Guys, you both have valid points. Can we avoid a big argument here? (Hate to ruin FreshAir's thread) QQ, that is an awesome link. I saved it to send to a few people I know who can really benefit from it.
Oldies, I hope we can meet in person someday or talk on the phone. It is not easy to summarize on a thread 25+ years in TWI, Way Corps, etc. There are no simple answers here. It was a gradual erosion. There were benefits and there were good people who were hurt badly and so unnecessarily.
I don't know if I will ever understand what happened. But I am striving to do as Buds suggests and not hold bitterness. Part of what helps me do that is to share my experiences both good an bad. I am not bitter but I feel compelled to speak the truth about certain situations so that others may avoid similar pitfalls.
TWI itself is obviously trying to change due to this openess. But in my opinion they have waited too long to fix it. Irreparable damage has been done.
As I have shared before, I honestly think the best thing they could do for themselves and others at this point it to close up shop and start with a fresh approach under a completely new name with a completely new direction with new leadership and trustees in a less secluded area. A spinoff!
Problem is, it appears that there is no one with enough vision or inspiration in their ranks to do this.
When I signed on the line to partake of a corps "training"..........the form specified that it was for those who desired to develop their natural leadership ability and lead others to Christ.
My corps application said NOTHING about staying committed to twi for the rest of my life!!!
When Scripture speaks of BEWARE OF WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING......I now more fully comprehend the depth of such warnings!!!!!
The frog in the frying pan analogy is the best way to describe what happened to many of us. Do you think that if the frog could see into the future to his demise that he would not jump out of the pan before he got burned? The seclusion and all the rest came in such small events that it was hardly noticed. We are talking about decades for some! The major events (going corpse, wow, moving umpteen times) were hardly noticed because the habit was engrained, follow your leader, do the Word, be a faithful staked out dog soldier for Gawd!
A lifetime of christian service? No. That is not what we were told when we joined up as "Way Corps Volunteers."
It was to be a few years of christian leadership training. Then on with your life as God worked in you to will and do of His good pleasure.
Little by little, more was demanded.....
Mandatory statewide Corps meetings each month at our Region coordinator, Rev. Gerald W.s house in 1979 should have given me my first clue that we were being subjected to more and more control.
Little by little ..... more legalsim
1984 - VPW and LCM ranted to the entire Corps audience "If you can't come to both Corps week AND the Rock, then you shouldn't come at all."
1994 - You could not marry outside the Way Corps or you are kicked out of the Corps. This invalidated the commitments of some of the greatest people in the Way Corps such as Hal and hundreds of others with tremendous ability and heart. To remain in the fold you both had to uproot and go through the entire training again.
The legalism began to grow teeth.........
1995 - You must quit your job and be out of all debt and become employed full time by TWI or you are out of the Way Corps and subject to scrutiny.
1996 / 1997 - Going down to the twig level, the purges began. You were subject to Mark & Avoid or at best probation if you did not live up to the standards of The Way. It was during this period that many of us noticed that being a twig member began to resemble being in The Way Corps.
1998 - 2000 - No debt is tolerated! What actions were you going to take to remove all debt? Progress reports and classes were mandatory if you expected to last long. Way Corps were more anal retentive than ever with their fax machines rolling day & night reporting every move that was made..... checking back.... reporting back ... waiting for the nod from top leadership at HQ. Confronting, purging the ranks, being mean as hell, the abused Way Corps became adept at abusing.
It was a long strange trip and I am still suffering from the morning-after side effects. -->
John Richeson
[This message was edited by igotout on January 13, 2003 at 21:31.]
And some of 'em liked being that way I might add. At least some I had which are still in twi. It was a well thought out system that slowly was yeilding the results.
Maybe oldies doesn't see that as being a victim. Not that I'm trying to get this thread back to that.
But some were just plain blindsided with abuse just as sudden as 9-11. And a realization that they were in a system of abuse, seduction and seclusion.
