This thread is an attempt to help those who still believe that because of TWI that they are "more than conquerors." Or those who think that TWI produced the most capable believers of all time. Or those who feel that their Way Corps training alone made them God's best. Or those who feel that because they were taught to manipulate and to destroy the misfits and malcontents they are winners...... etc. etc.
</snip>
yes! it's been such a relief to not have to seem perfect all the time, or have to explain where I "missed it" when something "wrong" happened, then feeling bad and guilty for not "living up to the standard". it's nice to just be human, and a slightly crazy one at that.
It's hard to talk to wayfers because you have to question they're belief system, the "organization", and the mogs. I think the image of their mogs are directly connected to their own ego, or, "perception of excellence". If the mog is imperfect, so are they. If the "organization" is corrupt, so are they. If the system is BS, . . .
I've been reading through the reformation lately. And on both sides (Catholic and Protestant) their drive, scholarship, commitment, and bravery makes TWI and my splinter group laughable in comparison.
I've been reading through the reformation lately. And on both sides (Catholic and Protestant) their drive, scholarship, commitment, and bravery makes TWI and my splinter group laughable in comparison.
How is it that we believed we were world beaters?
Most capable believers of all time, yeah right!
(edited for Grammar)
Jeff,
You should read some Martyr stories. . . that will put it in perspective reeeeaaaaal fast. I am speaking of martyrs in this past century. Really, it will make you consider what real faith is. . . powerful.
This book is for teens, but I could barely get through it.
The contemporary Christian music group dc Talk has reached thousands of teens worldwide with their music. Richard Wurmbrand and The Voice of the Martyrs have reached thousands both young and old with the message of today’s persecuted church.
dc talk and VOM bring you Jesus Freaks: Stories of Those Who Took a Stand for Jesus—a collection of worldwide testimonies, targeting teens across America with the message of the uncompromising persecuted church. Many of the almost 150 personal testimonies and quotes were taken from VOM archives.
Teens in your youth group, home or community will come face to face with a conquering Savior who is able to carry them through any situation in life. Just as Christ called us to reach all nations, we are also to teach all generations what it means to live for Christ.
I don't understand why people joined twi. I don't understand why they point fingers so much at a handful of people. Why they play dumb, why they lie about not knowing twi had problems . . . so and so forth.
Bolshevik, you have to understand. Many of us were around 17 ...many of us came from disfunctional broken homes with no adult to guide us. Speaking for myself, I had basically had to raise myself because my mom was overwhelmed with the 4 young children that she was left to raise.
We were lonely, divorce placed us as somehow flawed and broken back then. My family story was the same as almost all of my twi friends...I think lonely teens were targeted.
You were invited to a bible fellowship...a bible fellowship for heavens sake...who would have known that there was something wrong with that??
All of a sudden, you had people that cared about you, irresistable to someone whom was starving for affection, you had a new better family...a family with a father that would never leave you. You had someone to lovingly guide you....You had a mission, a purpose in life, God needed you on the front lines spiritually. You were important, somebody needed you, there was a noble cause to fight for. It was exhilerating.
Teens were told that you didn`t need a wordly education, you needed to be spiritually sharp to fight for God, yadda yadda...and these are maybe the first people in your life that have taken an interest in you ... So we didn`t go to college, we went wow and into the corpes...quickly seperated from anyone outside of twi....
The people were incredible, I didn`t care what made them so strong, kind, wise, peaceful, I just wanted what they had.
No, there were no warning signs...not for me anyway, it seemed a wholesome and healthy group and I was thankful.
As a teenager or young adult away at college...as in the case of my spouse...you don`t have a lot of life skills to recognize the danger signs...when you see them eventually (you were carefully protected for a while) you tend to have been taught by then, good sounding spiritual reasons to ignore what your 5 senses are telling you. By the time you reach adulthood...you have had all of your molding...forming of your reasoning processes in twi...you don`t realize that you are not thinking right.
The occasional thing that raised an eye brow, was dismissed as a particular person that messed up....Nobody guessed it was rotten to the core ...until you got close enough to see it ...and that took years.
I think that is why people have such a difficult time believing it today...unless they saw it personally.
