I was far far away from headquaters, yet the same thing was happening to those around me.
It was a cult I say that in a sense of they taught everything that was not twi instilled was evil .
Ok live(if you must) but do not let that tainted world touch you or you will die.
most didnt live and I think women suffered most because many couldnt work outside the home , so the only exposure to people they had was twi fellowship.
Home school began to get popular , I mean all those devil spirits in public schools forcing evilness in the mind.
I think school was the only relief some of those kids got.
those who didnt get home schooled sometimes had individual thoughts as they grew older, the solution to that mighty sin was get them out of your house those rebellious unbelievers and many did just that or stopped being a parent to them .
the constant relocations as well those kids had no lasting childhood friends or memories , other believer kids was the only thing safe to play with .
cult
[This message was edited by mj412 on January 11, 2003 at 8:49.]
Lately, when I think of TWI I think of Waco or Guyana. I don't think they're all going to kill themselves in Ohio or Gunnison, but the seclusion is becoming much like those other two groups.
That's why when QQ posted his thread about TWI predictions, mine was that they'll sell HQ's and move the whole operation to Gunnison. It's more secluded... easier to hide there than at HQ's - and it doesn't require as many people to run the place.
The other thing that secludes TWI people, even those who live in normal communities is the teaching to "be ye not unequally yoked with unbelievers". I heard that teaching the first year I was in TWI... one of those green retemories from the D/W/A class.
In 1995 at the last Rock - that's what LCM taught. It was titled "Living Sanctified" but was more like living in isolation, seclusion, withdrawal. Stay with the people who "do the word" who will "keep you sharp" in the household!
A quote from that class that I just happen to have is: "God will keep you protected if you stand in the household and get yourself in the sanctified category of living God's word. God can then bare His arm and protect you."
In other words, IF you stand in the household - THEN God will protect you.
The devilish teaching of the "household" evokes isolation and seclusion from the rest of the world.
It also teaches fear and disdain of anyone who has no TWI involvement - which leads to further seclusion.
It teaches ridicule of those who "don't know as much" and/or other religions - which takes away any temptation to seek them out - which keeps people under the thumb and in need of TWI's doctrines. More isolation and reclusiveness.
Great topic... one for the psychology and sociology books for sure...
And isn't seclusion part of the "cult mentality" we've all read about?
Hope brought up the point about ridiculing people who don't know as much. I saw this big time, and even participated. It wasn't until later that I began to see Christians in other religions who manifested a lot more love and believing than anyone in TWI.
I saw signs, miracles and wonders following those who believe, not those affiliated with TWI.
While still in TWI, I became friends and a prayer partner with a co-worker. We prayed for a couple of things that came through like 3-D fireworks! Right there in the office we were hugging and crying and laughing as we both saw a prayer answered right there and then.
If I had told anyone in the fellowship about this wonderful situation, they would have frowned and questioned it's authenticity as being from the true God. Better to remain a cripple praying to God with the sanction of TWI than to pray with someone outside of TWI and get healed. No way could it have been genuine. And if it was, why wasn't I bringing this person to fellowship? (I would have thought, "And ruin them?")
There is no way you can ridicule someone and actually think you are loving them by speaking the Word. Did Jesus ridicule anyone? Did he have that superiority air about him?
Thanks for your heartfelt welcome back. I've enjoyed my mini-vacation from twi-postings. Heck, I go whole weeks now without even thinking about their evil doings and abuse.
Hope, good points about sanctified teachings and twi's disdain for others. Clearly, they have an agenda.......one that ISOLATES "their" people from friends, family, co-workers, other Christians, and the evil world of unbelievers.
Systematically, twi draws individuals into their epicenter of seclusion. Once there, it becomes very difficult to break away from its "in-household honoring" and "way-worship."
Even in PFAL.....one was ambushed with "higher truth" and "living the mystery with twi mentality" apart from all other Christians. Again, ISOLATION was one of the major staples of vpw's agendas.
