So, I'm sure this is in the wrong section but I've been invited to...

[Brushstroke]

...a Spirit & Truth Fellowship International meeting.

I was in my communications class today and Afsaneh, a good friend of mine, and I were talking about where we each go to church. She said her family and Brittany's family, another friend of ours who always sits right around near me and a row down in the giant classroom, always have a home fellowship on Tuesday and Thursday nights. She was really enthusiastic about it. I asked what it was and what she was affiliated with, and I immediately recognized the name from here. I said I'd attend tomorrow night, so I'll stick to my word, but I just wanted to know what you guys think. What should I expect? For those of you who were in STFI or a similar offshoot, what were your experiences there?

Edited February 17, 2009 by Brushstroke

[rascal]

I haven`t been to a fellowship, spouse gets their materials though. They will undoubtedly be just lovely to you ...I am sure that they will be enthusiastic about their product. They will be genuine in their enthusiasm....

But so was twi....and that is where stfi has it`s roots... I have heard that there are some good folks involved, I have heard of some really bad folks...

There are sub forums at the top of the page that tell of a lot of the drama that has been going on there in the last couple of years....it ain`t pretty.

[dmiller]

Hey there Phil --- listen to Rascal. :)

[Ham]

I'd straight up ask them about the lawsuits and prophecy fiasco.. and wouldn't accept how "we don't air our dirty laundry for Jesus' sake" or some such nonsense..

of course if they are merely "affililated" with stfi.. they might not even KNOW about any of this..

might end up just being merely a harmless bible fellowship..

But it might be a good history lesson.. very likely, unless they stray into relm of nose spiders and the really biazarre, you will witness practically exactly how a way fellowship was conducted in the seventies through the nineties, along with a demonstration of how da way taught and practiced tongues with interpretation and prophecy. They will EXPECT you to be dazzled..

I'd remember two words: love bombing..

[WordWolf]

What should you expect?

Coverups of "Momentus" and "personal prophecy."

Check out our subforum for specifics.

They're the "high-pressure salesmen" of the ex-twi "family."

[Ham]

and.. very likely, *they* (or whoever runs the thing) will be ready for YOU.. you very well may find yourself facing a pure stranger who somehow suddenly knows quite a bit about you.. little personal things you may have related to your "friends" in class..

[Bolshevik]

Locate all exit routes and position yourself accordingly.

[Tzaia]

I haven't attended a CES home fellowship in a while - more than 10 years. I did attend a leader's conference in 2004. They've definitely done a shift away from TWI and have more of an assemblies of god feel regarding worship.

I don't know what to tell you - you are an adult and can make your own choices. I used to think that CES was pretty innocuous, especially compared to TWI, but I don't think that anymore.

My main concern is that you appear to be a bit of a magnet.

[batcave]

"Locate all exit routes and position yourself accordingly." Bolshevik, I'm laughing and shaking my head. That's exactly what I told myself at the very first TWI meeting I went to. Seriously, if they still have the "we have more true word than anything else going" and you're okay with that, have fun. I got to where I couldn't hang with the elitist attitude and harmful coverups.

But be careful, nevertheless.

[Brushstroke]

My main concern is that you appear to be a bit of a magnet.

Yeah, I know... It's kind of funny in a way.

But I just got back from the fellowship. It was...interesting.

I definitely noticed the love-bombing, and before everyone got there and everything started going on, I was talking with Chris, Brittany's brother, and we were discussing our backgrounds. I mentioned that I'm an Orthodox Christian, and he said he wasn't quite familiar with it and I didn't really go too much into what I believe and how it may differ, but he seemed to generalize and say that "we're all part of the one body of Christ and I think that doctrine matters, but we think each group has a bit of the truth and learns from each other..." etc. I didn't comment. A few songs were sung, mainly contemporary Christian music that you might hear on the radio, and the teaching was...vague. I gathered that it was about not trying too hard to follow God and realizing that Christ summed up everything in two commandments, "Love God, and love your neighbor." I certainly agree with that, but in part of the teaching they referred to Colossians 1:15 and said that, "He's not God, He's the image of God. But if God came to earth...it'd be Him...God would look like Jesus." I suddenly thought, "Well, that's a dodgy interpretation." I also heard a brief mention of some youth meeting where John Schoenheit taught, and of "abundant sharing."

During dinner, before the lesson, I was talking with another person there, Matthew. He was saying how when he found this fellowship, he was home. He had finished his search and had found where he wanted to be, and I heard very similar words from others there. Later on, after the fellowship was over, Matt and I were talking outside about a few things, and I found it pleasing to talk to him, as he was very willing to discuss common objections to STFI/CES. The main objection, he said, is their unitarianism. I mentioned that, as a staunch trinitarian, this was indeed an objection of mine, and we discussed our agreements -- the primary of which is the overarching importance of the Resurrection. He also wished to gain my perspective on various things, and he's certainly open to exploring my faith in return for me taking time to glimpse theirs.

Overall, although I definitely noticed a few things that made me think, "Something's not quite right...," I had a nice time and it gave me an interesting glimpse into the way things are done in TWI/STFI/CES. Would I go again? Maybe, maybe not.

[Bolshevik]

There was dinner?

[Brushstroke]

There was dinner?

Yup.

[Bolshevik]

what's "the lesson"? Is that what they say at churches?

twi never said "the lesson"

to my knowledge

Edited February 18, 2009 by Bolshevik

[Brushstroke]

what's "the lesson"? Is that what they say at churches?

twi never said "the lesson"

to my knowledge

They didn't use the word "lesson," they used the word "teaching." I just said lesson as I thought it conveyed the same meaning and that you would get what I meant anyway.

