Glad that you are here...don`t worry about what people here
think...we have a multiplicity of opinions and experiences here.
I am glad that you have the choice to stay and stand up for yourself...lol many of us were thrown out, and m&a `d for far less.
I know some here whom were lied about and slandered because they refused the *blessings* that the Man of God proffered.
They never had the chance to stand up and defend themselves, to tell their side...simply were just escorted off grounds between armed security men.
They found when returning to their areas that ALL of the believers had been notified of their suspiscious spiritual darkness, and were warned not to speak to them less they become possessed as well.
I hope that you are right, that things are changing for the better....however, keep in mind....that those in charge now, those whom you are willing to entrust your spiritual life to...backed lcm in all of his lunacy to the HILT and in many cases actively participated in the cover up.
Lol...hang on it is bound to be a bumpy ride as you hear the side of the story you never knew...
It will be a rough ride....but well worth the trip.
You are not alone, there are other posters here that are still *in* that we very much love and respect.
We are not innie bashers...lol but keep in mind, many here have suffered atrocities that are unimaginable at leaderships hands.
Many here HAVE found meaningfull fellowship and growth outside of twi, so don`t be upset if all do not share your enthusiasm for twi`s *truths* anymore lol.
Seriously, glad you decided to *check* us out....don`t be afraid to jump right in the forums and mix it up a bit!
If you hgaven`t checked out the main page yet, there is a lot of usefull, eye opening information.
I am very aware that many have been hurt very badly by leadership. I am very sympathetic also. I've experienced LCM's BS in the dining room many times. I also understand your feelings on those who are now in charge and had backed LCM's actions after knowing about it for awhile (or long time--who knows?) I don't trust my life to them anymore; I used to put that much trust in them. I think we all understand we are responsible for ourselves. I'm not exactly sure how I feel about RFR; I didn't have the opportunity to talk to her much; she wasn't always one who was accessible. She's rather non-talkative, so it's hard to see where she's at. I felt this way even while on Staff. I do have to say that I really love Harve Platig and John Reynolds; I had many interactions with them, and I do not believe they are evil or men with bad intentions. I truly believe they work with pure hearts and love people.
Umm, Wayferlooking, I'm hearing some conflicting messages.
I'm not trying to be snide or accusing.
If it's the best thing going, then how come you can't trust your heart to them?
If it's the best thing going, then how come they have that micro-management run-your-schedule-past-your-hfc thing going?
If it's the best thing going, then how come the leadership from the top down to the LC level and even below have all become hard hearted?
And I'm sure you can come up with more questions like that on your own.
Are you really so sure that it's the best thing going?
Even if their doctrine were 100% sound - and I believe that I understand their doctrine, being a PFAL Advanced Class grad - is that reallllly the kind of people that you want to fellowship with?
And what if some of the posters here are right, that their doctrines have fundamental flaws? Research Geek was in the research department. He's got a top 10 list of how TWI misses the boat.
And wasn't fellowship always supposed to be so sweet, that even if we got to heaven, and it wasn't there, we had the greatest time going?
If you are really happy with your fellowship, then far be it from me to criticize. I say, God bless you, and more power to you!
But your very own posts say that you don't have that koinoneo, that full sharing.
I don't mean to sound as if I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. I haven't decided to leave because of fear. There I admit it. I just don't know what to do. I hear it's not necessarily a bed of roses outside either. I believe the BOD know that people don't trust their hearts to the leadership because of the past happenings. Like I said before, I have seen the hearts of HP and JR, and I believe they are pure-hearted. I don't necessarily feel that way about ALL leadership. I don't believe all Way leadership is hard-hearted, and I don't believe they have pure sound doctrine. I belive the bit about the original sin WAP is bulls*it. I believe the BOD see that and will take it off the agenda. I know that there was a Dept. coord. at HQ who left and hurt a lot of people in their oversight. That person contacted RFR and was required to make amends and apologize to those hurt by that person before they could come to HQ. I think that was a right decision. People should apologize for their wrongs to others. Those are the kinds of things that get held on to in people's minds.
I haven't seen on are REGULAR basis the micro-management things. I have seen a lot of it drop by the way side. My FC was new, and still very influenced by LCM traits. The micro-mangement thing hasn't come up since. Plus, no one has to submit to that. They only do if they allow it. I determined when I was on Staff that I would not be subject to micro-management. LCM should have been the one being micro-managed. That FC is no longer a FC. To me, that indicates that leadership is watching what's going on. That FC went to the LC about my refusals to submit to itineraries and involving them in decision making. The LC told the FC that it was ridiculous to expect those kinds of things out of people.
If I hear you right, you believe that ALL (without exception) of the leadershp are hard-hearted. I don't think so. If I see not so desirable people, I steer clear of them. That's the beauty of it. We don't have to be friends and lovey dovey to someone just because they are in the household. I'm probably not going to like everyone (like my old FC), and if I don't I get out of those situations. It doesn't happen often.
I just can't imagine going ot church to pray to Jesus. I went to church with my sister a few months ago, and I liked it, but I am very adamant about not praying to Jesus. It's been ingrained in me for 20 years, and I believe what I've been taught about the Trinity. What do you have going that you think it better? I'd like to hear. I'm always willing to consider things or I wouldn't be at GS.
That is very encouraging to hear about John and Harve, maybe they will be able to turn things around. I really hope so, for all of the folks whom remain there.
I can however say, that it will be a difficult process, because having read from the many people who have worked with their (John n Harv`s)boss through the years....she is a real snake.
She is responsible for the most onerous and controlling mandates in twi, even when lcm was in charge.
She appears to be very adept at manipulating from behind the scenes, and has been doing so for many years, even BEFORE her presidency.
With RR in charge, I doubt any serious changes can/will be made.
Anyway, I am glad that you are here, I am glad that there are some in twi, with some guts left, folks that are still able to stand up to leadership over things that were never any of their business anyway.
A word of caution, I hope you will remain discrete in revealing personal details about yourself, your state, or your fellowship.
This sight IS monitered, and usually when leadership pin points who you are, they attempt to make life miserable. Folks busted here have been labled possessed, and thrown out more than once.
If you aren`t ready to leave....please be carefull.
Lol...we were posting at the same time wayfer....I`d like to reply about being *outside*
Sure it is tough out here at first, you are in a major process of rediscovering who you are...what is real...what is of value....is God mad....where should I be now..have I wasted my life up to this point...lol
Growth and change isn`t always easy, but highly worth the effort.
If you talk to anybody here, once they have been out a while, and seen the greatness of God working in their life...free from the constraints of anal leadership, and missapplication of some really wierd doctrines....as tough as it got at times out here...they would NEVER go back to twi.