Is it any wonder that abuse of power ensued??? The system of seclusion........whether at hq, camp gunnison, lead outdoor academy, emporia, rome city, gartmore, or wherever.......will always bring darkness.
Power-filled Christians, as LIGHTS of the world, are to be "on display" for ALL THE WORLD TO SEE........not secluded in a dark dungeon of despair and devilish dealings.
Why should we be surprised that twi continues to spiral downward???
As I was reading through my son's history book about American slavery, it said that originally,the slaves were indentured slaves, they were paid and then let go after an agreed amount of time. In the space of about 42 years, the servitude changed into enslavement.
So many times men start off on "semi-innocent" courses but when the power hungry become leaders
then the course of history follows. Pride, greed, and love of money....
Can't think about it too much, it still makes me mad, but so glad we have this forum (underground railroad) to get comfort. Love you all, EH
This word seclusion is interesting. If indeed it is self-imposed for a period of strengthening oneself in your convictions, be it godly or morally, for a time being that could be helpful. But what twi has done is impose it on their way household to the end they are cut off from being able to function normally.
My son was a friend with a young lady born and raised at HQ. They were at the advanced class together and she shared her heart with him. Telling him she needed that class to help her avoid being kicked in the butt all the time by the adversary. She said having lived only on grounds was isolating to her and had left her helpless against the real world. And she felt her personal adversary was well aware of her weakness and regularly kicked her butt because of it.
They view it as safety, to pull back from the entanglements of the world. But they have pulled back from people?s hearts as well. Placing themselves on a higher plain of action and thoughts. Yet as we who have walked away can see clearly they have isolated themselves to the point of control and personal destruction. Their seclusion has aided in disengaging themselves from more than material things. It has caused them to actually disconnect from those who they say they are on earth to reach.
Did any of you ever feel resentful of "new people"
that still had outside friends and activities (i.e. A LIFE) and then did you get that feeling of exhileration (for lack of a better word) as they slowly started to reject former friends/family/activities as they got more and more involved with the wonderful household?
"I did" he says while mentally kicking himself in the butt.
I felt jealous. On our interim year I was under such pressure that as I walked downtown to work each day (we only had one vehicle) and passed folks eating and laughing around me I would ache in my heart. I yearned for that.
Interesting.......vpw taught his classes live from 1953-1968. Those Ohio folk sat and listened......many of whom left, never to return.
THEN......PFAL was filmed and, step by step, the system of seclusion walked in.
* Sign up for the class -- make a commitment.
* Class separates believers from unbelievers.
* No questions would be tolerated during class.
* Quit reading all other secular material.
* Take other classes.....more isolation.
* Go WOW......leave family/college/home.
* Go WOW again.....establish your "growth."
* Take Adv Class...see life thru spiritual eyes.
* Go Way Corps.....leave all else behind.
* For many, work at hq......live in founders hall (uuugh).
So much more could be added to this short list.
Seclusion was the brain-child of vpw's "success." Physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually......it gave vpw a fixed audience and instant authority.
Just my opinion, but while under VP it seemed like we were in an elite club, separate from society yet reaching out and also living within that society. We claimed to have an open book and offered all a chance to come and look in. Remember that there were no strangers at the Way? Seclusion was the norm and encouraged, yet not demanded and through the hurried schedules of twigs and classes it was mostly unavoidable.
But then came the mid to late 90's and it became the true household of God and we needed to be ever vigilant to stay with the present truth, we needed to prevail. Come out and be separate because evil and good can not occupy the same space; evil will always win out against good. There was no longer the disguise of reaching out and bringing the new into the fold, mandates demanded to find not those in need but those that were ready made. I.E. they were successful in their lives and have a lot to offer when they walked through the door.
No longer did the followers faithfully reach out to the world, they confronted the world and becoming involved with an unbeliever was considered sin and a waste of time. Had a person heard the Word and not sold out to TWI2 they were to be shaken off like dust and we were to move on! Some people were told to change jobs as they claimed to have witnessed to all fellow employees and no one came. But wait, they didn?t witness they confronted them about their unbelief and their idolatry.
