm positive many, many of us would contribute to the keep Greasespot Running fund if we could-tell us more.....
It's on the front page and has been metioned in the forums numerous times. I think getting screwed through PFAL and TWI has ruined people from really appreciating how much it costs (mentally, physically and MONETARILY) to provide help to people. I understand the knee jerk reaction to not wanting to pay for anything, but the truth is, Paw deserves some help paying for keeping the doors open for us and I'm a bit biased having learned of the trouble and cost first hand. Here's a link to the place on the home page of the Cafe: http://tinyurl.com/r6yyys.
Funny how the folks who complain the most about how awful this place is - post the most and pay the least for the privilege of complaining about it. <_< Nevermind those who have been helped the most from having a place to hea.
Am I biased? YES! I know how much of Paw's personal life and finances he has given to us.
And, NO, "many of us" do (and have) known about it and have not contributed a single penny.
Really? Where is this link, is Paw taking donations? I'm positive many, many of us would contribute to the keep Greasespot Running fund if we could-tell us more.....
The link is in the thread ETANOD, which spells DONATE, backwards. :)
It's on the front page and has been metioned in the forums numerous times. I think getting screwed through PFAL and TWI has ruined people from really appreciating how much it costs (mentally, physically and MONETARILY) to provide help to people. I understand the knee jerk reaction to not wanting to pay for anything, but the truth is, Paw deserves some help paying for keeping the doors open for us and I'm a bit biased having learned of the trouble and cost first hand. Here's a link to the place on the home page of the Cafe: http://tinyurl.com/r6yyys.
Funny how the folks who complain the most about how awful this place is - post the most and pay the least for the privilege of complaining about it. <_< Nevermind those who have been helped the most from having a place to hea.
Am I biased? YES! I know how much of Paw's personal life and finances he has given to us.
And, NO, "many of us" do (and have) known about it and have not contributed a single penny.
i won't assume to speak for anybody else because i can't, but please do not think that any "knee jerk reaction" i may have had or did have or whatever is because i don't want to pay for anything, because that is not at all the basis for any possible "knee jerk reation" i may have had or did have or whatever, and i pay my way in life and have a very good work ethic, and if i know up front that something is going to cost money then i can choose up front if i want to pay to participate. but i spent a long time thinking about how i felt about things and the being charged part was just a part of it all and not all of it, and the reason the being charged part bothered me was not an issue in and of itself but was just one something added with the other somethings that made me feel funny about the whole thing for me. and is it expected to pay for being here for my thoughts and feelings that i may share or have shared to be taken with any weight as valid, and if so how come that isn't in bold letters all over the place so i could know it before i started putting my thoughts and feelings out here? this just gets fishier and fishier for me and i am glad i thought a long time about it instead of just jumping in and participating without knowing all of this other stuff. if i am reading things all wrong then let me know, but i thought this topic was about the web seminar and the cost of that and not the cost of being here, so if i am wrong please let me know so i can make a better informed choice.
if i am reading things all wrong then let me know, but i thought this topic was about the web seminar and the cost of that and not the cost of being here, so if i am wrong please let me know so i can make a better informed choice.
Both Belle and I were responding to a question posted by now I see. Nothing more, nothing less. :)
Brainfixed .. We all kind of had the same knee jerk reaction.. and it wasn't about the money.... that was just a solid fact people could dig into.
Really what it boils down to is every one on here who has been in TWI for any amount of time has a tendency to distrust other peoples motives...and when a price is tacked on it sends our little warning sirens blaring.. I do this for any class or seminar even college classes I have to really look them over before I fork over my money.
I would venture to guess that most of us did not just jump on GSC and begin commenting right off the bat either but spent a good amount of time perusing the threads and trying to figure out the lay of the land so to speak.
Donating to Paw Tuckett was brought up because he foots the bill for GSC... and we all appreciate that and all the time he puts into running the site as for many of us it is the only help for us in our areas
It is a donation not a cost to you to be here and we all want to hear your thoughts and feeling just as much as we all want to share ours.
