I was exhausted Tuesday night and went to bed in the middle of the President's speech, but I hope those of you who listened to it in its entirety tell me he also addressed parents of school age children. Most if not all of us take (or took) an interest in our child's education. We strove to help them do well, and knew our kids and their needs as best we could.
What got me to thinking about this was Waysider's post about problems with the system; no busing, school lunch programs, other programs being cut. Here in Ohio, school districts are funded by state money but also by levies. There often isn't enough money to go around, and sometimes in my opinion it's not always proportioned equitably. Mr. Garden teaches in a primarily rural district; the majority of his students are farm kids.
He is required to stay after school on parent/teacher conference nights. How many parents do you think show up to discuss their children's grades, progress etc.? Usually none. If one or two do make an appearance, they are the ones whose kids do well.
Parental involvement ain't what it used to be, and as often as not, if the child misbehaves, the parent is outraged - at the teacher, not the child.
As far as the levies are concerned, we have several school districts here whose levies haven't passed. They are hurting. I can understand that this year, but not three or four years ago. It took three times on the ballot for our last levy to pass, and then only because there was a huge snowstorm the night before they voted, and the people who voted it down, in one tiny area of the district, got the worst of it and were stuck at home. The levy passed by 6 votes and the kids still have aides and ride buses. (I really think that is one instance of divine intervention).
The governor has a new education plan that I hope passes the legislature and works. It sounds really good and well thought out, eliminates the Ohio Graduation Test, and will also require higher standards of teachers. I hope we get it.
WG, who has voted for every school levy in every district she has ever lived in, whether she had a kid in school there or not!
but I hope those of you who listened to it in its entirety tell me he also addressed parents of school age children.
That was pretty much the primary point of that entire section of the speech
These education policies will open the doors of opportunity for our children.
But it is up to us to ensure they walk through them.
In the end, there is no program or policy that can substitute for a parent -- for a mother or father who will attend those parent/teacher conferences, or help with homework, or turn off the TV, put away the video games, read to their child.
I speak to you not just as a President, but as a father, when I say that responsibility for our children's education must begin at home.
That is not a Democratic issue or a Republican issue. That's an American issue.
Its a shame that people have to be told what is obvious, but your post amply illustrates why
I'm sorry I missed that. I agree so strongly with that and I hope and pray we can follow through and make that vision a reality.
I seem to remember hearing that in some state or other, parents can be fined if they skip these meetings. It might have been at least a proposal somewhere in Ohio, but I'm not sure. I actually think I heard it on Fox or read it on some conservative website that was having a snit fit about it, but if money is so important the parents feel they have to hang on to theirs and not help finance their child's education, it might be the only way to get their attention.
And this is not entirely a new problem: Back in 1969-70 during my brief stint as a teacher, I had a 15 year old farm boy student who sat in the back of the class, turned his desk around, and started out the window. The reason: His dad had announced that the day before his 16th birthday was his last day of school. He needed him to help work the farm and thought edjakashun was stoopid. The principal and I tried to talk him out of it to no avail. The man had nothing but contempt for the concept of a high school degree.
So Bubba sat in the back for the room for a few months and stared out the window and flatly refused to do anything else. I think he is one of the very very few kids I failed, and maybe the only kid. I felt like the real failing grade went to Dad.
It wasn't always like this, but the last decade or so that I taught, there were fewer and fewer parents coming to Back to School Nights or to pick up their student's Report Card. The last two years I had fewer than 3 oar 4 parents come to homeroom to get the report card.
Then during the conference times scheduled for later that evening, I had perhaps a half dozen parents come to discuss things. I had between 103 and 120 students those years.
A face to face conference isn't always necessary and certainly I understand why parents could not come out in the evenings. Younger children at home (in a single parent home) in poor inner cities could make such evening visits impossible. But phone conferences work just as well many times. The only ones I ever had were ones I instituted myself!
I can't speak for the whole country as I taught in north Jersey as a rule, but there are many very serious problems facing all or nearly all of the public schools in this area. Poverty and parental lassitude are only a few of them. Many of the buildings are very old and need so much repair work, that IMHO it would be more cost effective to tear them down and start from scratch [but there is precious little land available in our cities now].
Also, IMHO in order to upgrade the curriculum, you would need to expand the school year. You cannot teach 250 days worth of chemistry, foreign language, science or math in 180 days. Fight the unions over that one.
I saw the problems and there are solutions I could suggest but they all cost money or go against the grain of the unions. I'm not anti-union necessarily - - if teachers have to work 200 days....pay them for 200 days.
If there is sufficient money given to the schools in ways they can use it [not only text books or equipment] it wouldn't take very long for this situation to turn around.
Extending the school year is on Gov. Strickland's agenda and Mr. Garden heartily agrees. Especially in years like this one, where they have had 7 calamity days (Hurricane Ike and then ice and snow later), the continuity of the class gets interrupted. He teaches introduction to business, accounting, business law (aka "street law"), software aps, and probably something else I can't remember. Especially the business law gets crunched.