Churches get a bad rap from twi....they don`t ALL pray to jesus, lol...even those that do, have areas that they have Godly longsuits in....somethings understood and operated even better than twi...
Belief in prayer, great ministries in healing...great outreaches to communties...ministering to anyone in need...taking God to the prisons....all Godly persuits and part of balanced spiritual health.
But how are folks gonna recieve any of that, or apreciate their value if they are convinced before they ever walk through the doors that they already have all the answeres and that the churches are ignorant at best and evil at worst?
Let me tell you something, not ONE of the many churches that I have attended (whether they prayed to Jesus or not ;-) in ALL the years since leaving.....have EVER treated its followers as vilely as twi.
Very few of them were coercing the pretty young women into *servicing the Man of God* as part of their spiritual *duties* either lol
Sometimes I wonder if twi is so focused on the *word*, that it misses a great majority of the OTHER important details of a spiritual walk with God.....
That is the blessing of getting out wafer, imo you get the pleasure of developing an even richer more diversified relationship with God, and your bretheren.
Not that I am saying that you or anyone else, cannot enjoy yourselves while involved with twi.....I just wanted to correct the idea that life outside of the walls of zion cannot be exhilerating and spirit filled as well, (even more so than when in sometimes) .........
I`m not here to bash twi, I`m just anxious to correct the misperception (is that a word?) that someone has to stay with twi even when they are miserable.....simply because *there just isn`t anything better*
Think about *who* told you that and why they might say it....
I'm an "innie" who desparately wants to be free from TWI regardless of the "doctrine" they teach. They certainly don't live anything they teach and to me that means they may as well not be teaching. They were great for me and my life at one time, but they aren't meeting my needs anymore and I get the feeling that anything they change or do now is just to hold onto my money. There isn't really any agape love in that place. It's dark and dead and people are just going through the motions. My family is convinced that there is nothing better out there, but you know what? We haven't looked and they WON'T look! The last time any of us went to a "church" other than to appease a distant family member all we did was nitpick. Sure, you can find anything to complain about if you look hard enough. But I would bet that we could find a lot of things better than TWI in in those same churches. Heck, if nothing else, there's enough people to volunteer for things so that you aren't always stuck having to "serve" at every freaking thing.
You said, "People need to learn that they should do only what they are convinced they need to be doing. No one tells me what to do anymore, and I'm not considered a heretic in TWI. The way you live life is manifested by the fruit you produce--good or not. That should be evidence enough of someone's heart. "
That's asking an awful lot of people who don't even realize that they don't have to do what leadership tells them. (Remember, "suggestion from leadership is tantamount to a command"?) No one tells you what to do RIGHT NOW, but it will come back to that. RFR is the instigator of all that legalism. She just let LCM take the credit for it and is backing off for a bit. The upper echelons of WC have to kiss her a** to keep their paychecks and lofty lifestyles. They WILL enforce her rules when she makes them again.
You mention fruit in our lives. We were blinded to see the rotten fruit for years, don't you think? What kind of fruit do you see now? How many people are coming to TWI? How many WD are there going out? How many people continue to stick around? What kind of lives do you see in the leadership around you? Why do you think JR is sick and resigned? What did you think about his letter that RFR read at the anniversary service? Did you see any subtext in that?
I'm not attacking you. I'm very glad that you're here and that you are brave enough to post and ask questions and look around. I think you'll start to see more and more that TWI is not what you think it is. You've already started. It can be really hard to face up to and please know that there are many people here who will help you. So many people who have been through what we're going through. I've spent many a night crying and posting or reading here. It's a rude awakening to say the least, but it does get better and it feels good to know the truth about what TWI is all about.
Really, it's good to see you here! I recommend the cinnamon rolls (if you ask nicely they'll put extra icing on them!)
(all apologies to the post length enforcer - i'll refrain from posting much more today to make up for the space i've taken up here)
Hey, lookin, that was quite a well thought out response.
And, umm, I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to corner you, or to accuse you of talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Sometimes we aren't totally aware of the words we speak (or post). Sometimes we don't even really know our own feelings until and unless someone says, "Hey, didja realize that . . .".
Yes, you are correct, I cannot say that ALL leadership are hard hearted. But the core of leadership is.
I personally do not attend any sort of fellowship or church, not currently. But there are a lot of posters here that attend varying services. And we have a poster that is a pastor of a Presbyterian church! His handle is Plotinus.
There are those that will swear by the TWI off-shoots. My feeling is: they are all TWI "lite".
Some really like the Joyce Meyer ministries, because she sounds as if she could be a PFAL grad.
Have you thought that perhaps you think that TWI is the "best thing going" is because they are always telling you that? (now THAT'S a tongue twister!)
Do you think that God is so powerless, so ineffectual, that He would limit Himself to one small "ministry" of fewer than 4,000 people? Somehow, that doesn't sound right to me.
I too had the prejudice against churches...all the years of twi teaching that anything other than twi is a whited sepulchre. twi promoted the hard hearted attitude and I unthinkingly bought into it...that is until I was teaching in England for a few months. One of the requirements for the program I was doing was to do a community service project. I "somehow" stumbled into working with a Church of England church and an Episcople(sp?) church who were trying to unite the two churches into one community of worship.
The Church of England minister had a heart for people, the likes of which I had never seen before and have rarely seen since. The other minister was very picky about keeping the letter of the law...even to questioning whether to give communion to me one sunday. The CofE minister leaned over to her and said "go ahead, this girl is ok"
I made it a point to spend as much time with him as I could...we had lunch, went out for coffee, and sat in his church office and talked for hours.
After seeing how wonderful he was, I decided to rid myself of the hard-hearted prejudice against churches. Noone has the corner on the household, and until the return of Christ, noone ever will.
[This message was edited by chinson on October 22, 2002 at 8:45.]
[This message was edited by chinson on October 22, 2002 at 8:48.]
Just hang in there. Just like the posters said above, you will be surprised all the Word and love that's out there. (God is closer than your deepest breathe and you don't need a man in-between to interpret his love to your heart).
We were at HQ for many years, during LCM's reign and fall. Finding G.S. was a way for me to see opinions expressed that were totally unspeakable at HQ. Then I was finally able to formulate my inner passions once the fear had subsided.
I'm sure we crossed paths many times and I'm so thankful for your honest post and pure heart to let God lead you in the right direction.
