Tricks with treats

[Dot Matrix]

My question, going in over a year ago, is what is a counterfeit and help me avoid them (paraphrased)

I have been talking to a bunch of people who have been ripped to shreds in "relationships" I thought I could help them with their broken hearts...

I think God had me talk to all those people, yes to help them, but to help me.

It was the same story with different people repeated to me.

Why?

Because there are tares among the wheat. The teaching our "pastor" gave on this was the first I ever heard a tare looks just like a wheat. I thought it was an obvious weed - but a tare looks just like wheat until you open the pod and the pod is empty.

Is an atheist a tare? (Not meant to offend them here but as a Bible believer it is IN the book so it makes its way into what I am writing. This is not to turn into a defense of the atheist position) Is a regular old unbeliever a tare?

I do not believe so because they do NOT look exactly like wheat. They usually tell us they do not believe in God and have no qualms about it. It is pretty obvious that a man holding a knife a screaming does not mean you well. Or a man/woman who says, "I am not interested" that they just are not interested...

But the smiling face of someone who tells you they love Jesus. And as you knock yourself out doing all you can for our lord, they tell you it is not enough, or mark and avoid you etc. They leave you crumpled on the floor wondering about yourself... Or about this loving God who does not FEEL so loving after encountering THAT believer...

They look like us but something is just not right. Not visible at first meeting, perhaps.

So, I had to survey the landscape of my own failures. And I am very easily impressed by the charismatic, gregarious, "says all the right things" kind of person. I become addicted to how they make me feel –

Much more to type but you get the picture and this is a corporate question not a personal one.

The sociopath. Science calls them sociopaths. It is my contention that God calls these people, the charming “Christian” sociopath, a tare, false prophet and wolf in sheep’s’ clothing.

I know not to fellowship with darkness. I know to give an alter call and wipe the dust off my feet when someone continues to drag out their reasons for not believing, I know not to get linked to a pagan, but I get tricked with the rest.

I believe the rest are sociopaths PRETENDING to be what we want to "get us", so who they are is not readily seen, then change into their real identity once they "have you" to destroy you. (In a minor application the woman who pretends to like sports, tons of sex, and does not mind loud burps at the table - then once married actually hates it all and complains. Now, amplify that behavior to crushing a person who just wanted to love God.)

In my quest I found this to be informative. It is not the beginning and end all. It is not an authority and it does not have all the answers. I found it helpful. And slightly altered it can also show men the evil WOMEN who are sociopaths

http://www.takebackyourheart.com/

So, this is a time I am learning and layers of understanding are being applied as layers of blindness depart for me.

But the CORPORATE discussion on this thread is I believe there is a vast difference from the tare, false prophet and wolf in sheep's clothing compared to the unbeliever, the atheist, the pagan and the people who just do not believe the way a Christian does. I think there is a distinction. Different groups we are advised to look at for-

And to me this has been the big one- the people who pretend to be us. Maybe start an international ministry from a farm, using another person's legitimate research as bait to hide the hook. So, the bait IS real and tastes great because it is real food. Just TWI never was the "cook" of that food.

Bait and switch in TWI

In marriages

In friend relationships

The sociopath or people using sociopathic behavior, I think we are warned of them with the verbiage of wolf in sheep's clothing, tare, and false prophet. I think the warning is different from not to marry a pagan and the like. Pagans, atheist, etc, tell you where they stand, this is different. I just always read past the difference like, "yeah, yeah, avoid people who do not believe..." That is NOT what it is saying at all.

I hope I worded this correctly.

What do you think?

Edited March 29, 2009 by Dot Matrix

[brideofjc]

Well said, Dot.

Tares are just that....they do look just like the real wheat until the harvest comes....then....nothing there.

I'm unfortunately still being crushed by a lot of so-called Christians who are (I believe) jealous of the ministry that the Lord has given to me, want to make a dollar off of it and I won't let them, want to control it (because after all a man makes a better leader ) and I won't let them do that either. Still picking myself up off that floor, feeling as if my faith sometimes has been tested to its very limits of endurance.

It is easy to recognize that open blatant evil, but it is very difficult when the cloak of Christianity is covering the unrepentant heart. And Dot, unfortunately, its not just those that live on a farm in OH that are into that either. They are in the local churches as well, all over the world, right down the street from you and I.

Thanks for the link to the page, its kind of scary to think that so much of us probably can relate to something in that article.

[Dot Matrix]

Yes, many local churches and many people woven among us to kill us off and take our power. Thanks Bride

[Dot Matrix]

God is warning us about the people who "look like us"

He calls us sheep. Jesus was the lamb.

Then, he says beware of wolves in sheep's clothing. People hiding among us who look and act like us but ARE NOT.

The tare looks just like the wheat but has "no heart" they are empty and zap the life of the wheat as they grow side by side.

The FALSE prophet is still getting "revelation" (albeit from the "other" source) and performs miracles and casts out devils. But line it up next to the REAL prophets -

Looks very much LIKE the real.... Yet Jesus sends them away saying he did not know them. And it seems right up the end they try and deceive --- they try to bluff their way into heaven by declaring they have done all these things in his name....