Interesting thread. Can we talk about the lasting effects of this seclusion thing? As for me, I have not been "secluded" for four years, but still find myself operating under that mind-set at times. I don't often go to church or get involved in Bible discussions these days, but when I do ... I consistently slip into that notion of "I know so much more than all these idiots", which is an attitude about spiritual stuff that TWI programmed into me, and which they used to justify our seclusion. Likewise, I still have trouble - a LOT of trouble - trusting people. Now, part of that problem is of course because I trusted TWI and got burned, but some of it is also because it was pounded into us to beware of anyone who was not a "believer". I think both my arrogant attitude about knowing the Word, and my distrust of others is the result of several years of seclusion. - Still shaking off the past. -Pat
Pat - You got me thinking about lasting effects of the seclusion of twi life. I'm a prime example. For the first couple years out of twi, I tried to find a church, but I had that waybrain superiority complex going, which prevented me from being satisfied for years. Now, when I go to church I don't expect them to teach me great things, I go to be with others that love God. I enjoy it much more with my new attitude.
(When the elderly Baptist minister is preaching (NOT teaching - ;)--> ) and gets a little lost in his sermon, I don't feel impatient, I just pray for him. He always gets it back on track and winds it up nicely.)
I make a point of not dominating any and all conversations about God or Christianity. I get to enjoy the people I'm with much more this way, and I find that other people really do have a lot to offer in terms of friendship and fun, as well as knowledge. Why was that such a surprise to me?
I no longer expect anyone else to see things the way I do - I enjoy the differences. I just plain enjoy life much better this way.
I've even started reading my bible again and am enjoying it! Not what anyone says I have to because of the time of year it is - just what I FEEL like reading. WHEN I feel like it and only as much as I feel like. No rules.
I notice I'm really enjoying all of life again these days. Cool.
Schwagers...absolutely, the seclusion is hardest mindset to break...many ex wafers never do...just continue to hang out with ex way or spin off groups....because we are unable to recieve God`s blessings and further instruction due to our being uncomfortable around nbw way sources.
The spiritually smug, superior attitude that we developed while in twi....imo was what prevented me from recieving the healing and blessings that God intended, for so many years after leaving twi.
It helped me personally to get involved with non *religious* activities....ie in the humane society, softball, local theatre....karate class etc.
It is amazing the caring, generous folks that God will put in your path to ease you back into the *real* world.
I find there are folks that inspire and teach, whom may never step foot in a church, and yet....can be so instumental in revealing God`s heart and love for us.
quote:Oldies, I hope we can meet in person someday or talk on the phone. It is not easy to summarize on a thread 25+ years in TWI, Way Corps, etc. There are no simple answers here. It was a gradual erosion. There were benefits and there were good people who were hurt badly and so unnecessarily
Hi John,
Thanks for the invitation to talk; that would be nice someday.
No doubt in my mind that at various times, folks were treated badly; to deny that would be nuts. However, I still don't accept the victim mentality propaganda that permeates Greasespot Cafe.
In my opinion, the "frog in the frying pan" analogy doesn't fit because it assumes that we (the frogs) were there to be cooked by an all-encompassing evil. Slowly, slowly we were being cooked...it was planned that way.
I still don't buy it...
There were other forces at work; not only the forces of evil in peoples lives...
Because the victim mentality approach won't allow any room for the godly, wonderful things we experienced. It can't, because it's fundamentally at cross purposes with it.
Some folks involved with TWI forgot; care to forget; prefer not to recollect; prefer not to be forthcoming about; the wonderful ministry we once were part of. You can't do that, and portray yourself as a victim, at the same time; the two are incompatible.
I guess the reason why I come to vehemently disagree with some threads, is because the premise BEGINS with TWI being an evil organization from the start (frog in the frying pan, etc..)...I guess if that's true, the rest all makes sense. But I still haven't bought into that idea.
Getting back on topic, I accept that TWI-2 became completely secluded...that's very obvious.
We were sharply reproved in 1999 for our participation in our school site council. We had three kids in that school, No believers came to our school faire that we helped organize.
I have a teaching degree and volunteered as an aide for the neatest kindergarten teacher, with 28 kids in the class. We thought it was important for our kids and for the school.
BUT it was one Thursday night every month--a household fellowship night! Where were our spiritual priorities??
Oldiesman-- for me, I can't remember the 'old' days with a light heart. TWI1 and TWI2 are not that easy for me to separate. I lost most of my dear twi1 friends, and those that stayed like we did changed like we did over the years. We saw people change for the worse, from being warm and compassionate and fun to being hard,cold and angry--or simply frozen in fear.