You are in God's Household regardless of where you hang your coat. Don't get caught up in their thinking of "We're just like the first century church", (which was a "pillar of truth" for me). Just know we love you whatever you decide to do and don't feel guilty for your quest for inner joy. Love, EH
I relate to you in a very particular way. I graduated from the 13th corps on July 6th '85 and started my staff position on July 13th '85. I was there until the day after roa 1994 (count them...9 whole years.) When I left hq for the first time in 9 years, I took a position on the field in the same town as the limb which at that time was B__ * D_____ M______. It was a fabulous and freeing experience and I was very, very happy. I had known B&D for years at hq and had worked with them almost daily on staff, moving to be with them was the best of both worlds to me at that time.
I knew in my heart and had plenty of reason to know in my mind that things at hq (and especially lcm) were screwed up but life in my little corner of the world with B&D was delightful. The more time I spent actually away from hq, working out in the world, meeting "real" people the more I began to realize that my life at hq had been a mirage.
In May of 1995 when lcm made the annoucement that all corps on the field were going to be full time twi staff I totally freaked out. NO WAY was I going to take my paycheck from lcm again and hand him back the reigns to my life...that I was just regaining. I was one of those that just couldn't do it....on September 1 the day we were all supposed to be full time....I went back to my job (that I had quit) and asked them to take me back...I haven't really looked back since. In March of 1998 I moved to a new state,on December 1 of 1999 I called my limb guy and told him I was outta there after 28 years of being in twi.
Wayferlooking, it is a new path that you are on. It may be painful at times as you begin the process of REALLY sorting out who you are, what you believe, what you think, how you FEEL which is gonna be a whole new experience for you. Learning to feel and analyze and explore, it has been the most fulfilling part for me. Have I found what I was looking for? I don't know, do I even know what I was looking for...am looking for, I don't know yet. Each day is a new way to experience life as I learn to deal with it without the twi colored lens.
The biggest part of my own healing was Waydale and then Greasespot. I was able to spill my guts and learn from others how they were dealing with their own paths of discovery. I couldn't have done it without many of the posters that are still here at gspot, it was having the understanding of other twi "survivors" that made it possible for me to begin to make some sense of everything.
Go with God Wayferlooking, it is gonna be a really cool ride from here on out!
If you need anything, let me know....my email is in my profile.
I?m glad to hear that you aren?t letting leadership tell you how to run your life. You?re a better person that I was. I pretty much did whatever they told me. I?m sure we must know each other if you were on staff at all from 1992-1999 when I was at HQ. It sounds like you are probably not Way Corps, and that can make a difference on your perspective. I was in TWI for 25 years, since 1976. I was Way Corps from 1988 - 1998.
I loved the fellowship on the field that I was attending before I left. Loved the people. But I couldn?t honestly continue to support The Way anymore because I disagreed with what I was seeing going on. I had a list of about six or seven fundamental policies and practices that I felt were wrong. (I haven?t really delved into the doctrinal side or felt I needed to yet ? I felt that there was enough bad stuff being practiced to make up my mind that I had to go.) As a result I felt it was what I had to do ? leave the fellowship. (Since then the TC?s and their assistants have left the ministry too!) I would have felt hypocritical attending Fellowship but refusing to abundantly share and harbor ill feelings toward many of the top leadership. I couldn't live like that. I?m either all or nothing with that decision so I just cut the ties.
Since leaving I have felt a lot more blessed. And so has my family. We don?t attend a church and I doubt that I will ever be involved in any organized religious group. My wife and I teach our kids at home. This is one of the biggest issues to resolve that I?ve seen and have heard others voice the same concern. I do miss the fellowship of other believers. However, about ten of us ex-twi people get together about once a month and have parties and cookouts.
I find many people, co-workers, neighbors, friends, etc. who treat me better and with more love and respect than ?household? believers did. I could never go back to The Way. I refuse to allow myself to be treated the way I have been treated and seen others treated. I don?t understand how someone can support an organization that has never apologized to so many people that they have knowingly hurt. But that?s for you to decide. You need to do what you feel you need to do, but for God?s sake don?t stay because you?re afraid! God is still God even outside of The Way. If anything, I?ve seen how much bigger God?s power and love is since leaving the narrow definition propounded by The Way. God works in the hearts and lives of MANY people! People who are not in The Way and have not even heard about The Way. God is big. He will be there for you. But don?t just stay because of fear! We have friends who just recently made the decision to cut their ties with The Way and they now understand what we?ve been telling them for the past number of months. Things are falling into place for them now faster than ever. The right job came along, the house situation got resolved, they are more blessed.
I made the break from TWI in my mind when I finally decided to quit ignoring what my conscience was telling me and think for myself! I figure that The Way had 25 years to make their point and I just wasn?t getting it. I couldn?t reconcile what I saw being taught with how I saw people getting treated. If that?s godliness then I don?t want any part of it. I?ll go to hell before I would treat people like that. I got tired of ?putting things on my spiritual shelf? in hopes that one day I would be spiritual enough to ?understand? the actions of Way International leadership.
I read Greasespot and don?t get possessed. (I even listen to Howard Stern on the radio! ) I don?t agree with everything I read here. (Or with what I hear on Howard Stern either!) I think it?s great for people to freely voice their ideas and opinions. I love it. If we truly were taught to be able to ?separate truth from error? then why is everyone to afraid of Greasespot? Just hold fast to that which is good and toss the rest.
I am happy now. I can live with myself and I can honestly look God in the face and not be ashamed. I am free and it feels great. Hope you get the answers you are looking for here.
[This message was edited by Royal Gorge on October 22, 2002 at 21:10.]
I just had a thought while reading your wonderful posts, Since God has not given us the spirit of fear, the fear of "finding something better out there" had to be implanted by you know who?
That is the only proof I needed to look and I can tell you that it is EVERYTHING God has promised is can be here. He also promised in His word that there would be trials and tribulations but we all work at this thing called life.
I very rarely post here lately as the longer I'm out,the more and more I see the hurt MANY so called leaders have and still do cause.
Oh, and don't buy the lie that "nobody can imput fear but you",that's the 2nd way they get you fear.
These are just my observations and do not have MOST of the answers but, I DO know that God is good always and not just to that little farm in NK, Ohio he is much bigger than that.
Put Jesus Christ back to the position God gave him not the belittled state that twi puts him in. He has a lot more to do than you might think. No I don't pray to Jesus either but, in the name of Jesus Christ might be a little bigger than we thought.
Maybe you will let ResearchGeek share that with you sometime, it was a very healing teaching he gave called "Whats he doing up there?". And I have heard and seen more of those healing teachings in the past year than I heard in 10yrs at twi.
My family and I go to a fellowship with him and I have always been FULL everytime. There are many people out there to fellowship with if not, do it yourself . If you love God that's the only you need to teach you are Justified, Santified, Righteous, and Redeemed all the time not just in twi land.
