My splinter group experience as I've shared it here.

[JeffSjo]

Jeff,

We are trying to place this guy?? What is his first name? 14th Corps? Hubby was in the 14th for awhile. . . can't remember him. VP was sick by this time and I think he died before the 14th graduated. I doubt he spent much time with VP.

Dear Geisha,

His name is Victor Caleb Barnard. At HQ he was part of the group that were assigned to be with Mrs. Wierwille and that is where he says he learned to take care of women. I guess when those two gals had their heads on his shoulder while their husbands just stood there is somehow tied into his taking care of Mrs. Wierwille. <_<

JALvis was the best man at his wedding too.

How big is this group. Minnesota??. . . . What part?

When I was kicked out they were making themselves feel better about themselves by likening themselves to the 153 fishes that the disciples caught in their net. I'm not sure if there was a few less than that or a few more.

Now they are near the town of Finlayson in east-central Minnesota.

Haven't they ever heard of Minnesota nice??

Actually when they are being nasty and destructive they mock Minnesota nice.

When they love bomb people they seem to understand Minnesota nice very well. But it's just pretense IMO.

(edited for spelling)

Edited February 18, 2009 by JeffSjo

[JeffSjo]

When I faced the same devilish doctrine in my splinter group I told them that God gave the care of my son to me. And that everything after that was up to me and my wife.

And they were already mad at me for insisting on having a child when it was the current trend in my splinter group to not have children because the Lord was returning in 1997, no wait 2000, no I mean 2001, er 2003, no it was really going to happen in 2005.

For whatever it's worth I have felt more broken than strong for quite a while WG, but thank you anyway.

[JeffSjo]

Yes, what you are saying makes sense to me.

I have been in situations where the application of these things seemed cut and dry. For instance, any one of the times where my splinter group leader did things that were evil and manipulative on virtually every level. And to top it off he is so in tune to the casual conversation in the group and has taught his followers to be super sensitive to every utterance and report back that he can effectively squash any opposition before it begins.

But in spite of these things seeming exceedingly clear to me as far as understanding Barnard's actions right now, when looking at the consequences in the scriptures for these things when the Lord Himself judges they are not so clear to me.

The fact that even the apostle Paul reported looking ahead at these future events as "seeing through a glass darkly" speaks to my heart that I am not suppose to have a clear picture as to what the Lord Jesus will do to them. Another reference is when the scriptures speaking of the Lord Himself revealing the hidden things in mens' hearts at His coming.

So in all these things I find it to be wise to not say too much and wait for the Lord. But if I feel compelled to refer to part of Barnard's doctrine as devilish it certainly seems that it is good that I must understand that I may be held accountable for it. And that is part of why I called out What The Hey. It didn't seem to me that he knew that.

[JeffSjo]

But as far as the worst of TWI abuse goes, including the times that leadership manipulated and destroyed those who perhaps were by the spirit reproving them, yeah, IMO those offenders are forever marked by their wickedness until the Lord himself takes it out of their hides.

But with such emotion filled sentences the human tendency is to go too far and fall into error too IMO. But on the other hand.....

Wierwille tuned the Grace of God (scriptures and the name of Christ, etc.) into lasciviousness.

My former splinter group broke down the natural family order until the men were castrated and the women were thinking of Barnard as their children's "true" father.

I have no qualms of conscience in calling both these things damnable and devilish.

[JeffSjo]

With everybody's experiences being different in TWI it seems to me that maybe some of us might be willing to go on the record with experiences that fit this category. In TWI these things did not happen to me, even though some of the bad doctrines and counsel were definitely a factor in the times that I was a jerk. I'm attempting to go beyond the scope of any jerk-ness that I can recall committing and speak directly to deliberate cruelty and violations of basic human dignities. For me, these experiences relate directly to "River Road Fellowship" led by Victor Barnard.