I probably wasn't clear about why I included that quote. The reason I did was because you have a “cult recovery expert” on your panel, and it seems to me that they tend to see brainwashing behind every bush (sorta like twi saw a devil spirit under every rock).
I didn’t mean to imply or assume that you’re one of the “mind control” proponents. It appears, however, that your third panelist is.
I hope you don't think we're trying to give you a hard time. I was concerned so I felt the need to say so. I'm sure you understand that many of us spent too many years keeping quiet when we had questions and doubts. Maybe that's why we so readily voice them today. :)
I hope people get a lot out of your Webinar if they choose to participate. I also hope you'll keep a leash on that "cult recovery expert."
Hey, Linda,
You're not being hard! I believe if you have a concern, it's courageous of you to voice it. Most people don't take the time. And it educates me as well as giving me an opportunity to explain.
And, most important, I think being cautious is an important part of recovery. Most of us just don't want to get involved in another high-demand or cultic situation. Using our experiences in our cult, which usually leads to caution about new "causes," is really turning a bad thing into a good thing.
Thanks for your thoughts and explanations. I do think it would be beneficial to many on this thread if you posted a little regarding your approach, or even if you post hyperlinks to your own website where you explain your approach. It's good to get to know a little of your background, experience and work. That type of thing goes a long way to alleviate concerns.
But the short version is that I focus on recovery rather than "cult exit counseling." By that I mean, I work with individuals who have already left their group but are still experiencing cult-related difficulties -- sometimes years or decades later. Exit counselors offer information that may influence someone to leave a toxic group. It may be that a family arranges for an "intervention" in which a current cult member is faced with information about the group they are in, with an eye toward convincing them they should leave. Or in some cases, cult members seek out an exit counselor to help them leave the toxic group gracefully.
That's not what I do.
I work with my client to explore their strengths and how to apply them to recovery. Anyone who has survived and left a toxic group must have unique strengths. Examples might be courage or independent thinking as shown by leaving. But strengths may go much deeper: compassion, idealism, openness, and many others. I have a list of strengths that former cult members demonstrate at http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cultstrengths.html.
To some degree I follow a general outline in working with former members, although there is wide variation depending on the needs of each individual.
I use a "brief therapy" model. That means we start planning for the termination of therapy from the first session. My general goal is to work with a client no more than 12 sessions -- although I have worked with some individuals much longer, depending on the nature and difficulty of the challenges facing an individual.
My general outline is to spend 3 to 4 sessions reviewing the cultic processes that were used in one's group. I do this for three reasons: first, the more you know about cultic manipulation, the less likely one will fall for it in the future. Second, if you can see the intentional manipulation of your group, you may stop blaming yourself for "falling for" your cult's influence -- which can block recovery. Most people I work with tend to blame themselves. Which brings up the third reason I educate on cultic processes: Usually in reviewing cult beliefs and practices, we discover a number of beliefs taught by the group that still linger long after leaving -- and contribute to suffering in the here and now. An example is all-or-nothing thinking that leads often to a former member experiencing crippling perfectionism: "Nothing I do is good enough, so why should I try?" (This certainly doesn't happen for everyone, but it is an example that many people report.)
In the second phase, about 4 to 6 sessions, I use "cognitive therapy" to help former members to identify beliefs that linger after leaving the group and to challenge those beliefs. I use techniques found in "Mind Over Mood" and "Feeling Good," among other books. Generally this is the phase in which former members feel the most relief.
Finally, we work on balancing one's life after leaving the cult. I find this is the most important task a former cult member faces. Our toxic groups were everything to us: They influenced every aspect of our lives, from beliefs, to diet, to choice of life partners, and so forth. Many people leaving a toxic group replace one "obsession" with another. They may become workaholics, find a new church or cause, bury themselves in intense relationships, or otherwise focus on one aspect of their lives while neglecting others. People who successfully balance their lives are much less likely to be overwhelmed by pain -- which can be a trigger for returning to your toxic group or finding another to fill the hole.