I agree it's multifactorial and I agree it's imperative as a nation we get this stuff resolved. Everyone in this country needs to buckle down and get it right.
I think its an overall degradation in many areas...both parents and teachers...
I work in a Title I school...we have meth moms not PTA moms --
I sent my kid to a suburban school where it seemed strong and positive.
I since have had to pull him out and find alternative education....I was even told by a teacher in a class in his 10th grade, (20 of 24 flunking) it wasn't her fault...(this happened every year and the principal would not let me move my kid) --she was the char of the department for crying out loud.
I just foundout in our school district we actually contract with somebody to pick up and take home drunk TEACHERS!
So while parents of this younger era seem to be less accountable--so are the teachers.
These are strong arguments for the homeschooling communities...which when done well is great, and conversely when poorly - is unsuccessful ---JUST like schools.
In the case of my son, he became a target of reverse discrimination. In a largely hispanic and black school, the black principal of the 4 principals singled him and a couple of other students to constantly stearch them, their cars and generally disrupt their education. My son passed every drug test ever given to him, he has held down a job even over the summer when all his friends quit...He is gifted in math and still he was harassed almost every day. By the end of October, after my heart attack, I said enough was enough and we pulled him after the testing at the community college.
Oh and Krys -- you know what is sad... Here in New Mexico - you have to be a Level 3 teacher to make more than what we spend in inmates in one year...
I make less than what they spend on an inmate.
Talk about social priorities....
I think Sherriff Maricopa has it down--at least in Arizona they don't spend more on inmates than teachers!
But I guess that's getting off topic...or maybe its complicated and Obama's comment was simplistic and out of touch and he was using guilt as leverage?
However, in the summers he works with his brother-in-law, who is self-employed as a landscape architect. For several summers they worked on the landscaping of the woman who was in charge of the State Board of Education under our former (yucky) governor. Mr. Garden told me he always wanted to leave a note on her door, asking her didn't she think it was ironic that he made more money cleaning out her flower beds than he does teaching.
WNW, I don't think that teacher should be allowed anywhere near a classroom. The Gov. of Ohio is wanting to address that problem, too, but probably will meet resistance from the OEA. And I think if teachers teach longer in the year, they should get paid more.
You definitely did the right thing pulling your son out! Sounds like he was smarter than the socalled educators there.
I don't think this is off topic and I think if we considered all the factors we discussed here as well as others that pop into our heads in the coming months.....we can state that quitting high school would be quitting on your country. Not just the students, but the parents who can't be bothered....the teachers who don't care any more etc.
Look into the NEA the national teacher's union. Go search them and find out what they really really do! I had to pay them $48 every single paycheck [one can refuse to join unions in NJ but it's not easy or practical to work that way] That means $960 from me every year. There were about 112 teachers in my building so that comes to $107,520 from my school. There were 7 other schools in the district. This was one medium-sized city in NJ. Do the math.....How much do they [NEA] pull in each year and what do they spend it on???? I honestly do not know. I don't know how to find that kind of info. However I never saw a program for students or teachers come from them. now that is off topic, sorry
Anyway - if all these things could be addressed properly we would all become proud of our educational system and our students. If that doesn't lead to patriotism, then maybe it's time for me to leave the country and spend my last days in Costa Rica.
I seem to remember hearing that in some state or other, parents can be fined if they skip these meetings. It might have been at least a proposal somewhere in Ohio, but I'm not sure. I actually think I heard it on Fox or read it on some conservative website that was having a snit fit about it, but if money is so important the parents feel they have to hang on to theirs and not help finance their child's education, it might be the only way to get their attention.
I had perhaps a half dozen parents come to discuss things. I had between 103 and 120 students those years.
I dont have children but this is horrifying to me. I really dont care what peoples reasonings or excuses are ---- this is just beyond my ability to comprehend.
Like I said in the above post -I am glad Obama nailed the parents on responsibility, buts its a shame and incredibly sad that he even had to make a point of it. It should be the most obvious thing in the world.
Maybe this is an obvious question or maybe I live to much in a bubble - but Is this country really that f'ed up?
In my opinion, the educational system is, yes, I'm so sorry to state that.
There are several of us teachers here....give us the reins and time to figure it out...with the help of a few other professional individuals, and we would straighten it out so it worked a whole lot better!
I would love to take some of the things used in some of the better charter schools and put them all together. Wow!
My grandson is in kindergarten in a charter school in FL. They have uniforms, but they are liberal...several colors and they can be mixed and matched shirts and bottoms. Would you believe that as part of his phys ed program they are teaching him yoga and he [and the rest in his group who are studying it] love it. He even practices it at home because he wants to win a prize for who is the stillest!
I know that the private schools are totally different. I've taught in them. It is like night and day.
