They've been trying to get HQ to run, where, if no abs came in for five years, they wouldn't have to change anything.
I still don't know what they hell they do there anyway.
Well......with a "home fellowship" system, MUCH of the operational expense is absorbed on the field. In other words, its out-of-pocket for every fellowship coordinator......buy songbooks, set-up meeting, heat/airconditioning, refreshments, gas expense for witnessing events, etc. etc. etc.
Hey.......it's about as close to a self-propetuating system that is being scammed today.
The further I've distanced myself from twi..........I believe its MILES APART from how the first century church truly operated when apostles and leaders traveled to the areas. Twi has morphed into a CENTRALIZED CORPORATION OF SALARIED DEAD-BEATS THAT FEED OFF THE HARD WORK OF OTHERS.
Now THAT is a revenue stream that is over-flowing its banks!!!!!
Well yea --but they cut themselves off from their own source by getting too greedy about it instead of being patient. By demanding money on the front end, they chased off a lot of people that would have been of huge benefit to them financially in the long run.
How many of those folks who dropped a few thousand in 1970's and 80's, after having made their real money will be leaving money in their will to them in 2020-2030?
Probably close to zero.
Thats one place where the real serious $$ of the established denominations lies.
and they'll get 0-instead of being rewarded big "for a lifetime of faithful service"
It looks like TWI has a lot of money now (and by my personal standards they do) but unless they generate some new stream it wont be sustainable over the long haul...eventually they'll go the way of the Shakers or other defunct groups
Well yea --but they cut themselves off from their own source by getting too greedy about it instead of being patient. By demanding money on the front end, they chased off a lot of people that would have been of huge benefit to them financially in the long run.
How many of those folks who dropped a few thousand in 1970's and 80's, after having made their real money will be leaving money in their will to them in 2020-2030?
Probably close to zero.
Thats one place where the real serious $$ of the established denominations lies.
and they'll get 0-instead of being rewarded big "for a lifetime of faithful service"
It looks like TWI has a lot of money now (and by my personal standards they do) but unless they generate some new stream it wont be sustainable over the long haul...eventually they'll go the way of the Shakers or other defunct groups
mstar........I agree with your assessment. I never said they were smart or anything........I simply was trying to explain their system.
Had twi been patient and smart.......they never would have driven away the faithful. Heck, if wierwille/martindale had any brains.....they would have heartily WELCOMED THE CHILDREN, THEIR ACTIVITIES, THEIR FRIENDS......the next generation would have padded the twi coffers greatly!!! Plus, like you said......the will donations to twi.
Heck, if twi's board had any brains......they'd get their butts in gear and hit the road, do more itineraries, get out with the people that faithfully give. Don't they realize that the field folk can SEE THE HYPOCRISY????
who knows.. with the worsening economy.. dropping tax base.. it wouldn't suprise me if the government raised the bar on what is or is not a "non profit" organization.. and bleed these scumbuckets dry..
the difference between twi and legitimate organizations is staggering.. we have a few foundations here, which exist to serve.. not be served.
who knows.. with the worsening economy.. dropping tax base.. it wouldn't suprise me if the government raised the bar on what is or is not a "non profit" organization.. and bleed these scumbuckets dry..
the difference between twi and legitimate organizations is staggering.. we have a few foundations here, which exist to serve.. not be served.
The "unbelievers" have far better manners..
Yeah......SO MUCH of twi's operation is in-house service at hq. The many departments seem to layer one over another to help assist the other.
What IS the service they provide on a non-profit basis? Rehashed classes?.......a weekly script-read "teaching" tape?...... micro-management skills?........dependent counseling?.........WHAT?
And........even if twi exists for another 20 years, it's aging staff are following in the steps of dorothy owens and rhoda wierwille, working into their 80s. They can call it "God's Household" or whatever.........but it has all the makings of a rural retirement facility.
This is why, on the "WOW--Success" thread, I said that I felt like the WOW program was a failure. It didn't create a core base of long term "investors". Wierwille's actions clearly demonstrate that he was keenly aware of where to place his financial priorities. He started teaching the tithe at a very early stage of the ministry's inception. That's why I think it was a scam from day-one and not just an honest effort that went astray. I honestly don't think he lost any sleep worrying what might happen when he was gone.
Remember, the tithe was minimum........a "cheerful giver" would give MORE. At the end of pfal, the little booklet Christians Should Be Prosperous was required reading......and follow-up emphasis at the twig level was recommended.
Oh yeah.
Required reading and pretty much required twig teaching at least a couple times a year.
I agree that the fat pig, moneywise was abundant sharing. OTOH, I'm hard pressed to think of any TWI product that wasn't profitable given their overhead and production costs. Look at SNS tapes. They were produced on equipment that belonged in the trash, with unpaid overtime labor and the cheapest materials that could be found. They had to make a dollar or two on every one shipped. Same with classes, ROA, advances, etc...