There's a lot more to say, but I hope this gives you some idea of how I work. Feel free to ask questions or raise concerns!
J.
sowwy, heard he was invited and declined
Acutally, ex, he accepted, but dropped out for reasons he never shared with me. We worked for a few weeks together, and then I stopped hearing from him. I'm not sure why.
thank you leafytwiglet and dmiller for taking the time to explain a little bit more to me, and i did have a knee jerk reaction to what seemed to me to be a reaming like i hadn't heard since the last twig i went to, and i haven't allowed in my life for awhile now, so i wanted to ask if i was hearing things the way they are or just the way someone feels, so i guess it's just the thoughts and feelings of someone so now i feel a bit more ok to participate here without feeling like i have to "tithe" or something (that's haha and not a commentary on anything.) :)
my mom and siblings are always on me about hanging out with ex-cultists -- like you can get help from people who got sucked in too ? lol
there's something to be said for that although it's been very helpful to get things out of my system this way
--
i don't know. i really wonder. i know a lot of ex-druggies become drug counselors because they really understand
but i also wonder how much cult type thinking still remains in counselors like you, john -- not trying to offend at all -- thinking is all i'm doing
--
anyone else on the panel -- is it a panel -- does not have training, am i correct ?
do the blind lead the blind ? we all bring our baggage, that's for sure
so like i said, i'm just thinking
it gets hard to trust anyone
one gal i know who went to a professional counselor (NOT an excultist) ended up having an affair with him -- she had already been raped and been in a cult, etc., etc.
so that's really scary. sounds like something that would happen to me for crying out loud
my mom and siblings are always on me about hanging out with ex-cultists -- like you can get help from people who got sucked in too ? lol
there's something to be said for that although it's been very helpful to get things out of my system this way
--
i don't know. i really wonder. i know a lot of ex-druggies become drug counselors because they really understand
but i also wonder how much cult type thinking still remains in counselors like you, john -- not trying to offend at all -- thinking is all i'm doing
--
anyone else on the panel -- is it a panel -- does not have training, am i correct ?
do the blind lead the blind ? we all bring our baggage, that's for sure
so like i said, i'm just thinking
it gets hard to trust anyone
one gal i know who went to a professional counselor (NOT an excultist) ended up having an affair with him -- she had already been raped and been in a cult, etc., etc.
so that's really scary. sounds like something that would happen to me for crying out loud
---
forgive my wording, it was not an "affair"
this makes me cry for two reasons at least, one being the damage that is done to people from abuse, and two being that you feel this could happen to you even now, and my heart goes out to you and i cry for the self that it seems you have had ripped away from you at some point. from what i have read of you isn't very much because this post of yours seems to be the most you have ever said at one time, but it seems you are a tender soul and even though all the crapola is there you are still a tender soul and i want to say to you that i am sorry that anybody ever hurt you.
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Tzaia
John - FWIW, I think you have done a fine job.
pawtucket
As John has stated on a number of replies, This is his "gig". He invited me to be on the panel. There was a lot of discussion. It is NOT a Greasespotcafe event. I just happen to be an invited guest.
I don't need to reinvent GS. This forum works. People get educated or enlightened. They asked questions and many times get answers from other peoples' experience. GS informs. The individual does what they want with the info. And hopefully, we have a little fun in the process.
I understand the wariness. It is a good tool to have. This is a one time event. I've often wondered what a situation like this online thing would be. Well John's going to test it out. I was wary about being on it for a while, too. I just decided that I would be on the panel one time and take it from there.
Honestly, John hooked me with technology. We tested it out a few weeks ago. (He really does have that 1960's Ozzie Nelson smile.)
Someone thought that not going wouldn't be supporting GS. Well don't worry about that. I don't really care one way or another, it's your decision.
