uh....I dunno...its either because they dont have an original thought in their heads or because they are convinced its still the right way to do things.
Personally I cant think of much in this world thats more useless than someone who wants me to subscribe to their audio tapes
Being in a Recovery group after being in TWI for 13 years.....My new found purpose is to be of service to others, not to "Move the Word". It's a life changing concept....to help others and I might add the most fulfilling purpose I have had.
Why are all those twi splinter groups "teaching ministries?" I know it's been said that "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"..........but if they want to put their own brand on it, why is it boxed the same?
Could it be........that this is the fast track to funneling the money in?
Could it be........that home fellowships afford the best profit margin, the most control?
Could it be........that these guys like the uppermost seats of honor and adulation?
Could it be........that knowledge puffeth up and the perks are better?
Could it be........that a comfy desk and nearby pulpit is inviting to the 60-something crowd?
Could it be........that a scam is a scam is a scam?
The main problem is the doctrine the rightly dividing of God´s Word, the commitment to It is written!
And that you help the people giving them the Word the they have to believe.
In my first foundational class one of the other students was a diabetic homeless woman
who ask for money at the door of the catholic church of the neigbourghood a very poor one. She has no legs. She really was in bad conditions, dirty, the class did not change her life she dies a few months later.
But she born again. And now she is waiting the return of Jesus Christ.
Why are all those twi splinter groups "teaching ministries?" I know it's been said that "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"..........but if they want to put their own brand on it, why is it boxed the same?
Could it be........that this is the fast track to funneling the money in?
Could it be........that home fellowships afford the best profit margin, the most control?
Could it be........that these guys like the uppermost seats of honor and adulation?
Could it be........that knowledge puffeth up and the perks are better?
Could it be........that a comfy desk and nearby pulpit is inviting to the 60-something crowd?
Could it be........that a scam is a scam is a scam?
I am not too familar with the offshoots. I went to see JAL speak once at a friends house, and it was too up close and personal for me. I have a long memory and I have seen his less than gentle side at work. Besides, there was this hyperactive almost unhinged vibe. . . with a plastic smile stuck on for good measure. It was shortly after we left and I was learning to trust my own instincts. It reeked of TWI.
What I wonder is if any of these offshoots have praise or worship, in the more traditional meaning? Not just "manifestations" which are fairly rigid.
Is any of their "outreach" service or community orientated? It is difficult to do this when you don't think of yourself as a servant, but as elite.
What always breaks my heart is that those of us who left, have such a difficult time finding a home within the church. We sit at a distance in our own groups. I know why this is, but if we let controversial doctrine separate us. . . are we truly one body?
I don't think it is an intentional scam. . . I really don't. It is just a different doctrine, teaching, understanding, and faith.
This is just my opinion, which means little. . . . but it is centered around teaching because this faith is centered around a book. The words in the book. The private interpretation of the meaning. This constantly has to be reinforced.
It is faith in a book and one's understanding of the book. Hence, the constant teaching.
That is just my take.
Teaching and learning are a big part of the Christian life, but it so much more than that, and service is not to a paticular group, but to our fellow man. That just might mean those of a different faith. It gets messy sometimes, you have to get in there with the downtrodden, prisoners, and hurting. We actually have to roll up our sleeves and feed and clothe and possibly wash some feet! :)
All the while expecting nothing in return. Not even a signed green card. Funny how the love bombing stopped when the class was over. Real genuine.
I don't know. . . but if the teaching ceased for awhile. . . what would be left? Fellowship within the same small groups? Isolation?
People might actually read the book and see for themselves what it means, without someone constantly telling them "no" it just says that, it means this!
Just my opinion. Others may vary or have valid points from their own perspective. This is from mine.
I am not too familar with the offshoots. I went to see JAL speak once at a friends house, and it was too up close and personal for me. I have a long memory and I have seen his less than gentle side at work. Besides, there was this hyperactive almost unhinged vibe. . . with a plastic smile stuck on for good measure. It was shortly after we left and I was learning to trust my own instincts. It reeked of TWI.
What I wonder is if any of these offshoots have praise or worship, in the more traditional meaning? Not just "manifestations" which are fairly rigid.
Is any of their "outreach" service or community orientated? It is difficult to do this when you don't think of yourself as a servant, but as elite.
geisha.....I do not know of any twi offshoots who have praise and worship services, at least not in the since that churches do. There are so many offshoots out there its hard to say.....with each passing decade, the splinters are splintering. Heck, from what I understand about the geer group, it seems like there are more and more leaders distancing themselves from geer's classes and fees ......thus subdivisions branching out under the "geer umbrella."
Teaching and learning are a big part of the Christian life, but it so much more than that, and service is not to a paticular group, but to our fellow man. That just might mean those of a different faith. It gets messy sometimes, you have to get in there with the downtrodden, prisoners, and hurting. We actually have to roll up our sleeves and feed and clothe and possibly wash some feet! :)
All the while expecting nothing in return. Not even a signed green card. Funny how the love bombing stopped when the class was over. Real genuine.