In fairness, I'm sure all schools in the country are not like the ones here in NJ. And, most of the suburban schools are better....some of them even excellent.
In California I know many schools are top notch. The same is true in NY State. I attribute those successes to a different state of mind in the community and also those states have Regents Exams which in most cases....students need to pass them in order to graduate.
Today - one of my very well behaved students was tired. I asked if he got much sleep. No--Later I asked if he had a place to go practice reading outloud...No - he has no room, and shares a couch with his cousin. We are very careful not to embarrass these children..it is not their fault.
One of my 3rd graders that is repeatedly suspended brought a bottle opener yesterday..but was holding it like brass knuckles. (weapon at school) -- He is proud that he "has a record"
MStar - I could tell you about the 5th grader that was sellling Machetes at lunch...YES stuffing 11" inch Machetes he stole from the flea market to sell at school. He had no intention of hurting anyone...this is how Mom and Dad make money...
While standing in line the last 30 seconds of the day...One of my 4th graders tells me about his "awnty" that bootlegs movies and sells em in the Mexican community before they have even hit the stores....
Or I could tell you how I have had to call Children Youth and Families when one of my sweet girls came in with strangle marks on her neck and a black eye after a snow day because on that day Her "Papa" said she was not running fast enough when they had to hurry somewhere.
I am telling you this because THIS is reality!!! You need to realize this stuff does happen and yes the teachers need to be better..NEA is a farce and yes parents need to be just that--- parents.
Statistically the amount of students in High School that have depression is very high...I have the book at work -- but it is close to 4 out of 20 if I can remember correctly.
Would you call those people unpatriotic..or if a kid is sick of sharing a 1 bedroom apartment with 7 other people so they leave--it is way way complicated. The upper middle class is less and less of teh population...hell Obama calls Dr.s middle class....
The thing is, these people I speak of had these problems long before Obama and I don't think he will be able to fix these kinds of problems...like Krys said.
Also, I happen to be an Advocate with the National Center for Learning Disabilities...a political lobbying group for education. I can tell you our country (USA) is not alone in our idiocy....It is globally a shame how students with Learning Disabilities are treated....in any country. EVEN JAPAN.
The kids with learning disabilities who take software aps at the school Mr. Garden teaches at get him for that class. He is proud of them; he is always telling me how well they are doing.
Even back in the dark ages when I was in high school there was this cookie cutter mentality.
Sometimes it seems to me that people have children and forget why they had them, or had NO idea what a chore it can be to raise one. Sprout gave me MinSprout for an overnight!!!! He comes over with medication and instructions; he has been having fever, nausea, and vomiting. Mommie Dearest took him to the ER and he has a bottle of Phenergan (promethazine). It's a liquid but when I looked it up on WebMD I got chills: Don't give to children under 2 and in children over 2 only for prolonged vomiting with a known cause!!!! I've taken this stuff and my oh my will it knock you on your butt!
I'm gonna lose this stuff. It would be way too easy to give a child a dose if he was annoying you and it is a RESPIRATORY DEPRESSANT!
No way is Mommie Dearest getting this dang back to quiet him down with.
And Mrs. Daddy I agree with you all the way, especially about the NEA.
When my kids were little we lived in a big urban area. I volunteered in my kid's grade school for a couple years after teaching in rural Montana schools for seevral years. My kids did all right in the school, learned what they should--but there were just a handful of kids from families who expected their kids to behave and excel.
We moved back west mainly due to the schools. Here we were able to get the kids in a charter school with very high standards and a curriculum similar to private schools we could not afford--Latin, logic, political discourse, classics like Shakespeare.
They did have nearly an hour of homework a night, but by sophomore year they were easily a year or more ahead of the regular pubic schools.
Our highschool has a program with the local junior college, so my oldest is able to take dual credit classes at the junior college--highschool credit and college credit. The kid will enter college as a sophomore. The budget advantages are obvious--this is paid for through a school funding system. Plus, kid is not bored.
If we had not been able to move to an area where schools were better, I probably would have homeschooled. We were in a town with uniforms to keep out the gang colors, cops on campuses with dogs, check points etc, and a nearly 50% drop out rate.
I guess I don't understand why such schools don't horrify more parents into taking action.
I know this is a dying topic, but I needed to write down what my thoughts are.
I think maybe that High Schools quitting on the kids is more unpatriotic than vice versa. Not all schools are this way. But when we start them off in Elementary in overcrowded classes and curriculum purchased by sycophants hammered by publisher lobbyists that is inadequate in its sequence and scope, and then force the teacher who didn't learn anything but the different philosophies of "education" - (the religious aspect of education) what do they in Washington expect?
Do these sycophants actually listen to the teachers in the trenches for 25 years? etc - you get what I mean.
While we have a Principal who supported Obama, when I asked what she thought about all this money supposed to be coming our way --- LIke me she said --- I will believe when I see it...