The other stuff (regular ol' unbelievers) is easy to spot, this group not at all. I think God is warning us about what we call the sociopath. He (the sociopath) does pretend to be what others are - to fit in and cause harm.

Edited March 30, 2009 by Dot Matrix

[Twinky]

This is an interesting discussion - but if you are saying that "tares" look pretty much like "wheat" (rather than looking just like some other weed, a thistle, say) - what are you saying the tares are (botanically - your pastor seems to know!)?

I've always taken this parable just as an example - even in a domestic setting, a gardener can sow seeds and then weed seeds blow in and grow amongst the desirable plants - depending on how they're sown, a gardener won't necessarily remove the weed seeds straight away because to do so may disturb the roots of the desirable plants. When the desirable plants have got a little bigger, then the weed seeds may be removed without risk of uprooting or selecting by mistake the desirable plants.

In an agricultural setting (and that's what Palestine was, in those days) a farmer doesn't usually spend the time going along the rows of wheat and wheat-like crops, weeding. But the desirable crop, being taller, may well shade out the weeds.

Like all parables - beware of taking it too far.

[TrustAndObey]

what are you saying the tares are (botanically - your pastor seems to know!)?

The best I can find:

According to wikipedia:

Tare - Ryegrass (Lolium) is a genus of nine species of tufted grasses, family Poaceae.

Lolium temulentum

It usually grows in the same production zones as wheat and is considered a weed. The similarity between these two plants is so extensive that in some regions cockle is referred to as "false wheat." It bears a close resemblance to wheat until the ear appears. The ears on the real wheat are so heavy that it makes the entire plant droop downward, but the "false wheat", whose ears are light, stands up straight. It parasites wheat fields. The French word for darnel is "ivraie" (from Latin "ebriacus"), which expresses that weed's characteristic of making one feel poisoned with drunkenness.

[Twinky]

Yes, T&O, I saw that, but I also saw this:

"Ryegrass (Lolium) is a genus of nine species of tufted grasses, family Poaceae. Also called tares (even though there is no firm evidence that this is the same as the plant given that name in English language translations of the Bible - vetches are another candidate), these plants are native to Europe, Asia and northern Africa, but are widely cultivated and naturalised elsewhere. Ryegrasses are naturally diploid, with 2n = 14, and are closely related to the fescues Festuca."

(underlining mine)

I'm not sure, from the parable, whether even the weed needs to resemble the crop. Just removal of the weed has potential to damage the crop. But if the weed is a "look alike" it does make the parable stronger.

[brideofjc]

That's why we are told that we will know the real Christian by the fruit that they produce. However, I realize that sometimes, even the REAL Christian goes through periods of unproductivity and times of trials where they may not appear to be at their best. I guess this why the angels are going to gather out the tares first at the time of judgment and then the REAL Christians will appear as they truly are. Blessed of the Lord.

[Dot Matrix]

The pastor said the tare looks like us -- is all around us and we do not notice them as they look like wheat.

I had previously thought they looked like weeds.

I think the look exactly like us "false wheat" is VERY very telling. Like God used symbolism that would stand through the ages because words like "sociopath" were not yet available.

I find it remarkable. So, therefore I remarked. ;) smile...

[Dot Matrix]

T and O

The False wheat

OMG -- They do POISON us and when "drunk" nobody sees correctly! Or you can be addicted to the drunk feeling. Everything God has for us is so big --- even the strength of this parable. Huge!!!

[pond]

That is the perfect title

tricks with treats.

Dot I think I know exactly what your speaking about.

This man I know everyone calls "bible man" preacher etc.

he often speaks of the hope of the return and God etc.

he is a nice man kind .

and I was wondering why many many folks do nt want him anywhere near them at certain work sites and he has benn outcast many times .

He claims it is persecution because of his standing in christ.

now almost a year later I have seen why and it AINT that but he does in fact use that to get out of the mess he makes with co-workers.

he is a tricky guy with treats, he will tell the boss to forgive them and he isnt upset at anyone and no problem and do extra work for someone, when they complain about him .

I didnt get it I mean he appeared so nice and hard working....

and he often tell his woes in life and shares intimate details of everything that is going on in his life . marriage car problems money everything like he is your best friend.

then I saw it he considers everyone his best friend you know and loves everyone and loves God. tries to get information from me and the most i give is I have a fat cat. but it is hard to not engage with him .

I saw a woman scream at the boss she will NOT have him sub for her when she is out or ELES! his work is better than most.

i saw it the angry mean words on more than one occasion about his friends at work.

but you know we all vent sometimes.

then he assumed I must want him and consider him a friend and I told him no your not your a co-worker.

soemthing in my gut told me this was not right he was up to something ... cant find the words to pin point what im saying.

and then he will up the cost and do alot of my work and come to me and ask again and again i told him no .

NOW I know he is trashing me to the boss. and checking my work to find errors all the while telling me my work is perfect and he wants to help.

the boos loves him and I mean loves him my boss is very lazy and if he can get any info without leaving his chair even if it isnt accurate he is happy and my boss got his job by demotion several times.

to me he is a tare.

[Dot Matrix]

Sounds Like it Pond!!!