Does anyone remember the exact reason why California broke away from twi in 80's? Was it because of the abundant sharing issues, was it because of the many firings, the LCM loyalty letter, the adultery, or the plagerism?
My memory is foggy, and I've been having conversations with someone who lives there and who goes to fellowships with the spinoff group that most went to there, and I'm interested if whether Doug S**d and those who led the departure from twi in california made a stand over the adultery and doctrinal plagerism issues, or was it over them getting fired en masse if they didn't comply with the loyalty letter and the ABS?
Does anyone remember the details of why they all succeeded from twi all at once?
I was in the SF Bay Area from 1990 to 1993. I fellowshipped withe offshoot peeps. They were not part of TWI because of LCM's loyalty letter.
Of course nobody confronted the adultery or plagerism. Most of them are still staunch VPW supporters, particularly D*ug S*ed. I saw him at a fellowship in San Diego after I left TWI for the 2nd time. This was early 2003. He was still singing the glory of the original BOT. It made me sick, but it also made me realize I no longer wanted anything remotely close to TWI.
Most of them are still staunch VPW supporters, particularly D*ug S*ed.
........it seems like most of the splinter groups are staunch vpw supporters, because it facilitates their efforts of groupthink, "good ole day" nostalgia, and the money flowing in.
Just seems like so many of those region guys saw their chance to be 'top gun'........and took it.
Thanks to those who responded to my question, It is amazing that nothing has changed, as The Who said in one of their songs, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." That reflects poorly on all the former leaders from twi who are still "leading" in the offshoots.
I didn't know very many people other than leadership that "succeeded" from TWI. oh wait, you meant "seceded", never mind
Thanks hap for your spelling lesson contribution to this thread, that is what I meant, I have changed my post. :)
It seems that there were two main types of exodus back in the 80's, the "en masse" defection, where a Limb or Region leader cut ties to TWI and many or most of his Limb followed, and the individual who just walked away under his own steam. From what I have read at GSC and other sites over the years, the en masse defections were about the so-called loyalty letter (or at least that letter was the last straw) for the leaders, and the rank and file decided that the local leaders who they knew were more more likely to be trustworthy than the far-away Trustees who they didn't know.
It seems that there were two main types of exodus back in the 80's, the "en masse" defection, where a Limb or Region leader cut ties to TWI and many or most of his Limb followed, and the individual who just walked away under his own steam. From what I have read at GSC and other sites over the years, the en masse defections were about the so-called loyalty letter (or at least that letter was the last straw) for the leaders, and the rank and file decided that the local leaders who they knew were more more likely to be trustworthy than the far-away Trustees who they didn't know.
In NY (state and city),
almost everyone left SPECIFICALLY when lcm sent out his loy-alty letter early 1989.
That was a form letter that said
"We fired the following people in your state
(names of almost all the leaders in NY State)
because they refused to serve God."
Having taken the opportunity to evaluate PERSONALLY THEIR performance,
and lcm's performance,
I had few misgivings about leaving WITH them, along with almost everyone in the state.
It sounds like sending the same form letter to Californians
(differing only in the names of the fired people)
had much the same result it had in NY.
Since he fired all of them TOGETHER, he did us all the favor of giving us an entire communications framework
already in place to operate among the people who were fired.
LCM must have lost sight of one of the most critical bits of information he needed to make such a move.------It was all a scam to start with. VPW, on the other hand, was quite aware of that when he "fired" the first corps.
What did Martindale think would happen when he sent those letters out? Sheesh! What an idiot.
It loooks like he facilitated the formation of offshoots/splinters with his actions.
For the record....... :unsure:
Martindale's "loyalty letter" was sent out in March 1989. In the state of Indiana, the limb guy R1ch W@tk1ns, was standing firmly "in Cgeer's corner" at least by July 1987........he received a bi-monthly paycheck from twi for nearly TWO YEARS as he promoted Gartmore/Geer. When I visited the limb bookstore in March 1988, the current newletter from gartmore was next to the photocopy machine for anyone who wanted to copy extras and distribute them.
In April 1988, I attended the Indiana clergy meeting at the limb home. Five clergy were present and W@tkins was obviously throwing all his support to Geer/Gartmore..........all the while, W@tkins and his family received a twi-salary and lived at the Indiana limb home. Having had two unpleasant experiences with Cgeer, I was NO cgeer supporter........so the weekend meetings were a mixed bag, for me.
During this period of time, many region/limb guys were flying over to Gartmore to "stand with The Man." Whatever......I just didn't see it that way.
