O hell yea---I wouldnt call it a coming of age so much as the initial moments of control manipulations were over and was time to move you on to other levels of things to do. After that it became newer manipulations to get involved in the next class, vaccuuming, stringing chairs, making posters , absing, raking the branch leaders lawn...signing people up...whatever was dictated
It never really was about helping people with their problems or their '"quirks"...It was about controlling people to become manageable and pliant to the goals of the groups. God forbid anyone showed up with a real problem and didnt jump to the whims of someone who wanted to fix it all by signing them up for a class to make themselves look good.
I'd met a WoW and was fascinated by the knowledge he had of the Bible, and also that "coincidences" happened to him regularly - just what he'd prayed for. Despite this, no way did I want this class he was so keen to sell. He was under a lot of pressure from interim Corps (though I ddn't realise it at the time) to stop hanging out with me. Eventually I did take the class but wasn't convinced by it. I continued to hang out with the WoWs, and this one in particular, but nobody else was interested in me and I don't recall any post-class follow-up.
I lived in another city some 30 miles away and not a one of them ever contacted me.
He left to go into the Corps and I remained where I was. Still none of them contacted me.
I was keen to do the intermediate class but despite contacting the remaining believers/twig, still nobody ever got in touch with me. I think they saw me as a time-waster (!) because I didn't attend regularly (hard, when you're in another city, and to use public transport would mean a journey on the slow train and getting back to my city at about 1.30 am and then still having to go a couple of miles to my home ... but they never thought about that).
I was transferred to work in the city where the WoWs were and eventually took the Intermediate class. I started to attend twig regularly (staying overnight with a colleague) and sought their advice. Of course, they were all in no-skill jobs and only kids to boot, so they were completely incapable of giving me any helpful advice about how to deal with my work situation, which was very difficult with a manipulative boss and me tied into a two-year professional training contract. In fact, they ended up hurting me badly. I could not understand their facile attitude.
I think I was standing very capably on my own two feet way before I took the class. It scared them. It was only after the class that my life started to go downhill. Too many accusations of being "sense knowledge" oriented and not "walking by revelation." But absolutely nothing of practical help from the "revelation" that they had.
Eventually I met some quite wise Corps grads, lovely people, themselves deeply hurting but they really did their best for me. (I caught up with them recently.)
I suppose I should add that all this was going on in the mid to late 80s. I think VPW had just died and the fog years were swirling.
It says a lot for the dearth of knowledge or sound teaching in the established churches that I persisted in wanting to know more..boy did I get to know more...
When I "took the class" we were all friends so that's not at all like what happened for me either. Everyone liked each other or was getting to know each other. Over the years the dynamic changed ministry wide, I'd agree.
But I encountered enough of this to realize that indeed - the best place to be in relation to the Way is "seriously considering taking The Class and want to hear more". That way everyone's nice to you, cares, calls, and provides supportive warm and fuzzies.
After The Class, you're on your own, time to wake up and smell the coffee. In fact, buy the coffee, bring it, brew it and pour it. Clean up. Beat it. Do it again.
This isn't all that strange, although I think the way it was handled leaves a lot to be desired.
I belong to the Great Banquet community and people are invited by members of the community to spend 3 nights and 3 days in a sequestered area of the church to hear talks, eat great food, and fellowship. A team of around 60 people and a community of helpers basically present this weekend to the guests. The weekend starts on Thursday with the guests not really knowing who is a guest and who is on team, and nearly everything is handled by either the team or the community, including getting up, meds, and whatever else is needed to make the weekend work. By Sunday morning, the guests are expected to pitch in to break down the sleeping areas and help in other ways. The full-blown love out lasts through Saturday night with the descent to earth starting Sunday morning. It is a bit of a shock after all the special treatment, but not because people get in your face - mainly because you are dead tired. Guests are encouraged to help on teams or as a part of the community on subsequent weekends, but no one is required to do anything beyond the weekend, including pay for the weekend, which costs around $75 per person in food. (no bad coffee)
If someone comes constantly comes in late and always disrupts the meeting, then a private discussion about not being disruptive is warranted, but supporting the "bad" behavior and then criticizing it because a class was taken is just insane. I heard it. I got it. I ignored it. Over the years I have gotten much better about being on time, but it was not because of PFAL - more along the lines of in spite of.
If attending meetings, being on time, and mastering group think ettiquette was any kind of a barometer for spirituality, then the Church Lady would be JC on a stick.
I think it really boils down to the maturity of people within any of the Christian clicks. twi had (and still has) many, many immature people in positions of authority and responsibility. To order people around (yes, I know people who would and will 'kill' someone on orders) and people willing to 'blindly' obey any dumb 'orders' given, SO smacks of an immature personality it's very, very sad.
Btw, I'm not talking 'spiritual maturity' either, those jokesters wouldn't even qualify to pour the water, let alone wash the masters feet.
There is a 'mean' spirit that pervades twi and they're too blind to see it.
I don't remember being "wined & dined" before taking the class, or any change after taking it. The local branch had already gotten their quota together when I started showing up and I felt no pressure one way or the other. However I did see this behavior later on in the TWI timeline.