Keep digging the more you dig, the more stinky stuff you find in their Hearts! And the truth is always logical so listen to logic we all have a brain. Have a great journey back to this thing called life.
God drove Adam and Eve from the garden because it would have been easier to stay, the great things in life are ALWAYS worth our effort.
And God still loves and protects us.
Fightin crimes of daway
[This message was edited by INDEBTSAYSWHO on October 23, 2002 at 6:05.]
Wayferlooking, I felt lost for a long time after I left twi 7 years ago. I missed the believers from my area and I felt that I had let God down, I guess. I still miss the fellowship with believers, but have been so hurt by people that I have shared hearts with for so many years wouldnt even call me or see me. But like so many posters have said, people that they have met in church or in other places have treated them with more respect and love than they ever received at twi. This past Mother's Day, I went to church where I grew up, along with most of my family. It had been 35 yrs since I had been in that Baptist church. But the preacher was right on in what he taught and we were all 'blessed'!!!!! It is not the end of the world out here 'in the real world'. In fact, God has prospered my life more since I left twi than ever in my life. So who is the fool or the one being fooled?????
Keep searching for the answers and dont be afraid to take that giant leap out of twi.....you wont regret it for a minute......
It is funny that we also thought our leadership had great hearts and loved God. Imagine our surprise when they were confronted with the truths of the Word on subjects and chose the ministry stance over the Word. TWI taught us that if somone loves the Word of God, they will recognize it and be attracted to its light and change. That is the only way I know to recognize meekness and love for God.
It was only when twi started changing and rules got relaxed that many people realized that, hey twi had RULES for my life. What is up with that? It contradicts all twi originally taught. If rules subtilly crept in, what else have I been conditioned to accept as ok?
I have often said that twi has actually done a great deal to move the Word by becoming so evil. So many people who do love God have left and started their own thing, or they fellowship with others they can be likeminded with. There are websites out there where you can actually get some real Word right on the website without writing for an application to be approved first. There are places that will send you tapes at no obligation whatsoever. There are classes and books you can buy and own for yourself to have and use as your need arises.
With what you have been taught, it should be easy to discern what is truth and what is error. Heck, that was on the green card from the foundational class of PFAL! So now, we just continue to do that daily. We prove all things and hold fast to that which is good. And guess what? That is what God tells us to do in His Word. And it is fun again! Just like it was in the beginning when you were learning to discern truth from error and finding out new and exciting truths and promises.
Never does the Bible say, "Do not ever let anything into your head that twi did not sanction" And just because twi sanctioned it does not make it true. Like you said about the original sin. Just because they still teach it (even though you say they know it is wrong) doesn't make it the truth.
It is wonderful to see someone going through the "eyes of your understanding being enlightened" thing again like we did. When you truly want to see, God will show you. I am excited for your wonderful adventure with God that is ahead for you.
Maybe ask leadership for clarificaton on something you are questioning. Maybe like the original sin thing. You will probably see what so many of us did - confusion, cover-up and just plain lies. You will see who holds to twi tradition and who holds to the Word.
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord! Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you (twi?) more than unto God, judge ye.
Life is so much better out here in God's country!
ps. One of the first things I did when I started seeing the evil was to read all the church epistles with the idea of twi being the bad guys it talks about. Amazingly enough it ALL fits!HMMMMMMMM
It's actually great to get so much information from you all. I've been thinking quite a bit the last few days. One thing I know for sure from a lot of posting is negativity about RFR. Like I've said before, I didn't have the opportunity to get much out of her while at HQ. My theory is that I don't think evil of people unless they give me a reason to do so. Rascal, I am curious acout the information in the following quote. What mandates are are talking about?
quote:She is responsible for the most onerous and controlling mandates in twi, even when lcm was in charge.
She appears to be very adept at manipulating from behind the scenes, and has been doing so for many years, even BEFORE her presidency.
With RR in charge, I doubt any serious changes can/will be made
I just want to understand I realize that a lot of people think RFR is hiding stuff because they believe she knew about LCM's crap a long time ago and didn't reveal it or confront it. Given the circumstances, I kinda understand why--even though I don't condone it. I guess I just put myself in her shoes. Would you want to narc on the MOG back in 1995? Maybe not. Of course, it's a different day and time now. One of the things I know for sure that a WC friend shared with me during the AC Special two years ago when they had a Corps Meeting about LCM's Snafu. She said we are not a screaming and yelling ministry any more. It's something to go by, maybe not a lot. I just don't want to be extreme either way--just balanced.
Wayfer I understand and see your heart in that you have not seen any harm from RFR but did you not hear her in her teaching slam J. Reynolds because of his poor health? I mean come on everyone can see where that came from . I'm not being cruel just trying to let the truth be heard and not candy coated. That was out and out WRONG for her to condemn anybody about their health, but she does it with that school marm charm. I don't want to get anyone mad but you will eventually anyway in or out.IMHO
May I suggest something here. If your are indeed looking to leave, it would be best not to leave alone. If your a single person this can be a huge adjustment. Really..There are many loving people who would welcome and help you through the change.Learning to walk with God and not being supported by the present truth stuff is a huge change. Please find someone in you branch area and trust together.I left in Jan. of 00'. I have learned to walk with Father on my own and it is sweet. I also had people I knew here who had left in 95 and only experienced a little abuse..
You asked how could we have put up with the b.s. so long?
"TWI really does not have to make any sense anymore. They have truly blinded people's minds to the point that they can say and do anything. People just follow along. Only those that WANT to wake up will ever smell the coffee."
Napkinlady
There are spirits of error and slumber. When I left twi, it was if scales fell off my eyes and I was not so spiritually blind AND DEAF!
Ephesians 3:20 came back into my life. God is able to do, NOT twi.
So now twi is excited about digging up the old PFAL class. I just discovered a better foundational Bible class called New Life in Christ, taught by John S, with CES. You can buy it on CDs for $70.
It is 10 times better than PFAL, 100 times better than WAP!
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rascal
Hey, let me first say...Welcome to greasespot!
Glad that you are here...don`t worry about what people here
think...we have a multiplicity of opinions and experiences here.
I am glad that you have the choice to stay and stand up for yourself...lol many of us were thrown out, and m&a `d for far less.
I know some here whom were lied about and slandered because they refused the *blessings* that the Man of God proffered.
They never had the chance to stand up and defend themselves, to tell their side...simply were just escorted off grounds between armed security men.
They found when returning to their areas that ALL of the believers had been notified of their suspiscious spiritual darkness, and were warned not to speak to them less they become possessed as well.