And I might add -- money will not really change anything...
throwing money at a problem will not make it go away.
There actually is an old motion picture titled "Teachers" starring Nick Nolte as a teacher in an inner city, dying school, who cares and decides to fight the system. It is a good illustration of the garbage that goes on. There is this one business teacher who never speaks to the class. He reads the "Wall Street Journal" all day. On his desk are two stacks of paper, one stack where the student comes in and picks up the day's worksheet, and the other where the student places the completed worksheet on his way out the door.
Well, one day after three or four periods, with the students coming in, taking their worksheets, filling them out and placing them in the appropriate stack on the way out, one kid comes up, peeks behind the Wall Street Journal, and lo the teacher is graveyard dead, in full rigor as I recall, and has been sitting there dead with no one noticing because he never did anything while he was alive to indicate any difference.
I guess I don't understand why such schools don't horrify more parents into taking action
I don't believe many of these parents understand the value of education. They themselves have none and they survive. Also, there are quite a number of families where one parent works days and the other nights. You and I may say that the home parent should get a babysitter.....not so easily done when everyone is on the same back to school schedule. The working parent's boss will not allow "I have to pick up child's report card" as an excuse so they would lose a day's pay! I don't agree with the decision, but I understand why it was made by the parents.
Inner cities are a whole other world. Many places are not safe due to gang activities - - I know it sounds like a scene from a movie or the evening news but it really isn't. [We used to have to keep our eyes open for gang tags]
I think maybe that High Schools quitting on the kids is more unpatriotic than vice versa. Not all schools are this way. But when we start them off in Elementary in overcrowded classes and curriculum purchased by sycophants hammered by publisher lobbyists that is inadequate in its sequence and scope, and then force the teacher who didn't learn anything but the different philosophies of "education" - (the religious aspect of education) what do they in Washington expect?
That is more like the truth! In my experience, which is all I can speak for, when students don't meet the standards....the standards are lowered so that they do pass. Such a dis-service. If competent teachers cannot work with some students because others are being too disruptive, or because there are too many youngsters in a class room, the kids suffer.
In my opinion - and I'd welcome any other opinions or insights as well here - all of this in these inner cities has its roots in extreme poverty, gangs and drugs. After things beat you down long enough, one no longer has much fight left to keep getting up and fighting another day. That does carry over to teachers as well. When the city doesn't have the funds to repair and maintain the buildings, it's easy to slip into depression. Who can be happy teaching in a classroom with 2 broken windows, or shade which don't work. How do you get students to behave when some of the desks are broken or have parts missing...and that is supposing you have enough desks for each of the students assigned that period.
Watered Garden you're also right on with your comment. I saw that film, and that wasn't the only "right-on" scene in it.
Throwing money at the schools won't help. I agree. But assigning funds for specific purposes will go a long way toward helping. Spend what is necessary to fix out dated electrical or plumbing systems. Put on a new roof. Tear out the out-dated kitchen and replace it with more functional appliances and you'll have a better lunch program.
If there are sufficient funds for additional classrooms and teachers to staff them, the over crowding is removed making every teacher more effective.
Generally speaking throwing money at a problem doesn't do anything. "Throwing" implies [to me] not much care in what you're spending it on. But if one assesses the real needs and addresses those, you may be surprised how much of an improvement you can make.
In 1969, a loooong time ago, I did my student teaching at a high school on the fringe of towntown Indianapolis. The principal's name was Richard and the kids just called him "Big Daddy". BD was an assistant superintendent and the school was Harry E. Wood High School, replaced by a new building farther out from the city and given a new name. It was an old building and the powers that be were considering tearing it down when BD intervened and begged to start a junior high for the kids who lived in the neighborhood. That summer he himself scraped and painted the hallways, scrubbed and cleaned and inventoried. Any wandering youth was invited to help out - this is your new school, kid! He was actually written up in Readers' Digest once for his work at Wood High School.
By the time this wide eyed innocent suburbanite arrived, there was a high school, junior high, developmentally disabled wing, and 12 trade schools. Not every kid was going to college, see, but they should be able to at least earn a living; shoe repair, car repair, body shop, cooking school to name a few. They still had to keep up academically with the requirements, but they helped cook the school lunch, which for some of their peers was the only meal of the day. Big Daddy saw to it that "his" kids had at least one hot meal and got the funding for it wherever he could. Some of those kids would come in and for a dime a scoop buy mashed potatoes and gravy; two scoops was all they could afford. but it was comforting to have that.
I weighed 90 pounds and looked younger than most of my hulking high school students. My critic teacher was not much bigger. I saw her yell at a young man for wearing his black beret inside the building; didn't he know better than that? Grumbling to herself, she asked rhetorically, "Why do they wear those stupid black berets anyway?" "Oh, that's the Black Panther insignia." someone else told her. Yikes!
Big Daddy was a strict disciplinarian but entirely fair.
