I suppose that you are correct. One thing that I really like about the Greasespot is that there are completely open forums to discuss virtually any issue that may aid in helping people recover from their TWI experiences.
I think that the best way for this to happen is to discuss things openly and honestly. That is why I bring up so much of my personal life, someone has to be willing to lay it on the line, so-to-speak.
With clingons it can be as harmless as the classic, "OMG, I sounded just like my dad/mom" or as insidious as, "OMG, I sounded just like my ex-limb leader." But either way I tend to classify behavior learned from being subjected to such things as clingon behavior.
For those bad TWI behaviors I like it best when I see someone who acted without thinking and then realized how and where which TWI leadership they learned the scummy/manipulative behavior from. Anything other reaction tends to fall into the "Wise in our own conceits" category IMO. I think there is a proverb that points out that the hope for salvation is dim for a fool who is wise in their own conceits.
I am most happy to have the opportunities to change.
Jeff, you are trying hard to overcome a difficult beginning compounded by a difficult adult life. Well done for recognizing where the errors lie!
We all have "relationship scars" and it does take honesty (firstly) to see what effect our behavior has on others; (secondly) to see what has conditioned any particular behavior and (thirdly) to do something about it. Habits can be very hard to break and require constant effort to overcome and to establish a new habit/behavior.
As you say, a word from a friend about some less than lovely behavior is worth much. That's what "speaking the truth in love" is about. It is not about pointing out the ...sawdust... in others' eyes whilst peering through the plank in one's own eyes. And it definitely isn't being picky or overly critical or nagging.
You are a neat and tender-hearted man, and if you can teach your son to say "sorry" promptly you will help him not perpetuate errors - those taught by you, or by his mother (asnd by extension, the splinter group leader). Help him to recognize egregious behavior and to distinguish it from the fake "meekness" peddled by TWI/offshoots.
Thank you for the feedback Twinky, that was pretty cool, or perhaps It would be better said as very nice
I read your post yesterday and since then I've realised that what I try to do is recognize where certsain behaviors come from but still take responsibility myself. But it's not such a neat little picture when a person is still kind of broken up. Thinking about these things can be very tiring sometimes for me.
I'm just hoping that the discussion might be a blessing to someone I guess.
In my experience, you cannot fix what is broken if you don't at least recognize that it IS broken. So, the fact that you even realize something you've said or done is a remnant of your past (bad) lives is HUGE in my book!
Beyond that, I also agree that it is easier to fix if you can understand where the behavior (or thought) came from and why you used it. That's the starting point and if you understand that, you can change things.
Do I still have "clingons"? Oh yeah... I hope I have less today than I had last week, but I doubt I will ever stop rooting out the crap that became the very fabric of my daily life for 20 years.
It sounds like you think there is still a lot of work to do. I hope things are cool with you in the mean time.
______________________
I hope this thread doesn't strike anyone like some kind of self help project. I think we all need friends, God's grace, and patience to even work on it. And I won't hold anything against those who hold to only friends and patience here at the Greasespot either.
But if this thread strikes anyone as simply pointing out how messed up someone feels, then a (((hug))) may be a better remedy, or a friend whose ears work, or a few deep breaths.
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excathedra
i think many people were/are "deceived" in one way or another
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JeffSjo
Dear Excathedra,
I suppose that you are correct. One thing that I really like about the Greasespot is that there are completely open forums to discuss virtually any issue that may aid in helping people recover from their TWI experiences.
I think that the best way for this to happen is to discuss things openly and honestly. That is why I bring up so much of my personal life, someone has to be willing to lay it on the line, so-to-speak.
With clingons it can be as harmless as the classic, "OMG, I sounded just like my dad/mom" or as insidious as, "OMG, I sounded just like my ex-limb leader." But either way I tend to classify behavior learned from being subjected to such things as clingon behavior.
For those bad TWI behaviors I like it best when I see someone who acted without thinking and then realized how and where which TWI leadership they learned the scummy/manipulative behavior from. Anything other reaction tends to fall into the "Wise in our own conceits" category IMO. I think there is a proverb that points out that the hope for salvation is dim for a fool who is wise in their own conceits.
I am most happy to have the opportunities to change.
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Twinky
Jeff, you are trying hard to overcome a difficult beginning compounded by a difficult adult life. Well done for recognizing where the errors lie!
We all have "relationship scars" and it does take honesty (firstly) to see what effect our behavior has on others; (secondly) to see what has conditioned any particular behavior and (thirdly) to do something about it. Habits can be very hard to break and require constant effort to overcome and to establish a new habit/behavior.
As you say, a word from a friend about some less than lovely behavior is worth much. That's what "speaking the truth in love" is about. It is not about pointing out the ...sawdust... in others' eyes whilst peering through the plank in one's own eyes. And it definitely isn't being picky or overly critical or nagging.
You are a neat and tender-hearted man, and if you can teach your son to say "sorry" promptly you will help him not perpetuate errors - those taught by you, or by his mother (asnd by extension, the splinter group leader). Help him to recognize egregious behavior and to distinguish it from the fake "meekness" peddled by TWI/offshoots.
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JeffSjo
Thank you for the feedback Twinky, that was pretty cool, or perhaps It would be better said as very nice
I read your post yesterday and since then I've realised that what I try to do is recognize where certsain behaviors come from but still take responsibility myself. But it's not such a neat little picture when a person is still kind of broken up. Thinking about these things can be very tiring sometimes for me.
I'm just hoping that the discussion might be a blessing to someone I guess.
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TheHighWay
Jeff,
In my experience, you cannot fix what is broken if you don't at least recognize that it IS broken. So, the fact that you even realize something you've said or done is a remnant of your past (bad) lives is HUGE in my book!
Beyond that, I also agree that it is easier to fix if you can understand where the behavior (or thought) came from and why you used it. That's the starting point and if you understand that, you can change things.
Do I still have "clingons"? Oh yeah... I hope I have less today than I had last week, but I doubt I will ever stop rooting out the crap that became the very fabric of my daily life for 20 years.
THW
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JeffSjo
Dear THW,
It sounds like you think there is still a lot of work to do. I hope things are cool with you in the mean time.
______________________
I hope this thread doesn't strike anyone like some kind of self help project. I think we all need friends, God's grace, and patience to even work on it. And I won't hold anything against those who hold to only friends and patience here at the Greasespot either.
But if this thread strikes anyone as simply pointing out how messed up someone feels, then a (((hug))) may be a better remedy, or a friend whose ears work, or a few deep breaths.
Take Care and God Bless!
(edited for spelling)
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