I hope that you are right, that things are changing for the better....however, keep in mind....that those in charge now, those whom you are willing to entrust your spiritual life to...backed lcm in all of his lunacy to the HILT and in many cases actively participated in the cover up.
Lol...hang on it is bound to be a bumpy ride as you hear the side of the story you never knew...
It will be a rough ride....but well worth the trip.
You are not alone, there are other posters here that are still *in* that we very much love and respect.
We are not innie bashers...lol but keep in mind, many here have suffered atrocities that are unimaginable at leaderships hands.
Many here HAVE found meaningfull fellowship and growth outside of twi, so don`t be upset if all do not share your enthusiasm for twi`s *truths* anymore lol.
Seriously, glad you decided to *check* us out....don`t be afraid to jump right in the forums and mix it up a bit!
If you hgaven`t checked out the main page yet, there is a lot of usefull, eye opening information.
Cathy
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wayferlookin
I am very aware that many have been hurt very badly by leadership. I am very sympathetic also. I've experienced LCM's BS in the dining room many times. I also understand your feelings on those who are now in charge and had backed LCM's actions after knowing about it for awhile (or long time--who knows?) I don't trust my life to them anymore; I used to put that much trust in them. I think we all understand we are responsible for ourselves. I'm not exactly sure how I feel about RFR; I didn't have the opportunity to talk to her much; she wasn't always one who was accessible. She's rather non-talkative, so it's hard to see where she's at. I felt this way even while on Staff. I do have to say that I really love Harve Platig and John Reynolds; I had many interactions with them, and I do not believe they are evil or men with bad intentions. I truly believe they work with pure hearts and love people.
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Steve!
Umm, Wayferlooking, I'm hearing some conflicting messages.
I'm not trying to be snide or accusing.
If it's the best thing going, then how come you can't trust your heart to them?
If it's the best thing going, then how come they have that micro-management run-your-schedule-past-your-hfc thing going?
If it's the best thing going, then how come the leadership from the top down to the LC level and even below have all become hard hearted?
And I'm sure you can come up with more questions like that on your own.
Are you really so sure that it's the best thing going?
Even if their doctrine were 100% sound - and I believe that I understand their doctrine, being a PFAL Advanced Class grad - is that reallllly the kind of people that you want to fellowship with?
And what if some of the posters here are right, that their doctrines have fundamental flaws? Research Geek was in the research department. He's got a top 10 list of how TWI misses the boat.
And wasn't fellowship always supposed to be so sweet, that even if we got to heaven, and it wasn't there, we had the greatest time going?
If you are really happy with your fellowship, then far be it from me to criticize. I say, God bless you, and more power to you!
But your very own posts say that you don't have that koinoneo, that full sharing.
Regards
Steve
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wayferlookin
Steve,
I don't mean to sound as if I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. I haven't decided to leave because of fear. There I admit it. I just don't know what to do. I hear it's not necessarily a bed of roses outside either. I believe the BOD know that people don't trust their hearts to the leadership because of the past happenings. Like I said before, I have seen the hearts of HP and JR, and I believe they are pure-hearted. I don't necessarily feel that way about ALL leadership. I don't believe all Way leadership is hard-hearted, and I don't believe they have pure sound doctrine. I belive the bit about the original sin WAP is bulls*it. I believe the BOD see that and will take it off the agenda. I know that there was a Dept. coord. at HQ who left and hurt a lot of people in their oversight. That person contacted RFR and was required to make amends and apologize to those hurt by that person before they could come to HQ. I think that was a right decision. People should apologize for their wrongs to others. Those are the kinds of things that get held on to in people's minds.
I haven't seen on are REGULAR basis the micro-management things. I have seen a lot of it drop by the way side. My FC was new, and still very influenced by LCM traits. The micro-mangement thing hasn't come up since. Plus, no one has to submit to that. They only do if they allow it. I determined when I was on Staff that I would not be subject to micro-management. LCM should have been the one being micro-managed. That FC is no longer a FC. To me, that indicates that leadership is watching what's going on. That FC went to the LC about my refusals to submit to itineraries and involving them in decision making. The LC told the FC that it was ridiculous to expect those kinds of things out of people.
If I hear you right, you believe that ALL (without exception) of the leadershp are hard-hearted. I don't think so. If I see not so desirable people, I steer clear of them. That's the beauty of it. We don't have to be friends and lovey dovey to someone just because they are in the household. I'm probably not going to like everyone (like my old FC), and if I don't I get out of those situations. It doesn't happen often.
I just can't imagine going ot church to pray to Jesus. I went to church with my sister a few months ago, and I liked it, but I am very adamant about not praying to Jesus. It's been ingrained in me for 20 years, and I believe what I've been taught about the Trinity. What do you have going that you think it better? I'd like to hear. I'm always willing to consider things or I wouldn't be at GS.
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rascal
That is very encouraging to hear about John and Harve, maybe they will be able to turn things around. I really hope so, for all of the folks whom remain there.
I can however say, that it will be a difficult process, because having read from the many people who have worked with their (John n Harv`s)boss through the years....she is a real snake.
She is responsible for the most onerous and controlling mandates in twi, even when lcm was in charge.
She appears to be very adept at manipulating from behind the scenes, and has been doing so for many years, even BEFORE her presidency.
With RR in charge, I doubt any serious changes can/will be made.
Anyway, I am glad that you are here, I am glad that there are some in twi, with some guts left, folks that are still able to stand up to leadership over things that were never any of their business anyway.
A word of caution, I hope you will remain discrete in revealing personal details about yourself, your state, or your fellowship.
This sight IS monitered, and usually when leadership pin points who you are, they attempt to make life miserable. Folks busted here have been labled possessed, and thrown out more than once.
If you aren`t ready to leave....please be carefull.
Cathy
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wayferlookin
Rascal,
It wouldn't break my heart if I was kicked out. I still believe God will protect me even if I ditch TWI or am ditched.
Love,
Wayfer
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rascal
Lol...we were posting at the same time wayfer....I`d like to reply about being *outside*
Sure it is tough out here at first, you are in a major process of rediscovering who you are...what is real...what is of value....is God mad....where should I be now..have I wasted my life up to this point...lol
Growth and change isn`t always easy, but highly worth the effort.
If you talk to anybody here, once they have been out a while, and seen the greatness of God working in their life...free from the constraints of anal leadership, and missapplication of some really wierd doctrines....as tough as it got at times out here...they would NEVER go back to twi.
Churches get a bad rap from twi....they don`t ALL pray to jesus, lol...even those that do, have areas that they have Godly longsuits in....somethings understood and operated even better than twi...
Belief in prayer, great ministries in healing...great outreaches to communties...ministering to anyone in need...taking God to the prisons....all Godly persuits and part of balanced spiritual health.