Before they kicked me out I was trying to talk to my wife in order to get her to see things my way. After a while it was clear that everything that I told my wife in the privacy of my own house was being reported to leadership. After a while it got to the point where I could just tell her anything and within a day or two leadership would call a meeting in an attempt to deal with it. sometimes I would talk to her in the evening and first thing the very next morning a teacher dealt with these things. It could have been quite maddening except that I had already seen enough to be certain that these scum-buckets were willing to do absolutely anything to mess with my head. Intimidation was the norm at these meetings. It's not that I felt intimidated by these thugs, I felt my family was under assault. So for the most part I kept a straight face and dealt with it.

Under these circumstances in a small communal fellowship they are capable of putting an intense amount of pressure on an individual. For me, every stare, every inference concerning my issues with the fellowship, and every slight just seemed to add pressure that built up over time. When I was under the influence of such intense pressure they would often try to provoke me into doing something stupid. When they realized that I was just playing with them as far as just watching them react to the things that I would tell my wife in private they tried to get me to accuse them of using electronic eves-dropping devices. As I considered my wife capable and willing of repeating everything that I told her in private I never responded to the provocation with wild accusations concerning eves-dropping. But I knew that they were willing to eves-drop if it suited them.

When my splinter group owned their camp they invited a minister named Art Katz from Minnesota down for a visit. I participated in an evening of scriptural discussion with them. After the night was over Art and his friend went back to their room and discussed their evening in private. When one of the men came to tell Barnard that from his room (which was right over Katz's room in the housing) that he could hear everything that Katz and his friend said Barnard told him to go listen to everything they said. It may have been that this man was directly over Katz's friend's room, I'm not certain about that point.

So for me, I already know what they are. It is just a simple question of how far they are willing to go in their violations of basic human dignities.

I want people who may be thinking of visiting them to know these things.

(a little added in editing; spelling and grammar tweaked too.)

Edited February 25, 2009 by JeffSjo

[JeffSjo]

There is a certain aspect of my life that feels a little raw for me right now. The last couple of days it seems to me that what Barnard and my ex-wife did to me, along with his many toadies and thugs of course, is hitting home for me.

It's not just what they did in order to try to get rid of me. But facing that all by myself has been hard.

Until just the last couple of days I've held my ex-wife in my heart with a willingness to be sweet on her still.

But I think their cold, calculating destruction of my life is moving me past wanting to be sweet on her. But it is not the calculating and manipulative part alone, it is realizing that after trying so hard to discard me that she left me saying that she told me why she was leaving even though she did not. She was taught to be a cold, lying, b!tch by my former splinter group. She never did me the couresy of telling me why it was over.

And I now realize that part of their plan was to never admit what they did to me. I think they would have been most happy if I'd just crawled into a hole and died. I don't ever expect to see anything from her other than their pre-planned and complete rejection of me. While that alone has been torturous for me the last several years, I think realizing how deliberately destructive she is willing to be has ruined any sweetness that I have felt for her. Barnard taught my ex-wife to be one destuctive woman, but just like TWI leadership she can actually still love-bomb people. But for her boy's father she has shown nothing but contempt.

I'm not certain if I've just lost something good in me or just coming to an overdue reality check in seeing her hatred for me for what it is. I just am not sweet on her any more, and I'm certain that I never will be now.

Being able to talk about it hear has helped some.

[JeffSjo]

Dear Tzaia,

I've had these considerations before, and I suppose that it could go down like that. But after the many, many times that I waited for things to implode I'm not holding my breath anymore.

I have considered the perspective that my resistance only served to make Barnard's control over the group and my ex-wife stronger too. Even though I did my best to help keep them from falling farther and farther off the deep end they did get worse. If I knew then what I knew now about TWI I never would have brought my wife-to-be to her first TWI fellowship. And she would have never had to choose a twisted bastard who learned from Wierwille's methods to rule her world.

