Pop Christianity

[What The Hey]

The 1970's were an excting time as the previous decade before it was frought with moral decay. In the midst of it one sensed a genuine devotion to God's Word and a desire for understanding it, a sincere desire to serve the Lord - a renewed sense of holiness. There was a rise in evangelism while new bible translations and study aids gained in popularity as well as small-group bible studies. It was a time of birth and spritual revival - or so it seemed.

Yet the 1980's was a decade that saw a steady decline - not necessarilly numerically but spiritually. Today there is the tendancy to make one's faith something other than what is stated in the Word of God. Experiences, emotions, fashions and opinions are many times more authoritative to people than the bible for determining what a Christian should and ought to believe. Our culture is filled with mega-churches, youth rallies and college kids wearing Jesus T-shirts - but where is the depth, the power, the mystery and the grace that represents the sacred? When these are removed all that remains is a commercialized self-indulgence with a "Jesus" spin to it.

Authentic Christianity has lost it's flavor for most, mainly because it is too costly to persue. Not necessarily in terms of dollars, but in time. In place of the small-group bible study and biblical study aids of the 70's we now see on the shelf all the self-help, positive thinking, Christian diet and Christian financial planning among the "Our Best Life Now" books. American Christianity has created a sub-culture that looks no different from mainstream culture except that there are no cuss words in the music, no sex scenes in the movies, and God’s name has to be said at least once every other paragraph no matter what…even if it is about something God would never want his name mentioned with. This “Pop” Christian culture seems to teach that God has the same values and priorities as the American Dream. God wants, above all, for Christians to be successful in the world’s eyes, happy, wealthy and influential. You know the scripture, III John - verse 2.

For many this was also the "gospel" according to TWI. Yes, we've all heard the gospel of: "POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING".

But what does the gospel of real Christianity look like and feel like to you?

[Ham]

The 1970's were an excting time as the previous decade before it was frought with moral decay.

I don't know how much I agree.. I would modify the former statement. Perhaps the sixties were fraught with moral decay, not too much unlike generations and other decades past.

With America's development of television, no nook or cranny of moral decay seemed to remain as safe and excluded as it once did.. developments in technology in the forties and fifties brought battles in Vietnam, scenes of protest in every street, and the like to the living room of "everday" "normal" Americans, and others who had the capacity to view the same images.

I'll have to think about the rest of your post..

[waysider]

but where is the depth, the power, the mystery and the grace that represents the sacred?

Sounds like a paraphrased line, straight out of session #1.

[Ham]

The more I think about it.. the more I have issues with the sixties reference..

it's almost like.. you've manufactured a "problem" and "solution" in one line..

drugs? They have been a "problem" since.. who knows when.. before lsd, there was a lot of "stuff" they used for divination and such..

if it wasn't for tv, and the nightly news, Leary wouldn't have had anywhere near the following that he did..

well.. it's just a thought.

The media could have just have let sleeping dogs lie.. but NOOOO.. the very icon of "rebellion" (in many people's eyes) has followers and such splashed on the nightly news at 7pm..

So was it a time fraught with moral decay? I don't think so.. I think it was blown far out of proportion..

Promiscuity? How about a time.. when a "lady" dresses herself up as a prostitute.. and "does business" with her father in law..?

and it was during a time, far far before the sixties..

Just a few thoughts.

[Ham]

maybe my point is.. "don't pick on the sixties".

they may have been days of being "screwed up".. but not "unparalleled" in human history or anything..

I was just a little too young at the time..

Edited April 8, 2009 by Ham

[Ham]

But what does the gospel of real Christianity look like and feel like to you?

How about.. "do no harm" ?

that's the thought that keeps coming to me..

the "strange" thing.. it seems to be a reoccuring theme in many beliefs.. few seem to live up to it that I've observed..

[potato]

the only thing that made the 60s and 70s different from, say, the 20s and 30s or any other set of decades with "moral decay" followed by "renewed sense of holiness" was accessibility to the total package of telephone, film, audio recordings, publishing, and reliable postal delivery.

[Ham]

well, yes. along with a nightly commentary, at 7pm.

[Ham]

but where is the depth, the power, the mystery and the grace that represents the sacred? When these are removed all that remains is a commercialized self-indulgence with a "Jesus" spin to it.

perhaps in your eyes.. spirituality is only in the eye of the beholder..

just another thought..

:)

[Jim]

I'd like to reply, but I'm too tired and I still have lots to do tonight. Instead, why don't you read Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate.