I agree that the fat pig, moneywise was abundant sharing. OTOH, I'm hard pressed to think of any TWI product that wasn't profitable given their overhead and production costs. Look at SNS tapes. They were produced on equipment that belonged in the trash, with unpaid overtime labor and the cheapest materials that could be found. They had to make a dollar or two on every one shipped. Same with classes, ROA, advances, etc...
Yeah......the fat pig provided the bacon for twi.
And, in keeping with this analogy.........little chickens, in the rundown chicken coop, kept eggs on the table for breakfast.
In filling out blue forms for some 18 years, branch reports, class reports, etc..........from the field perspective, I think it would be fair to say that nearly 95% of twi revenue was abundant sharing. Yes, there were the occasional entries for class registration or special class fees, but they BY FAR were the exception to the rule.
From the corporate perspective, twi's meager salary to its staff......and 50-70 interim corps each year (late 70s to mid 80s) were paid $75 a month.........yes, twi profited from tape subscriptions, book sales, major events, as some hq staff worked those 70+ hour weeks with no overtime.
Skyrider wrote: "and 50-70 interim corps each year (late 70s to mid 80s) were paid $75 a month........."
To be honest, by the year 1983-84, we interim Corps were paid (in Michael F*rt's words) "three hots and a cot" and one hundred dollars a month. I'm not sure when it went up from $75 to $100, but by 83-84, it was definitely $100.
An added perk for our final year is that we received $100 per month tuition/sponsorship credit toward our Way Corps obligations for each year we had served on staff in addition to the $30 per month credit for each year we had served as WOWs.
I gave (more than) my share over the years. I got raked over the coals more than once for deciding where my *ABS* was gonna go. I made it a point to point out (to an inquisitive branch leader inquiring about my ABS) that I gave more to corps sponsorship than I did to the twig so that I could help *leadership in training*.
I was (as you can guess) told in no uncertain terms, that that was unacceptable. Twi came first (docvic/ head honchos/ hdqtrs./ etc.), and corps sponsorship was somewhere way down the *totem pole*. I don't take $h!t from anyone, and I didn't then either. I had a very *interesting* talk with my branch leader about the subject, and (thankfully) he backed down. Twi was getting the money in the long run, wasn't it? I guess they looked through a different set of glasses than I did.
The fuggtards there at hdqtrs got more money than they knew what to do with, and still looked for more.
What's that verse about the *thirsty snake*?? It's applicable.
Skyrider wrote: "and 50-70 interim corps each year (late 70s to mid 80s) were paid $75 a month........."
To be honest, by the year 1983-84, we interim Corps were paid (in Michael F*rt's words) "three hots and a cot" and one hundred dollars a month. I'm not sure when it went up from $75 to $100, but by 83-84, it was definitely $100.
An added perk for our final year is that we received $100 per month tuition/sponsorship credit toward our Way Corps obligations for each year we had served on staff in addition to the $30 per month credit for each year we had served as WOWs.
Thanks.....okay, the interim corps salary went up $25 a month in 1983.
For many of us, working 9-10 hour days, plus brc setup and ushering, etc. etc......70 hours per week was norm.
At $100 a month..............we were paid about 35 cents an hour.
I believe in res corps get $30/mo, at least a few years ago.
to learn to do a little with a lot, er I mean, a lot with a little, no, to belittle a lot, no wait, to cast lots on little, uh, no, Lot's wife was a little salt pillar, err. . .
I remember, since I was a kid, I would give 20% of whatever I received.
10% is the minimum. Give this much so God won't let you get sick or die unexpectedly. Give a little more and your stuff will be protected.
15% percent was the point at which God would start to bless you back. You might get a return.
20% was just in case something was missed. That extra 5% covered any gift or paycheck that was overlooked, not accounted for by mistake.
Of course, time is of the essence. You must give right away. ASAP. Monthly checks (so as to keep accounts straight) were unacceptable. Give now. Give it all.
One night we went to fellowship (like we did every night ) and all the lights were off. We went in and candles were burning, linens draped over the tables, everyone sat around being really quiet.
The fellowship coordinator then told a story about how her son was just in a car accident. The car had hit snow bank or something, flew into the air, twisted on its side, went through a fork in a really big tree (in the air), then landed on its wheels. Everyone was okay.
She then said she had just given her tithe/ABS despite all good sense.
The moral of the story: ABS, you might just have a really cool car accident.
I kept giving 11-20% while working on Staff. Giving it right back to them.
The only problem was, how do you figure 10% of 3 peanuts and a potato skin? Do you go by mass? volume? surface area? Half a peanut and a a fifth of the skin?
To clarify Bolshevik's statement about the in-res Corps "getting" $30 a month ... we didn't GET anything ... we had to provide our OWN $30 a month ... that was the maximum amount we were supposed to spend in a month. I don't know about others, but most of the folks in my Corps (13) that I knew of spent as much as they wanted to. Even the Corps Coords would often make exceptions ... for folks needing car repairs, for instance, and one time I was coming back from the Indiana Campus from a dental appointment with an in-res Corps person (12) and she had permission from Michael F*rt to use her daddy's credit card (which he had sent her) to buy up to $500 worth of clothes and shoes. I am sure there are folks that "religiously" kept their budget books, but I would suspect in the later Corps (9 and after, at least) that people probably spent whatever they had/wanted/could get away with.