But how are folks gonna recieve any of that, or apreciate their value if they are convinced before they ever walk through the doors that they already have all the answeres and that the churches are ignorant at best and evil at worst?
Let me tell you something, not ONE of the many churches that I have attended (whether they prayed to Jesus or not ;-) in ALL the years since leaving.....have EVER treated its followers as vilely as twi.
Very few of them were coercing the pretty young women into *servicing the Man of God* as part of their spiritual *duties* either lol
Sometimes I wonder if twi is so focused on the *word*, that it misses a great majority of the OTHER important details of a spiritual walk with God.....
That is the blessing of getting out wafer, imo you get the pleasure of developing an even richer more diversified relationship with God, and your bretheren.
Not that I am saying that you or anyone else, cannot enjoy yourselves while involved with twi.....I just wanted to correct the idea that life outside of the walls of zion cannot be exhilerating and spirit filled as well, (even more so than when in sometimes) .........
I`m not here to bash twi, I`m just anxious to correct the misperception (is that a word?) that someone has to stay with twi even when they are miserable.....simply because *there just isn`t anything better*
Think about *who* told you that and why they might say it....
Cathy
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insurgent
Welcome, Wayfer!
I'm an "innie" who desparately wants to be free from TWI regardless of the "doctrine" they teach. They certainly don't live anything they teach and to me that means they may as well not be teaching. They were great for me and my life at one time, but they aren't meeting my needs anymore and I get the feeling that anything they change or do now is just to hold onto my money. There isn't really any agape love in that place. It's dark and dead and people are just going through the motions. My family is convinced that there is nothing better out there, but you know what? We haven't looked and they WON'T look! The last time any of us went to a "church" other than to appease a distant family member all we did was nitpick. Sure, you can find anything to complain about if you look hard enough. But I would bet that we could find a lot of things better than TWI in in those same churches. Heck, if nothing else, there's enough people to volunteer for things so that you aren't always stuck having to "serve" at every freaking thing.
You said, "People need to learn that they should do only what they are convinced they need to be doing. No one tells me what to do anymore, and I'm not considered a heretic in TWI. The way you live life is manifested by the fruit you produce--good or not. That should be evidence enough of someone's heart. "
That's asking an awful lot of people who don't even realize that they don't have to do what leadership tells them. (Remember, "suggestion from leadership is tantamount to a command"?) No one tells you what to do RIGHT NOW, but it will come back to that. RFR is the instigator of all that legalism. She just let LCM take the credit for it and is backing off for a bit. The upper echelons of WC have to kiss her a** to keep their paychecks and lofty lifestyles. They WILL enforce her rules when she makes them again.
You mention fruit in our lives. We were blinded to see the rotten fruit for years, don't you think? What kind of fruit do you see now? How many people are coming to TWI? How many WD are there going out? How many people continue to stick around? What kind of lives do you see in the leadership around you? Why do you think JR is sick and resigned? What did you think about his letter that RFR read at the anniversary service? Did you see any subtext in that?
I'm not attacking you. I'm very glad that you're here and that you are brave enough to post and ask questions and look around. I think you'll start to see more and more that TWI is not what you think it is. You've already started. It can be really hard to face up to and please know that there are many people here who will help you. So many people who have been through what we're going through. I've spent many a night crying and posting or reading here. It's a rude awakening to say the least, but it does get better and it feels good to know the truth about what TWI is all about.
Really, it's good to see you here! I recommend the cinnamon rolls (if you ask nicely they'll put extra icing on them!)
(all apologies to the post length enforcer - i'll refrain from posting much more today to make up for the space i've taken up here)
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Steve!
Hey, lookin, that was quite a well thought out response.
And, umm, I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to corner you, or to accuse you of talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Sometimes we aren't totally aware of the words we speak (or post). Sometimes we don't even really know our own feelings until and unless someone says, "Hey, didja realize that . . .".
Yes, you are correct, I cannot say that ALL leadership are hard hearted. But the core of leadership is.
I personally do not attend any sort of fellowship or church, not currently. But there are a lot of posters here that attend varying services. And we have a poster that is a pastor of a Presbyterian church! His handle is Plotinus.
There are those that will swear by the TWI off-shoots. My feeling is: they are all TWI "lite".
Some really like the Joyce Meyer ministries, because she sounds as if she could be a PFAL grad.
Have you thought that perhaps you think that TWI is the "best thing going" is because they are always telling you that? (now THAT'S a tongue twister!)
Do you think that God is so powerless, so ineffectual, that He would limit Himself to one small "ministry" of fewer than 4,000 people? Somehow, that doesn't sound right to me.
Regards,
Steve!
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Cindy!
I too had the prejudice against churches...all the years of twi teaching that anything other than twi is a whited sepulchre. twi promoted the hard hearted attitude and I unthinkingly bought into it...that is until I was teaching in England for a few months. One of the requirements for the program I was doing was to do a community service project. I "somehow" stumbled into working with a Church of England church and an Episcople(sp?) church who were trying to unite the two churches into one community of worship.
The Church of England minister had a heart for people, the likes of which I had never seen before and have rarely seen since. The other minister was very picky about keeping the letter of the law...even to questioning whether to give communion to me one sunday. The CofE minister leaned over to her and said "go ahead, this girl is ok"
I made it a point to spend as much time with him as I could...we had lunch, went out for coffee, and sat in his church office and talked for hours.
After seeing how wonderful he was, I decided to rid myself of the hard-hearted prejudice against churches. Noone has the corner on the household, and until the return of Christ, noone ever will.
[This message was edited by chinson on October 22, 2002 at 8:45.]
[This message was edited by chinson on October 22, 2002 at 8:48.]
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Eaglehouse
Wayfer,
Just hang in there. Just like the posters said above, you will be surprised all the Word and love that's out there. (God is closer than your deepest breathe and you don't need a man in-between to interpret his love to your heart).
We were at HQ for many years, during LCM's reign and fall. Finding G.S. was a way for me to see opinions expressed that were totally unspeakable at HQ. Then I was finally able to formulate my inner passions once the fear had subsided.
I'm sure we crossed paths many times and I'm so thankful for your honest post and pure heart to let God lead you in the right direction.
You are in God's Household regardless of where you hang your coat. Don't get caught up in their thinking of "We're just like the first century church", (which was a "pillar of truth" for me). Just know we love you whatever you decide to do and don't feel guilty for your quest for inner joy. Love, EH
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Radar OReilly
Dear Wayferlooking,
I relate to you in a very particular way. I graduated from the 13th corps on July 6th '85 and started my staff position on July 13th '85. I was there until the day after roa 1994 (count them...9 whole years.) When I left hq for the first time in 9 years, I took a position on the field in the same town as the limb which at that time was B__ * D_____ M______. It was a fabulous and freeing experience and I was very, very happy. I had known B&D for years at hq and had worked with them almost daily on staff, moving to be with them was the best of both worlds to me at that time.
