Yes, I really agree with you that had they not lied to the HS they would have been fine. I also agree that some Christians can be worldly and new to the faith.
God certainly is merciful to us when this is the case, and He does work in us to strip that worldliness from us. If we belong to Him. To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— I guess I see it differently, but not entirely. These chapters are really building up to the persecution of the church while it is expanding. There are two forms of distress illustrated for us. . . persecution from without and trouble from within.
What I see is Barnabas, who later travels with Paul, is he was changed from the inside outward. This is reflected in his act of wholehearted giving. Barnabas knew that the Holy Spirit was alive and real. They had just witnessed pentecost. Barnabas' integrity became well known in the early church. He was the one who won John Mark back to Paul. So we do know that from this very first act, Barnabas was a true believer.
A&S were examples of those who were trying to look the same, but the change was not genuine. Hypocrisy. They concieved this plan and it doesn't say it was out of fear. In fact, Peter said Satan filled their heart.
Think about the scriptures concerning those in the church who are false teachers. They love the praise of men more than the praise of God, external religious approval. There are reasons A & S might do this thing. They might not have even believed in the real presence of the Spirit of the living God. They could have believed in a intellectual way, but didn't understand he knew the thoughts of their mind. They may not have realized that He is a person who knows, feels, and acts on things. They may have counted on a "Grace" where God tolerates everything no matter how bad.
I think the reason it was recorded was so we would have the example of both kinds of people in the church. It is interesting to note that God tolerated and used the pressure from the outside to cause the church to grow, but did not tolerate it from the inside. Two reactions to the church from this. . . more true believers were added to the church and the rest dared not join themselves to the church.
Acts 5:32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.
A&S actually stand for the exact opposite. . . people who have not really been changed in their hearts, but still want a place in the church. It isn't real to them.. . . it is external.
Anyway, that is what I see. :)
I agree with you that there are some people who do nothing but control. Not only do they want to run their ministry but they want to control yours as well. Some people that I know today unfortunately desire the praise of men rather than God. In fact, I think they have mistakenly thought that they were God. Geez! Do I think that A&S were believers? Yes I do. As I said before, they were hanging out with the others and I know corrupt fruit can hang with the good fruit too. I just think they were too worldly. While the text doesn't state their status, if they indeed were giving away their only land/house I think there would have been fear involved with it as well.
It is also interesting that you note the difference between the pressures on the church from both the inside and the outside. Could you imaging how fast some of the churches would clean out of nominal believers if the HS did this to a few? <_<
I've enjoyed reading your input on this topic and today I've been considering the point that Geisha brought up about satan being in Ananias' heart from the text and it really got me thinking about how this situation might have been like for Peter.
#1 Peter was there when the other person that I'm aware of that it was spoken of that satan entered his heart, Judas Iscariot. And Judas betrayed the Lord to the authorities.
#2 The Lord said to Peter's face, "Get thee behind me satan" when Peter was insisting that the Lord not go through with the crucifixion.
All in all it seems to me that it was clearly available for Peter to understand these things a lot deeper than some who just run off at the mouth and misuse the harder things in the scriptures unto their own destruction. It doesn't seem to me that it makes much difference if the false teachers talk about "real devils" or "satan" in somebodie's heart. But coming from Peter this is the kind of thing that had hit Peter pretty hard before the record of Ananias and Saphira.
I think that Peter was by this time absolutely and completely thankful that the Lord Himself had told him that even though satan desired to sift him like wheat the Lord Himself would intercede on his behalf. And I bet that nobody on earth ended up understanding these things better than Peter himself.
I'm betting that for anyone who has suffered trouble for the truth's sake there are many Bible stories that they can relate too, I think that is a big part of the reason why so many stories are written down.
In TWI one of the main problems seems to have been that the man in charge only painted that kind of picture of himself and for him, teaching folks that he could relate to the Bible stories only served to help him manipulate and abuse many young women and men.
As concerning this thread I had a "LORD HAVE MERCY" moment yesterday. And it goes something like this.....
What if those of us who have wished that the Lord did to Wierwille what He did to Ananias and Saphira are now the same one's who refuse to acknowledge that in the record in Acts the Lord may have actually stopped something from happening that was actually worse than TWI.
