TWI believed this most likely because her true occupation too closely reflected what he was doing to the women in his ministry. I believe it is called avoidance.
Besides which, she alone had the faith to believe that these foreigners' God would keep her safe according to their word. Kudos to her, no wonder she ended up in the ancestral lineage for the Lord Jesus Christ. Plus, women didn't often get mentioned in the Bible so the fact that she ends up being mentioned by name is even more impressive IMO.
AVOIDANCE..... Yes, I think that is what Wierwille did Bride. It was a cover-up and a complete compromise and adulteration of the scriptures. It looks like Wierwille intended to avoid the following points.......
In James 2:25 and Hebrews 11:31 the word for "harlot" is "porne" in the greek. My Young's defines it as- one sold, a seller, fornicator. Even with only my Youngs concordance to work from I can see that this particular greek word shares at least a common root with our word "pornography."
In Joshua 2:1 and 6: 17, 22, & 25 Rahab is called a harlot, and in my Young's concordance the word in these OT scriptures is "zanah" which is defined- to commit fornication, go a whoring.
Even with a brief look it seems obvious that Wierwille lied about Rahab the harlot actually being an innkeeper. I remember how Wierwille sounded when he lied about this to us. And to be perfectly honest, he sounded exactly like he did any other time when he took authority to tell us what the truth was.
_______________________________________
Wierwille also taught us that the OT law did not apply to us too. This was another lie, check this out.
Leviticus 19:29 (KJV)
Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore[zanah in the Hebrew again]; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.
Well according to what I can tell not only does this scrpiture apply to us, it according to God's Word described what happened to The Way International. It doesn't seem so easy to deny the law when the consequences for breaking the law have been fulfilled right before our very eyes in our lifetime. THE WAY INTERNATIONAL BECAME FULL OF WHOREDOM AND WICKEDNESS. I.....think.....it.....applies.....DUH!
I also love how this commandment addresses the men in charge of the young women. Of course young women can be lied to, manipulated, or forced into prostitution. So it is obvious to me that those who blame TWI young women for what they were led into do not see it as God sees it. The men in charge will be held accountable. I HATE THE BLAME THE VICTIM LIE, especially as it takes away compasssion for the victims in our mind.
__________________________________
Matthew 1:5,6
And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab [Rahab]; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
And Jesse begat David the king;
So after Rahab the Harlot watched God destroy the city that most likely forced her into prostitution she married a man of Judah named Salmon. And in so doing she became Ruth's mother-in-law (see the book of Ruth) and David's great-grandmother.
Seeing this great salvation for Rahab I understand why it pains me to think of the things that TWI sexual abuse victims must overcome. But I root for each and every single one of them to find faith that brings out the "virtuous woman" inside of every one of them.
Husbands if they wish......DAM STRAIGHT.
Children too...... F_ckin right.
Clear conscience.....of course.
Give them grief..... well imagine how Joshua and Caleb must have thought of Rahab. Maybe you give them grief at your own peril!?
This may be something that requires another thread, but where in the bible does it say that prostitution or even premarital sex (considering that harlots generally didn't marry back then) is sinful behavior? The reason I'm asking is because it's entirely possible that being a harlot wasn't considered to be as immoral back then as it is today. We all assume that it is sinful, but I don't know of anywhere in the bible declaring it to be sinful.
This may be something that requires another thread, but where in the bible does it say that prostitution or even premarital sex (considering that harlots generally didn't marry back then) is sinful behavior? The reason I'm asking is because it's entirely possible that being a harlot wasn't considered to be as immoral back then as it is today. We all assume that it is sinful, but I don't know of anywhere in the bible declaring it to be sinful.
P-Mosh, you're right that that requires another thread; please will you start one? It's a good topic for discussion. It could get lengthy.
Jeff, what you've said is something that rankles with me, too.
Was Rahab a sort of brothel-keeper, a prostitute who'd made it to "madam"? Maybe; aren't "western" movies often depicting of hostelries with girls attached (or maybe the other way around)? Also, people with something to hide (spies?) often stay in cheap and sleazy surroundings (brothels?), where "nobody tells." Rahab had her own "house" with access to the outdoors (at least the roof); she wasn't imprisoned. Bullinger says the word "harlot" is used in its "usual sense."
Maybe she had been forced into prostitution, as you suggest. But perhaps not by her family, who she wanted to be saved also (Joshua 2:13, 6:23,25).
Whatever, she certainly didn't like her cultural surroundings very much. A traitor to her own tribe, city. Why would she want to do that? She didn't do it for the money. She wanted safety, rescue from them. Rescue from sexual degradation?
Perhaps she and her family were "foreigners" who had lived in the city for a while but weren't totally accepted.