I knew in my heart and had plenty of reason to know in my mind that things at hq (and especially lcm) were screwed up but life in my little corner of the world with B&D was delightful. The more time I spent actually away from hq, working out in the world, meeting "real" people the more I began to realize that my life at hq had been a mirage.
In May of 1995 when lcm made the annoucement that all corps on the field were going to be full time twi staff I totally freaked out. NO WAY was I going to take my paycheck from lcm again and hand him back the reigns to my life...that I was just regaining. I was one of those that just couldn't do it....on September 1 the day we were all supposed to be full time....I went back to my job (that I had quit) and asked them to take me back...I haven't really looked back since. In March of 1998 I moved to a new state,on December 1 of 1999 I called my limb guy and told him I was outta there after 28 years of being in twi.
Wayferlooking, it is a new path that you are on. It may be painful at times as you begin the process of REALLY sorting out who you are, what you believe, what you think, how you FEEL which is gonna be a whole new experience for you. Learning to feel and analyze and explore, it has been the most fulfilling part for me. Have I found what I was looking for? I don't know, do I even know what I was looking for...am looking for, I don't know yet. Each day is a new way to experience life as I learn to deal with it without the twi colored lens.
The biggest part of my own healing was Waydale and then Greasespot. I was able to spill my guts and learn from others how they were dealing with their own paths of discovery. I couldn't have done it without many of the posters that are still here at gspot, it was having the understanding of other twi "survivors" that made it possible for me to begin to make some sense of everything.
Go with God Wayferlooking, it is gonna be a really cool ride from here on out!
If you need anything, let me know....my email is in my profile.
Radar
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Royal Gorge
I?m glad to hear that you aren?t letting leadership tell you how to run your life. You?re a better person that I was. I pretty much did whatever they told me. I?m sure we must know each other if you were on staff at all from 1992-1999 when I was at HQ. It sounds like you are probably not Way Corps, and that can make a difference on your perspective. I was in TWI for 25 years, since 1976. I was Way Corps from 1988 - 1998.
I loved the fellowship on the field that I was attending before I left. Loved the people. But I couldn?t honestly continue to support The Way anymore because I disagreed with what I was seeing going on. I had a list of about six or seven fundamental policies and practices that I felt were wrong. (I haven?t really delved into the doctrinal side or felt I needed to yet ? I felt that there was enough bad stuff being practiced to make up my mind that I had to go.) As a result I felt it was what I had to do ? leave the fellowship. (Since then the TC?s and their assistants have left the ministry too!) I would have felt hypocritical attending Fellowship but refusing to abundantly share and harbor ill feelings toward many of the top leadership. I couldn't live like that. I?m either all or nothing with that decision so I just cut the ties.
Since leaving I have felt a lot more blessed. And so has my family. We don?t attend a church and I doubt that I will ever be involved in any organized religious group. My wife and I teach our kids at home. This is one of the biggest issues to resolve that I?ve seen and have heard others voice the same concern. I do miss the fellowship of other believers. However, about ten of us ex-twi people get together about once a month and have parties and cookouts.
I find many people, co-workers, neighbors, friends, etc. who treat me better and with more love and respect than ?household? believers did. I could never go back to The Way. I refuse to allow myself to be treated the way I have been treated and seen others treated. I don?t understand how someone can support an organization that has never apologized to so many people that they have knowingly hurt. But that?s for you to decide. You need to do what you feel you need to do, but for God?s sake don?t stay because you?re afraid! God is still God even outside of The Way. If anything, I?ve seen how much bigger God?s power and love is since leaving the narrow definition propounded by The Way. God works in the hearts and lives of MANY people! People who are not in The Way and have not even heard about The Way. God is big. He will be there for you. But don?t just stay because of fear! We have friends who just recently made the decision to cut their ties with The Way and they now understand what we?ve been telling them for the past number of months. Things are falling into place for them now faster than ever. The right job came along, the house situation got resolved, they are more blessed.
I made the break from TWI in my mind when I finally decided to quit ignoring what my conscience was telling me and think for myself! I figure that The Way had 25 years to make their point and I just wasn?t getting it. I couldn?t reconcile what I saw being taught with how I saw people getting treated. If that?s godliness then I don?t want any part of it. I?ll go to hell before I would treat people like that. I got tired of ?putting things on my spiritual shelf? in hopes that one day I would be spiritual enough to ?understand? the actions of Way International leadership.
I read Greasespot and don?t get possessed. (I even listen to Howard Stern on the radio! ) I don?t agree with everything I read here. (Or with what I hear on Howard Stern either!) I think it?s great for people to freely voice their ideas and opinions. I love it. If we truly were taught to be able to ?separate truth from error? then why is everyone to afraid of Greasespot? Just hold fast to that which is good and toss the rest.
I am happy now. I can live with myself and I can honestly look God in the face and not be ashamed. I am free and it feels great. Hope you get the answers you are looking for here.
[This message was edited by Royal Gorge on October 22, 2002 at 21:10.]
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INDEBTSAYSWHO
WayferLookin, welcome to the land of NO FEAR.
I just had a thought while reading your wonderful posts, Since God has not given us the spirit of fear, the fear of "finding something better out there" had to be implanted by you know who?
That is the only proof I needed to look and I can tell you that it is EVERYTHING God has promised is can be here. He also promised in His word that there would be trials and tribulations but we all work at this thing called life.
I very rarely post here lately as the longer I'm out,the more and more I see the hurt MANY so called leaders have and still do cause.
Oh, and don't buy the lie that "nobody can imput fear but you",that's the 2nd way they get you fear.
These are just my observations and do not have MOST of the answers but, I DO know that God is good always and not just to that little farm in NK, Ohio he is much bigger than that.
Put Jesus Christ back to the position God gave him not the belittled state that twi puts him in. He has a lot more to do than you might think. No I don't pray to Jesus either but, in the name of Jesus Christ might be a little bigger than we thought.
Maybe you will let ResearchGeek share that with you sometime, it was a very healing teaching he gave called "Whats he doing up there?". And I have heard and seen more of those healing teachings in the past year than I heard in 10yrs at twi.
My family and I go to a fellowship with him and I have always been FULL everytime. There are many people out there to fellowship with if not, do it yourself . If you love God that's the only you need to teach you are Justified, Santified, Righteous, and Redeemed all the time not just in twi land.