So a sweet memory of Jane Believer from, say, the limb picnic in 1980 combined with the Jane Believer,1996 corps Nazi memory brings more regrets than anything else.
Funny thing--the reason we stayed in through the fog years when most of our dear ones left is because we remembered the sweet times so well and wanted them back. Look where that got us.
The two ARE compatable. Because being a victim of something is not an absolute thing. If you get mugged in an alley, you are still everything you were before you got mugged. You just have the additional experience and affects a crime. You are still an empowered victim.
On the same token, I'll agree with you: TWI was not 100% evil from the beginning. Because nothing in the universe is 100% singular. Nothing. Everything has parts to it. No one dimension can define an entire event, except in poetry.
B: "Do you like sweet food?"
A: "Yes."
B: "It's your favorite?"
A: "No. It's not my favorite."
B: "Then you lied. You hate it?"
A: "No, I don't hate it."
B: "Do you like chocolate covered snails?"
A: "No, I don't like chocolate covered snails."
B: "You are a liar, then."
;)-->
Pat,
Heerz some thoughts that helped me.
Forgiveness was the last thing on TWI's priority list.
Yet, it was towards the top on Jesus's, being one of his last acts on the cross.
I'm not talking about forgiveness for specific crimes.
That is a different discussion.
But forgiving human nature, in general.
Forgiveness for all of us for being limited.
Forgiving yourself for not knowing that you know that you know.
Forgiving others for not knowing the same.
Forgive the flesh and the actions and frailty of the flesh, so you can see what spirit may be growing there, be it a church, a stranger, an enemy, or most of all, yourself.
The more I try to be like this, the less stress I have.
The less fear of being wrong.
The less need to be right.
The more social I have become.
The more TWI seclusion I have shed.
I am now a successful art consultant for the most popular mainstream Christian artist in the country. Can you imagine being in TWI and trying that one?
If you've ever worked in retail sales (even mid-to-high end art), you have to deal with all kinds. Some, even real boneheads who don't think about much beyond the thrill of owning things with a Christian label on it. And they'll even drop 5 grand on it.
But, when I am driving home at night, I pray to God I can find out what bonehead things I do before someone else does. And if they do, I hope they trying to be as forgiving as I am trying to be about it.
Anyway...
I'm feeling less and less secluded these days - doctrinally, and practically, to use the 'ole vernacular.
I wish I could make it all the out to Plot's church at least once.
quote:Oldies said: Because the victim mentality approach won't allow any room for the godly, wonderful things we experienced. It can't, because it's fundamentally at cross purposes with it.
I will agree that through the years I've experienced many godly and wonderful things....MOST ALL, of which, were on the field far away from hq's ruling hand.
Oppressive leadership and policies only strive at stifling the believer. But the Scriptures show us, time and time again, that the humble ones were able to move with God IN SPITE OF the "leadership" of the land.
Fresh, I miss your posts when you aren't around. Good to see you!
I agree completely with your observation. It's even written:
1Cr 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
twi is confounded all over and it's by the very peons they pee on!
quote:Did any of you ever feel resentful of "new people"
that still had outside friends and activities (i.e. A LIFE)
Yes, I felt like this. Having pretty much lived all of my teen years in the word, I felt so resentful at times. I would hear of other teens having fun, going to concerts and doing 'teen' things together and I was sitting in a bible fellowship with a bunch of adults.
There were never any teens where I was. So I was always with adults.
I did make up for it at some point when I went to college and that was only because at the time I was not attending a fellowship. It was the greatest time of my adolescent years.
Party time!!!!! :D-->
PS I realize I'm not posting about the most recent posts. I haven't had the chance to read right to the end yet, but thought I would start by responding to the first few posts.
Yes. Agreed. all cults - moonies, TWI, Scientology isolate people to keep them
firmly rooted in their practices and teachings.
They also introduce jargon and terms not necessarily because its needed. But it gives
them a metric whereby they can gauge your level
of commitment to the group.
Those who become fluent in the jargon are recognized as the faithful whereas those who do not use the buzz words and phrases are easily recognized as new comers or perhaps malcontents who need "personal attention".