So, yeah..........martindale sent out the letter.
After two years of W@tkins living off his twi-salary......and fixing his boat in the limb garage......and promoting gartmore every chance he got..........two years and more!.........how long should these guys be allowing to waver between twi & gartmore??????
Imo.............WIERWILLE screwed it up! Wierwille ordained cgeer in '82 and sent him to Europe......wierwille fueled the competitiveness throughout the corps program, amongst leaders. Wierwille buddied with cgeer, shared the dog-training with cgeer, read the same books, the same paranoia, guns, etc. etc........all the while, giving lcm the spiritual nod.
And, imo.......if wierwille was half the man he proclaimed to be, he would have nipped this stuff in the bud back in 1982 - 1984. But no.........wierwille was too busy with his way production high country caravan, his "snow-way," and getting ready to ride his motorcycle to canada and back. Then, to top it all off..........wierwille runs to gartmore and, supposedly, unloads his guts on cgeer........and shortly thereafter dies.
I had NO idea what was specifically happening all around the country, but it was crazy in my neck of the woods. And, to this day........W@tkins is still an avid geer supporter.....just not salaried by the way international.
He and the Mrs. were house leaders their second year.
He was in charge of prison outreach for Ohio and she was in charge of childrens fellowships for Ohio.
They got lots and lots of preferential treatment and really knew how to milk the system.
There was a lot of resentment of them by the FLO4s because, while the W@tk!ns were treated like royalty, the rest of us were treated like serfs. I'm not a bit surprised to learn of the "double dipping".
There are other FLO here who may agree or disagree with that assessment.
I'm just stating my personal opinion.
Sorry---Guess that doesn't have anything to do with CA.
I'd be interested to know the thought process behind the decisions by some to remain "officially" within TWI, i.e. collect a salary, outwardly remain part of the chain of command, etc. while supporting in word and deed those who, right or wrong, stood against TWI.
Did some think that G##r was going to ride in and take over as titular head of TWI? That some bottom-up change from within was going to take place?
I know that while I was involved in TWI, from time to time the rank and file, non-leaders and non-Corps twig leaders, would sometimes wait out the leadership turnover if they thought the appointed Limb Leader or Branch Leader was a jerk. They'd lay low, minimally participate, and see what the next guy would be like. By the mid-to-late 90's even this wasn't available any more, since the fringe participants were considered spiritually weak and guilty of "unproductive evil" and driven out.
I wonder if this wasn't part of the mindset of those who hung around while viewing the Trustees as "not doing the Word".
I'd be interested to know the thought process behind the decisions by some to remain "officially" within TWI, i.e. collect a salary, outwardly remain part of the chain of command, etc. while supporting in word and deed those who, right or wrong, stood against TWI.
Isn't that essencially what Wierwille did before he broke away from his denomination?
He didn't leave his denomination until 1957, but had his own private radio ministry from 1942 on, incorporated in 1947 and had the name changed to "The Way" in 1955. Started pushing speaking in tongues in 1951 (Tulsa trip) and began PFAL classes in 1953.
I know that while I was involved in TWI, from time to time the rank and file, non-leaders and non-Corps twig leaders, would sometimes wait out the leadership turnover if they thought the appointed Limb Leader or Branch Leader was a jerk. They'd lay low, minimally participate, and see what the next guy would be like. By the mid-to-late 90's even this wasn't available any more, since the fringe participants were considered spiritually weak and guilty of "unproductive evil" and driven out.
. . .
of mice, and rats
I wonder why anyone signed a green card, then go on to habitually lie about its benefits to their lives.
I wonder why anyone signed a green card, then go on to habitually lie about its benefits to their lives.
That's why we were koolaid drinkers. If you repeat something over and over in your life even if you haven't experienced it, you don't want to appear to be a hypocrite. So you go along with it all. Remember what was said if you didn't understand something? We were told to hold it in abeyance. TWI was it's own culture, and most wanted to fit in and become spiritual powermen or women.
It's only those of us here who got real and saw how fake the promotion of TWI and it's classes were. It wasn't just about leaving a cult, it was about reviewing what you believe and looking at it for what it really was. Like being on Staff, which was supposed to be a privilege. I'm thinking why was it a privilege to have your life taken over and to live sub par and work like a dog for so little money? We were told it was for God, and He would bless us above and beyond for our service. We believed it at some point. I now think it was them dangling a carrot.