Maybe seclusion does described TWI-1 and total isolation a better way to describe what TWI has become and there are no signs that is changing.
I wonder if TWI is has changed its tactics since you left. Maybe GreaseSpot has forced them to rethink their anality!
In my opinion, there seems to be a big difference to the seclusion you describe and what is taking place in New Knoxville and the surrounding area.
For example, people from the way are active in the school district. They do everything from serve on the park board to coordinating cheerleading. their kids are involved in every sport and competition the school offers.
Once guy named Don Smith is even on local TV and gaining recognition as a reputable artist.
So, I'm not saying that your observations from the past are incorrect, but want to bring the current situation to your attention.
Do you think they are trying to be assimilated into the culture, or is this just another ploy? From what I can see, whenever they do one of their "open house" church services, many locals are showing up just to take a look.
Thanks for continuing to post and share your experiences. No matter what TWI is doing now, it is important that people never forget where they came from.
As you describe the current situation there from twi staff......I wonder if this same situation applies for innies on the field.
Sometimes there is a vast difference between hq's public relation tactics and what is deemed acceptable commitment by corps and advanced class grads on the field.
Perhaps, as you mentioned.....twi HAS adjusted their past mode of operation to new methods. Wouldn't surprise me one bit. Especially now that they've stashed $47 million away.
Yeah, they might be comfortably sitting on a big NEST EGG today.....but it was nurtured from decades of deception and is rotten.
The way always had those special ones they trusted and knew wouldnt make a mistake as public relation experts.
Advertisment people with no real substance in them , they could be allowed with permission cause most liked them( or tolerated) and the leaders knew they had them under full control .
the folks NK talks about are the most scary and insiduous types like two faced bastards setting you up for the kill.
Not kidding I know that sounds harsh , I saw them and how they got that way .
It is caused DENIAL and playing mind games with themselves and the general public .
They did not take the hard stand for Gods word and his ministry of course not they were fine and dandy and normal living in a cult world they just were the bait.
Most had no clue who they were or what they thought in any genuine way , just proving to the world we are fine and let me tell they get kudos for it.
Most were fake people you know the ones with the constant smile and high pitched vioces?
What nk says is true,however, they have created a (much) more defined division/chasm between leadership (inlcuding assistant TC's) and the rank and file. Saw this big time towards the end of my leadership stint. You are not to share many many more things now that are taught at leaders meetings and especially not to let down your guard when talking to people whose loyalty or spiritual maturity is in question (like me or my wife)
....hard to put this into words but I'm sure many know what I'm talking about. While on one hand they want to be perceived as more kind and loving they are even more guarded, suspicious and judgemental than ever. The conversations they have between themselves must be disgusting.
I'll try to think this through better it's real slimy stuff.
Jeez, this thread almost has me crying as I remember the systematic taking apart of life as I had known it.One vivid memory was Christmas 1982 when Nancy was at Camp Gunnison and I was in Lakeland Fl I spent Christmas Eve in a downtown bar with cheap draft beer, Marlboros and complete strangers I didn't have any close friends or invites, and who wants to spend that special time with those other than family and close friends? Christmas morning was a bummer also. I didn't even attend the funerals of my dear Grandparents and uncles because I didn't have the money to travel, and I had to do the work of the ministry. I saw my parents once a year for a day or two as I passed through on my way to the ROA. to be isolated in a gd corn field for 2 weeks with Corps week and the Rock. I could go on,but I won't. I thought I was over this stuff, but I guess not It has been excellent therapy to read and ponder on these posts!
They are not just in CYA mode, they are in PYJ mode (Protect your job). If they trust the wrong peons, I mean believers or if they lose people due to telling them the truth, they (leadership) are out. I know that not all LC's know everything. TWI has simply lied about how 'big that fish was' too many times. IMO they can never recover from this, so they turn it into a spiritual maturity issue, etc.