I don't know. . . but if the teaching ceased for awhile. . . what would be left? Fellowship within the same small groups? Isolation?
People might actually read the book and see for themselves what it means, without someone constantly telling them "no" it just says that, it means this!
Just my opinion. Others may vary or have valid points from their own perspective. This is from mine.
From what I see, these splinter groups are NOT a part of their community....no associations with fellow pastors, service groups, mission shelters, food charities, etc. Like twi, these splinter groups embellish the "zion" aspect of staying fortified and set apart.......it builds their illusion of elitism.
All roads lead to teaching........because it's the essence of their "job responsibility." They want it that way, because it's the EASY WAY. Plus, it's the ROAD MOST TRAVELED......... the pavement is smooth, the traveling is easy........and mostly, one-person-per-car.
Service-oriented projects take WORK..........lots of work. Communication, organization, rallying a work force, time commitments, physical involvements and/or risk, hours and hours on your feet, etc. etc.
And yeah.......if their TEACHINGS and CLASSES are to get the individual to higher learning .........WHY IS THERE NOT A PLATEAU OF UNDERSTANDING WHERE THE INDIVIDUAL CAN NOW READ IT FOR HIMSELF/HERSELF?
Service-oriented projects take WORK..........lots of work. Communication, organization, rallying a work force, time commitments, physical involvements and/or risk, hours and hours on your feet, etc. etc.
not to mention work, but MONEY. And usually lots of it, to really do it "big time".
could it be.. operate without providing any real basic service, outside of selling books and running meetings to take donations..
not to mention work, but MONEY. And usually lots of it, to really do it "big time".
could it be.. operate without providing any real basic service, outside of selling books and running meetings to take donations..
is just running with far less overhead?
Yeah.....it's very similar to those MLM systems.
The "big guys"......the deal-closers......stay in their offices while the newbies peddle the product, bring in family and friends and co-workers, and spend time/money to get to this reward platform. At the meeting, there are smiles.....and small talk.... and a couple of personal testimonies. But.....THE VIDEO......shows the product, shows the benefits, shows the way to financial success......THE VIDEO IS MESMERIZING.
Where are the foot-washers?
Where are the men who risk life and limb to stand for the power of God?
Where are the George Muellers who start an orphanage of 150-190 kids....to prove that God's love and power will intervene time and time again to help this undertaking of believing God daily?
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rascal
Because they aren`t Christian?
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skyrider
Yet........everyone has a psalm, a doctrine and a TEACHING TAPE to send you.
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waysider
I think it must be like those cement yard geese that people dress up.
Same goose---different outfit.
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Tzaia
You can't go any further than what you are taught.
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waysider
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skyrider
Are there no more John Wesleys or George Muellers in the world..?
<_<
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Twinky
A "service ministry" would entail thinking about other people.
Maybe even doing something for other people (gasp).
Maybe even coming into contact with the great unwashed, the poor, the needy (big gasp).
And maybe finding out what you "teach" has little practical value.
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cheranne
I think "The Writing Machine" says it best in his book Stealing Wings from an Angel on page 33
basically they are "clown fish in there own anemone" except there NOT they are Fish Clowns!
You gotta read this book and see it thru the eyes of a child growing up in cult life and dealing with
the after effects.
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Bolshevik
Oh, I don't have that one. . .
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waysider
I thought the jester get-up was appropriate.
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Ham
maybe that's all they were taught..
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mstar1
uh....I dunno...its either because they dont have an original thought in their heads or because they are convinced its still the right way to do things.
Personally I cant think of much in this world thats more useless than someone who wants me to subscribe to their audio tapes
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newlife
GREAT QUESTION-----GREAT POST!!!!
Being in a Recovery group after being in TWI for 13 years.....My new found purpose is to be of service to others, not to "Move the Word". It's a life changing concept....to help others and I might add the most fulfilling purpose I have had.
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Kevlar2000
In light of our TWI and life experiences, perhaps that statement could be amended to read,
"If you believe you can't go any further than what you are taught, then you won't go any further than what you are taught."
(Thanks Tzaia for reminding us of that subtle untruth.)
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JeffSjo
That sounds about right to me Skyrider.
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skyrider
Or........"If you continue to repeat the same mistakes that twi taught....you will slide down the same slippery slope."
Isn't there a "definition for insanity like (paraphrased).....'Insanity is repeating the same process over and over expecting a different outcome.'
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Kevlar2000
I think it's attributed to Albert Einstein - "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
If I were to give these "splinter" groups any advice (which I don't usually care to do) it would be -
Do something else.
Like service ministries. What a novel concept. Not.
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cheranne
To bad there isn't a splinter group for healing for all the splinter groups! So people say oh get over the
"victim" role but
we are" we write and continue to expose TWI and all the other BS unfiltered "waybrain crap"..I think
splinters try to filter it
but, there is just to much Residue at the bottom of that pipe!
that the same chain reaction continues...repeating the same process over and over expecting a differant outcome.