We weren't lying about the benefits to our lives. I know I was truly convinced that those in TWI were truly blessed and would receive more than any other Christian group because we were God's elite. We believed that because we heard it over and over and over and over. It's called brainwashing.
When I got out, I questioned a lot. But I didn't turn over everything I believed in one day after I left. It was a process.
Imo.............WIERWILLE screwed it up! Wierwille ordained cgeer in '82 and sent him to Europe......wierwille fueled the competitiveness throughout the corps program, amongst leaders. Wierwille buddied with cgeer, shared the dog-training with cgeer, read the same books, the same paranoia, guns, etc. etc........all the while, giving lcm the spiritual nod.
Totally agree. What a clown to pick as a best friend and confidant.
I might also add that the rank and file believers were ripe for a change by the mid 80's. In the 70's, twigs and branches were run by non-corps in a loving and relatively loose way. By the early 80's, an abundance of corps grads needing work were given those jobs. That took a lot of the local heart out of the branches and twigs and caused no small amount of unhappiness.
Thanks for the added information everyone, I personally think one of the reasons why King Okie played the card of let's fire all the corps in the state in '89 is that he was so successful with that tactic in the previous years...I rember many individual firings in '88, even limb leaders and many corps were singled out individually with not much of a stir...many believers had never experienced this happening before and assumed there was a good reason for it. Next, King Okie pulled the loyalty stuff with hq staff and in residence corps in '88..and so on...I'm sure he believed he was doing the righteous thing, he learned these tactics from the best, his mentor, vpee.
Imo.............WIERWILLE screwed it up! Wierwille ordained cgeer in '82 and sent him to Europe......wierwille fueled the competitiveness throughout the corps program, amongst leaders. Wierwille buddied with cgeer, shared the dog-training with cgeer, read the same books, the same paranoia, guns, etc. etc........all the while, giving lcm the spiritual nod.
And, imo.......if wierwille was half the man he proclaimed to be, he would have nipped this stuff in the bud back in 1982 - 1984. But no.........wierwille was too busy with his way production high country caravan, his "snow-way," and getting ready to ride his motorcycle to canada and back. Then, to top it all off..........wierwille runs to gartmore and, supposedly, unloads his guts on cgeer........and shortly thereafter dies.
Skyrider, I can vouch for the fact that vpee encouraged competitiveness amongst the top leaders in twi, I had a conversation with one of the men who was in the running for the presidency of twi before lcm was named, and he verified that they all, even Geer, were competing for the top spot. Vpee was no idiot, he had to have seen what a weanie king okie was, how he was a lap dog for vp, but even so, he picked the okie over his best friend Geer. I don't think vpee wanted his replacement to succeed, he never liked anyone doing anything better than him while he was alive, I can't see he'd want to be upstaged by Geer either.
Vpee was no idiot, he had to have seen what a weanie king okie was, how he was a lap dog for vp, but even so, he picked the okie over his best friend Geer. I don't think vpee wanted his replacement to succeed, he never liked anyone doing anything better than him while he was alive, I can't see he'd want to be upstaged by Geer either.
You can't train raise up and train leaders the way TWI trained leaders and expect anyone to be prepared to take over. The proof is in the fruit. Not one person who went through TWI's formal leadership training has been able to rise up and take it forward. None of the people who formed splinters has risen to the occasion and the original group is a shell of itself.
True Tazia, good point, I just think vpee made a caculated choice for his replacement, and it wasn't the best man or the man most able to continue the mission...which old vic's mission was quite different than the rest of us, but anyway, I'm not so sure the reasons were made public.
He didn't leave his denomination until 1957, but had his own private radio ministry from 1942 on, incorporated in 1947 and had the name changed to "The Way" in 1955. Started pushing speaking in tongues in 1951 (Tulsa trip) and began PFAL classes in 1953.
EXACTLY!........after taking BG Leonard's class in 1953 and teaching it as his own, wierwille STAYED FOUR MORE YEARS in his denomination, sucking on the salary support......all the while, gaining momentum to eventually break away and do his own thing.
Same thing with many of those "splinter group guys" back in 1987-89. Like I stated, W@tkins was vocally supporting cgeer for at least TWO YEARS......salaried by twi. W@tkins wasn't planning to move out of the limb home either.
And...........did Cgeer really have any intentions of reconciling this whole "patriarch parade" and help martindale/trustees be fully in charge again??? I seriously doubt it. Heck, even by 1983 cgeer was bucking communication from f1nnegan as the worldwide outreach coordinator. Cgeer was already dictating what europe would and wouldn't do......cgeer made it known that the european corps would NOT be coming to the annual corps week/roa, but would come every THIRD year.