She would be an interesting "skeleton in the closet" - an ex-prostitute made good and elevated in the invaders' eyes. How people'd see her would depend very much on their viewpoint! What God thinks is pretty significant - as BoJ says, one of few named women in the Bible.
In that day, if you lost your virginity (for any reason) your chances of marriage were almost null and void, unless your father found a very old widower who didn't mind. However, since it appears she believed these strangers who came to her and understood that very possibly she was going to die right alongside those in the city, sounds to me she was a very practical woman who understood which side her bread was buttered on in more ways than one. It could be also, that she already knew somewhat about the Hebrew God and had heard of His fame bringing His people out of Egypt, the destruction of Pharoh's army et al, and knew this was not a God to be trifled with. Since it would appear (according to these strangers) that their God had set this city for destruction, voila! She made a choice to live...... sounds s-m-a-r-t- to me!
I do not know too many specifics either. Some of the things you wonder about may be, or may not be I guess. Certainly interesting considerations.
The Canaanite cities apparently had a long, well deserved reputation for various debaucheries. the female forms that they used to worship and that they used in their temples seem to make it plain to me the kind of things that any harlot would be exposded to in such a city. Along with my decades of just being around I guess.
I have a hard time imagining her having faith in her case if in her heart she didn't recognize God's justice coming to Jericho. Personally if TWI sexual abuse victims were comforted by that specific point I would be happy.
But I don't believe that after Rahab joined Israel that her past rated as anything like a skeloten in the closet. At one point Joshua just refers to her a "the harlot" when giving instructions publically. It may only reveal how I think, but since God saved her and it seems reasonable that the two spies who she kept safe wouldn't let anyone give her any grief. And like I stated before, I suspect that Joshua and Caleb themselves must have thought that she was an amazing woman for what she did for the spies, and at the time in Israel those two were the very last ones that anyone would want to anger I think. But human nature being what it is I'm certain that she had to prove herself too, but the scriptures just give us the end result and IMO it is very freakin impressive!!!
Dear Bride,
Smart, yes certainly. She recognized what Israel was expected to do to Jericho as justice IMO. Smart, and she must have been amazing to recognize that alone I think.
Dear Cman,
What you shared about others thinking that about Rahab doesn't surprise me at all. Neither does the recollection that Dr. claimed to understand this from the texts alone without any reference to reading it anywhere else.
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brideofjc
TWI believed this most likely because her true occupation too closely reflected what he was doing to the women in his ministry. I believe it is called avoidance.
Besides which, she alone had the faith to believe that these foreigners' God would keep her safe according to their word. Kudos to her, no wonder she ended up in the ancestral lineage for the Lord Jesus Christ. Plus, women didn't often get mentioned in the Bible so the fact that she ends up being mentioned by name is even more impressive IMO.
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JeffSjo
AVOIDANCE..... Yes, I think that is what Wierwille did Bride. It was a cover-up and a complete compromise and adulteration of the scriptures. It looks like Wierwille intended to avoid the following points.......
In James 2:25 and Hebrews 11:31 the word for "harlot" is "porne" in the greek. My Young's defines it as- one sold, a seller, fornicator. Even with only my Youngs concordance to work from I can see that this particular greek word shares at least a common root with our word "pornography."
In Joshua 2:1 and 6: 17, 22, & 25 Rahab is called a harlot, and in my Young's concordance the word in these OT scriptures is "zanah" which is defined- to commit fornication, go a whoring.
Even with a brief look it seems obvious that Wierwille lied about Rahab the harlot actually being an innkeeper. I remember how Wierwille sounded when he lied about this to us. And to be perfectly honest, he sounded exactly like he did any other time when he took authority to tell us what the truth was.
_______________________________________
Wierwille also taught us that the OT law did not apply to us too. This was another lie, check this out.
Leviticus 19:29 (KJV)
Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore[zanah in the Hebrew again]; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.
Well according to what I can tell not only does this scrpiture apply to us, it according to God's Word described what happened to The Way International. It doesn't seem so easy to deny the law when the consequences for breaking the law have been fulfilled right before our very eyes in our lifetime. THE WAY INTERNATIONAL BECAME FULL OF WHOREDOM AND WICKEDNESS. I.....think.....it.....applies.....DUH!
I also love how this commandment addresses the men in charge of the young women. Of course young women can be lied to, manipulated, or forced into prostitution. So it is obvious to me that those who blame TWI young women for what they were led into do not see it as God sees it. The men in charge will be held accountable. I HATE THE BLAME THE VICTIM LIE, especially as it takes away compasssion for the victims in our mind.