With my views of the scriptures it is only natural for me to look for wisdom and power in the things that are recorded that the Lord did. At the very least I would hope that someone who doesn't agree with me would at least be willing to consider this version that I'm sharing is at least a valid possibility, or give me a sound reason why it could not have been for the reasons that I'm posting here.
The same greed was present when this was written here in Acts as there is today.
Acts 5 presents Peter and more as bastards who treat anyone like this.
Yeah, sell your stuff and give us the money has been around for a long time. And here is an attempt to put it as scripture or the word of god in the bible.
It's a threat, an intimidation tactic by whoever wrote this.
Well, Peter, it's none of your business what I sold anything for and whatever I give you, you should be thankful for. Even if my wife and I did lie.
Besides Peter should help A & S rather then TAKING their money and watching them die.
Besides Peter should help A & S rather then TAKING their money and watching them die.
But no 'true believers' ever run _that_ through their heads now, do they?
<_<
But hey, if GOD does this kind of abuse, then it _has_ to be regarded as Righteous now, doesn't it? Shut yer face, and don't _dare_ speak a word against the HS. ...
... See this is the kind of crap that was but one BIG reason why I dumped this kind of fundy mindset. And the 'god' that goes along with it. And I'll tell ya what, if God doesn't like what I'm posting (which should be regarded _at least_ as 'wicked' as what A&S did), well then, he can take my a** right now. ......
The same greed was present when this was written here in Acts as there is today.
Acts 5 presents Peter and more as bastards who treat anyone like this.
Yeah, sell your stuff and give us the money has been around for a long time. And here is an attempt to put it as scripture or the word of god in the bible.
It's a threat, an intimidation tactic by whoever wrote this.
Well, Peter, it's none of your business what I sold anything for and whatever I give you, you should be thankful for. Even if my wife and I did lie.
Besides Peter should help A & S rather then TAKING their money and watching them die.
Religion--Christianity included--has a long and bloody history of 'death to the unbeliever.'
The thought, idea, permission has to start somewhere.
I think this section of scriptiures is just such a starting place. Death for unbelief portrayed as a righteous act. And apparantly many Christians accept it as right and godly.
Religion--Christianity included--has a long and bloody history of 'death to the unbeliever.'
The thought, idea, permission has to st.art somewhere.
I think this section of scriptiures is just such a starting place. Death for unbelief portrayed as a righteous act. And apparantly many Christians accept it as right and godly.
It wasn't death for their unbelief....but they suffered the consequences for their lies to the Holy Spirit. They had the right to not sell, no one was forcing them or coercing them in any way. This was a free will action on their part. They could have chosen to sell it and then keep the whole amount, which is exactly what Peter told them. So he asks A&S "why have you lied to the HS?" They didn't have to....this is the whole point and IMO the only point.
Have to just edit this now: Also, UNBELIEVERS have a long and bloody history as well. If you're going to give the full paint brush treatment, then make sure you use the wide one to cover all of earth's history.
But no 'true believers' ever run _that_ through their heads now, do they?
<_<
But hey, if GOD does this kind of abuse, then it _has_ to be regarded as Righteous now, doesn't it? Shut yer face, and don't _dare_ speak a word against the HS. ...
... See this is the kind of crap that was but one BIG reason why I dumped this kind of fundy mindset. And the 'god' that goes along with it. And I'll tell ya what, if God doesn't like what I'm posting (which should be regarded _at least_ as 'wicked' as what A&S did), well then, he can take my a** right now. ......
Faked ya out! ... Got ya going there for a minute, ... didn't I?
;)
Again, they weren't speaking AGAINST the HS, they simply LIED TO HIM. Which they didn't have to, because no one was coercing them to give money or sell their land/house. They by their own free will chose to sell it, but then lied.
If they had only just spoken the TRUTH about the sell price and given as they so desired, they wouldn't have died like they did.
Based on the logic of this interpretation, Wierwille should have been incinerated by a lightning bolt the first time he told the gas pump stowwrey. If the snow pump story was true, then it serves to demonstrate Wierwille was lying to God when he agreed to teach things that hadn't been known since buttons were invented. (Because he did not follow through on that agreement.) Thus, God would have stricken him dead for such a blatant lie to The Holy Spirit..