You've committed about half of them.

[What The Hey]

To avoid further confusion, perhaps it would be appropriate to define exactly what "Pop" Christianity consists of. Pop Christianity is said to be a version of Christianity made popular by select "celebrities". It is filled with lingo and phrases such as: "seven-fold annoiting", "latter day revival" and other such "buzz" words. These are just some examples of the phrases that have become the popular staple of modern-day 21st century Christian believers.

It's no surprize to many that TWI had it's own unique "lingo" and Christian buzz phrases as well. So, was TWI a phenominal player in establishing "Pop" Christianity? When we talk of "Pop" music, we are talking about a type of music that appeals to all types of personalities and certain celebrities that often "stand-out". Is it possible there are still people today seeking "Christian teachers" who have a very unique lingo that helps them satisfy their own desire for a newer version of Christianity - that is, in order to make them stand out from the rest?

By sound doctrine or true Christianity I am talking about doctrines and aspects of Christianity that doesn't come out of the mind of a man or woman who just happens to say, "the spirit has revealed unto me" or "the spirit gave me this revelation" - and other such lingo. For the Word of God to be true it can't simply come out of the mind of any man or woman. When Jesus Christ taught his disciples as well as the masses, he went directly to the Word of God and he used the scriptures to explain his purpose for coming into the world. But as the scriptures reveal there would come a time when people would grow intolerant of sound doctrine and the subjects of scripture, and then to suit their own desires they would head fables. The reason they would turn from sound doctrine unto fables is because their own desires would begin to rule their lives. When our desires rule our lives, then we begin asking for another form of teaching. (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

I think we are at a place in Christianity today where most of us have been forced into this "desire driven" Christianity. Notice in 2 Timothy it says they would be come irritated with the Word of God. There was an irritation as it says their ears were "itching", and they became intolerant of sound doctrine as sound doctrine does not minister to our desires. What sound doctrine ministers to is our understanding and our faith in Christ alone and in his purposes. It says they would be turned unto myth and fables. That is just another way of saying the predominant message people would want to hear would be a message that caters to their own desires, and not to the truth of God and His Word and His will. Yes there is a version of Christianity today that often references the bible, but it has no real roots in the Word of God.

So here is the question I am posing. Have we become a Christian culture that has grown intolerant of sound doctrine? That is, that we no longer have a desire or hunger to hear the Word of God itself but would rather hear teachings that cater mainly to our fleshly, selfish desires; such as our desire to become "purpose-driven" Christians? By "pop Christianity" I am talking about messages that are designed and mainly focus on the desires of people such as the "prosperity gospel", rather than the gospel and the person of Jesus Christ. The gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is clearly the person of the Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed to be the Son of God as the full payment for our sin by his death and burial, and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ as our triumph into new life. I believe that is the true gospel and what constitutes true Christianity.

So simply put, do you hear the majority of Christians today talking about growing in Christ, or do you hear them talking more about their own desires?

[mstar1]

So simply put, do you hear the majority of Christians today talking about growing in Christ, or do you hear them talking more about their own desires?

Let me say first I am not a fully paid up dues paying church going Christian, I tired of what you call pop or american christianity a long time ago which to me had about as much depth and substance as a shamwow commercial.

The question you posed is sort of sticky, I still hear christians from time to time talking about their growing in christ but that doesnt mean it is not their own desire that they are talking about. To some iit seems like some badge of honor or proof that they are 'growing" if they 'talk' about it-jabber jabber jabber on--and my only thought is -- let me out of here.

Ive heard all the talk , I know all the scriptures-I dont need to be banged over the head with them anymore.

If Im impressed at all its with what people DO, their actions, and their service which speak much louder than words.

[waysider]

What I have "become intolerant of" are thinly disguised, paraphrased regurgitations of PFAL.

Edited April 8, 2009 by waysider

[Tzaia]

So here is the question I am posing. Have we become a Christian culture that has grown intolerant of sound doctrine? That is, that we no longer have a desire or hunger to hear the Word of God itself but would rather hear teachings that cater mainly to our fleshly, selfish desires; such as our desire to become "purpose-driven" Christians? By "pop Christianity" I am talking about messages that are designed and mainly focus on the desires of people such as the "prosperity gospel", rather than the gospel and the person of Jesus Christ. The gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is clearly the person of the Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed to be the Son of God as the full payment for our sin by his death and burial, and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ as our triumph into new life. I believe that is the true gospel and what constitutes true Christianity.