I believe NK resident has it right. TWI is now becoming involved with communities bigtime. However I do not believe for a minute that it is for any purpose other than outreach.
After all, anyone on staff must have oodles of free time now. There can't possibly be much to do. They can encourage people to commit to school activities because there are no classes running or special events going on.
They obviously have changed the old "witness to friends, family and co-workers" to witness to your community. And rather than going door-to-door (which didn't work) they now use group activities for good causes. That way people are already convinced that you have a good heart and are likeminded in wanted to help people.
Anyone in twi for any length of time have already tried to sell twi to all their friends, family and co-workers. The community is the only other place with new potential victims.
School activities are the easiest to encourage. And the easiest to rescind later on.
In today's twi, the innies rarely [especially those outside the 250 mile radius] see ANY ASPECT of hq staffers' lifestyles or activities. The innies are "secluded" from any eyewitness accounts of hypocrisy and abuse.
Imagine........SEEING YOUR "SPIRITUAL LEADERS" ABOUT ONCE EVERY TWO YEARS (in dallas, in a conference setting)????
At least churchgoers see their ministers once or twice a week (if not more). And, when involved in church activity, most would have daily contact with their spiritual leaders.
You are so right. Didn't figure that stuff out until recently.It just didn't penetrate my thick skull. They (RC's, LC's) are protecting their jobs OR they want to have enough people under them to be put on salary.
Right down the line: The Trunk speaks and the rest of the way tree is forced to carry it out.If classes ain't runnin heads roll and the blame gets put on the "hard hearted twig-ites"
It's always about outreach. Now Platig wants twig-ites to send outreach reports upwards via the chain of command so that he can "pray" with us (not in person of course)
Damn
Freshair, it's good to have you back! Your topics and posts get me all worked up.
The last few years I was "in" (I left in Fall 2001) we were encouraged to "get involved" in the community. In fact, this theme, of "getting involved" seemed to resurface every few years.
When I was a WOW in 1980-81, my 10th Corps family coordinator was telling someone in the community that he wanted to "get involved". The local asked him what he meant by "get involved", he just stared blankly back at her. -->
But, back to the more recent past: the people in our region were encouraged to get out and join groups, teams, etc. What we were not encouraged to do was actually make any friends. All this "getting involved" was for one purpose only: to get more recruits.
Oakspear
...goin' down to Rosedale, got my rider by my side...and I'm standin' at the crossroads...
Jain Convention -- can you elaborate on your post a little more -- are you speculating or???
Don't know for sure as I'm not WC or anything, but given that we seemed to get canned answers to questions (especially about the one time affair deal)seems to make sense. So you could say I'm speculating. But consider what one believer making 20,000 yr means to TWI. At 15% , thats $3000. (check my math - I'm an artiste not a scholar) Let's just say this is an average abundant squandering. As the headcount falls, each person to leave means $3000 less. If you worked in retail and lost 2 or 3 customers that spent 3 smackers a year, what would your management say? Its all about money and loyalty.
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ChattyKathy
Fresh,
Good to see you, we missed your fresh air insight.
Kathy
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mj412
Freshair
it was not just in ohio man.
I was far far away from headquaters, yet the same thing was happening to those around me.
It was a cult I say that in a sense of they taught everything that was not twi instilled was evil .
Ok live(if you must) but do not let that tainted world touch you or you will die.
most didnt live and I think women suffered most because many couldnt work outside the home , so the only exposure to people they had was twi fellowship.
Home school began to get popular , I mean all those devil spirits in public schools forcing evilness in the mind.
I think school was the only relief some of those kids got.
those who didnt get home schooled sometimes had individual thoughts as they grew older, the solution to that mighty sin was get them out of your house those rebellious unbelievers and many did just that or stopped being a parent to them .
the constant relocations as well those kids had no lasting childhood friends or memories , other believer kids was the only thing safe to play with .
cult
[This message was edited by mj412 on January 11, 2003 at 8:49.]