One time, I was trying to explain to a class of kids the difference between slang and standard English. "Now," I said, "if you talked for example to Big Daddy in the same slang you use when you talk with your friends, he might not understand you..."
"Oh, no ma'am, no ma'am!" one young lad exclaimed. "Big Daddy always understand you! He might beat your butt, but he understands!"
Big Daddy, like so many innovators, was not popular with the school board of Indy and moved on to be superintendent of some school system in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area.
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Watered Garden
I was exhausted Tuesday night and went to bed in the middle of the President's speech, but I hope those of you who listened to it in its entirety tell me he also addressed parents of school age children. Most if not all of us take (or took) an interest in our child's education. We strove to help them do well, and knew our kids and their needs as best we could.
What got me to thinking about this was Waysider's post about problems with the system; no busing, school lunch programs, other programs being cut. Here in Ohio, school districts are funded by state money but also by levies. There often isn't enough money to go around, and sometimes in my opinion it's not always proportioned equitably. Mr. Garden teaches in a primarily rural district; the majority of his students are farm kids.
He is required to stay after school on parent/teacher conference nights. How many parents do you think show up to discuss their children's grades, progress etc.? Usually none. If one or two do make an appearance, they are the ones whose kids do well.
Parental involvement ain't what it used to be, and as often as not, if the child misbehaves, the parent is outraged - at the teacher, not the child.
As far as the levies are concerned, we have several school districts here whose levies haven't passed. They are hurting. I can understand that this year, but not three or four years ago. It took three times on the ballot for our last levy to pass, and then only because there was a huge snowstorm the night before they voted, and the people who voted it down, in one tiny area of the district, got the worst of it and were stuck at home. The levy passed by 6 votes and the kids still have aides and ride buses. (I really think that is one instance of divine intervention).
The governor has a new education plan that I hope passes the legislature and works. It sounds really good and well thought out, eliminates the Ohio Graduation Test, and will also require higher standards of teachers. I hope we get it.
WG, who has voted for every school levy in every district she has ever lived in, whether she had a kid in school there or not!
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mstar1
That was pretty much the primary point of that entire section of the speech
Its a shame that people have to be told what is obvious, but your post amply illustrates why
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Watered Garden
I'm sorry I missed that. I agree so strongly with that and I hope and pray we can follow through and make that vision a reality.
I seem to remember hearing that in some state or other, parents can be fined if they skip these meetings. It might have been at least a proposal somewhere in Ohio, but I'm not sure. I actually think I heard it on Fox or read it on some conservative website that was having a snit fit about it, but if money is so important the parents feel they have to hang on to theirs and not help finance their child's education, it might be the only way to get their attention.
And this is not entirely a new problem: Back in 1969-70 during my brief stint as a teacher, I had a 15 year old farm boy student who sat in the back of the class, turned his desk around, and started out the window. The reason: His dad had announced that the day before his 16th birthday was his last day of school. He needed him to help work the farm and thought edjakashun was stoopid. The principal and I tried to talk him out of it to no avail. The man had nothing but contempt for the concept of a high school degree.
So Bubba sat in the back for the room for a few months and stared out the window and flatly refused to do anything else. I think he is one of the very very few kids I failed, and maybe the only kid. I felt like the real failing grade went to Dad.
WG
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krys
It wasn't always like this, but the last decade or so that I taught, there were fewer and fewer parents coming to Back to School Nights or to pick up their student's Report Card. The last two years I had fewer than 3 oar 4 parents come to homeroom to get the report card.
Then during the conference times scheduled for later that evening, I had perhaps a half dozen parents come to discuss things. I had between 103 and 120 students those years.
A face to face conference isn't always necessary and certainly I understand why parents could not come out in the evenings. Younger children at home (in a single parent home) in poor inner cities could make such evening visits impossible. But phone conferences work just as well many times. The only ones I ever had were ones I instituted myself!
I can't speak for the whole country as I taught in north Jersey as a rule, but there are many very serious problems facing all or nearly all of the public schools in this area. Poverty and parental lassitude are only a few of them. Many of the buildings are very old and need so much repair work, that IMHO it would be more cost effective to tear them down and start from scratch [but there is precious little land available in our cities now].
Also, IMHO in order to upgrade the curriculum, you would need to expand the school year. You cannot teach 250 days worth of chemistry, foreign language, science or math in 180 days. Fight the unions over that one.
I saw the problems and there are solutions I could suggest but they all cost money or go against the grain of the unions. I'm not anti-union necessarily - - if teachers have to work 200 days....pay them for 200 days.
If there is sufficient money given to the schools in ways they can use it [not only text books or equipment] it wouldn't take very long for this situation to turn around.
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Watered Garden
Extending the school year is on Gov. Strickland's agenda and Mr. Garden heartily agrees. Especially in years like this one, where they have had 7 calamity days (Hurricane Ike and then ice and snow later), the continuity of the class gets interrupted. He teaches introduction to business, accounting, business law (aka "street law"), software aps, and probably something else I can't remember. Especially the business law gets crunched.