Bolshevik, I really hope that you were genuine in your question as to why and not just pointing your finger at the rest of us for being so stupid or believing that the abuse and cruelty was something we embraced. I cannot change your perception of us as stupid or evil, or whiners....but I need to tell you in all honesty, that this just wasn`t the case. We were lonely kids that thought we had found lifes answeres in a world that had already treated us brutally.
Tens of thousands of us left when we saw the true nature of the beast. Many of us wrestled with the consequences of leaving the ministry that we loved and had spent our lives promoting, knowing that all of the bullies were the ones being placed into position over peoples lives....that for some reason they were trying to run off anybody who was kind or decent....and we saw what happened when the good folks were no longer in place, standing in the gap so to speak between hq and the rest of the people.......the evil that the rank and file believers rarely saw came crashing down on them.
We did the only thing we could do, tell as many people what we had seen and why we had top go.
Edited to add: I started a new topic, because I think this is worth exploring.
duped? but there were warnings? it's like drugs, people know they shouldn't, but they do. right?
For me the "clear" warnings did not occur until the letters started circulating. There were things that I most certainly did not like, such as being blamed for our baby's illness because we hadn't been doing our 15%, and being told that "anything" was ok if it got people in "the word". When I found out what I was experiencing was not isolated, but was pervasive throughout the organization - it was easy to leave. There are bunches of us who left our druggy pasts, stopped smoking, and stopped screwing around once we were found by TWI (I didn't seek it out). It's one thing to look the other way when isolated people are doing those things, but quite a different story when it is not only sanctioned, it is touted as a sign of spiritual maturity.
Later, when I found out that corp and leadership children were being exposed to pornography under the guise of "teaching," I realized that the corp had been nothing more than intense grooming to be used by or become predators.
It is very apparent that the ones who have suffered and lost the most were the ones who went corp, especially the women and children, which is ironic given that we were all led to believe they would receive the most rewards.
It is very apparent that the ones who have suffered and lost the most were the ones who went corp, especially the women and children, which is ironic given that we were all led to believe they would receive the most rewards.
Yeah............the exploitation, the loss of opportunity, the years of productive life, the abuse...ALL are in direct proportion to THE LONGER ONE STAYED WITH TWI.
I would agree that corps women were most vulnerable, but would add that the emasculating of corps men also had devastating, and abusive, ramifications. The alpha male syndrome of the wierwille cult had an abusive effect.....down thru the ranks, down thru the wolf pack.....biting and devouring one another.
Much like the domestic abuse that arises from hardcore military men.........the corps environment embellished the same trends, the same escalation. Of course, this is most pronounced in the corps ranks......THAT is where wierwille totted his "top prize"....his "highest praise".....his "top-pick promotions." I don't know the corps divorce ratios, but would wager to say that it triples the divorce rate in non-corps ranks.
Wierwille's legacy of "greatness"......is most deeply defined and DEBUNKED.......in the corps program.
Bolshevik, I really hope that you were genuine in your question as to why and not just pointing your finger at the rest of us for being so stupid or believing that the abuse and cruelty was something we embraced. I cannot change your perception of us as stupid or evil, or whiners....but I need to tell you in all honesty, that this just wasn`t the case. We were lonely kids that thought we had found lifes answeres in a world that had already treated us brutally.
. . .
Lonely kids join gangs. Then they start shooting each other.
I don't run into any lonely kids. I keep hearing about them though.
The network of individuals who worked in unison to keep me under their control, were not lonely kids.
Lonely kids join gangs. Then they start shooting each other.
I don't run into any lonely kids. I keep hearing about them though.
The network of individuals who worked in unison to keep me under their control, were not lonely kids.
. . .
True Bol, gangs weren`t an option 30 years ago for many of us. The ones that joined twi wanted to be good people....We were told that they had all of the answers to life and Godliness....that they could teach us how to be pleasing to God...
The lonely damaged kids I referred to grew into the disfunctional adults that kept you under control. We were distanced from any whom might provide balance, we allowed these people to form our impressions and beliefs, trusting them to be the christians that would help us find peace, healing, a purpose in life that we had never had in our outside lives.
The people that held you under control.... were damaged pure and simple.
Lonely kids join gangs. Then they start shooting each other.
I don't run into any lonely kids. I keep hearing about them though.
The network of individuals who worked in unison to keep me under their control, were not lonely kids.
. . .
A little venting that seems to fit your post at least a little Bolshevik.
