Because I wanted to know more about God, the creator of the universe.
Had had a conventional upbringing, sent to church (C of E), to chapel (Methodist), rebelled iin early teens because I couldn't see what it was all about. It didn't seem alive or interesting, just a load of oldies standing up and sitting down and singing a few songs. It was all very formulaic and didn't touch my heart one bit. I did do some confirmation classes with the vicar, which were quite interesting, but the whole churchy thing was too boring.
Years later and still searching. I would wander into churches from time to time. Nice people, sometimes nice songs, but nothing that really grabbed my heart.
Many years later and I had decided to read the Bible from start to finish. I read Acts and was amazed and astonished, and really wanted to know what had happened to the power of God that those people knew and lived by. Where had it gone? Why wasn't it around now? And I wanted to learn Greek to get more out of it than just the English words. I knew I was missing a lot in the translation.
Some time later, I was in an intensely stressful job with a horrible manipulative boss. He was clever, but mean. I met a WoW, who was clever and lovely. He had answers and showed me in the Bible all sorts of things, and he always had an answer. I was interested in what he said, and in him. I believe God spoke to me and said that life could be either this way, or that. I could use my own intellect and abilities and become mean like my boss; or I could go the other way and be kind and helpful to others. It was my choice. (There is, of course, a little more to it than that, but that's the essence.)
I wasn't interested in the class that the believers kept pushing and trying to sell to me. Eventually I did take the class because this great bloke that had witnessed to me, was getting a lot of pressure put upon him by some interim Corps. I still didn't like the class but took up the "read the epistles for the next three months" challenge and that really decided me. Of course, I'd be reading it faultily, through PFAL-colored glasses, but then, I'd never read the epistles before.
There was a knowledge, intensity and passion about the believers (WoWs) that was not to be found in any church I'd been in. They were great and lived a life in acknowledgment of God. Some of them went into the Corps and I loved being around them. (Later, other mere "twiggies," ended up hurting me horribly.) The class, though I didn't enjoy it, had taught me more about the Bible than anything else I have ever heard. It just made sense. And I wanted to carry on getting to know God better, know more about him.
Of course, if the church actually taught something, really taught, went through scriptures like PFAL did, then I wouldn't have fallen prey to the abusive organisation of TWI.
The vicar at my current church once said, "If the churches did their job, people wouldn't get sucked into cults." He's right.
And of all my current church's housegroup, about a third have come from some closed or cultic background, and about half of the house group have suffered abuse within their churches. Even the rest said they didn't learn much in their original church - hence we comprise Methodists, Baptists, C of E, RC, independent churches, and some from cults, in this thriving and very laid back church. Which really strives to know God and to educate those of the congregation who want to know.
You wouldn't recognise the church as belonging to any particular denomination. No formal liturgy, no robes, no standard procedures though all fall within a range. People like to leave time to listen to God and not push him out by doing things by rote.
Thanks, Mark. I feel God really wanted me to be a part of this church. I felt like I had "come home" at the first service there. It was very soothing. I would attend and listen to the sermon, and tears of joy and blessing would leak from my eyes, couldn't stop it. The church has been very healing.
The housegroup is a bit strange, after TWI, with everyone saying, "I think this means..." but they are all deeply thoughtful and have been Christians for a long time. Each is on his or her own walk with God. The comment, "I think this means..." speaks as much to where they are on their on walk with God, as to underlying meanings.
Nobody knew my background when I was assigned/offered this housegroup (as opposed to any of the others running within the church set-up). But I do think it was the best place for me to be. One woman there says she can see how much calmer and more peaceful I am. I asked her what she meant, and she said, when I first started going, they (she) wondered what was going to come out of my mouth. Gosh, and I thought I was keeping my mouth shut and trying to keep a lid on TWI dogma!
Interesting stuff Tzaia, thanks for mentioning this thread on your authentic self thread.
Some things I've thought about from all this:
TWI had a P.T. Barnum appeal – supposedly having something for everyone.
Regarding "Rewards vary in kind, value, and generality", I think there was something about the TWI mindset that eclipsed a follower's sense of rewards, values, purpose, personal preferences, etc., whereby followers adopted a new value system.
TWI's "intellectual" appeal was effective only to the extent followers embraced the organization's intellectual standards – which imho stacked up poorly against your average Joe's brainpower living in the real world. To paraphrase a commercial slogan for a clothing store – "A smart consumer is TWI's worst customer."
The rewards of TWI involvement are geared toward deepening the follower's involvement with the organization.
If I may elaborate on your statement, "The only person who wasn't tied into this system of rewards was the founder and his immediate posse. He set himself up as this all-knowing guy and got a fair amount of people convinced that he was the one with all the information necessary to get the special rewards that weren't available to the mainstream Christian." In a way vp & company were tied to this reward system in that every follower who strived for these rewards - be it more power, recognition, whatever – served to validate the kingdom of the big dogs.
Howard Gardner's book "Changing Minds" talks about the different aspects of our thought process – sort of like gateways – or maybe investigators to check out an issue. The TWI mindset tended to short circuit the gateways – granting a free pass [acceptance] to an idea, under the pretext that it's spiritual. The mindset justifies irrational choices "cuz ya can't go by yer 5 senses, dontcha know. We're in a spiritual battle, dummy. Keep it spiritual stupid."
Bait & switch is a mainstay of TWI! Whatever the initial appeal appears to be, followers eventually find themselves knee deep in an artificial world – a life-sucking fantasy. And it's NOT their fantasy – it's vp's.
Recommended Posts
Twinky
Why did I buy it?
Because I wanted to know more about God, the creator of the universe.