As long as they persist in the foolishness they live in while fooling themselves into thinking that they are strong it seems certain that no amount of logic or competently handled scripture will sway them. Like TWI, they excel at smearing the good guys in order to not confront their own great darkness.

But, I suppose that I do need to move on too.

Thanks.

[JeffSjo]

When my former splinter group leader did not like someone he would sometimes lift up one leg a little bit and let a little fart out. I still remember the smug look on the face of this insane bastard as he shared the inside joke with his thugs in training.

I'm not convinced of the need for this section, but I suppose I have not seen the very worst threads either.

But I am certain that I do not like that it is there. It brings stuff back.

TWI sometimes just put down people who needed help too!

[JeffSjo]

Once in prayer concerning my splinter group leader when I had been believing that God had sent him to help me I told God that I couldn't help but consider the God that would send this leader to be stupid. I feel mercy because I wasn't struck down when I called God stupid while praying.

I think now that God was not guiding Barnard. And I hope that God forgives me.

[JeffSjo]

I really like your decision to stay vigilant.

I would only add this one thing for your consideration, and not to warn you either, but so that everyone could be clear about the opposition as I saw it in my former splinter group and as I've heard of it in TWI.

They use this same scripture that you brought up to beat down their enemies and they've been doing it for a long time. And in spite of the putrid nature of their corruption they are pure in their own eyes for the most part, well....., I know the Lord will sort them out too.

[JeffSjo]

I think that this is a very relevant thread Groucho, thank you.

My former splinter group leader, Victor Barnard took every opportunity that I can recall to emphasize his ownership over mens' wives and children ala Wierwille for sure. So even though I have no proof that he ever took it into a sexual relationship, Barnard's secrecy, paranoia, and manic belief that all men will bow to him along with him taking every opportunity that I can remember to emphasize to all the men his ownership of their wives and children means that I can relate to TWI.

To be honest, my ex-wife's behavior does leave a little question mark in my mind though.

I can only imagine how bad it must be for the men that Wierwille cuckolded however. Dealing with a questionmark is hard enough for me.

I wish that these men would find the courage to share and add their testimony to the Greasespot cafe. I am sure that they would find support. I think that they might find something to fight for aggain too. Even King David had one wife given to another man by wicked men. I think God can heal them. It may not be easy though. I wish them all the best.

PEACE,

JEFF

[Dot Matrix]

Thanks for sharing

[JeffSjo]

Time and time again I have been amazed at the similarities between my former splinter group and TWI. Many of my experiences as a part of River Road Fellowship have paralleled many of the abusive, twisted and cruel practices many of you have had in TWI. But this thread is not about TWI, it is about the current happenings in my former splinter group and the events currently going down.

Now while I can not guarantee any of you as to exacting parallels between TWI history and RRF history I think many of you may be able to relate to what my old abusers and my old friends are going through. From time to time I will update this thread so that if any of you happen to come across any of these folks by chance, you may know where to direct them or what they need.

MY FORMER SPLINTER GROUP IS BREAKING UP. But even though my friends among the locals see things, everybody that is a part of RRF is being relatively tight lipped, according to my friends that is.

Some folks are going back to Pennsylvania, where Victor Barnard himself recruited them in order to "stand on God's Word" with him until Christ returns. I do not know if this includes the very man who told me to "F" my then recently deceased Grandmother in a fit of rage or not, the very same one who told me, "You are not welcome back in fellowship until you resolve this shameful situation" on the very day he moved my wife and one year old child out of my house. I do not know if this includes another man who suffered his wife telling him that Victor Barnard was the "true" father of his four daughters, the very one whose oldest daughter signified her lifetime commitment to Victor Barnard by saying in fellowship, "I'm married to the Christ in Victor."

I heard that the man who fired me from my job a couple of days after they moved my wife and child out of my house is moving to Alaska and is sending his younger son to college. The thing is I will never forget how this slime-ball canned me with a smile and a handshake. It would be much better for him if God doesn't pay him back for the damage he did to my life and family. His oldest daughter was the first of the ten young girls who made lifetime commitments to Barnard, yeah, good luck keeping your family together Randy.