If I'm ever a big enough tool that I can be talked into deliberately leaving someone like me completely alone without support, just F'in shoot me somebody, please!
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potato
yes! it's been such a relief to not have to seem perfect all the time, or have to explain where I "missed it" when something "wrong" happened, then feeling bad and guilty for not "living up to the standard". it's nice to just be human, and a slightly crazy one at that.
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JeffSjo
Speaking strictly for myself Potato..... ^_^
MWWWAAAHHH HA HA HA!
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potato
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Bolshevik
It's hard to talk to wayfers because you have to question they're belief system, the "organization", and the mogs. I think the image of their mogs are directly connected to their own ego, or, "perception of excellence". If the mog is imperfect, so are they. If the "organization" is corrupt, so are they. If the system is BS, . . .
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frank123lol
Sick,Hey Banard,get a life,your little cult and all,it is not worth squat.
At least I did not get involved in a splinter,came close Kevin gig@2
told me I was disruptive,I replied you do not know me quit listening to other perceptions.
jeff,it is all about perspective,as you now see for yourself.
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JeffSjo
I've been reading through the reformation lately. And on both sides (Catholic and Protestant) their drive, scholarship, commitment, and bravery makes TWI and my splinter group laughable in comparison.
How is it that we believed we were world beaters?
Most capable believers of all time, yeah right!
(edited for Grammar)
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
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geisha779
Jeff,
You should read some Martyr stories. . . that will put it in perspective reeeeaaaaal fast. I am speaking of martyrs in this past century. Really, it will make you consider what real faith is. . . powerful.
This book is for teens, but I could barely get through it.
https://www1.vombooks.com/qry/qe_store.taf?...53574db7a565e55
Jesus Freaks
dc Talk & The Voice of the Martyrs
The contemporary Christian music group dc Talk has reached thousands of teens worldwide with their music. Richard Wurmbrand and The Voice of the Martyrs have reached thousands both young and old with the message of today’s persecuted church.
dc talk and VOM bring you Jesus Freaks: Stories of Those Who Took a Stand for Jesus—a collection of worldwide testimonies, targeting teens across America with the message of the uncompromising persecuted church. Many of the almost 150 personal testimonies and quotes were taken from VOM archives.
Teens in your youth group, home or community will come face to face with a conquering Savior who is able to carry them through any situation in life. Just as Christ called us to reach all nations, we are also to teach all generations what it means to live for Christ.
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rascal
Bolshevik, you have to understand. Many of us were around 17 ...many of us came from disfunctional broken homes with no adult to guide us. Speaking for myself, I had basically had to raise myself because my mom was overwhelmed with the 4 young children that she was left to raise.
We were lonely, divorce placed us as somehow flawed and broken back then. My family story was the same as almost all of my twi friends...I think lonely teens were targeted.
You were invited to a bible fellowship...a bible fellowship for heavens sake...who would have known that there was something wrong with that??
All of a sudden, you had people that cared about you, irresistable to someone whom was starving for affection, you had a new better family...a family with a father that would never leave you. You had someone to lovingly guide you....You had a mission, a purpose in life, God needed you on the front lines spiritually. You were important, somebody needed you, there was a noble cause to fight for. It was exhilerating.
Teens were told that you didn`t need a wordly education, you needed to be spiritually sharp to fight for God, yadda yadda...and these are maybe the first people in your life that have taken an interest in you ... So we didn`t go to college, we went wow and into the corpes...quickly seperated from anyone outside of twi....
The people were incredible, I didn`t care what made them so strong, kind, wise, peaceful, I just wanted what they had.
No, there were no warning signs...not for me anyway, it seemed a wholesome and healthy group and I was thankful.
As a teenager or young adult away at college...as in the case of my spouse...you don`t have a lot of life skills to recognize the danger signs...when you see them eventually (you were carefully protected for a while) you tend to have been taught by then, good sounding spiritual reasons to ignore what your 5 senses are telling you. By the time you reach adulthood...you have had all of your molding...forming of your reasoning processes in twi...you don`t realize that you are not thinking right.
The occasional thing that raised an eye brow, was dismissed as a particular person that messed up....Nobody guessed it was rotten to the core ...until you got close enough to see it ...and that took years.
I think that is why people have such a difficult time believing it today...unless they saw it personally.