When I took PFAL for the first time I was
made to believe that that was the end point
of searching. Since it claimed to do all
the things that it said on that green card
"harmony in the family, etc" I was surprised
to learn that there were other classes to be
taken. One leader explained it like:
"Well PFAL is truly a masterpiece though its really just a survey of all the wonderful things God wants to do for us. The other classes are where you REALLY learn HOW to
apply the keys to abundance mentioned in PFAL".
So you are off to some other classes and by
then you are going to fellowships at least
twice a week (3 times if you are going to
family nights) and perhaps are giving people
rides to and from Twig and maybe even spending
sunays over at the Twig leaders house who is
helping you organize your first public teachings. So over time your personal life , such as it was, is non-existent. Your former friends are wondering what's up - so are your parents.
After this cycle they start mentioning the WOW
program where "you REALLY learn HOW to put it
all together - its just you and likeminded believers putting it all out there for God
Good post summing up the systematizing and trappings of twi. From one thing to another, there always was another bone to chew on.
Also, the pattern surely fits with other outfits....
quote:I've talked with people who had similar levels of involvement in other cults and except for the names of the classes mentione above its EXACTLY the same dynamic. What was supposed to be a one time thing turned into a lifestyle and then into bondage. The labels change but the methodology of all cults are more or less the same
That's the sum and substance of it. The system of seclusion is the red labeling of every cult.
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igotout
Guys, you both have valid points. Can we avoid a big argument here? (Hate to ruin FreshAir's thread) QQ, that is an awesome link. I saved it to send to a few people I know who can really benefit from it.
Oldies, I hope we can meet in person someday or talk on the phone. It is not easy to summarize on a thread 25+ years in TWI, Way Corps, etc. There are no simple answers here. It was a gradual erosion. There were benefits and there were good people who were hurt badly and so unnecessarily.
I don't know if I will ever understand what happened. But I am striving to do as Buds suggests and not hold bitterness. Part of what helps me do that is to share my experiences both good an bad. I am not bitter but I feel compelled to speak the truth about certain situations so that others may avoid similar pitfalls.
TWI itself is obviously trying to change due to this openess. But in my opinion they have waited too long to fix it. Irreparable damage has been done.
As I have shared before, I honestly think the best thing they could do for themselves and others at this point it to close up shop and start with a fresh approach under a completely new name with a completely new direction with new leadership and trustees in a less secluded area. A spinoff!
Problem is, it appears that there is no one with enough vision or inspiration in their ranks to do this.
My few cents after a long Monday.
John R.
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FreshAir 99
When I signed on the line to partake of a corps "training"..........the form specified that it was for those who desired to develop their natural leadership ability and lead others to Christ.
My corps application said NOTHING about staying committed to twi for the rest of my life!!!
When Scripture speaks of BEWARE OF WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING......I now more fully comprehend the depth of such warnings!!!!!
Fresh
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smitty
The frog in the frying pan analogy is the best way to describe what happened to many of us. Do you think that if the frog could see into the future to his demise that he would not jump out of the pan before he got burned? The seclusion and all the rest came in such small events that it was hardly noticed. We are talking about decades for some! The major events (going corpse, wow, moving umpteen times) were hardly noticed because the habit was engrained, follow your leader, do the Word, be a faithful staked out dog soldier for Gawd!
hal smith
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igotout
A lifetime of christian service? No. That is not what we were told when we joined up as "Way Corps Volunteers."
It was to be a few years of christian leadership training. Then on with your life as God worked in you to will and do of His good pleasure.
Little by little, more was demanded.....
Mandatory statewide Corps meetings each month at our Region coordinator, Rev. Gerald W.s house in 1979 should have given me my first clue that we were being subjected to more and more control.
Little by little ..... more legalsim
1984 - VPW and LCM ranted to the entire Corps audience "If you can't come to both Corps week AND the Rock, then you shouldn't come at all."
1994 - You could not marry outside the Way Corps or you are kicked out of the Corps. This invalidated the commitments of some of the greatest people in the Way Corps such as Hal and hundreds of others with tremendous ability and heart. To remain in the fold you both had to uproot and go through the entire training again.