I agree it's multifactorial and I agree it's imperative as a nation we get this stuff resolved. Everyone in this country needs to buckle down and get it right.
WG
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washn'wear
I think its an overall degradation in many areas...both parents and teachers...
I work in a Title I school...we have meth moms not PTA moms --
I sent my kid to a suburban school where it seemed strong and positive.
I since have had to pull him out and find alternative education....I was even told by a teacher in a class in his 10th grade, (20 of 24 flunking) it wasn't her fault...(this happened every year and the principal would not let me move my kid) --she was the char of the department for crying out loud.
I just foundout in our school district we actually contract with somebody to pick up and take home drunk TEACHERS!
So while parents of this younger era seem to be less accountable--so are the teachers.
These are strong arguments for the homeschooling communities...which when done well is great, and conversely when poorly - is unsuccessful ---JUST like schools.
In the case of my son, he became a target of reverse discrimination. In a largely hispanic and black school, the black principal of the 4 principals singled him and a couple of other students to constantly stearch them, their cars and generally disrupt their education. My son passed every drug test ever given to him, he has held down a job even over the summer when all his friends quit...He is gifted in math and still he was harassed almost every day. By the end of October, after my heart attack, I said enough was enough and we pulled him after the testing at the community college.
Oh and Krys -- you know what is sad... Here in New Mexico - you have to be a Level 3 teacher to make more than what we spend in inmates in one year...
I make less than what they spend on an inmate.
Talk about social priorities....
I think Sherriff Maricopa has it down--at least in Arizona they don't spend more on inmates than teachers!
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washn'wear
But I guess that's getting off topic...or maybe its complicated and Obama's comment was simplistic and out of touch and he was using guilt as leverage?
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Watered Garden
Where Mr. Garden teaches is pretty cool!
However, in the summers he works with his brother-in-law, who is self-employed as a landscape architect. For several summers they worked on the landscaping of the woman who was in charge of the State Board of Education under our former (yucky) governor. Mr. Garden told me he always wanted to leave a note on her door, asking her didn't she think it was ironic that he made more money cleaning out her flower beds than he does teaching.
WNW, I don't think that teacher should be allowed anywhere near a classroom. The Gov. of Ohio is wanting to address that problem, too, but probably will meet resistance from the OEA. And I think if teachers teach longer in the year, they should get paid more.
You definitely did the right thing pulling your son out! Sounds like he was smarter than the socalled educators there.
WG
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krys
I don't think this is off topic and I think if we considered all the factors we discussed here as well as others that pop into our heads in the coming months.....we can state that quitting high school would be quitting on your country. Not just the students, but the parents who can't be bothered....the teachers who don't care any more etc.
Look into the NEA the national teacher's union. Go search them and find out what they really really do! I had to pay them $48 every single paycheck [one can refuse to join unions in NJ but it's not easy or practical to work that way] That means $960 from me every year. There were about 112 teachers in my building so that comes to $107,520 from my school. There were 7 other schools in the district. This was one medium-sized city in NJ. Do the math.....How much do they [NEA] pull in each year and what do they spend it on???? I honestly do not know. I don't know how to find that kind of info. However I never saw a program for students or teachers come from them. now that is off topic, sorry
Anyway - if all these things could be addressed properly we would all become proud of our educational system and our students. If that doesn't lead to patriotism, then maybe it's time for me to leave the country and spend my last days in Costa Rica.
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mstar1
I dont have children but this is horrifying to me. I really dont care what peoples reasonings or excuses are ---- this is just beyond my ability to comprehend.
Like I said in the above post -I am glad Obama nailed the parents on responsibility, buts its a shame and incredibly sad that he even had to make a point of it. It should be the most obvious thing in the world.
Maybe this is an obvious question or maybe I live to much in a bubble - but Is this country really that f'ed up?
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krys
In my opinion, the educational system is, yes, I'm so sorry to state that.
There are several of us teachers here....give us the reins and time to figure it out...with the help of a few other professional individuals, and we would straighten it out so it worked a whole lot better!
I would love to take some of the things used in some of the better charter schools and put them all together. Wow!
My grandson is in kindergarten in a charter school in FL. They have uniforms, but they are liberal...several colors and they can be mixed and matched shirts and bottoms. Would you believe that as part of his phys ed program they are teaching him yoga and he [and the rest in his group who are studying it] love it. He even practices it at home because he wants to win a prize for who is the stillest!
I know that the private schools are totally different. I've taught in them. It is like night and day.
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krys
In fairness, I'm sure all schools in the country are not like the ones here in NJ. And, most of the suburban schools are better....some of them even excellent.
In California I know many schools are top notch. The same is true in NY State. I attribute those successes to a different state of mind in the community and also those states have Regents Exams which in most cases....students need to pass them in order to graduate.