I am most concerned for the "Ten Maidens" as they were called. These girls were led to make lifetime commitments to Barnard while they were still in their teens, or their twenties. One of them came from Brazil and in order to stay in the country RRF fellowship had to tell the INS that she was a in a religious cloister similar to a convent. Her commitment was to remain celibate and loyal to Barnard.

There are many people who I counted as friends still in RRF the last I heard. And I have heard from a couple of reliable sources that some people are moving to Alaska, Pennsylvania, and Florida so far. And both of these two thought that some people were staying around Finlayson, Mn. too.

And both of them said that for all the foreclosures on property, auctions, and moving going on with RRF folks that everybody is being tight lipped about what really is going on, no surprise to me.

I will update this as I find out more, just in case it may help a few get help who are leaving River Road Fellowship.

(added in editing)

I guess Christ did not come back in 1997, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2007, uh er.....make that 2011...yeah right. Barnard is batting ZERO so far.

I guess they were not attacked by the government or the locals as Barnard predicted in 2001.

I feel for the many sacrifices people made in order to be with Barnard, including....I am not making this up.....abortion. At least one couple was being pressured into giving up their son for adoption too.

Time and time again I have been amazed at the single minded dedication that Victor Barnard kept a lid on the people and events within River road fellowship. So I am fully well aware that for all the predictable threats and gnashing of teeth that IMO Barnard and his chief thugs must have done since they kicked me out it is very likely that V.Barnard has some kind of control over some of these folks. And he might have his diseased hand still controlling to some extent even those that are moving to other states.

He told the church that, "you won't like life very much if I loose my camp" about the time that the leaders were also afraid of being sent to jail because of some kind of skirting of loan rules when they bought the camp they later had to sell.

So I have many things to find out before I can say with surety that Barnard's twisted influence is gone for good, but a guy (me) can hope.

(Yes..sigh..edited for spelling and grammar)

Edited September 22, 2009 by JeffSjo

[JeffSjo]

This last weekend Randy R. and some others had a land sale at the property that we all used to call "the farm." I had been invited to a social gathering by some folks who had befriended me after RRF had kicked me out on the very same day as the public land auction and decided that I could go to the social gathering and go to the land sale to see what Randy was up to in selling all this private property.

I arrived in Finlayson at the same time the auction was suppose to start so I went straight to the farm. "MARK FR@#TCZ&K" was assigned to greet(yeah right, more like security!) folks up the driveway by the buildings. As I approached he started to raise his hand and I thought it would be a good idea to drive right by him and head to parking before he saw who I was and asked me to leave.

When I parked my vehicle and started heading toward the auction I was greeted by two old friends of mine, Mike and Steve. Mike ended up doing the talking.

Mike was the one who decided to keep his son against the advice and consent of V. Barnard. And the same one who had his butcher business shut down supposedly because of mad cow disease shortly after that. He is one of the men that I still believe has enough toughness and decency to stand up to Barnard but for now I am deeply disapointed in his trained inabitlity to even acknowledge the grief that I caught from V. Barnard's brother in law for simply telling Mike that I believed he made a good decision in keeping his son.

Steve is one of the men who allowed Barnard to have his oldest daughter join Barnard in a supposedly celibate marriage-like vow relationship. He looked even more oppressed than when I saw him last. The times that I remember Steve stand up for himself he was quickly put in his place by RRF leadership recalling one of his past mistakes. As things sit I do not think he has it in him any more to stand up for himself or his family, but I hope that time proves me wrong in my assessment.

I told Mike that I wanted to know what was going on and go to the sale too. He told me that my pointed questions made it sound like I was looking for trouble. I answered, "What trouble Mike? Where is the sale?" Then Mike told me where the sale was being held and I went there.