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Hope R.
Dear Lord, Fresh, I've missed you! Glad you're back...
Lately, when I think of TWI I think of Waco or Guyana. I don't think they're all going to kill themselves in Ohio or Gunnison, but the seclusion is becoming much like those other two groups.
That's why when QQ posted his thread about TWI predictions, mine was that they'll sell HQ's and move the whole operation to Gunnison. It's more secluded... easier to hide there than at HQ's - and it doesn't require as many people to run the place.
The other thing that secludes TWI people, even those who live in normal communities is the teaching to "be ye not unequally yoked with unbelievers". I heard that teaching the first year I was in TWI... one of those green retemories from the D/W/A class.
In 1995 at the last Rock - that's what LCM taught. It was titled "Living Sanctified" but was more like living in isolation, seclusion, withdrawal. Stay with the people who "do the word" who will "keep you sharp" in the household!
A quote from that class that I just happen to have is: "God will keep you protected if you stand in the household and get yourself in the sanctified category of living God's word. God can then bare His arm and protect you."
In other words, IF you stand in the household - THEN God will protect you.
The devilish teaching of the "household" evokes isolation and seclusion from the rest of the world.
It also teaches fear and disdain of anyone who has no TWI involvement - which leads to further seclusion.
It teaches ridicule of those who "don't know as much" and/or other religions - which takes away any temptation to seek them out - which keeps people under the thumb and in need of TWI's doctrines. More isolation and reclusiveness.
Great topic... one for the psychology and sociology books for sure...
And isn't seclusion part of the "cult mentality" we've all read about?
Hope R. color>size>face>
Life, what is it but a dream? - Lewis Carroll
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justwannabeme
Hope brought up the point about ridiculing people who don't know as much. I saw this big time, and even participated. It wasn't until later that I began to see Christians in other religions who manifested a lot more love and believing than anyone in TWI.
I saw signs, miracles and wonders following those who believe, not those affiliated with TWI.
While still in TWI, I became friends and a prayer partner with a co-worker. We prayed for a couple of things that came through like 3-D fireworks! Right there in the office we were hugging and crying and laughing as we both saw a prayer answered right there and then.
If I had told anyone in the fellowship about this wonderful situation, they would have frowned and questioned it's authenticity as being from the true God. Better to remain a cripple praying to God with the sanction of TWI than to pray with someone outside of TWI and get healed. No way could it have been genuine. And if it was, why wasn't I bringing this person to fellowship? (I would have thought, "And ruin them?")
There is no way you can ridicule someone and actually think you are loving them by speaking the Word. Did Jesus ridicule anyone? Did he have that superiority air about him?
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FreshAir 99
Kathy & Hope,
Thanks for your heartfelt welcome back. I've enjoyed my mini-vacation from twi-postings. Heck, I go whole weeks now without even thinking about their evil doings and abuse.
Hope, good points about sanctified teachings and twi's disdain for others. Clearly, they have an agenda.......one that ISOLATES "their" people from friends, family, co-workers, other Christians, and the evil world of unbelievers.
Systematically, twi draws individuals into their epicenter of seclusion. Once there, it becomes very difficult to break away from its "in-household honoring" and "way-worship."
Even in PFAL.....one was ambushed with "higher truth" and "living the mystery with twi mentality" apart from all other Christians. Again, ISOLATION was one of the major staples of vpw's agendas.
Is it any wonder that abuse of power ensued??? The system of seclusion........whether at hq, camp gunnison, lead outdoor academy, emporia, rome city, gartmore, or wherever.......will always bring darkness.
Power-filled Christians, as LIGHTS of the world, are to be "on display" for ALL THE WORLD TO SEE........not secluded in a dark dungeon of despair and devilish dealings.
Why should we be surprised that twi continues to spiral downward???
Fresh
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Eaglehouse
Good to see you back, Fresh,
About, the power twi stole....