It wasn't death for their unbelief....but they suffered the consequences for their lies to the Holy Spirit. They had the right to not sell, no one was forcing them or coercing them in any way. This was a free will action on their part. They could have chosen to sell it and then keep the whole amount, which is exactly what Peter told them. So he asks A&S "why have you lied to the HS?" They didn't have to....this is the whole point and IMO the only point. ...
Again, they weren't speaking AGAINST the HS, they simply LIED TO HIM. Which they didn't have to, because no one was coercing them to give money or sell their land/house. They by their own free will chose to sell it, but then lied.
If they had only just spoken the TRUTH about the sell price and given as they so desired, they wouldn't have died like they did.
Whether they lied to Him or not is irrelevant to the point that I and others here are trying to get across. The point that the "HS killed them" in the first place is what we're focusing on. ... Ok, so they lied to him. Naughty, naughty! ... But you don't have the frikkin' death penalty for lying, fer crying out loud. And then for that kind of punishment to be illustrated as some sort of Righteous Judgement of a Holy God takes the cake, ... for an abuse based belief!
I can just imagine your reaction if this was some Islamic story about 2 people lying to Allah, and then being beheaded by Mohammad for it. "Why, how _horrible_!! How could those cruel, pagan worshipping Muslims be that way? ... Christianity is s-o-o much kinder and loving and forgiving." ... yadayadayada <_<
Yeah, who cares if people die? Who cares if there is no justice? Who cares! Human life is cheap! Obey your damm leadership, people. That's what is of UTMOST importance--the authority of the one true church! Don't you even dare to THINK a wrong thought. Look what happened to A&S. Destruction, death, despair, oh my. It Could be you next!
I suspect you haven't read this thread since you don't know who A&S are. Sheesh. And yes, I am aware that people die. If you'd bothered to read the thread perhaps you could contribute on topic--all here know that humans die, that is not what we are discussing..
Yeah, who cares if people die? Who cares if there is no justice? Who cares! Human life is cheap! Obey your damm leadership, people. That's what is of UTMOST importance--the authority of the one true church! Don't you even dare to THINK a wrong thought. Look what happened to A&S. Destruction, death, despair, oh my. It Could be you next!
or even one instance of lie to the hs-except acts 5.......
not any where but acts 5
I don't think there is cman. There is the account in Matthew 12 about blasphemy against the HS. I am not sure that is even possible today, as it was done when Jesus was on earth. It is interesting that blasphemy against Jesus, will be forgiven, but not against the HS.
Not really too sure about this account. I think it is attributing the works of Jesus done by the power of the HS to the devil. It is pretty strong language anyway.
30"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come,"
That is the other one I thought of indicating the HS and sins against Him.
I’m interested in exploring this account from another angle - an assumption I entertained over the years (whether on my own or influenced by the twi I can’t recall now).
Were Ananias & Sapphira actually killed by their own conscience?
I read somewhere that a “bad conscience” is in actuality a “good conscience” or one that is functioning.
But a bad conscience – without a ‘release” like “repentance” - can also eat away a person’s insides. Might even – without the release of “confession” (whether to a psychiatrist or a priest or even to a friend) and “forgiveness” have an overall negative effect on one’s physical, mental and emotional health (perhaps recent studies regarding the “god brain” or mankind’s evolutionary need for religion may be worth reviewing in this light).
If such be a possibility, then it’s likely (at least in my opinion) that A&S had harbored a “bad conscience” or self-condemnation over the source of their intense guilt for quite some time prior to their encounter with Peter or the Holy Spirit, who had merely opened their eyes to what was already killing them. In my crummiest Jack Nicholson impersonation - they "couldn't handle the truth".
But this take does not feel entirely satisfactory. Had Peter taken a gentler tact with them,
could he have led A&S to forgiveness and healing?
Afterall Peter had once upon a time denied (or lied about knowing) the Lord 3 times.
Though his “release” at the time was that he “wept bitterly” over these actions.
I-Dan, I was looking at another segment of Acts today, 8:22, the record of Simon and Peter (and John, etc.) A similar idea came to mind. There Peter is witten to have told Simon (after he's offered money for the power of "laying on of hands")...