I entered what they used to use as a sheep milking barn and found they had transformed it into a very nice fellowship area. I found out later that some of the locals somewhat in-the-know as to RRF's methods call it "The Beating Room." The crowd that was there for the sale seemed very small and when I mentioned that to the auctioneer he said the crowd was smaller than he expected. When I mentioned my concern for him being paid he said that no matter how the auction went he had already been paid. Considering the financial strain and the forclosures that some among RRF have seen recently I can understand why the auctioneer seemed pleased that his pay for his day's labor was taken care of.

I shared with others that were there for the sale that I was in RRF when they bought the farm and can attest to all the labor that went into making the old farm buildings as nice as they are now. Some of them started asking me questions, which I was quick to answer. I shared about V.Barnard's false predictions of RRF being attacked by the government or the locals, the ten young women and in the words of one of the young women, their "married to the Christ in Victor" relationship, Barnard's many false predictions concerning the timing of Christ's return, and how they moved my wife and child out of my house shortly to be followed by Randy firing me from my job with a smile and a handshake. (bastard)

But in spite of Randy's nasty behavior towards me I had held out some hope that he was decent enough and tough enough to be standing up to Barnard now. One local friend had speculated that some thought that Randy and his wife were splitting up like me and my now ex-wife had. Considering how incredibly sold-out to Barnard Pam had been I thought he might be bugging out of RRF.

Randy and his wife are not splitting up. They are selling their assets and taking some folks from RRF with them and are moving to a new area to start a new group. Mike had assured me that those that were leaving with Randy were doing so of their own free will. But I don't think any of them see the big ring in their nose that Barnard and co. lead them around by.

The most reliable info that I got all day was that their new location will be in the state of Washington. I think that semi-rural Washington is in some ways a better environment for RRF. Washington is no stranger to off-center groups of all types, religious and survivalist with strong seperatist sentiments.

Some of them may be going back to Pennsylvania too.

Back to the narrative.....

After talking with the locals for a bit Mike came into the room and asked me to go outside and join him for a smoke. As the auctioneer was right outside the door I did not see any real harm in letting Mike follow his instructions and seperate me from the general public. At least the intelligent seeming auctioneer would be able to listen to Mike and I talk if he wished. And I already know that RRF isd very, very careful to keep their most abusive methods and motives hidden from the public at large.

Mike refused to give me a straight answer when I asked him to remember the he!! they gave me while I worked for him at his butcher shop. He refused to admit that I was the one who sought him out to give him moral support when RRF was leading him to give up his youngest son for adoption, or the he!! they gave me for supporting his decision. He still thinks that the real reason his butcher shop was shut down was mad cow disease. He refuses to acknowledge the abusive things that we both know Barnard has done. He couldn't even look at me when I asked him if Dave K. is the man that V Barnard had spit on for falling asleep during one of his sharings.

I asked him if Barnard still have the fellowship so isolated from each other that they can't talk about these things. I said to mike," Mike, real people talk about these kind of things!"

I told him Barnard is a false prophet. I hope Mike hears my words some day. I hope the auctioneer was listening to my conversation with Mike too. Before I went in I ended my talk with Mike by telling him that he was covering too many specifics with vague generalities.

One more thing....Mike told me that RRF had a lot of love going on. He may have done this during our first conversation, before I went to the auction...er...I mean BEATING ROOM. I answered saying,"Are you kidding Mike? Ken P. moved Kelly and my son out of my house and told me that I was not welcome back until "this shameful situation was resolved". Yeah right Mike, I SURE FELT THE LOVE THEN." (very sarcastic tone then, on my part.)

After I left Mike outside I went into the auction room again and was sharing more of my RRF experience with folks. One man even mentioned a book by the name of "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" and asked me if I'd read it. I told him no, but I have talked with many people who have. (Thank you GSC)

All during this conversation Randy's wife and another woman who in times past had shared with me that she was trying to deliberately forget everything that happened in her life before Victor (I know, CRAZY, but I am not making that up.) came in and talked to the auctioneer a few times. The last time the quietly came in and talked to him he left them and politely asked me to leave. I turned to the man I was talking with and said while pointing at the two women,"See, those two just came in and asked the auctioneer to have me leave."