Keep digging the more you dig, the more stinky stuff you find in their Hearts! And the truth is always logical so listen to logic we all have a brain. Have a great journey back to this thing called life.
God drove Adam and Eve from the garden because it would have been easier to stay, the great things in life are ALWAYS worth our effort.
And God still loves and protects us.
Fightin crimes of daway
[This message was edited by INDEBTSAYSWHO on October 23, 2002 at 6:05.]
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OCD #1
I beg to differ.
Lucky Mrs. Jake
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act2
Wayferlooking, I felt lost for a long time after I left twi 7 years ago. I missed the believers from my area and I felt that I had let God down, I guess. I still miss the fellowship with believers, but have been so hurt by people that I have shared hearts with for so many years wouldnt even call me or see me. But like so many posters have said, people that they have met in church or in other places have treated them with more respect and love than they ever received at twi. This past Mother's Day, I went to church where I grew up, along with most of my family. It had been 35 yrs since I had been in that Baptist church. But the preacher was right on in what he taught and we were all 'blessed'!!!!! It is not the end of the world out here 'in the real world'. In fact, God has prospered my life more since I left twi than ever in my life. So who is the fool or the one being fooled?????
Keep searching for the answers and dont be afraid to take that giant leap out of twi.....you wont regret it for a minute......
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napkinlady
Boy, we have been there too.
It is funny that we also thought our leadership had great hearts and loved God. Imagine our surprise when they were confronted with the truths of the Word on subjects and chose the ministry stance over the Word. TWI taught us that if somone loves the Word of God, they will recognize it and be attracted to its light and change. That is the only way I know to recognize meekness and love for God.
It was only when twi started changing and rules got relaxed that many people realized that, hey twi had RULES for my life. What is up with that? It contradicts all twi originally taught. If rules subtilly crept in, what else have I been conditioned to accept as ok?
I have often said that twi has actually done a great deal to move the Word by becoming so evil. So many people who do love God have left and started their own thing, or they fellowship with others they can be likeminded with. There are websites out there where you can actually get some real Word right on the website without writing for an application to be approved first. There are places that will send you tapes at no obligation whatsoever. There are classes and books you can buy and own for yourself to have and use as your need arises.
With what you have been taught, it should be easy to discern what is truth and what is error. Heck, that was on the green card from the foundational class of PFAL! So now, we just continue to do that daily. We prove all things and hold fast to that which is good. And guess what? That is what God tells us to do in His Word. And it is fun again! Just like it was in the beginning when you were learning to discern truth from error and finding out new and exciting truths and promises.
Never does the Bible say, "Do not ever let anything into your head that twi did not sanction" And just because twi sanctioned it does not make it true. Like you said about the original sin. Just because they still teach it (even though you say they know it is wrong) doesn't make it the truth.
It is wonderful to see someone going through the "eyes of your understanding being enlightened" thing again like we did. When you truly want to see, God will show you. I am excited for your wonderful adventure with God that is ahead for you.
Maybe ask leadership for clarificaton on something you are questioning. Maybe like the original sin thing. You will probably see what so many of us did - confusion, cover-up and just plain lies. You will see who holds to twi tradition and who holds to the Word.
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord! Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you (twi?) more than unto God, judge ye.
Life is so much better out here in God's country!
ps. One of the first things I did when I started seeing the evil was to read all the church epistles with the idea of twi being the bad guys it talks about. Amazingly enough it ALL fits!HMMMMMMMM
Napkinlady
Fold TWI, Fold!
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wayferlookin
It's actually great to get so much information from you all. I've been thinking quite a bit the last few days. One thing I know for sure from a lot of posting is negativity about RFR. Like I've said before, I didn't have the opportunity to get much out of her while at HQ. My theory is that I don't think evil of people unless they give me a reason to do so. Rascal, I am curious acout the information in the following quote. What mandates are are talking about?
I just want to understand I realize that a lot of people think RFR is hiding stuff because they believe she knew about LCM's crap a long time ago and didn't reveal it or confront it. Given the circumstances, I kinda understand why--even though I don't condone it. I guess I just put myself in her shoes. Would you want to narc on the MOG back in 1995? Maybe not. Of course, it's a different day and time now. One of the things I know for sure that a WC friend shared with me during the AC Special two years ago when they had a Corps Meeting about LCM's Snafu. She said we are not a screaming and yelling ministry any more. It's something to go by, maybe not a lot. I just don't want to be extreme either way--just balanced.
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INDEBTSAYSWHO
Wayfer I understand and see your heart in that you have not seen any harm from RFR but did you not hear her in her teaching slam J. Reynolds because of his poor health? I mean come on everyone can see where that came from . I'm not being cruel just trying to let the truth be heard and not candy coated. That was out and out WRONG for her to condemn anybody about their health, but she does it with that school marm charm. I don't want to get anyone mad but you will eventually anyway in or out.IMHO
Fightin crimes of daway
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TED Ferrell
Escuse me for posting on the wrong thread.Have to retype and put it where it should be.
[This message was edited by TED Ferrell on October 23, 2002 at 20:37.]
[This message was edited by TED Ferrell on October 25, 2002 at 21:31.]
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rascal
What policies rfr instituted....hmmmm
I guess I should have said many, instead of *the most*.
The info that was given to me, was from different people whom have either worked in her dept....or in close proximity through the years.
Their stories are not mine to tell...I would prefer that they step in here and share what they personally saw and experienced.
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likeaneagle
May I suggest something here. If your are indeed looking to leave, it would be best not to leave alone. If your a single person this can be a huge adjustment. Really..There are many loving people who would welcome and help you through the change.Learning to walk with God and not being supported by the present truth stuff is a huge change. Please find someone in you branch area and trust together.I left in Jan. of 00'. I have learned to walk with Father on my own and it is sweet. I also had people I knew here who had left in 95 and only experienced a little abuse..
email me if you need..I would be blessed to help.
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Golfie
You asked how could we have put up with the b.s. so long?
"TWI really does not have to make any sense anymore. They have truly blinded people's minds to the point that they can say and do anything. People just follow along. Only those that WANT to wake up will ever smell the coffee."
Napkinlady
There are spirits of error and slumber. When I left twi, it was if scales fell off my eyes and I was not so spiritually blind AND DEAF!
Ephesians 3:20 came back into my life. God is able to do, NOT twi.
So now twi is excited about digging up the old PFAL class. I just discovered a better foundational Bible class called New Life in Christ, taught by John S, with CES. You can buy it on CDs for $70.
It is 10 times better than PFAL, 100 times better than WAP!
It is high time to wake up and smell the coffee.
May God bless you.
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