IMO.........patriarch paper or not, geer stance or not..........I think that all this splintering would have happened regardless. It's just the nature of things......when wierwille died, many of field corps leadership was in their mid 30s to early 40s and READY TO LEAD. State coordinators were ALREADY sending out monthly newsletters, traveling around their state, in the living rooms of these followers...........what the heck was twi (or gartmore) doing FOR THEM anyways??? And, california being so far away........no surprise there.
Yep, imo......the splintering was going to happen anyway. Geer only sped up the process.
I don't think vpee wanted his replacement to succeed, he never liked anyone doing anything better than him while he was alive, I can't see he'd want to be upstaged by Geer either.
I agree !
Wierwille had to stand at the top and REMAIN at the top.......and he sabotaged any unity or forward momentum just a month prior to his death. Nice move......
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Nottawayfer
I was in the SF Bay Area from 1990 to 1993. I fellowshipped withe offshoot peeps. They were not part of TWI because of LCM's loyalty letter.
Of course nobody confronted the adultery or plagerism. Most of them are still staunch VPW supporters, particularly D*ug S*ed. I saw him at a fellowship in San Diego after I left TWI for the 2nd time. This was early 2003. He was still singing the glory of the original BOT. It made me sick, but it also made me realize I no longer wanted anything remotely close to TWI.
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skyrider
Just seems like so many of those region guys saw their chance to be 'top gun'........and took it.
<_<
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HAPe4me
I didn't know very many people other than leadership that "succeeded" from TWI. oh wait, you meant "seceded", never mind :)
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now I see
Thanks to those who responded to my question, It is amazing that nothing has changed, as The Who said in one of their songs, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." That reflects poorly on all the former leaders from twi who are still "leading" in the offshoots.
Thanks hap for your spelling lesson contribution to this thread, that is what I meant, I have changed my post. :)
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Oakspear
It seems that there were two main types of exodus back in the 80's, the "en masse" defection, where a Limb or Region leader cut ties to TWI and many or most of his Limb followed, and the individual who just walked away under his own steam. From what I have read at GSC and other sites over the years, the en masse defections were about the so-called loyalty letter (or at least that letter was the last straw) for the leaders, and the rank and file decided that the local leaders who they knew were more more likely to be trustworthy than the far-away Trustees who they didn't know.
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WordWolf
In NY (state and city),
almost everyone left SPECIFICALLY when lcm sent out his loy-alty letter early 1989.
That was a form letter that said
"We fired the following people in your state
(names of almost all the leaders in NY State)
because they refused to serve God."
Having taken the opportunity to evaluate PERSONALLY THEIR performance,
and lcm's performance,
I had few misgivings about leaving WITH them, along with almost everyone in the state.
It sounds like sending the same form letter to Californians
(differing only in the names of the fired people)
had much the same result it had in NY.
Since he fired all of them TOGETHER, he did us all the favor of giving us an entire communications framework
already in place to operate among the people who were fired.
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Oakspear
What did Martindale think would happen when he sent those letters out? Sheesh!
What an idiot.
It loooks like he facilitated the formation of offshoots/splinters with his actions.
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WordWolf
"Us people you've never actually met are announcing that the people you've worked alongside
and have earned some of your respect are all evil. We're firing them and you'd better forget
about them and look to us as your leaders."
What did Martindale THINK?
He DIDN'T think!
lcm could only draw on what he'd learned. Unlike most of us at the same age, that was extremely limited.
Anything he learned in college (athletics) or in twi (the "lessons" vpw "taught" him by example)
where what he had to draw from.
vpw had previously fired a whole class of Corps (aka the Zero Corps), and later fired ANOTHER Corps
class, but allowed them to come crawling back, swearing allegiance to vpw.
THAT is what lcm learned from vpw.
lcm kept thinking this would work on MOST people-not just those Kool-Aid drinkers who were on staff
or Corps.
lcm almost certainly EXPECTED everyone else to genuflect toward New Knoxville whenever the band played.
That they would stick with the people who had earned their PERSONAL respect, the non-STRANGERS,
never occurred to him.
As it was, yes, he facilitated the biggest mass migration twi ever had.
He gave them frameworks, staff, parishoners, and MOTIVE.
If the ex-twi staffers were trained as well as other Christian groups trained, he would REALLY have been in
trouble. As it is, the internet only makes moves like this even EASIER now, so it would not surprise me
if ANOTHER migration happened with the few people left, without warning.