So simply put, do you hear the majority of Christians today talking about growing in Christ, or do you hear them talking more about their own desires?

I hear them talking about growing in Christ.

But let's talk a bit about "sound doctrine." Jesus was utterly convinced that the new age was near, which created this urgency to get our lives in order to be able to experience this new age. It was also obvious by the time that the 4 gospels were written that he wasn't right about that.

In Jesus' lifetime and soon afterward, was ok to live a hand to mouth existence because that wasn't going to last very long, but unfortunately, it's lasted people's entire lifetime for many generations.

So the Christian is stuck in the middle of the notion that they could experience the new life at some point in their earthly lifetime, while statistically speaking, it probably won't happen. I believe the low probability has given rise to the prosperity doctrine. I don't think it's such a bad thing.

Is it "right" doctrine? Not technically. But in the scheme of things, I think leading people to believe that physical adultery isn't wrong has greater consequences on society at large than telling people that God wants them to prosper.

[socks]

Very interesting topic, WTH. For background, I don't know enough about or have a real feel for how the mass of Christianity in America views their faith, doctrines, etc. today to really offer a fully informed opinion. But that's never stopped me before.

I do see on TV a lot of the televangelists who deal mostly with the physical "abundance" message - in that regard I actually do think there's a need for people to understand that God is not the author of death, sickness or poverty. Yet, the idea that all death, sickness and poverty can be overcome through one's focused prayer life and/or a believing attitude isn't true according to the Bible either. The true victory, abundance and success of the Christian is a spiritually based one that spans more than this current lifetime. To focus on things, "stuff" as the indicators of a true Christian life is counter productive, based on what we see in the New Testament. (along the lines of what Tzaia posted earlier)

In my own circles, there's an emphasis on wanting to know and understand God's will for people, personally. How to have a full relationship with God and Jesus Christ. Knowing how best to live in these current days we live in, our times and circumstances.

Desires - a good point. As we develop our lives as Christians, it's assumed that the focus of our lives and desires should take on the character of a child of God. I see a combination of both the written words of the Bible and the inspiration and direction that one would expect as an outcome of a real relationship with God. Of the people I know closely, both ex-Wayfers and never-been, that's the focus. Of course, no one's perfect or necessarily consistent, so there's variation and growth all the time.

[WordWolf]

To avoid further confusion, perhaps it would be appropriate to define exactly what "Pop" Christianity consists of. Pop Christianity is said to be a version of Christianity made popular by select "celebrities". It is filled with lingo and phrases such as: "seven-fold annoiting", "latter day revival" and other such "buzz" words. These are just some examples of the phrases that have become the popular staple of modern-day 21st century Christian believers.

It's no surprize to many that TWI had it's own unique "lingo" and Christian buzz phrases as well. So, was TWI a phenominal player in establishing "Pop" Christianity? When we talk of "Pop" music, we are talking about a type of music that appeals to all types of personalities and certain celebrities that often "stand-out". Is it possible there are still people today seeking "Christian teachers" who have a very unique lingo that helps them satisfy their own desire for a newer version of Christianity - that is, in order to make them stand out from the rest?

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/Ron-Parks-Min...ur-Christianity

"Pop Christianity can be said to be 'a version of Christianity made popular by either select personalities or demands of the masses', which has cultivated its own Christian teachings, Christian practices and even Christian lingo. 'It's Time For Your Destiny!', 'Your Season Has Come!', 'The Seven-fold Anointing', 'The Latter Day Revival', and so many like phrases have become the language of many 21st century Christians. But are they just buzz-words or phrases that have no real root and meaning in Christ-centered Christianity?"

[johnj]

There is a lot of superficial, pop Christianiy out there. But the reason we see it is because by its nature it likes to be noticed (like the Pharisees Jesus mentioned praying aloud on street corners). Superficiality likes to be noticed because that's as far as it goes.

But there are also a whole lot of Christians out there with a very deep faith, who live closely according to Christ's teachings even though it costs them, who truly love God and love their neighbors as themselves. But you don't notice them because by their nature they are humble, not attention-geetting, not superifcial. Some of them wear Christian T-shirts and others don't. I've met a lot of them in church, because they tend to gravitate to Christian fellowship and Bible teaching and worship and service. It's in their nature to be in the Body of Chrost, receiving and giving.

Offhand, I could name you a few, like Barbara and Barbara and Mary and Taylor... but of course, you wouldn't know their names.