The legalism began to grow teeth.........
1995 - You must quit your job and be out of all debt and become employed full time by TWI or you are out of the Way Corps and subject to scrutiny.
1996 / 1997 - Going down to the twig level, the purges began. You were subject to Mark & Avoid or at best probation if you did not live up to the standards of The Way. It was during this period that many of us noticed that being a twig member began to resemble being in The Way Corps.
1998 - 2000 - No debt is tolerated! What actions were you going to take to remove all debt? Progress reports and classes were mandatory if you expected to last long. Way Corps were more anal retentive than ever with their fax machines rolling day & night reporting every move that was made..... checking back.... reporting back ... waiting for the nod from top leadership at HQ. Confronting, purging the ranks, being mean as hell, the abused Way Corps became adept at abusing.
It was a long strange trip and I am still suffering from the morning-after side effects.
-->
John Richeson
[This message was edited by igotout on January 13, 2003 at 21:31.]
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Vertical Limit
"the abused Way Corps became adept at abusing."
And some of 'em liked being that way I might add. At least some I had which are still in twi. It was a well thought out system that slowly was yeilding the results.
Maybe oldies doesn't see that as being a victim. Not that I'm trying to get this thread back to that.
But some were just plain blindsided with abuse just as sudden as 9-11. And a realization that they were in a system of abuse, seduction and seclusion.
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Schwaigers
Interesting thread. Can we talk about the lasting effects of this seclusion thing? As for me, I have not been "secluded" for four years, but still find myself operating under that mind-set at times. I don't often go to church or get involved in Bible discussions these days, but when I do ... I consistently slip into that notion of "I know so much more than all these idiots", which is an attitude about spiritual stuff that TWI programmed into me, and which they used to justify our seclusion. Likewise, I still have trouble - a LOT of trouble - trusting people. Now, part of that problem is of course because I trusted TWI and got burned, but some of it is also because it was pounded into us to beware of anyone who was not a "believer". I think both my arrogant attitude about knowing the Word, and my distrust of others is the result of several years of seclusion. - Still shaking off the past. -Pat
schwaiger@direcway.com
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bowtwi
Pat - You got me thinking about lasting effects of the seclusion of twi life. I'm a prime example. For the first couple years out of twi, I tried to find a church, but I had that waybrain superiority complex going, which prevented me from being satisfied for years. Now, when I go to church I don't expect them to teach me great things, I go to be with others that love God. I enjoy it much more with my new attitude.
(When the elderly Baptist minister is preaching (NOT teaching -
;)--> ) and gets a little lost in his sermon, I don't feel impatient, I just pray for him. He always gets it back on track and winds it up nicely.)
I make a point of not dominating any and all conversations about God or Christianity. I get to enjoy the people I'm with much more this way, and I find that other people really do have a lot to offer in terms of friendship and fun, as well as knowledge. Why was that such a surprise to me?
I no longer expect anyone else to see things the way I do - I enjoy the differences. I just plain enjoy life much better this way.
I've even started reading my bible again and am enjoying it! Not what anyone says I have to because of the time of year it is - just what I FEEL like reading. WHEN I feel like it and only as much as I feel like. No rules.
I notice I'm really enjoying all of life again these days. Cool.
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rascal
Schwagers...absolutely, the seclusion is hardest mindset to break...many ex wafers never do...just continue to hang out with ex way or spin off groups....because we are unable to recieve God`s blessings and further instruction due to our being uncomfortable around nbw way sources.
The spiritually smug, superior attitude that we developed while in twi....imo was what prevented me from recieving the healing and blessings that God intended, for so many years after leaving twi.
It helped me personally to get involved with non *religious* activities....ie in the humane society, softball, local theatre....karate class etc.
It is amazing the caring, generous folks that God will put in your path to ease you back into the *real* world.
I find there are folks that inspire and teach, whom may never step foot in a church, and yet....can be so instumental in revealing God`s heart and love for us.
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oldiesman
Hi John,
Thanks for the invitation to talk; that would be nice someday.
No doubt in my mind that at various times, folks were treated badly; to deny that would be nuts. However, I still don't accept the victim mentality propaganda that permeates Greasespot Cafe.