I wished the auctioneer good luck in the auction and said loud enough for anyone in the room to hear if they were listening, "They are kicking me out again, at least this time I'm leaving with the same family I had when I came."

Outside there was a old English sheep dog standing which I pet and looked over. The auctioneer had come outside with me and after petting the dog I turned to him and said, "Sometimes dogs are better at telling who are good people than people are."

On my way out to the parking lot Steve sat in his truck and refused to look at me as I walked by.

I left without further incident.

(Of course, edited for spelling and content.)

[JeffSjo]

There two main conversations that I had with Mike. I am thankful that I got to talk to him because as I stated earlier, I think he is one of the men that has enough decency and toughness in him to stand up to Barnard if he chooses.

To set the stage for my recent talk with Mike let me digress.....

When he decided to keep his youngest son instead of giving him up for adoption as Barnard and co. desired he shared with me that day at the butcher shop that it was a hard decision for him to make and that he made it with a tremendous (IMO) amount of prayerful consideration. And when the first attempt to set up his youngest son with a good couple that were willing to take in his developmentally disabled child failed he shortly girded his loins (Biblical idiom) and changed his mind. I said,"I think you made a good decision Mike."

Barnard's brother-in-law was obviously angry with me and said in front of everyone with a scowl on his face that some among us would never, ever be welcome on the property again. The fact that he was looking directly at me while he said it made it plain to me who he was referring to, but as River Road Fellowship had long since grown accustom to such abusive and threatening cowards who hide behind protocol and the like I do not know how many of the men present even caught it. Such cowardly proclamations as that leave the abusers able to deny accountability for their words and enable them to publicly project the prospect of mental instability at anyone such as myself who are willing to hold them accountable for their words and actions.

But back to last Saturday's conversations with Mike.....

I have just a couple of observations and considerations.

The first is that their were two main conversations with Mike. The first one was right outside of the parking lot after I arrived and Steve was the only other one present. The second one started in the "beating room" but Mike asked me to go outside with him right after we started. I am not sure if Mike was directed to do that or just didn't want to have our conversation in front of everybody, maybe both. But outside the auctioneer was the only one within earshot. And no matter Mike's intentions were with that conversation I am sure that he knew the auctioneer was within earshot by the fact that Mike kept looking at him. It may be that Mike was trying to make me seem crazy in front of the auctioneer because in several cases he tried to deny or downplay things that he very well knew was the truth but I think may tend to embarrass River Road Fellowship in the eyes of the general public. No matter Mike's intentions my gut was to trust the auctioneer to listen to Mike and I if he chose and to make up his own mind.

Mike had a couple of conversation habits that I consider symptomatic of trying to converse with a committed member of River Road Fellowship.

The one he used the most is to respond to a point I made by saying,"I don't know what to say to that." In practise I believe it is a simple dodge of the point being made. And for a member of River Road Fellowship this condition of not knowing what to say is most often remedied by talking to leadership in order to be told what to say.

The second dodge was Mike saying,"I don't know where you get that from." IMO this is another simple dodge for a member of River Road Fellowship. It has an element of denial to it and may have been used by Mike for the sake of the auctioneer or to attempt to salve Mike's own conscience, maybe both IMO. But my response went the route of something like,"Mike, it was exactly what happened, that is where I got it from." More than once I recalled exactly what someone else said in order to back up what I said. Like when I told Mike that I remember Amy saying in front of everybody,"We believe you Victor" right after he told us that we would be attacked by the locals or the government.

[Shellon]

Have I mentioned how proud I am of you, lately?

Seriously, a man loses his wife, his family, his home, his job, basically in one fell swoop and against your own control or timing or choice, you had to decide to get up every day and keep sucking air.