As I was reading through my son's history book about American slavery, it said that originally,the slaves were indentured slaves, they were paid and then let go after an agreed amount of time. In the space of about 42 years, the servitude changed into enslavement.
So many times men start off on "semi-innocent" courses but when the power hungry become leaders
then the course of history follows. Pride, greed, and love of money....
Can't think about it too much, it still makes me mad, but so glad we have this forum (underground railroad) to get comfort. Love you all, EH
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ChattyKathy
This word seclusion is interesting. If indeed it is self-imposed for a period of strengthening oneself in your convictions, be it godly or morally, for a time being that could be helpful. But what twi has done is impose it on their way household to the end they are cut off from being able to function normally.
My son was a friend with a young lady born and raised at HQ. They were at the advanced class together and she shared her heart with him. Telling him she needed that class to help her avoid being kicked in the butt all the time by the adversary. She said having lived only on grounds was isolating to her and had left her helpless against the real world. And she felt her personal adversary was well aware of her weakness and regularly kicked her butt because of it.
They view it as safety, to pull back from the entanglements of the world. But they have pulled back from people?s hearts as well. Placing themselves on a higher plain of action and thoughts. Yet as we who have walked away can see clearly they have isolated themselves to the point of control and personal destruction. Their seclusion has aided in disengaging themselves from more than material things. It has caused them to actually disconnect from those who they say they are on earth to reach.
Kathy
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JainConvention
Did any of you ever feel resentful of "new people"
that still had outside friends and activities (i.e. A LIFE) and then did you get that feeling of exhileration (for lack of a better word) as they slowly started to reject former friends/family/activities as they got more and more involved with the wonderful household?
"I did" he says while mentally kicking himself in the butt.
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ChattyKathy
I felt jealous. On our interim year I was under such pressure that as I walked downtown to work each day (we only had one vehicle) and passed folks eating and laughing around me I would ache in my heart. I yearned for that.
Oh no I am already hogging his thread.
-->
Kathy
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FreshAir 99
Without seculsion, where would twi have gone??
Interesting.......vpw taught his classes live from 1953-1968. Those Ohio folk sat and listened......many of whom left, never to return.
THEN......PFAL was filmed and, step by step, the system of seclusion walked in.
* Sign up for the class -- make a commitment.
* Class separates believers from unbelievers.
* No questions would be tolerated during class.
* Quit reading all other secular material.
* Take other classes.....more isolation.
* Go WOW......leave family/college/home.
* Go WOW again.....establish your "growth."
* Take Adv Class...see life thru spiritual eyes.
* Go Way Corps.....leave all else behind.
* For many, work at hq......live in founders hall (uuugh).
So much more could be added to this short list.
Seclusion was the brain-child of vpw's "success." Physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually......it gave vpw a fixed audience and instant authority.
Seclusion is the cornerstone of tyranny.
Fresh
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Grizzy
Just my opinion, but while under VP it seemed like we were in an elite club, separate from society yet reaching out and also living within that society. We claimed to have an open book and offered all a chance to come and look in. Remember that there were no strangers at the Way? Seclusion was the norm and encouraged, yet not demanded and through the hurried schedules of twigs and classes it was mostly unavoidable.
But then came the mid to late 90's and it became the true household of God and we needed to be ever vigilant to stay with the present truth, we needed to prevail. Come out and be separate because evil and good can not occupy the same space; evil will always win out against good. There was no longer the disguise of reaching out and bringing the new into the fold, mandates demanded to find not those in need but those that were ready made. I.E. they were successful in their lives and have a lot to offer when they walked through the door.
No longer did the followers faithfully reach out to the world, they confronted the world and becoming involved with an unbeliever was considered sin and a waste of time. Had a person heard the Word and not sold out to TWI2 they were to be shaken off like dust and we were to move on! Some people were told to change jobs as they claimed to have witnessed to all fellow employees and no one came. But wait, they didn?t witness they confronted them about their unbelief and their idolatry.