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excathedra
awwww i wish you would invite refiners fire to be on the panel
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Twinky
A "lively evening" at the Webinar?
It's a pretty lively evening at the Cafe, discussing this! It's certainly attracting a lot of attention and a lot of heated posts.
How delightful that we can actually TALK about this. Have an opinion. Make up our own minds. Not be under compulsion. Not be coerced into any decision. Can attend and enjoy. Can not attend, and not suffer because of that.
Perhaps some reading this are lurkers, still innies.
Maybe it would help you if you were to participate in the Webinar. Give you courage to make the break.
Maybe you already made the break internally, just by being at the Cafe.
Maybe you already made the break physically, but internally you are still in bondage.
Just do what it takes to get a sound mind. :)
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excathedra
sowwy, heard he was invited and declined
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brainfixed
i think i get what john and pawtucket are saying, and i understand a little bit better the purpose of this thing, but i still feel uncomfortable with me being involved, so i hope that those who do get involved have a good time.
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excathedra
heebie jeebies
i just don't get it
but if you ever want to just talk and have fun in group, i'm game, just not sure i'll pay for it :)
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leafytwiglet
Interesting.. Well I would like to say it couldn't hurt to sit in... Not sure if I will or not yet. Gotta think it over... I am mostly fine with my life and have had few issues from my time in the way but I do tend to be very skeptical of invitations to seminars.. Funny that .. I see now I am not the only one... I suppose this is a side effect of being scammed big time. I used to follow blindly now I argue a lot first and look around to see if it really is something I should or shouldn't do.
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excathedra
oh where's the profit ? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha haha ha
if satori comes, i'll come, and pay 50 bucks lol
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Belle
Different things work for different folks and some folks can not afford personal one-on-one therapy. Some people are afraid of one-on-one and others are skeptical of forums like the cafe, or don't have anything as constructive and helpful as we have here at GSpot.
I can understand having a passion to help folks in whatever way you can and think this is a great way to help those who otherwise may not get any help at all.
I also understand so many questions and doubts, but chock some of it up to our knee jerk reaction due to our experience in TWI.
Were I still in TWI with no WayDale or GSpot, this webinar is exactly what I would have seen as a blessing. I would have claimed to have to "work late" and asked John if I could mail him a money order to hide the expense from my ex. I would have been extremely thankful for someone like John putting this together. Heck, it took me months to figure out how to order Juedes side-by-side plagiarism booklets from his site without my ex finding out.... and they only cost $1!
It's great to check people out and take every precaution but that also has to be tempered with giving people the benefit of the doubt. I don't know where that line is, but people signing up for this aren't committing to anything other than a little time and $25. We've gotten somewhat spoiled at how easy it is to connect with people who have been through what we have here at the cafe even though it costs Paw quite a bit and not just monetarily. He spends quite a bit out of his own pocket to keep the doors open for us and does have a Paypal link, but I'd guess most people who have benefitted from this place have not given him one red cent despite the benefits. (I'm lax on mine, actually
)
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now I see
Really? Where is this link, is Paw taking donations? I'm positive many, many of us would contribute to the keep Greasespot Running fund if we could-tell us more.....
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excathedra
hey paw would you go on there if refiner was there ?
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Belle
It's on the front page and has been metioned in the forums numerous times. I think getting screwed through PFAL and TWI has ruined people from really appreciating how much it costs (mentally, physically and MONETARILY) to provide help to people. I understand the knee jerk reaction to not wanting to pay for anything, but the truth is, Paw deserves some help paying for keeping the doors open for us and I'm a bit biased having learned of the trouble and cost first hand. Here's a link to the place on the home page of the Cafe: http://tinyurl.com/r6yyys.
Funny how the folks who complain the most about how awful this place is - post the most and pay the least for the privilege of complaining about it. <_< Nevermind those who have been helped the most from having a place to hea.
Am I biased? YES! I know how much of Paw's personal life and finances he has given to us.