For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
Some seriously bad cha-cha, for sure, there. Bond of iniquity could be translated "bound by bad judgment" or "bound by unrighteousness", injustice, a wrong judgment. It's like saying he wasn't just wrong, he was really wrong, and rather bilious in the wrongness.
Frank Zappa was once interviewed about his various band members over the years and one of his bass players came up. Some of the band members were out performing under the old "Mothers of Invention" banner and calling the act The Grandmothers or something, a fact he took umbrage at. Can't remember the guy's name, he had a nickname - anyway he'd been out working with Leo Sayer, on the road. Zappa implied that might not be the highest quality music gig and commented "that'll do things to a guy after awhile y'know? So he's not the same guy he was with Mothers of Invention, and won't be without me waving the wand over it" Words to that effect, classic Zappa. And certainly playing an endless series of one-nighers doing "You Make Me Feel Like Dancing" behind a guy in a clown's outfit would do things to you for sure, maybe not good things.
Anyhoo-what we do and think and what we harbor inside does indeed "do things" to us. Gall, bile, bad decisions - left untended could very well have a negative effect on us over time, methinks. You could be on to something there. Ana and Saph - "filled" as they were with whatever it was - couldn't have been a good thing.
Is this any worse than Old Job who lost his entire family because of a bet between Satan and God?? I mean shooore God gave him a new family and prosperity when it was all over and he had passed muster...it`s all good right?? I mean ...who the hell cares about the other wife and kids....except MAYBE the other wife and kids??
It never occurred to me to doubt the validity of a&s, just the application of it by dishonest men...but the whole job scenario has bugged me as well.
It never occurred to me to doubt the validity of a&s, ...
Ya know, the thought of doubting any scriptural accounts never occurs to a lot of people, ... until they take that fateful step, ... and voila!, ... amazing the things one learns. :)
Hells bells, now that we know about fish or whales, or sharks physiology, the Jonas story doesn`t make much sense either.
I read a book where the archeologist said that many of our bible stories are variations of texts found in sumeria I think, that the judean prisoner/scholars were required to translate ...that they in turn took these stopries back and it became part of their lore.
I am thinking in particular, the tower of babel, and the flood story.
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brideofjc
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brideofjc
Nothing like living it for yourself, is there?
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JeffSjo
I'm betting that for anyone who has suffered trouble for the truth's sake there are many Bible stories that they can relate too, I think that is a big part of the reason why so many stories are written down.
In TWI one of the main problems seems to have been that the man in charge only painted that kind of picture of himself and for him, teaching folks that he could relate to the Bible stories only served to help him manipulate and abuse many young women and men.
___________________________________________________
As concerning this thread I had a "LORD HAVE MERCY" moment yesterday. And it goes something like this.....
What if those of us who have wished that the Lord did to Wierwille what He did to Ananias and Saphira are now the same one's who refuse to acknowledge that in the record in Acts the Lord may have actually stopped something from happening that was actually worse than TWI.
With my views of the scriptures it is only natural for me to look for wisdom and power in the things that are recorded that the Lord did. At the very least I would hope that someone who doesn't agree with me would at least be willing to consider this version that I'm sharing is at least a valid possibility, or give me a sound reason why it could not have been for the reasons that I'm posting here.
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cman
The same greed was present when this was written here in Acts as there is today.
Acts 5 presents Peter and more as bastards who treat anyone like this.
Yeah, sell your stuff and give us the money has been around for a long time. And here is an attempt to put it as scripture or the word of god in the bible.
It's a threat, an intimidation tactic by whoever wrote this.
Well, Peter, it's none of your business what I sold anything for and whatever I give you, you should be thankful for. Even if my wife and I did lie.
Besides Peter should help A & S rather then TAKING their money and watching them die.
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GarthP2000
But no 'true believers' ever run _that_ through their heads now, do they?
<_<
But hey, if GOD does this kind of abuse, then it _has_ to be regarded as Righteous now, doesn't it? Shut yer face, and don't _dare_ speak a word against the HS. ...
... See this is the kind of crap that was but one BIG reason why I dumped this kind of fundy mindset. And the 'god' that goes along with it. And I'll tell ya what, if God doesn't like what I'm posting (which should be regarded _at least_ as 'wicked' as what A&S did), well then, he can take my a** right now. ......