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waysider
LCM must have lost sight of one of the most critical bits of information he needed to make such a move.------It was all a scam to start with. VPW, on the other hand, was quite aware of that when he "fired" the first corps.
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Bolshevik
lcm was just one lemming among the thousands of others.
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skyrider
For the record....... :unsure:
Martindale's "loyalty letter" was sent out in March 1989. In the state of Indiana, the limb guy R1ch W@tk1ns, was standing firmly "in Cgeer's corner" at least by July 1987........he received a bi-monthly paycheck from twi for nearly TWO YEARS as he promoted Gartmore/Geer. When I visited the limb bookstore in March 1988, the current newletter from gartmore was next to the photocopy machine for anyone who wanted to copy extras and distribute them.
In April 1988, I attended the Indiana clergy meeting at the limb home. Five clergy were present and W@tkins was obviously throwing all his support to Geer/Gartmore..........all the while, W@tkins and his family received a twi-salary and lived at the Indiana limb home. Having had two unpleasant experiences with Cgeer, I was NO cgeer supporter........so the weekend meetings were a mixed bag, for me.
During this period of time, many region/limb guys were flying over to Gartmore to "stand with The Man." Whatever......I just didn't see it that way.
So, yeah..........martindale sent out the letter.
After two years of W@tkins living off his twi-salary......and fixing his boat in the limb garage......and promoting gartmore every chance he got..........two years and more!.........how long should these guys be allowing to waver between twi & gartmore??????
Imo.............WIERWILLE screwed it up! Wierwille ordained cgeer in '82 and sent him to Europe......wierwille fueled the competitiveness throughout the corps program, amongst leaders. Wierwille buddied with cgeer, shared the dog-training with cgeer, read the same books, the same paranoia, guns, etc. etc........all the while, giving lcm the spiritual nod.
And, imo.......if wierwille was half the man he proclaimed to be, he would have nipped this stuff in the bud back in 1982 - 1984. But no.........wierwille was too busy with his way production high country caravan, his "snow-way," and getting ready to ride his motorcycle to canada and back. Then, to top it all off..........wierwille runs to gartmore and, supposedly, unloads his guts on cgeer........and shortly thereafter dies.
I had NO idea what was specifically happening all around the country, but it was crazy in my neck of the woods. And, to this day........W@tkins is still an avid geer supporter.....just not salaried by the way international.
<_<
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waysider
I remember W@tk!ns from FLO. (He was FLO3 )
He and the Mrs. were house leaders their second year.
He was in charge of prison outreach for Ohio and she was in charge of childrens fellowships for Ohio.
They got lots and lots of preferential treatment and really knew how to milk the system.
There was a lot of resentment of them by the FLO4s because, while the W@tk!ns were treated like royalty, the rest of us were treated like serfs. I'm not a bit surprised to learn of the "double dipping".
There are other FLO here who may agree or disagree with that assessment.
I'm just stating my personal opinion.
Sorry---Guess that doesn't have anything to do with CA.
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Oakspear
I'd be interested to know the thought process behind the decisions by some to remain "officially" within TWI, i.e. collect a salary, outwardly remain part of the chain of command, etc. while supporting in word and deed those who, right or wrong, stood against TWI.
Did some think that G##r was going to ride in and take over as titular head of TWI? That some bottom-up change from within was going to take place?
I know that while I was involved in TWI, from time to time the rank and file, non-leaders and non-Corps twig leaders, would sometimes wait out the leadership turnover if they thought the appointed Limb Leader or Branch Leader was a jerk. They'd lay low, minimally participate, and see what the next guy would be like. By the mid-to-late 90's even this wasn't available any more, since the fringe participants were considered spiritually weak and guilty of "unproductive evil" and driven out.
I wonder if this wasn't part of the mindset of those who hung around while viewing the Trustees as "not doing the Word".
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waysider
Isn't that essencially what Wierwille did before he broke away from his denomination?
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Oakspear
I'd not thought of it that way, but yes, it is.
He didn't leave his denomination until 1957, but had his own private radio ministry from 1942 on, incorporated in 1947 and had the name changed to "The Way" in 1955. Started pushing speaking in tongues in 1951 (Tulsa trip) and began PFAL classes in 1953.
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Bolshevik
of mice, and rats
I wonder why anyone signed a green card, then go on to habitually lie about its benefits to their lives.