I get that each of us has our story, we all have to deal with our stuff and make those choices every day, but you've been willing to put your story out here.

Inspriring, actually.

[JeffSjo]

Thank you darlin, sweet heart. :wub:

I keep considering what else to share. I thought about adding more details from my conversation with Mike, but not now anyhow. I thought about filling folks about the other folks that I talked to, but I wouldn't want to spill the beans for those thugs and cretins of Barnard's that are doubtlessly aware of what I am sharing here. besides the plight of some of these folks who think that serving Barnard is synonymous with serving God just tears my heart out and I do not really want to expose them to GSC and this strange, out in the broad daylight kind of thing here that they might not be able to deal with right now but maybe will be able to do someday.

I am sure that eventually I'll want to add something.....

[JeffSjo]

Over the course of the last week or so I have heard a couple of reliable sources that said that Barnard has been doing things that are every bit as bad as the reports of Wierwille that I have heard here.

I have heard that more than one couple is headed for divorce because of it.

I have heard a few young adults that belong to the next generation after mine whose parents were in RRF that are just absolutely sickened by the things they know.

I have had one old friend tell me that all the things being said about Barnard are a lie, and to never call them again.

I talked to one woman who said because Barnard taught her the Word she will not say anything bad about him, even though her daughter is leaving the group. When she told me she loved Wierwille too I told her, "That's only because you don't know what he did to women!" But our conversation was cordial enough and we still had a decent goodbye.

And I've heard specifics that I just don't feel right sharing right now. But I am feeling more than a little perturbed.

And so far it seems to me that I have had a small sampling platter of the different reactions comon among Wayfers as the reports of TWI sexual abuse came out for many of you.

But every one of these people I know. That makes things much more intense.

Barnard portrayed me as the bad guy. I'm kind of wondering when people will realize that the things he said against me were just a bunch of lies. But it seems that for folks to hear that they will have to start realizing just how much Barnard pulled the wool over their eyes.

It's all just starting for real for me fellow Greasepotters.

[JeffSjo]

I personally know two women who did while under the influence of RRF's guidance.

The one that was my roommate said it was because of all the pressure of the last days and she had mentioned the scripture in the gospels that says, "Woe unto them with child, that give suck in those days....". And her husband, one of Barnard's so called "prophets" seemed to me that his major qualification was that he majored in buttkissing.

[JeffSjo]

So much about the things that I'm certain are going on trouble me.

The young women are mostly staying, many of them having bound themselves to Barnard with vows that were doubtlessly real to them when they made them.

Many young men leaving, looking to start their own lives.

Some folks are very angry with Barnard, some are still loyal.

But they all have been led by doctrine and example that to talk about the specifics they do know is wrong. Nobody is even willing to lay out what their side of my situation was from their perspective while I was there.

The mostly well intentioned silence does not serve the truth at all IMO.

But I am being honest as to my intentions with them all. I don't think that is something they are used to, having been in an abusive organization and having been taught to just do what they are told according to River Road Fellowship's own self interest.

While they are led to see the devil in all the wrong places, they mostly seem incapable of openly discussing what RRF and Barnard is actually doing.

The more I see this situation the more I curse The Way International and that abuse hiding "lockbox."

[grand-daughter]

It's such a shame that over the years I too have stayed generally silent. There have been reasons for it. For so long and even still today somewhat, I have fear of speaking evil of brethren although it is true. Great shame and embarrassment has been another issue not to mention not even really knowing who to share things with. But at this point for loves sake I have decided to speak as much as I can to whomever will listen. There is no fear in love, right? Being in the same little splinter group that Jeff was in, I know all the hurt, anger, frustration and every other adjective you can think of when we go back and think about all those years wasted (IMO) on a self righteousness, maniplutive, glory monger. If I can stop even just 1 more person from being hurt by this man and his group, I will share what I know.