..... ((cough)) ... ughh .....
(((choke))) .... AAAGGGHHHHhhhhh........
...
...
...
...
;)
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waysider
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Bramble
Religion--Christianity included--has a long and bloody history of 'death to the unbeliever.'
The thought, idea, permission has to start somewhere.
I think this section of scriptiures is just such a starting place. Death for unbelief portrayed as a righteous act. And apparantly many Christians accept it as right and godly.
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brideofjc
It wasn't death for their unbelief....but they suffered the consequences for their lies to the Holy Spirit. They had the right to not sell, no one was forcing them or coercing them in any way. This was a free will action on their part. They could have chosen to sell it and then keep the whole amount, which is exactly what Peter told them. So he asks A&S "why have you lied to the HS?" They didn't have to....this is the whole point and IMO the only point.
Have to just edit this now: Also, UNBELIEVERS have a long and bloody history as well. If you're going to give the full paint brush treatment, then make sure you use the wide one to cover all of earth's history.
Again, they weren't speaking AGAINST the HS, they simply LIED TO HIM. Which they didn't have to, because no one was coercing them to give money or sell their land/house. They by their own free will chose to sell it, but then lied.
If they had only just spoken the TRUTH about the sell price and given as they so desired, they wouldn't have died like they did.
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waysider
Based on the logic of this interpretation, Wierwille should have been incinerated by a lightning bolt the first time he told the gas pump stowwrey. If the snow pump story was true, then it serves to demonstrate Wierwille was lying to God when he agreed to teach things that hadn't been known since buttons were invented. (Because he did not follow through on that agreement.) Thus, God would have stricken him dead for such a blatant lie to The Holy Spirit..
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GarthP2000
Whether they lied to Him or not is irrelevant to the point that I and others here are trying to get across. The point that the "HS killed them" in the first place is what we're focusing on. ... Ok, so they lied to him. Naughty, naughty! ... But you don't have the frikkin' death penalty for lying, fer crying out loud. And then for that kind of punishment to be illustrated as some sort of Righteous Judgement of a Holy God takes the cake, ... for an abuse based belief!
I can just imagine your reaction if this was some Islamic story about 2 people lying to Allah, and then being beheaded by Mohammad for it. "Why, how _horrible_!! How could those cruel, pagan worshipping Muslims be that way? ... Christianity is s-o-o much kinder and loving and forgiving." ... yadayadayada <_<
But _your_ God (HS) does it, ... and no problemo.
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Bramble
Death is the correct consequence for lieing to the holy spirit??? Does this sound in any way just or even reasonable to you? Really?
And what about the Father god--is this the act of a loving father? Death?
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cman
i don't know of any other record like this
lie to the holy spirit or god=death?
or even one instance of lie to the hs-except acts 5.......
not any where but acts 5
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Bolshevik
death began in Genesis as a result of rebellion. If God kills someone for any reason, who cares? Everyone is going to die someday anyway.
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Bramble
Yeah, who cares if people die? Who cares if there is no justice? Who cares! Human life is cheap! Obey your damm leadership, people. That's what is of UTMOST importance--the authority of the one true church! Don't you even dare to THINK a wrong thought. Look what happened to A&S. Destruction, death, despair, oh my. It Could be you next!
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Bolshevik
what's A&S?
death comes regardless, bramble.
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Bramble
I suspect you haven't read this thread since you don't know who A&S are. Sheesh. And yes, I am aware that people die. If you'd bothered to read the thread perhaps you could contribute on topic--all here know that humans die, that is not what we are discussing..
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GarthP2000
... goosestep ... goosestep ... goosestep ... goosestep goosestep goosestep goosestep goosestepgoosestepgoosestepgoosestepgoosestepgoosestepgoosestepgoosestep ........
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geisha779
I don't think there is cman. There is the account in Matthew 12 about blasphemy against the HS. I am not sure that is even possible today, as it was done when Jesus was on earth. It is interesting that blasphemy against Jesus, will be forgiven, but not against the HS.
Not really too sure about this account. I think it is attributing the works of Jesus done by the power of the HS to the devil. It is pretty strong language anyway.
30"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come,"
That is the other one I thought of indicating the HS and sins against Him.