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Nottawayfer
That's why we were koolaid drinkers. If you repeat something over and over in your life even if you haven't experienced it, you don't want to appear to be a hypocrite. So you go along with it all. Remember what was said if you didn't understand something? We were told to hold it in abeyance. TWI was it's own culture, and most wanted to fit in and become spiritual powermen or women.
It's only those of us here who got real and saw how fake the promotion of TWI and it's classes were. It wasn't just about leaving a cult, it was about reviewing what you believe and looking at it for what it really was. Like being on Staff, which was supposed to be a privilege. I'm thinking why was it a privilege to have your life taken over and to live sub par and work like a dog for so little money? We were told it was for God, and He would bless us above and beyond for our service. We believed it at some point. I now think it was them dangling a carrot.
We weren't lying about the benefits to our lives. I know I was truly convinced that those in TWI were truly blessed and would receive more than any other Christian group because we were God's elite. We believed that because we heard it over and over and over and over. It's called brainwashing.
When I got out, I questioned a lot. But I didn't turn over everything I believed in one day after I left. It was a process.
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Ham
Yep..
maybe he was the master lemming..
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Jim
Totally agree. What a clown to pick as a best friend and confidant.
I might also add that the rank and file believers were ripe for a change by the mid 80's. In the 70's, twigs and branches were run by non-corps in a loving and relatively loose way. By the early 80's, an abundance of corps grads needing work were given those jobs. That took a lot of the local heart out of the branches and twigs and caused no small amount of unhappiness.
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now I see
Thanks for the added information everyone, I personally think one of the reasons why King Okie played the card of let's fire all the corps in the state in '89 is that he was so successful with that tactic in the previous years...I rember many individual firings in '88, even limb leaders and many corps were singled out individually with not much of a stir...many believers had never experienced this happening before and assumed there was a good reason for it. Next, King Okie pulled the loyalty stuff with hq staff and in residence corps in '88..and so on...I'm sure he believed he was doing the righteous thing, he learned these tactics from the best, his mentor, vpee.
Skyrider, I can vouch for the fact that vpee encouraged competitiveness amongst the top leaders in twi, I had a conversation with one of the men who was in the running for the presidency of twi before lcm was named, and he verified that they all, even Geer, were competing for the top spot. Vpee was no idiot, he had to have seen what a weanie king okie was, how he was a lap dog for vp, but even so, he picked the okie over his best friend Geer. I don't think vpee wanted his replacement to succeed, he never liked anyone doing anything better than him while he was alive, I can't see he'd want to be upstaged by Geer either.
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Tzaia
You can't train raise up and train leaders the way TWI trained leaders and expect anyone to be prepared to take over. The proof is in the fruit. Not one person who went through TWI's formal leadership training has been able to rise up and take it forward. None of the people who formed splinters has risen to the occasion and the original group is a shell of itself.
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now I see
True Tazia, good point, I just think vpee made a caculated choice for his replacement, and it wasn't the best man or the man most able to continue the mission...which old vic's mission was quite different than the rest of us, but anyway, I'm not so sure the reasons were made public.
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skyrider
EXACTLY!........after taking BG Leonard's class in 1953 and teaching it as his own, wierwille STAYED FOUR MORE YEARS in his denomination, sucking on the salary support......all the while, gaining momentum to eventually break away and do his own thing.
Same thing with many of those "splinter group guys" back in 1987-89. Like I stated, W@tkins was vocally supporting cgeer for at least TWO YEARS......salaried by twi. W@tkins wasn't planning to move out of the limb home either.
And...........did Cgeer really have any intentions of reconciling this whole "patriarch parade" and help martindale/trustees be fully in charge again??? I seriously doubt it. Heck, even by 1983 cgeer was bucking communication from f1nnegan as the worldwide outreach coordinator. Cgeer was already dictating what europe would and wouldn't do......cgeer made it known that the european corps would NOT be coming to the annual corps week/roa, but would come every THIRD year.
IMO.........patriarch paper or not, geer stance or not..........I think that all this splintering would have happened regardless. It's just the nature of things......when wierwille died, many of field corps leadership was in their mid 30s to early 40s and READY TO LEAD. State coordinators were ALREADY sending out monthly newsletters, traveling around their state, in the living rooms of these followers...........what the heck was twi (or gartmore) doing FOR THEM anyways??? And, california being so far away........no surprise there.
Yep, imo......the splintering was going to happen anyway. Geer only sped up the process.
<_<
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skyrider
I agree !
Wierwille had to stand at the top and REMAIN at the top.......and he sabotaged any unity or forward momentum just a month prior to his death. Nice move......
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