In my opinion, the "frog in the frying pan" analogy doesn't fit because it assumes that we (the frogs) were there to be cooked by an all-encompassing evil. Slowly, slowly we were being cooked...it was planned that way.
I still don't buy it...
There were other forces at work; not only the forces of evil in peoples lives...
Because the victim mentality approach won't allow any room for the godly, wonderful things we experienced. It can't, because it's fundamentally at cross purposes with it.
Some folks involved with TWI forgot; care to forget; prefer not to recollect; prefer not to be forthcoming about; the wonderful ministry we once were part of. You can't do that, and portray yourself as a victim, at the same time; the two are incompatible.
I guess the reason why I come to vehemently disagree with some threads, is because the premise BEGINS with TWI being an evil organization from the start (frog in the frying pan, etc..)...I guess if that's true, the rest all makes sense. But I still haven't bought into that idea.
Getting back on topic, I accept that TWI-2 became completely secluded...that's very obvious.
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mj412
I agree again that twi didnt begin with an agenda of hurting people .
What as the agenda then ? I say it as sales to make an empire.
I do believe that was an agenda .
People corrupt with power or without depends on the type of person you are.
Yes some had roles to play many had roles to play those roles were defined by many factors.
I do not think those who dictated the control were any less victims of what was happening.
I may pity them even more.
A victim to me means someone who was hurt by no fault of their own... not neccesarily black and white statement .
I think oldesman is saying just because a person
didnt fully know or find out all the sorid details of why or what was happening with the leaders it has to be their problem and they cant be a victim.
ignorance you may say is no excuse.
Yet It wasnt just ignorance it was being blinded to truth that is a different thing.
a different thing and yes evil .
[This message was edited by mj412 on January 14, 2003 at 9:48.]
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Nightmelody
We were sharply reproved in 1999 for our participation in our school site council. We had three kids in that school, No believers came to our school faire that we helped organize.
I have a teaching degree and volunteered as an aide for the neatest kindergarten teacher, with 28 kids in the class. We thought it was important for our kids and for the school.
BUT it was one Thursday night every month--a household fellowship night! Where were our spiritual priorities??
Oldiesman-- for me, I can't remember the 'old' days with a light heart. TWI1 and TWI2 are not that easy for me to separate. I lost most of my dear twi1 friends, and those that stayed like we did changed like we did over the years. We saw people change for the worse, from being warm and compassionate and fun to being hard,cold and angry--or simply frozen in fear.
So a sweet memory of Jane Believer from, say, the limb picnic in 1980 combined with the Jane Believer,1996 corps Nazi memory brings more regrets than anything else.
Funny thing--the reason we stayed in through the fog years when most of our dear ones left is because we remembered the sweet times so well and wanted them back. Look where that got us.
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sirguessalot
Oldiesman,
The two ARE compatable. Because being a victim of something is not an absolute thing. If you get mugged in an alley, you are still everything you were before you got mugged. You just have the additional experience and affects a crime. You are still an empowered victim.
On the same token, I'll agree with you: TWI was not 100% evil from the beginning. Because nothing in the universe is 100% singular. Nothing. Everything has parts to it. No one dimension can define an entire event, except in poetry.
B: "Do you like sweet food?"
A: "Yes."
B: "It's your favorite?"
A: "No. It's not my favorite."
B: "Then you lied. You hate it?"
A: "No, I don't hate it."
B: "Do you like chocolate covered snails?"
A: "No, I don't like chocolate covered snails."
B: "You are a liar, then."
Pat,
Heerz some thoughts that helped me.
Forgiveness was the last thing on TWI's priority list.
Yet, it was towards the top on Jesus's, being one of his last acts on the cross.
I'm not talking about forgiveness for specific crimes.
That is a different discussion.
But forgiving human nature, in general.
Forgiveness for all of us for being limited.
Forgiving yourself for not knowing that you know that you know.
Forgiving others for not knowing the same.
Forgive the flesh and the actions and frailty of the flesh, so you can see what spirit may be growing there, be it a church, a stranger, an enemy, or most of all, yourself.
The more I try to be like this, the less stress I have.
The less fear of being wrong.
The less need to be right.
The more social I have become.
The more TWI seclusion I have shed.