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TheInvisibleDan
I’m interested in exploring this account from another angle - an assumption I entertained over the years (whether on my own or influenced by the twi I can’t recall now).
Were Ananias & Sapphira actually killed by their own conscience?
I read somewhere that a “bad conscience” is in actuality a “good conscience” or one that is functioning.
But a bad conscience – without a ‘release” like “repentance” - can also eat away a person’s insides. Might even – without the release of “confession” (whether to a psychiatrist or a priest or even to a friend) and “forgiveness” have an overall negative effect on one’s physical, mental and emotional health (perhaps recent studies regarding the “god brain” or mankind’s evolutionary need for religion may be worth reviewing in this light).
If such be a possibility, then it’s likely (at least in my opinion) that A&S had harbored a “bad conscience” or self-condemnation over the source of their intense guilt for quite some time prior to their encounter with Peter or the Holy Spirit, who had merely opened their eyes to what was already killing them. In my crummiest Jack Nicholson impersonation - they "couldn't handle the truth".
But this take does not feel entirely satisfactory. Had Peter taken a gentler tact with them,
could he have led A&S to forgiveness and healing?
Afterall Peter had once upon a time denied (or lied about knowing) the Lord 3 times.
Though his “release” at the time was that he “wept bitterly” over these actions.
Dan
edited for spelling
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socks
I-Dan, I was looking at another segment of Acts today, 8:22, the record of Simon and Peter (and John, etc.) A similar idea came to mind. There Peter is witten to have told Simon (after he's offered money for the power of "laying on of hands")...
For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
Some seriously bad cha-cha, for sure, there. Bond of iniquity could be translated "bound by bad judgment" or "bound by unrighteousness", injustice, a wrong judgment. It's like saying he wasn't just wrong, he was really wrong, and rather bilious in the wrongness.
Frank Zappa was once interviewed about his various band members over the years and one of his bass players came up. Some of the band members were out performing under the old "Mothers of Invention" banner and calling the act The Grandmothers or something, a fact he took umbrage at. Can't remember the guy's name, he had a nickname - anyway he'd been out working with Leo Sayer, on the road. Zappa implied that might not be the highest quality music gig and commented "that'll do things to a guy after awhile y'know? So he's not the same guy he was with Mothers of Invention, and won't be without me waving the wand over it" Words to that effect, classic Zappa. And certainly playing an endless series of one-nighers doing "You Make Me Feel Like Dancing" behind a guy in a clown's outfit would do things to you for sure, maybe not good things.
Anyhoo-what we do and think and what we harbor inside does indeed "do things" to us. Gall, bile, bad decisions - left untended could very well have a negative effect on us over time, methinks. You could be on to something there. Ana and Saph - "filled" as they were with whatever it was - couldn't have been a good thing.
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cman
I can see where a person's mental state could trigger a heart attack.
That's about all I could see the mind killing you.
Unless it's by killing yourself with some sort of weapon.
To lie to God or the Holy Spirit seems contradictory to me.
Cause they would be talking to each other.
There is a place that says whatever you do to them you do to me.
Said by Jesus Christ in a parable.
Of course this happens all the time.
Lie cheat steal and worse.
It just looks fabricated because of no love.
Fear being spread, and about the way money is shown here.
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rascal
Is this any worse than Old Job who lost his entire family because of a bet between Satan and God?? I mean shooore God gave him a new family and prosperity when it was all over and he had passed muster...it`s all good right?? I mean ...who the hell cares about the other wife and kids....except MAYBE the other wife and kids??
It never occurred to me to doubt the validity of a&s, just the application of it by dishonest men...but the whole job scenario has bugged me as well.
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GarthP2000
Ya know, the thought of doubting any scriptural accounts never occurs to a lot of people, ... until they take that fateful step, ... and voila!, ... amazing the things one learns. :)
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rascal
Hells bells, now that we know about fish or whales, or sharks physiology, the Jonas story doesn`t make much sense either.
I read a book where the archeologist said that many of our bible stories are variations of texts found in sumeria I think, that the judean prisoner/scholars were required to translate ...that they in turn took these stopries back and it became part of their lore.
I am thinking in particular, the tower of babel, and the flood story.
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