__________________________________
Matthew 1:5,6
And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab [Rahab]; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
And Jesse begat David the king;
So after Rahab the Harlot watched God destroy the city that most likely forced her into prostitution she married a man of Judah named Salmon. And in so doing she became Ruth's mother-in-law (see the book of Ruth) and David's great-grandmother.
Seeing this great salvation for Rahab I understand why it pains me to think of the things that TWI sexual abuse victims must overcome. But I root for each and every single one of them to find faith that brings out the "virtuous woman" inside of every one of them.
Husbands if they wish......DAM STRAIGHT.
Children too...... F_ckin right.
Clear conscience.....of course.
Give them grief..... well imagine how Joshua and Caleb must have thought of Rahab. Maybe you give them grief at your own peril!?
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Mister P-Mosh
This may be something that requires another thread, but where in the bible does it say that prostitution or even premarital sex (considering that harlots generally didn't marry back then) is sinful behavior? The reason I'm asking is because it's entirely possible that being a harlot wasn't considered to be as immoral back then as it is today. We all assume that it is sinful, but I don't know of anywhere in the bible declaring it to be sinful.
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Twinky
P-Mosh, you're right that that requires another thread; please will you start one? It's a good topic for discussion. It could get lengthy.
Jeff, what you've said is something that rankles with me, too.
Was Rahab a sort of brothel-keeper, a prostitute who'd made it to "madam"? Maybe; aren't "western" movies often depicting of hostelries with girls attached (or maybe the other way around)? Also, people with something to hide (spies?) often stay in cheap and sleazy surroundings (brothels?), where "nobody tells." Rahab had her own "house" with access to the outdoors (at least the roof); she wasn't imprisoned. Bullinger says the word "harlot" is used in its "usual sense."
Maybe she had been forced into prostitution, as you suggest. But perhaps not by her family, who she wanted to be saved also (Joshua 2:13, 6:23,25).
Whatever, she certainly didn't like her cultural surroundings very much. A traitor to her own tribe, city. Why would she want to do that? She didn't do it for the money. She wanted safety, rescue from them. Rescue from sexual degradation?
Perhaps she and her family were "foreigners" who had lived in the city for a while but weren't totally accepted.
She would be an interesting "skeleton in the closet" - an ex-prostitute made good and elevated in the invaders' eyes. How people'd see her would depend very much on their viewpoint! What God thinks is pretty significant - as BoJ says, one of few named women in the Bible.
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brideofjc
In that day, if you lost your virginity (for any reason) your chances of marriage were almost null and void, unless your father found a very old widower who didn't mind. However, since it appears she believed these strangers who came to her and understood that very possibly she was going to die right alongside those in the city, sounds to me she was a very practical woman who understood which side her bread was buttered on in more ways than one. It could be also, that she already knew somewhat about the Hebrew God and had heard of His fame bringing His people out of Egypt, the destruction of Pharoh's army et al, and knew this was not a God to be trifled with. Since it would appear (according to these strangers) that their God had set this city for destruction, voila! She made a choice to live...... sounds s-m-a-r-t- to me!
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cman
Wierwille wasn't the only one who thought she was an innkeeper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahab
An interesting article. With some history.
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JeffSjo
Dear Twinky,
I do not know too many specifics either. Some of the things you wonder about may be, or may not be I guess. Certainly interesting considerations.
The Canaanite cities apparently had a long, well deserved reputation for various debaucheries. the female forms that they used to worship and that they used in their temples seem to make it plain to me the kind of things that any harlot would be exposded to in such a city. Along with my decades of just being around I guess.
I have a hard time imagining her having faith in her case if in her heart she didn't recognize God's justice coming to Jericho. Personally if TWI sexual abuse victims were comforted by that specific point I would be happy.
But I don't believe that after Rahab joined Israel that her past rated as anything like a skeloten in the closet. At one point Joshua just refers to her a "the harlot" when giving instructions publically. It may only reveal how I think, but since God saved her and it seems reasonable that the two spies who she kept safe wouldn't let anyone give her any grief. And like I stated before, I suspect that Joshua and Caleb themselves must have thought that she was an amazing woman for what she did for the spies, and at the time in Israel those two were the very last ones that anyone would want to anger I think. But human nature being what it is I'm certain that she had to prove herself too, but the scriptures just give us the end result and IMO it is very freakin impressive!!!
Dear Bride,
Smart, yes certainly. She recognized what Israel was expected to do to Jericho as justice IMO. Smart, and she must have been amazing to recognize that alone I think.
Dear Cman,
What you shared about others thinking that about Rahab doesn't surprise me at all. Neither does the recollection that Dr. claimed to understand this from the texts alone without any reference to reading it anywhere else.
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