Get the Tweezers!!!
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themex
The main problem is the doctrine the rightly dividing of God´s Word, the commitment to It is written!
And that you help the people giving them the Word the they have to believe.
In my first foundational class one of the other students was a diabetic homeless woman
who ask for money at the door of the catholic church of the neigbourghood a very poor one. She has no legs. She really was in bad conditions, dirty, the class did not change her life she dies a few months later.
But she born again. And now she is waiting the return of Jesus Christ.
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geisha779
I am not too familar with the offshoots. I went to see JAL speak once at a friends house, and it was too up close and personal for me. I have a long memory and I have seen his less than gentle side at work. Besides, there was this hyperactive almost unhinged vibe. . . with a plastic smile stuck on for good measure. It was shortly after we left and I was learning to trust my own instincts. It reeked of TWI.
What I wonder is if any of these offshoots have praise or worship, in the more traditional meaning? Not just "manifestations" which are fairly rigid.
Is any of their "outreach" service or community orientated? It is difficult to do this when you don't think of yourself as a servant, but as elite.
What always breaks my heart is that those of us who left, have such a difficult time finding a home within the church. We sit at a distance in our own groups. I know why this is, but if we let controversial doctrine separate us. . . are we truly one body?
I don't think it is an intentional scam. . . I really don't. It is just a different doctrine, teaching, understanding, and faith.
This is just my opinion, which means little. . . . but it is centered around teaching because this faith is centered around a book. The words in the book. The private interpretation of the meaning. This constantly has to be reinforced.
It is faith in a book and one's understanding of the book. Hence, the constant teaching.
That is just my take.
Teaching and learning are a big part of the Christian life, but it so much more than that, and service is not to a paticular group, but to our fellow man. That just might mean those of a different faith. It gets messy sometimes, you have to get in there with the downtrodden, prisoners, and hurting. We actually have to roll up our sleeves and feed and clothe and possibly wash some feet! :)
All the while expecting nothing in return. Not even a signed green card. Funny how the love bombing stopped when the class was over. Real genuine.
I don't know. . . but if the teaching ceased for awhile. . . what would be left? Fellowship within the same small groups? Isolation?
People might actually read the book and see for themselves what it means, without someone constantly telling them "no" it just says that, it means this!
Just my opinion. Others may vary or have valid points from their own perspective. This is from mine.
Edited by geisha779Link to comment
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skyrider
geisha.....I do not know of any twi offshoots who have praise and worship services, at least not in the since that churches do. There are so many offshoots out there its hard to say.....with each passing decade, the splinters are splintering. Heck, from what I understand about the geer group, it seems like there are more and more leaders distancing themselves from geer's classes and fees ......thus subdivisions branching out under the "geer umbrella."
From what I see, these splinter groups are NOT a part of their community....no associations with fellow pastors, service groups, mission shelters, food charities, etc. Like twi, these splinter groups embellish the "zion" aspect of staying fortified and set apart.......it builds their illusion of elitism.
All roads lead to teaching........because it's the essence of their "job responsibility." They want it that way, because it's the EASY WAY. Plus, it's the ROAD MOST TRAVELED......... the pavement is smooth, the traveling is easy........and mostly, one-person-per-car.
Service-oriented projects take WORK..........lots of work. Communication, organization, rallying a work force, time commitments, physical involvements and/or risk, hours and hours on your feet, etc. etc.
And yeah.......if their TEACHINGS and CLASSES are to get the individual to higher learning .........WHY IS THERE NOT A PLATEAU OF UNDERSTANDING WHERE THE INDIVIDUAL CAN NOW READ IT FOR HIMSELF/HERSELF?
<_<
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Ham
Service-oriented projects take WORK..........lots of work. Communication, organization, rallying a work force, time commitments, physical involvements and/or risk, hours and hours on your feet, etc. etc.
not to mention work, but MONEY. And usually lots of it, to really do it "big time".
could it be.. operate without providing any real basic service, outside of selling books and running meetings to take donations..
is just running with far less overhead?
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skyrider
Yeah.....it's very similar to those MLM systems.
The "big guys"......the deal-closers......stay in their offices while the newbies peddle the product, bring in family and friends and co-workers, and spend time/money to get to this reward platform. At the meeting, there are smiles.....and small talk.... and a couple of personal testimonies. But.....THE VIDEO......shows the product, shows the benefits, shows the way to financial success......THE VIDEO IS MESMERIZING.
Where are the foot-washers?
Where are the men who risk life and limb to stand for the power of God?
Where are the George Muellers who start an orphanage of 150-190 kids....to prove that God's love and power will intervene time and time again to help this undertaking of believing God daily?
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waysider
While we're discussing MLM's-----
Who Sells The Soap?
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...c=10920&hl=
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