[Bolshevik]

teaching makes more sense

"teaching",

that word makes me vibrate . . .

[Tzaia]

Brush - you here in Indy? The names sounded familiar.

What "Matt" was talking about concerning Jesus is the concept of Jesus, in his exalted state, having a "functional equality" with God. It is very similar to the "economic trinity" of some trinitarian believers.

Doctrine matters - a lot. The reason why they aren't attending a local church is that doctrine matters. It matters more than the 2 greatest commandments when it comes right down to it.

To the rest of you - the dinner thing is not all that uncommon. These guys work, socialize, eat, and live with each other.

[waysider]

I'm not sure why but it reminds me of

old song by The Stones

[TrustAndObey]

Overall, although I definitely noticed a few things that made me think, "Something's not quite right...," I had a nice time and it gave me an interesting glimpse into the way things are done in TWI/STFI/CES. Would I go again? Maybe, maybe not.

There's that magnet of yours turned on again... "Maybe/Maybe not.." Yikes... Sounds like you're looking for the other magnet searchers to just turn the right neon lights on and you'd be coming.

Personally, I'd stay away from any group that doesn't allow you to hold your "OWN" thoughts that are different than theirs AND allow you to voice those said objections at any point in time, including during the 'teaching/lesson"..

Else.. Just another darn cult if I ever saw one...

I often wonder what the first century would have been like had the synagogues been as closed off like most churches and cults today. It's a complete rarity today, and I do mean, extremely rare, where you could walk into a church or a "bible study/fellowship" and share your thoughts that contradict their doctrine.. Yeah, just doesn't quite exist much these days.. And then.. I think back to what the scriptures say Paul did back in Acts..

"On the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent a message to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of encouragement for the people, say it. So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said: “Men of Israel and you who fear God, listen...."

or

"Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed."

or

"They came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.”

Interesting, how even after the first time of letting this guy come in and share "something different" then the Jews believed, was still allowed to come and speak again!

What ever happened to this openness, this honesty? Personally, I think most Christian churches and cults are scared someone might actually persuade someone concerning truth! God forbid, someone else might be more right!!

Ahhh well, that's why I say, unless they allow you openly share different thoughts, I'd count them as scared little cult sheep huddling around their cult leaders.

But you know.. I could be wrong! So I welcome any "differing" thoughts! Maybe I'll actually learn something other than one denomination/cult's agenda.

[Twinky]

Overall, although I definitely noticed a few things that made me think, "Something's not quite right...," I had a nice time and it gave me an interesting glimpse into the way things are done in TWI/STFI/CES.

Brushie, TWI as you know teaches there is only one God, our Father; and Jesus is a human being, a man, just like you except that he was divinely conceived. He was not God, he was not around before he was born, he isn't God now. We ex-Wayfers all believed that at one time and some of us still do. Some of us have espoused trinitarian teaching; and some state they don't believe any of it. This shouldnl't be a surprise to you.

TWI never had "lessons" - just "teachings."

Whate else happened that made you thing that something's not right? Can you verbalize it (or more precisely, write it)?

You may meet some very nice people. They probably have a great heart for God. Stay at low levels and you will probably enjoy it. If there is any pressure to "take the class," whatever class they are offering - run.

[Ham]

or if there is a systematic method of bible study, designed to break down your "illogical" beliefs..

"I staunchly believe in the trinity" is almost like marking yourself with a bullseye for some wayers and ex-wayers..

a lot of these groups inherit the vicster's intolerance and opinion that many adherants to the trinity are "possessed of devils".. too blinded to understand their "truth"..

they really think.. that if one is "compromised" enough to believe it, they've given up their free will..

that very well may be the undercurrent you will find yourself dealing with..

Edited February 18, 2009 by Ham

[JeffSjo]

You remind me of one thing Ham!

Wierwille said that in order to really believe in the Trinity someone had to be possessed.

Dear Brushstroke,

I'm wondering how they'd respond to you asking them if they feel that is true. You could say,"Am I possessed because I believe in the Trinity like Wierwille said?" But you seem to more than capable of deciding how you want to handle it to me.

[geisha779]

You remind me of one thing Ham!

Wierwille said that in order to really believe in the Trinity someone had to be possessed.

Dear Brushstroke,

I'm wondering how they'd respond to you asking them if they feel that is true. You could say,"Am I possessed because I believe in the Trinity like Wierwille said?" But you seem to more than capable of deciding how you want to handle it to me.

No, they will probably tell him he is "Doing the best he can" with his limited understanding. Or, think him "Misguided" in his beliefs. They may tell him he doesn't really "understand" what he believes. . . they can "Help" him.

Come on, it is kinder and more gentle now.

Christians are no longer possesed. . . . they are just too stupid to see it the "right" way.

Edited February 18, 2009 by geisha779

[Cynic]

I figure their psilanthropic teachers and polemicists could do some rather Christ-less expositions and moralizing from biblical passages, and carry on a pseudo-hermeneutical boogie till the break of day.

[GarthP2000]

... then again, according to _some_ trinitarians I _could_ name ;), Unitarians (socinian or otherwise :unsure: ) are just too stupid to see it the "right" way.

And thus, ... the beat goes on, ... (and the beat goes on) .........

[geisha779]

... then again, according to _some_ trinitarians I _could_ name ;), Unitarians (socinian or otherwise :unsure: ) are just too stupid to see it the "right" way.

And thus, ... the beat goes on, ... (and the beat goes on) .........

Well, given you have been my hero in the "innocent" thread. . . I just think you are very smart. . . whatever you believe. . . or don't! :)