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mstar1
O hell yea---I wouldnt call it a coming of age so much as the initial moments of control manipulations were over and was time to move you on to other levels of things to do. After that it became newer manipulations to get involved in the next class, vaccuuming, stringing chairs, making posters , absing, raking the branch leaders lawn...signing people up...whatever was dictated
It never really was about helping people with their problems or their '"quirks"...It was about controlling people to become manageable and pliant to the goals of the groups. God forbid anyone showed up with a real problem and didnt jump to the whims of someone who wanted to fix it all by signing them up for a class to make themselves look good.
Looking back I shouldve been late more often
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Twinky
Actually it didn't happen this way at all for me.
I'd met a WoW and was fascinated by the knowledge he had of the Bible, and also that "coincidences" happened to him regularly - just what he'd prayed for. Despite this, no way did I want this class he was so keen to sell. He was under a lot of pressure from interim Corps (though I ddn't realise it at the time) to stop hanging out with me. Eventually I did take the class but wasn't convinced by it. I continued to hang out with the WoWs, and this one in particular, but nobody else was interested in me and I don't recall any post-class follow-up.
I lived in another city some 30 miles away and not a one of them ever contacted me.
He left to go into the Corps and I remained where I was. Still none of them contacted me.
I was keen to do the intermediate class but despite contacting the remaining believers/twig, still nobody ever got in touch with me. I think they saw me as a time-waster (!) because I didn't attend regularly (hard, when you're in another city, and to use public transport would mean a journey on the slow train and getting back to my city at about 1.30 am and then still having to go a couple of miles to my home ... but they never thought about that).
I was transferred to work in the city where the WoWs were and eventually took the Intermediate class. I started to attend twig regularly (staying overnight with a colleague) and sought their advice. Of course, they were all in no-skill jobs and only kids to boot, so they were completely incapable of giving me any helpful advice about how to deal with my work situation, which was very difficult with a manipulative boss and me tied into a two-year professional training contract. In fact, they ended up hurting me badly. I could not understand their facile attitude.
I think I was standing very capably on my own two feet way before I took the class. It scared them. It was only after the class that my life started to go downhill. Too many accusations of being "sense knowledge" oriented and not "walking by revelation." But absolutely nothing of practical help from the "revelation" that they had.
Eventually I met some quite wise Corps grads, lovely people, themselves deeply hurting but they really did their best for me. (I caught up with them recently.)
I suppose I should add that all this was going on in the mid to late 80s. I think VPW had just died and the fog years were swirling.
It says a lot for the dearth of knowledge or sound teaching in the established churches that I persisted in wanting to know more..boy did I get to know more...
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socks
When I "took the class" we were all friends so that's not at all like what happened for me either. Everyone liked each other or was getting to know each other. Over the years the dynamic changed ministry wide, I'd agree.
But I encountered enough of this to realize that indeed - the best place to be in relation to the Way is "seriously considering taking The Class and want to hear more". That way everyone's nice to you, cares, calls, and provides supportive warm and fuzzies.
After The Class, you're on your own, time to wake up and smell the coffee. In fact, buy the coffee, bring it, brew it and pour it. Clean up. Beat it. Do it again.
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Tzaia
This isn't all that strange, although I think the way it was handled leaves a lot to be desired.
I belong to the Great Banquet community and people are invited by members of the community to spend 3 nights and 3 days in a sequestered area of the church to hear talks, eat great food, and fellowship. A team of around 60 people and a community of helpers basically present this weekend to the guests. The weekend starts on Thursday with the guests not really knowing who is a guest and who is on team, and nearly everything is handled by either the team or the community, including getting up, meds, and whatever else is needed to make the weekend work. By Sunday morning, the guests are expected to pitch in to break down the sleeping areas and help in other ways. The full-blown love out lasts through Saturday night with the descent to earth starting Sunday morning. It is a bit of a shock after all the special treatment, but not because people get in your face - mainly because you are dead tired. Guests are encouraged to help on teams or as a part of the community on subsequent weekends, but no one is required to do anything beyond the weekend, including pay for the weekend, which costs around $75 per person in food. (no bad coffee)
If someone comes constantly comes in late and always disrupts the meeting, then a private discussion about not being disruptive is warranted, but supporting the "bad" behavior and then criticizing it because a class was taken is just insane. I heard it. I got it. I ignored it. Over the years I have gotten much better about being on time, but it was not because of PFAL - more along the lines of in spite of.
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now I see
If attending meetings, being on time, and mastering group think ettiquette was any kind of a barometer for spirituality, then the Church Lady would be JC on a stick.
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coolchef
socks,you failes to heed heavy revy again!
you forgot the damn cookies!!!!
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Big Ben
I think it really boils down to the maturity of people within any of the Christian clicks. twi had (and still has) many, many immature people in positions of authority and responsibility. To order people around (yes, I know people who would and will 'kill' someone on orders) and people willing to 'blindly' obey any dumb 'orders' given, SO smacks of an immature personality it's very, very sad.
Btw, I'm not talking 'spiritual maturity' either, those jokesters wouldn't even qualify to pour the water, let alone wash the masters feet.
There is a 'mean' spirit that pervades twi and they're too blind to see it.
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waysider
Like it was yesterday.
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Oakspear
I don't remember being "wined & dined" before taking the class, or any change after taking it. The local branch had already gotten their quota together when I started showing up and I felt no pressure one way or the other. However I did see this behavior later on in the TWI timeline.
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Twinky
Anyway, Copes, shouldn't you be subtly dissuading her from going too far?
At the least, help her to retain what critical thinking skills she may have!!!
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