[JeffSjo]

That sounds good to me too Grand-daughter. :)

I"m in a situation where for some of the people that I think about seem to be loyal to a supposed Man of God that I don't believe rates the loyalty.

When I first came here to the Greasespot I faced a couple of things, like a woman telling me what Wierwille did to her, for me that was a clear start of a new perspective for me; that,and realizing that not only did Wierwille simply copy other mens' work in assembling the greatest knowledge (supposedly)since the first century, but many of the things he plagiarized I have come to realize weren't even first rate in the first place.

So since my facing what Wierwille actually did, I have since come to think of him as a sexual predator that was only a second rate hack, biblically speaking.

Wierwille has fallen a long, long way from the heights of his reputation that TWI first showed me how to hold of him in 1982. But the things is, my mistake was in believeing TWI lies and spin in the first place. I believe that Wierwille really, really was a sexual predator and 2nd rate hack. Is it sane at all to believe that he can be soooo scummy and still be the great MOG? I think not!

Not to mention the bs that many of my old friends have been led to believe about my former splinter group leader. They were taught to say he was, "The Word in the Flesh." And now it appears he has a fully Wierwillian sexual perversity on top of his 2nd rate, self serving biblical work.

And biblically speaking, didn't Paul encourage the Corinthians to learn to judge their preachers correctly. So why should we be encouraged to not judge a minister!? Especialy really, really bad and evil TWI style leaders. THIS INFLUENE OF BLINDLY ACCEPTING SEXUAL PREDATORS AS MOG DID NOT COME FROM GOD, people. (I am hoping that this para. doesn't mean it needs to be a docrinal thread. I'll spin it off into doctinal if need be...)

And in my case, it seems pretty solid that he is way, WAY WORSE than the trumped up and imaginary accusations that he used to ruin my life. So I feel a little emotionally invested in proving him for what he really, really is.

__________________________

Would anyone like to share the specifics of how you came to realize the MOG was less than advertised?

It seems to me that some people still believe lying TWI or TWI style spin, after all.

[Shellon]

It's such a shame that over the years I too have stayed generally silent. There have been reasons for it. For so long and even still today somewhat, I have fear of speaking evil of brethren although it is true. Great shame and embarrassment has been another issue not to mention not even really knowing who to share things with. But at this point for loves sake I have decided to speak as much as I can to whomever will listen. There is no fear in love, right? Being in the same little splinter group that Jeff was in, I know all the hurt, anger, frustration and every other adjective you can think of when we go back and think about all those years wasted (IMO) on a self righteousness, maniplutive, glory monger. If I can stop even just 1 more person from being hurt by this man and his group, I will share what I know.

Please do, grand-daughter. I completely understand that trepidation, the concern about not hurting anyone, even with truth, and it provides a time to get things settled in your own heart as to what to share and not. Only you know that time and remember it's your story.

I'd love to hear it if you'd wish to share it. It's unique to you and your life and that, alone, makes it a great read if I may be that flip about it.

You might tell it and never hear a word from those that relate while they but ponder it and apply it and it settles somewhere in their heart and life as "she's telling my story!" and receive something good and healing from it that might give them the reassurance that they're ok, you understand and there is hope. Even just a silent and private assurance that they're not as alone as they thought.

I think a telling of a story is, indeed, to help others, but first it's for the teller to release and disclose and in the telling things sort out for YOU.

When you're ready.....

You have, here, the additional support of your friend Jeff who can back you up and encourage and understand like maybe none of the rest of us can.

Bonus!

[JeffSjo]

:wub: You said that soo well Shellon...

Hi Dawn...Yeah, what she said!

[grand-daughter]

:wub: You said that soo well Shellon...

Hi Dawn...Yeah, what she said!

Hi Jeff and thank you Shellon. I believe since I started telling my story here and I left of before we moved up north thats where I will begin again. I may not have dates like so many of you all but the hurt, pain and anger is still the same. :(