Maybe seclusion does described TWI-1 and total isolation a better way to describe what TWI has become and there are no signs that is changing.
Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>
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NKresident
Dear Fresh and Hope,
I wonder if TWI is has changed its tactics since you left. Maybe GreaseSpot has forced them to rethink their anality!
In my opinion, there seems to be a big difference to the seclusion you describe and what is taking place in New Knoxville and the surrounding area.
For example, people from the way are active in the school district. They do everything from serve on the park board to coordinating cheerleading. their kids are involved in every sport and competition the school offers.
Once guy named Don Smith is even on local TV and gaining recognition as a reputable artist.
So, I'm not saying that your observations from the past are incorrect, but want to bring the current situation to your attention.
Do you think they are trying to be assimilated into the culture, or is this just another ploy? From what I can see, whenever they do one of their "open house" church services, many locals are showing up just to take a look.
Thanks for continuing to post and share your experiences. No matter what TWI is doing now, it is important that people never forget where they came from.
NKresident
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FreshAir 99
NKresident,
Thanks for your input on this thread.
As you describe the current situation there from twi staff......I wonder if this same situation applies for innies on the field.
Sometimes there is a vast difference between hq's public relation tactics and what is deemed acceptable commitment by corps and advanced class grads on the field.
Perhaps, as you mentioned.....twi HAS adjusted their past mode of operation to new methods. Wouldn't surprise me one bit. Especially now that they've stashed $47 million away.
Yeah, they might be comfortably sitting on a big NEST EGG today.....but it was nurtured from decades of deception and is rotten.
Fresh
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mj412
The way always had those special ones they trusted and knew wouldnt make a mistake as public relation experts.
Advertisment people with no real substance in them , they could be allowed with permission cause most liked them( or tolerated) and the leaders knew they had them under full control .
the folks NK talks about are the most scary and insiduous types like two faced bastards setting you up for the kill.
Not kidding I know that sounds harsh , I saw them and how they got that way .
It is caused DENIAL and playing mind games with themselves and the general public .
They did not take the hard stand for Gods word and his ministry of course not they were fine and dandy and normal living in a cult world they just were the bait.
Most had no clue who they were or what they thought in any genuine way , just proving to the world we are fine and let me tell they get kudos for it.
Most were fake people you know the ones with the constant smile and high pitched vioces?
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grasshopper
What nk says is true,however, they have created a (much) more defined division/chasm between leadership (inlcuding assistant TC's) and the rank and file. Saw this big time towards the end of my leadership stint. You are not to share many many more things now that are taught at leaders meetings and especially not to let down your guard when talking to people whose loyalty or spiritual maturity is in question (like me or my wife)
....hard to put this into words but I'm sure many know what I'm talking about. While on one hand they want to be perceived as more kind and loving they are even more guarded, suspicious and judgemental than ever. The conversations they have between themselves must be disgusting.
I'll try to think this through better it's real slimy stuff.
hopper
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smitty
Jeez, this thread almost has me crying as I remember the systematic taking apart of life as I had known it.One vivid memory was Christmas 1982 when Nancy was at Camp Gunnison and I was in Lakeland Fl I spent Christmas Eve in a downtown bar with cheap draft beer, Marlboros and complete strangers I didn't have any close friends or invites, and who wants to spend that special time with those other than family and close friends? Christmas morning was a bummer also. I didn't even attend the funerals of my dear Grandparents and uncles because I didn't have the money to travel, and I had to do the work of the ministry. I saw my parents once a year for a day or two as I passed through on my way to the ROA. to be isolated in a gd corn field for 2 weeks with Corps week and the Rock. I could go on,but I won't. I thought I was over this stuff, but I guess not It has been excellent therapy to read and ponder on these posts!
hal smith
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JainConvention
Grasshopper,
They are not just in CYA mode, they are in PYJ mode (Protect your job). If they trust the wrong peons, I mean believers or if they lose people due to telling them the truth, they (leadership) are out. I know that not all LC's know everything. TWI has simply lied about how 'big that fish was' too many times. IMO they can never recover from this, so they turn it into a spiritual maturity issue, etc.