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DaddyHoundog
Today - one of my very well behaved students was tired. I asked if he got much sleep. No--Later I asked if he had a place to go practice reading outloud...No - he has no room, and shares a couch with his cousin. We are very careful not to embarrass these children..it is not their fault.
One of my 3rd graders that is repeatedly suspended brought a bottle opener yesterday..but was holding it like brass knuckles. (weapon at school) -- He is proud that he "has a record"
MStar - I could tell you about the 5th grader that was sellling Machetes at lunch...YES stuffing 11" inch Machetes he stole from the flea market to sell at school. He had no intention of hurting anyone...this is how Mom and Dad make money...
While standing in line the last 30 seconds of the day...One of my 4th graders tells me about his "awnty" that bootlegs movies and sells em in the Mexican community before they have even hit the stores....
Or I could tell you how I have had to call Children Youth and Families when one of my sweet girls came in with strangle marks on her neck and a black eye after a snow day because on that day Her "Papa" said she was not running fast enough when they had to hurry somewhere.
I am telling you this because THIS is reality!!! You need to realize this stuff does happen and yes the teachers need to be better..NEA is a farce and yes parents need to be just that--- parents.
Statistically the amount of students in High School that have depression is very high...I have the book at work -- but it is close to 4 out of 20 if I can remember correctly.
Would you call those people unpatriotic..or if a kid is sick of sharing a 1 bedroom apartment with 7 other people so they leave--it is way way complicated. The upper middle class is less and less of teh population...hell Obama calls Dr.s middle class....
The thing is, these people I speak of had these problems long before Obama and I don't think he will be able to fix these kinds of problems...like Krys said.
Also, I happen to be an Advocate with the National Center for Learning Disabilities...a political lobbying group for education. I can tell you our country (USA) is not alone in our idiocy....It is globally a shame how students with Learning Disabilities are treated....in any country. EVEN JAPAN.
Posted by Washn'wear (Daddy's wife)
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Watered Garden
The kids with learning disabilities who take software aps at the school Mr. Garden teaches at get him for that class. He is proud of them; he is always telling me how well they are doing.
Even back in the dark ages when I was in high school there was this cookie cutter mentality.
Sometimes it seems to me that people have children and forget why they had them, or had NO idea what a chore it can be to raise one. Sprout gave me MinSprout for an overnight!!!! He comes over with medication and instructions; he has been having fever, nausea, and vomiting. Mommie Dearest took him to the ER and he has a bottle of Phenergan (promethazine). It's a liquid but when I looked it up on WebMD I got chills: Don't give to children under 2 and in children over 2 only for prolonged vomiting with a known cause!!!! I've taken this stuff and my oh my will it knock you on your butt!
I'm gonna lose this stuff. It would be way too easy to give a child a dose if he was annoying you and it is a RESPIRATORY DEPRESSANT!
No way is Mommie Dearest getting this dang back to quiet him down with.
And Mrs. Daddy I agree with you all the way, especially about the NEA.
WG
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Bramble
When my kids were little we lived in a big urban area. I volunteered in my kid's grade school for a couple years after teaching in rural Montana schools for seevral years. My kids did all right in the school, learned what they should--but there were just a handful of kids from families who expected their kids to behave and excel.
We moved back west mainly due to the schools. Here we were able to get the kids in a charter school with very high standards and a curriculum similar to private schools we could not afford--Latin, logic, political discourse, classics like Shakespeare.
They did have nearly an hour of homework a night, but by sophomore year they were easily a year or more ahead of the regular pubic schools.
Our highschool has a program with the local junior college, so my oldest is able to take dual credit classes at the junior college--highschool credit and college credit. The kid will enter college as a sophomore. The budget advantages are obvious--this is paid for through a school funding system. Plus, kid is not bored.
If we had not been able to move to an area where schools were better, I probably would have homeschooled. We were in a town with uniforms to keep out the gang colors, cops on campuses with dogs, check points etc, and a nearly 50% drop out rate.
I guess I don't understand why such schools don't horrify more parents into taking action.
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washn'wear
I know this is a dying topic, but I needed to write down what my thoughts are.
I think maybe that High Schools quitting on the kids is more unpatriotic than vice versa. Not all schools are this way. But when we start them off in Elementary in overcrowded classes and curriculum purchased by sycophants hammered by publisher lobbyists that is inadequate in its sequence and scope, and then force the teacher who didn't learn anything but the different philosophies of "education" - (the religious aspect of education) what do they in Washington expect?
How many principals know and use the What Works Clearinghouse
Do these sycophants actually listen to the teachers in the trenches for 25 years? etc - you get what I mean.
While we have a Principal who supported Obama, when I asked what she thought about all this money supposed to be coming our way --- LIke me she said --- I will believe when I see it...
And I might add -- money will not really change anything...
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Watered Garden
throwing money at a problem will not make it go away.