Had had a conventional upbringing, sent to church (C of E), to chapel (Methodist), rebelled iin early teens because I couldn't see what it was all about. It didn't seem alive or interesting, just a load of oldies standing up and sitting down and singing a few songs. It was all very formulaic and didn't touch my heart one bit. I did do some confirmation classes with the vicar, which were quite interesting, but the whole churchy thing was too boring.
Years later and still searching. I would wander into churches from time to time. Nice people, sometimes nice songs, but nothing that really grabbed my heart.
Many years later and I had decided to read the Bible from start to finish. I read Acts and was amazed and astonished, and really wanted to know what had happened to the power of God that those people knew and lived by. Where had it gone? Why wasn't it around now? And I wanted to learn Greek to get more out of it than just the English words. I knew I was missing a lot in the translation.
Some time later, I was in an intensely stressful job with a horrible manipulative boss. He was clever, but mean. I met a WoW, who was clever and lovely. He had answers and showed me in the Bible all sorts of things, and he always had an answer. I was interested in what he said, and in him. I believe God spoke to me and said that life could be either this way, or that. I could use my own intellect and abilities and become mean like my boss; or I could go the other way and be kind and helpful to others. It was my choice. (There is, of course, a little more to it than that, but that's the essence.)
I wasn't interested in the class that the believers kept pushing and trying to sell to me. Eventually I did take the class because this great bloke that had witnessed to me, was getting a lot of pressure put upon him by some interim Corps. I still didn't like the class but took up the "read the epistles for the next three months" challenge and that really decided me. Of course, I'd be reading it faultily, through PFAL-colored glasses, but then, I'd never read the epistles before.
There was a knowledge, intensity and passion about the believers (WoWs) that was not to be found in any church I'd been in. They were great and lived a life in acknowledgment of God. Some of them went into the Corps and I loved being around them. (Later, other mere "twiggies," ended up hurting me horribly.) The class, though I didn't enjoy it, had taught me more about the Bible than anything else I have ever heard. It just made sense. And I wanted to carry on getting to know God better, know more about him.
Of course, if the church actually taught something, really taught, went through scriptures like PFAL did, then I wouldn't have fallen prey to the abusive organisation of TWI.
The vicar at my current church once said, "If the churches did their job, people wouldn't get sucked into cults." He's right.
And of all my current church's housegroup, about a third have come from some closed or cultic background, and about half of the house group have suffered abuse within their churches. Even the rest said they didn't learn much in their original church - hence we comprise Methodists, Baptists, C of E, RC, independent churches, and some from cults, in this thriving and very laid back church. Which really strives to know God and to educate those of the congregation who want to know.
You wouldn't recognise the church as belonging to any particular denomination. No formal liturgy, no robes, no standard procedures though all fall within a range. People like to leave time to listen to God and not push him out by doing things by rote.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Clarke
Twinky,
You are very fortunate to have found such a house group. That's the way it's supposed to be, IMO. Too bad there aren't more of them around.
Edited by Mark ClarkeLink to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Thanks, Mark. I feel God really wanted me to be a part of this church. I felt like I had "come home" at the first service there. It was very soothing. I would attend and listen to the sermon, and tears of joy and blessing would leak from my eyes, couldn't stop it. The church has been very healing.
The housegroup is a bit strange, after TWI, with everyone saying, "I think this means..." but they are all deeply thoughtful and have been Christians for a long time. Each is on his or her own walk with God. The comment, "I think this means..." speaks as much to where they are on their on walk with God, as to underlying meanings.
Nobody knew my background when I was assigned/offered this housegroup (as opposed to any of the others running within the church set-up). But I do think it was the best place for me to be. One woman there says she can see how much calmer and more peaceful I am. I asked her what she meant, and she said, when I first started going, they (she) wondered what was going to come out of my mouth. Gosh, and I thought I was keeping my mouth shut and trying to keep a lid on TWI dogma!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Interesting stuff Tzaia, thanks for mentioning this thread on your authentic self thread.
Some things I've thought about from all this:
TWI had a P.T. Barnum appeal – supposedly having something for everyone.
Regarding "Rewards vary in kind, value, and generality", I think there was something about the TWI mindset that eclipsed a follower's sense of rewards, values, purpose, personal preferences, etc., whereby followers adopted a new value system.
TWI's "intellectual" appeal was effective only to the extent followers embraced the organization's intellectual standards – which imho stacked up poorly against your average Joe's brainpower living in the real world. To paraphrase a commercial slogan for a clothing store – "A smart consumer is TWI's worst customer."
The rewards of TWI involvement are geared toward deepening the follower's involvement with the organization.
If I may elaborate on your statement, "The only person who wasn't tied into this system of rewards was the founder and his immediate posse. He set himself up as this all-knowing guy and got a fair amount of people convinced that he was the one with all the information necessary to get the special rewards that weren't available to the mainstream Christian." In a way vp & company were tied to this reward system in that every follower who strived for these rewards - be it more power, recognition, whatever – served to validate the kingdom of the big dogs.
Howard Gardner's book "Changing Minds" talks about the different aspects of our thought process – sort of like gateways – or maybe investigators to check out an issue. The TWI mindset tended to short circuit the gateways – granting a free pass [acceptance] to an idea, under the pretext that it's spiritual. The mindset justifies irrational choices "cuz ya can't go by yer 5 senses, dontcha know. We're in a spiritual battle, dummy. Keep it spiritual stupid."
Bait & switch is a mainstay of TWI! Whatever the initial appeal appears to be, followers eventually find themselves knee deep in an artificial world – a life-sucking fantasy. And it's NOT their fantasy – it's vp's.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.