And, NO, "many of us" do (and have) known about it and have not contributed a single penny.
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dmiller
The link is in the thread ETANOD, which spells DONATE, backwards. :)
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Belle
Nevermind my post and link... read Dmiller's....
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brainfixed
i won't assume to speak for anybody else because i can't, but please do not think that any "knee jerk reaction" i may have had or did have or whatever is because i don't want to pay for anything, because that is not at all the basis for any possible "knee jerk reation" i may have had or did have or whatever, and i pay my way in life and have a very good work ethic, and if i know up front that something is going to cost money then i can choose up front if i want to pay to participate. but i spent a long time thinking about how i felt about things and the being charged part was just a part of it all and not all of it, and the reason the being charged part bothered me was not an issue in and of itself but was just one something added with the other somethings that made me feel funny about the whole thing for me. and is it expected to pay for being here for my thoughts and feelings that i may share or have shared to be taken with any weight as valid, and if so how come that isn't in bold letters all over the place so i could know it before i started putting my thoughts and feelings out here? this just gets fishier and fishier for me and i am glad i thought a long time about it instead of just jumping in and participating without knowing all of this other stuff. if i am reading things all wrong then let me know, but i thought this topic was about the web seminar and the cost of that and not the cost of being here, so if i am wrong please let me know so i can make a better informed choice.
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dmiller
Both Belle and I were responding to a question posted by now I see. Nothing more, nothing less. :)
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now I see
Thanks guys, i see the link, never knew anything like that existed... cheers!
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leafytwiglet
Brainfixed .. We all kind of had the same knee jerk reaction.. and it wasn't about the money.... that was just a solid fact people could dig into.
Really what it boils down to is every one on here who has been in TWI for any amount of time has a tendency to distrust other peoples motives...and when a price is tacked on it sends our little warning sirens blaring.. I do this for any class or seminar even college classes I have to really look them over before I fork over my money.
I would venture to guess that most of us did not just jump on GSC and begin commenting right off the bat either but spent a good amount of time perusing the threads and trying to figure out the lay of the land so to speak.
Donating to Paw Tuckett was brought up because he foots the bill for GSC... and we all appreciate that and all the time he puts into running the site as for many of us it is the only help for us in our areas
It is a donation not a cost to you to be here and we all want to hear your thoughts and feeling just as much as we all want to share ours.
Edited because I spell atrociously!
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John M Knapp LMSW
Hey, Linda,
You're not being hard! I believe if you have a concern, it's courageous of you to voice it. Most people don't take the time. And it educates me as well as giving me an opportunity to explain.
And, most important, I think being cautious is an important part of recovery. Most of us just don't want to get involved in another high-demand or cultic situation. Using our experiences in our cult, which usually leads to caution about new "causes," is really turning a bad thing into a good thing.
So, anyway, thanks for voicing your concerns!
J.
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John M Knapp LMSW
Hi, chockfull,
A basic overview to how I practice with cult members is at http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cults.html and http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cultdefine.html.
But the short version is that I focus on recovery rather than "cult exit counseling." By that I mean, I work with individuals who have already left their group but are still experiencing cult-related difficulties -- sometimes years or decades later. Exit counselors offer information that may influence someone to leave a toxic group. It may be that a family arranges for an "intervention" in which a current cult member is faced with information about the group they are in, with an eye toward convincing them they should leave. Or in some cases, cult members seek out an exit counselor to help them leave the toxic group gracefully.
That's not what I do.
I work with my client to explore their strengths and how to apply them to recovery. Anyone who has survived and left a toxic group must have unique strengths. Examples might be courage or independent thinking as shown by leaving. But strengths may go much deeper: compassion, idealism, openness, and many others. I have a list of strengths that former cult members demonstrate at http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cultstrengths.html.
To some degree I follow a general outline in working with former members, although there is wide variation depending on the needs of each individual.