I am now a successful art consultant for the most popular mainstream Christian artist in the country. Can you imagine being in TWI and trying that one?
If you've ever worked in retail sales (even mid-to-high end art), you have to deal with all kinds. Some, even real boneheads who don't think about much beyond the thrill of owning things with a Christian label on it. And they'll even drop 5 grand on it.
But, when I am driving home at night, I pray to God I can find out what bonehead things I do before someone else does. And if they do, I hope they trying to be as forgiving as I am trying to be about it.
Anyway...
I'm feeling less and less secluded these days - doctrinally, and practically, to use the 'ole vernacular.
I wish I could make it all the out to Plot's church at least once.
Todd
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FreshAir 99
I will agree that through the years I've experienced many godly and wonderful things....MOST ALL, of which, were on the field far away from hq's ruling hand.
Oppressive leadership and policies only strive at stifling the believer. But the Scriptures show us, time and time again, that the humble ones were able to move with God IN SPITE OF the "leadership" of the land.
Fresh
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insurgent
Fresh, I miss your posts when you aren't around. Good to see you!
I agree completely with your observation. It's even written:
1Cr 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
twi is confounded all over and it's by the very peons they pee on!
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A la prochaine
Yes, I felt like this. Having pretty much lived all of my teen years in the word, I felt so resentful at times. I would hear of other teens having fun, going to concerts and doing 'teen' things together and I was sitting in a bible fellowship with a bunch of adults.
There were never any teens where I was. So I was always with adults.
I did make up for it at some point when I went to college and that was only because at the time I was not attending a fellowship. It was the greatest time of my adolescent years.
Party time!!!!!
:D-->
PS I realize I'm not posting about the most recent posts. I haven't had the chance to read right to the end yet, but thought I would start by responding to the first few posts.
Merci.
'til the next time...
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diazbro
Yes. Agreed. all cults - moonies, TWI, Scientology isolate people to keep them
firmly rooted in their practices and teachings.
They also introduce jargon and terms not necessarily because its needed. But it gives
them a metric whereby they can gauge your level
of commitment to the group.
Those who become fluent in the jargon are recognized as the faithful whereas those who do not use the buzz words and phrases are easily recognized as new comers or perhaps malcontents who need "personal attention".
When I took PFAL for the first time I was
made to believe that that was the end point
of searching. Since it claimed to do all
the things that it said on that green card
"harmony in the family, etc" I was surprised
to learn that there were other classes to be
taken. One leader explained it like:
"Well PFAL is truly a masterpiece though its really just a survey of all the wonderful things God wants to do for us. The other classes are where you REALLY learn HOW to
apply the keys to abundance mentioned in PFAL".
So you are off to some other classes and by
then you are going to fellowships at least
twice a week (3 times if you are going to
family nights) and perhaps are giving people
rides to and from Twig and maybe even spending
sunays over at the Twig leaders house who is
helping you organize your first public teachings. So over time your personal life , such as it was, is non-existent. Your former friends are wondering what's up - so are your parents.
After this cycle they start mentioning the WOW
program where "you REALLY learn HOW to put it
all together - its just you and likeminded believers putting it all out there for God
and WATCH OUT - he will blow your mind with
his blessings".
So if you take that bait then after that its
like. "well you have great potential you know
and its God's will for you to be your best
and the ONLY place to reach that potential
is in the Corps program. Its where you REALLY
learn HOW to reach the heart of God and his
people".
I've talked with people who had similar
levels of involvement in other cults and
except for the names of the classes mentione
above its EXACTLY the same dynamic. What
was supposed to be a one time thing turned
into a lifestyle and then into bondage. The
labels change but the methodology of all
cults are more or less the same.
Its amazing that there are former Way people
who do not see any of this and will not agree
that TWI was even a cult. I guess they had
a sweet setup and somehow escaped the grind
of the average believer. Good for them - Its
good that somebody got over on TWI. But the
larger share of former Way people readily
acknowledge the cult nature of TWI.
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FreshAir 99
diazbro,
Good post summing up the systematizing and trappings of twi. From one thing to another, there always was another bone to chew on.
Also, the pattern surely fits with other outfits....
That's the sum and substance of it. The system of seclusion is the red labeling of every cult.
Fresh
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