Bolshevik, I really hope that you were genuine in your question as to why and not just pointing your finger at the rest of us for being so stupid or believing that the abuse and cruelty was something we embraced. I cannot change your perception of us as stupid or evil, or whiners....but I need to tell you in all honesty, that this just wasn`t the case. We were lonely kids that thought we had found lifes answeres in a world that had already treated us brutally.
Tens of thousands of us left when we saw the true nature of the beast. Many of us wrestled with the consequences of leaving the ministry that we loved and had spent our lives promoting, knowing that all of the bullies were the ones being placed into position over peoples lives....that for some reason they were trying to run off anybody who was kind or decent....and we saw what happened when the good folks were no longer in place, standing in the gap so to speak between hq and the rest of the people.......the evil that the rank and file believers rarely saw came crashing down on them.
We did the only thing we could do, tell as many people what we had seen and why we had top go.
Edited to add: I started a new topic, because I think this is worth exploring.
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Tzaia
For me the "clear" warnings did not occur until the letters started circulating. There were things that I most certainly did not like, such as being blamed for our baby's illness because we hadn't been doing our 15%, and being told that "anything" was ok if it got people in "the word". When I found out what I was experiencing was not isolated, but was pervasive throughout the organization - it was easy to leave. There are bunches of us who left our druggy pasts, stopped smoking, and stopped screwing around once we were found by TWI (I didn't seek it out). It's one thing to look the other way when isolated people are doing those things, but quite a different story when it is not only sanctioned, it is touted as a sign of spiritual maturity.
Later, when I found out that corp and leadership children were being exposed to pornography under the guise of "teaching," I realized that the corp had been nothing more than intense grooming to be used by or become predators.
It is very apparent that the ones who have suffered and lost the most were the ones who went corp, especially the women and children, which is ironic given that we were all led to believe they would receive the most rewards.
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skyrider
Yeah............the exploitation, the loss of opportunity, the years of productive life, the abuse...ALL are in direct proportion to THE LONGER ONE STAYED WITH TWI.
I would agree that corps women were most vulnerable, but would add that the emasculating of corps men also had devastating, and abusive, ramifications. The alpha male syndrome of the wierwille cult had an abusive effect.....down thru the ranks, down thru the wolf pack.....biting and devouring one another.
Much like the domestic abuse that arises from hardcore military men.........the corps environment embellished the same trends, the same escalation. Of course, this is most pronounced in the corps ranks......THAT is where wierwille totted his "top prize"....his "highest praise".....his "top-pick promotions." I don't know the corps divorce ratios, but would wager to say that it triples the divorce rate in non-corps ranks.
Wierwille's legacy of "greatness"......is most deeply defined and DEBUNKED.......in the corps program.
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JeffSjo
The more that I hear from you guys the more I am amazed at how damaging a false perception of excellence has been.
Be great-----be abusive.
Be great.....castrate others.
Be great.....teach children to suck your d_ck.
Be great.....divorce your spouse.
For me, this stuff is still hard to take in sometimes, for me like right now. :(
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Bolshevik
Lonely kids join gangs. Then they start shooting each other.
I don't run into any lonely kids. I keep hearing about them though.
The network of individuals who worked in unison to keep me under their control, were not lonely kids.
. . .
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rascal
True Bol, gangs weren`t an option 30 years ago for many of us. The ones that joined twi wanted to be good people....We were told that they had all of the answers to life and Godliness....that they could teach us how to be pleasing to God...
The lonely damaged kids I referred to grew into the disfunctional adults that kept you under control. We were distanced from any whom might provide balance, we allowed these people to form our impressions and beliefs, trusting them to be the christians that would help us find peace, healing, a purpose in life that we had never had in our outside lives.
The people that held you under control.... were damaged pure and simple.
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JeffSjo
Damaged people promoting themselves as men of God.
Yet once again I can perceive exactly what TWI really was.
Damages people leading damaged people into receiving more damage. It reminds me of the blind leading the blind and both ending up in a ditch.
But some still think that TWI represents the most excellent and capable believers of all time.
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JeffSjo
A little venting that seems to fit your post at least a little Bolshevik.
If I'm ever a big enough tool that I can be talked into deliberately leaving someone like me completely alone without support, just F'in shoot me somebody, please!
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