I use a "brief therapy" model. That means we start planning for the termination of therapy from the first session. My general goal is to work with a client no more than 12 sessions -- although I have worked with some individuals much longer, depending on the nature and difficulty of the challenges facing an individual.
My general outline is to spend 3 to 4 sessions reviewing the cultic processes that were used in one's group. I do this for three reasons: first, the more you know about cultic manipulation, the less likely one will fall for it in the future. Second, if you can see the intentional manipulation of your group, you may stop blaming yourself for "falling for" your cult's influence -- which can block recovery. Most people I work with tend to blame themselves. Which brings up the third reason I educate on cultic processes: Usually in reviewing cult beliefs and practices, we discover a number of beliefs taught by the group that still linger long after leaving -- and contribute to suffering in the here and now. An example is all-or-nothing thinking that leads often to a former member experiencing crippling perfectionism: "Nothing I do is good enough, so why should I try?" (This certainly doesn't happen for everyone, but it is an example that many people report.)
In the second phase, about 4 to 6 sessions, I use "cognitive therapy" to help former members to identify beliefs that linger after leaving the group and to challenge those beliefs. I use techniques found in "Mind Over Mood" and "Feeling Good," among other books. Generally this is the phase in which former members feel the most relief.
Finally, we work on balancing one's life after leaving the cult. I find this is the most important task a former cult member faces. Our toxic groups were everything to us: They influenced every aspect of our lives, from beliefs, to diet, to choice of life partners, and so forth. Many people leaving a toxic group replace one "obsession" with another. They may become workaholics, find a new church or cause, bury themselves in intense relationships, or otherwise focus on one aspect of their lives while neglecting others. People who successfully balance their lives are much less likely to be overwhelmed by pain -- which can be a trigger for returning to your toxic group or finding another to fill the hole.
There's a lot more to say, but I hope this gives you some idea of how I work. Feel free to ask questions or raise concerns!
J.
Acutally, ex, he accepted, but dropped out for reasons he never shared with me. We worked for a few weeks together, and then I stopped hearing from him. I'm not sure why.
J.
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brainfixed
thank you leafytwiglet and dmiller for taking the time to explain a little bit more to me, and i did have a knee jerk reaction to what seemed to me to be a reaming like i hadn't heard since the last twig i went to, and i haven't allowed in my life for awhile now, so i wanted to ask if i was hearing things the way they are or just the way someone feels, so i guess it's just the thoughts and feelings of someone so now i feel a bit more ok to participate here without feeling like i have to "tithe" or something (that's haha and not a commentary on anything.) :)
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excathedra
sorry, john knapp -- not sure then
--
my mom and siblings are always on me about hanging out with ex-cultists -- like you can get help from people who got sucked in too ? lol
there's something to be said for that although it's been very helpful to get things out of my system this way
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i don't know. i really wonder. i know a lot of ex-druggies become drug counselors because they really understand
but i also wonder how much cult type thinking still remains in counselors like you, john -- not trying to offend at all -- thinking is all i'm doing
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anyone else on the panel -- is it a panel -- does not have training, am i correct ?
do the blind lead the blind ? we all bring our baggage, that's for sure
so like i said, i'm just thinking
it gets hard to trust anyone
one gal i know who went to a professional counselor (NOT an excultist) ended up having an affair with him -- she had already been raped and been in a cult, etc., etc.
so that's really scary. sounds like something that would happen to me for crying out loud
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forgive my wording, it was not an "affair"
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brainfixed
this makes me cry for two reasons at least, one being the damage that is done to people from abuse, and two being that you feel this could happen to you even now, and my heart goes out to you and i cry for the self that it seems you have had ripped away from you at some point. from what i have read of you isn't very much because this post of yours seems to be the most you have ever said at one time, but it seems you are a tender soul and even though all the crapola is there you are still a tender soul and i want to say to you that i am sorry that anybody ever hurt you.
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excathedra
that was so nice of you, brainfixed
i don't think it would happen to me now
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