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Hope R.
HAL!!!!
Gosh buddy... good to see you... I must have missed your other posts or was too stupid to realize it was you!
Not to derail the thread but...
I'm sure you were probably more set-apart because you were only a "Corps Spouse" - though John and I never thought of you in those terms.
Wish we had known about you being alone - you could have come over and hung out with us.
Love to Nancy, and the girls!!!
Hope R. color>size>face>
Life, what is it but a dream? - Lewis Carroll
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napkinlady
I believe NK resident has it right. TWI is now becoming involved with communities bigtime. However I do not believe for a minute that it is for any purpose other than outreach.
After all, anyone on staff must have oodles of free time now. There can't possibly be much to do. They can encourage people to commit to school activities because there are no classes running or special events going on.
They obviously have changed the old "witness to friends, family and co-workers" to witness to your community. And rather than going door-to-door (which didn't work) they now use group activities for good causes. That way people are already convinced that you have a good heart and are likeminded in wanted to help people.
Anyone in twi for any length of time have already tried to sell twi to all their friends, family and co-workers. The community is the only other place with new potential victims.
School activities are the easiest to encourage. And the easiest to rescind later on.
Napkinlady
Fold TWI, Fold!
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troubledwine
Jain Convention -- can you elaborate on your post a little more -- are you speculating or???
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FreshAir 99
Another aspect about seclusion.....
In today's twi, the innies rarely [especially those outside the 250 mile radius] see ANY ASPECT of hq staffers' lifestyles or activities. The innies are "secluded" from any eyewitness accounts of hypocrisy and abuse.
Imagine........SEEING YOUR "SPIRITUAL LEADERS" ABOUT ONCE EVERY TWO YEARS (in dallas, in a conference setting)????
At least churchgoers see their ministers once or twice a week (if not more). And, when involved in church activity, most would have daily contact with their spiritual leaders.
Twi's system is SECLUDED FROM INNIE SCRUTINY!!
Rampant hypocrisy was bound to occur.
Fresh
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grasshopper
You are so right. Didn't figure that stuff out until recently.It just didn't penetrate my thick skull. They (RC's, LC's) are protecting their jobs OR they want to have enough people under them to be put on salary.
Right down the line: The Trunk speaks and the rest of the way tree is forced to carry it out.If classes ain't runnin heads roll and the blame gets put on the "hard hearted twig-ites"
It's always about outreach. Now Platig wants twig-ites to send outreach reports upwards via the chain of command so that he can "pray" with us (not in person of course)
Damn
Freshair, it's good to have you back! Your topics and posts get me all worked up.
hopper
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Oakspear
The last few years I was "in" (I left in Fall 2001) we were encouraged to "get involved" in the community. In fact, this theme, of "getting involved" seemed to resurface every few years.
When I was a WOW in 1980-81, my 10th Corps family coordinator was telling someone in the community that he wanted to "get involved". The local asked him what he meant by "get involved", he just stared blankly back at her.
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But, back to the more recent past: the people in our region were encouraged to get out and join groups, teams, etc. What we were not encouraged to do was actually make any friends. All this "getting involved" was for one purpose only: to get more recruits.
Oakspear
...goin' down to Rosedale, got my rider by my side...and I'm standin' at the crossroads...
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JainConvention
Don't know for sure as I'm not WC or anything, but given that we seemed to get canned answers to questions (especially about the one time affair deal)seems to make sense. So you could say I'm speculating. But consider what one believer making 20,000 yr means to TWI. At 15% , thats $3000. (check my math - I'm an artiste not a scholar) Let's just say this is an average abundant squandering. As the headcount falls, each person to leave means $3000 less. If you worked in retail and lost 2 or 3 customers that spent 3 smackers a year, what would your management say? Its all about money and loyalty.
Leaders (LC's/BC's are considered management.
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I wish I were the Jain I know to be!
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