There actually is an old motion picture titled "Teachers" starring Nick Nolte as a teacher in an inner city, dying school, who cares and decides to fight the system. It is a good illustration of the garbage that goes on. There is this one business teacher who never speaks to the class. He reads the "Wall Street Journal" all day. On his desk are two stacks of paper, one stack where the student comes in and picks up the day's worksheet, and the other where the student places the completed worksheet on his way out the door.
Well, one day after three or four periods, with the students coming in, taking their worksheets, filling them out and placing them in the appropriate stack on the way out, one kid comes up, peeks behind the Wall Street Journal, and lo the teacher is graveyard dead, in full rigor as I recall, and has been sitting there dead with no one noticing because he never did anything while he was alive to indicate any difference.
WG
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krys
from Branble:
I don't believe many of these parents understand the value of education. They themselves have none and they survive. Also, there are quite a number of families where one parent works days and the other nights. You and I may say that the home parent should get a babysitter.....not so easily done when everyone is on the same back to school schedule. The working parent's boss will not allow "I have to pick up child's report card" as an excuse so they would lose a day's pay! I don't agree with the decision, but I understand why it was made by the parents.
Inner cities are a whole other world. Many places are not safe due to gang activities - - I know it sounds like a scene from a movie or the evening news but it really isn't. [We used to have to keep our eyes open for gang tags]
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krys
Washn'wear:
That is more like the truth! In my experience, which is all I can speak for, when students don't meet the standards....the standards are lowered so that they do pass. Such a dis-service. If competent teachers cannot work with some students because others are being too disruptive, or because there are too many youngsters in a class room, the kids suffer.
In my opinion - and I'd welcome any other opinions or insights as well here - all of this in these inner cities has its roots in extreme poverty, gangs and drugs. After things beat you down long enough, one no longer has much fight left to keep getting up and fighting another day. That does carry over to teachers as well. When the city doesn't have the funds to repair and maintain the buildings, it's easy to slip into depression. Who can be happy teaching in a classroom with 2 broken windows, or shade which don't work. How do you get students to behave when some of the desks are broken or have parts missing...and that is supposing you have enough desks for each of the students assigned that period.
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krys
Watered Garden you're also right on with your comment. I saw that film, and that wasn't the only "right-on" scene in it.
Throwing money at the schools won't help. I agree. But assigning funds for specific purposes will go a long way toward helping. Spend what is necessary to fix out dated electrical or plumbing systems. Put on a new roof. Tear out the out-dated kitchen and replace it with more functional appliances and you'll have a better lunch program.
If there are sufficient funds for additional classrooms and teachers to staff them, the over crowding is removed making every teacher more effective.
Generally speaking throwing money at a problem doesn't do anything. "Throwing" implies [to me] not much care in what you're spending it on. But if one assesses the real needs and addresses those, you may be surprised how much of an improvement you can make.
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Watered Garden
In 1969, a loooong time ago, I did my student teaching at a high school on the fringe of towntown Indianapolis. The principal's name was Richard and the kids just called him "Big Daddy". BD was an assistant superintendent and the school was Harry E. Wood High School, replaced by a new building farther out from the city and given a new name. It was an old building and the powers that be were considering tearing it down when BD intervened and begged to start a junior high for the kids who lived in the neighborhood. That summer he himself scraped and painted the hallways, scrubbed and cleaned and inventoried. Any wandering youth was invited to help out - this is your new school, kid! He was actually written up in Readers' Digest once for his work at Wood High School.
By the time this wide eyed innocent suburbanite arrived, there was a high school, junior high, developmentally disabled wing, and 12 trade schools. Not every kid was going to college, see, but they should be able to at least earn a living; shoe repair, car repair, body shop, cooking school to name a few. They still had to keep up academically with the requirements, but they helped cook the school lunch, which for some of their peers was the only meal of the day. Big Daddy saw to it that "his" kids had at least one hot meal and got the funding for it wherever he could. Some of those kids would come in and for a dime a scoop buy mashed potatoes and gravy; two scoops was all they could afford. but it was comforting to have that.
I weighed 90 pounds and looked younger than most of my hulking high school students. My critic teacher was not much bigger. I saw her yell at a young man for wearing his black beret inside the building; didn't he know better than that? Grumbling to herself, she asked rhetorically, "Why do they wear those stupid black berets anyway?" "Oh, that's the Black Panther insignia." someone else told her. Yikes!
Big Daddy was a strict disciplinarian but entirely fair.
One time, I was trying to explain to a class of kids the difference between slang and standard English. "Now," I said, "if you talked for example to Big Daddy in the same slang you use when you talk with your friends, he might not understand you..."
"Oh, no ma'am, no ma'am!" one young lad exclaimed. "Big Daddy always understand you! He might beat your butt, but he understands!"
Big Daddy, like so many innovators, was not popular with the school board of Indy and moved on to be superintendent of some school system in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area.
WG
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