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Bolshevik
They've been trying to get HQ to run, where, if no abs came in for five years, they wouldn't have to change anything.
I still don't know what they hell they do there anyway.
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skyrider
Well......with a "home fellowship" system, MUCH of the operational expense is absorbed on the field. In other words, its out-of-pocket for every fellowship coordinator......buy songbooks, set-up meeting, heat/airconditioning, refreshments, gas expense for witnessing events, etc. etc. etc.
Hey.......it's about as close to a self-propetuating system that is being scammed today.
The further I've distanced myself from twi..........I believe its MILES APART from how the first century church truly operated when apostles and leaders traveled to the areas. Twi has morphed into a CENTRALIZED CORPORATION OF SALARIED DEAD-BEATS THAT FEED OFF THE HARD WORK OF OTHERS.
It just ain't right.
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mstar1
Well yea --but they cut themselves off from their own source by getting too greedy about it instead of being patient. By demanding money on the front end, they chased off a lot of people that would have been of huge benefit to them financially in the long run.
How many of those folks who dropped a few thousand in 1970's and 80's, after having made their real money will be leaving money in their will to them in 2020-2030?
Probably close to zero.
Thats one place where the real serious $$ of the established denominations lies.
and they'll get 0-instead of being rewarded big "for a lifetime of faithful service"
It looks like TWI has a lot of money now (and by my personal standards they do) but unless they generate some new stream it wont be sustainable over the long haul...eventually they'll go the way of the Shakers or other defunct groups
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skyrider
mstar........I agree with your assessment. I never said they were smart or anything........I simply was trying to explain their system.
Had twi been patient and smart.......they never would have driven away the faithful. Heck, if wierwille/martindale had any brains.....they would have heartily WELCOMED THE CHILDREN, THEIR ACTIVITIES, THEIR FRIENDS......the next generation would have padded the twi coffers greatly!!! Plus, like you said......the will donations to twi.
Heck, if twi's board had any brains......they'd get their butts in gear and hit the road, do more itineraries, get out with the people that faithfully give. Don't they realize that the field folk can SEE THE HYPOCRISY????
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Ham
who knows.. with the worsening economy.. dropping tax base.. it wouldn't suprise me if the government raised the bar on what is or is not a "non profit" organization.. and bleed these scumbuckets dry..
the difference between twi and legitimate organizations is staggering.. we have a few foundations here, which exist to serve.. not be served.
The "unbelievers" have far better manners..
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Ham
with the worsening economy and unemployment..
I wonder how long it will take people to actually assess what these sycophants really DO..
how much longer will people actually throw hard earned cash because they either feel guilty, or sorry for the afore mentioned sycophants..
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skyrider
Yeah......SO MUCH of twi's operation is in-house service at hq. The many departments seem to layer one over another to help assist the other.
What IS the service they provide on a non-profit basis? Rehashed classes?.......a weekly script-read "teaching" tape?...... micro-management skills?........dependent counseling?.........WHAT?
And........even if twi exists for another 20 years, it's aging staff are following in the steps of dorothy owens and rhoda wierwille, working into their 80s. They can call it "God's Household" or whatever.........but it has all the makings of a rural retirement facility.
<_<
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waysider
This is why, on the "WOW--Success" thread, I said that I felt like the WOW program was a failure. It didn't create a core base of long term "investors". Wierwille's actions clearly demonstrate that he was keenly aware of where to place his financial priorities. He started teaching the tithe at a very early stage of the ministry's inception. That's why I think it was a scam from day-one and not just an honest effort that went astray. I honestly don't think he lost any sleep worrying what might happen when he was gone.
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Jim
Oh yeah.
Required reading and pretty much required twig teaching at least a couple times a year.
I agree that the fat pig, moneywise was abundant sharing. OTOH, I'm hard pressed to think of any TWI product that wasn't profitable given their overhead and production costs. Look at SNS tapes. They were produced on equipment that belonged in the trash, with unpaid overtime labor and the cheapest materials that could be found. They had to make a dollar or two on every one shipped. Same with classes, ROA, advances, etc...
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skyrider
Yeah......the fat pig provided the bacon for twi.
And, in keeping with this analogy.........little chickens, in the rundown chicken coop, kept eggs on the table for breakfast.
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Bolshevik
It doesn't make any sense.
It's not like they're riding in limos and spending half the day at the pool. Weird weird people.
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skyrider
Of course, I gotta say..........
In filling out blue forms for some 18 years, branch reports, class reports, etc..........from the field perspective, I think it would be fair to say that nearly 95% of twi revenue was abundant sharing. Yes, there were the occasional entries for class registration or special class fees, but they BY FAR were the exception to the rule.
From the corporate perspective, twi's meager salary to its staff......and 50-70 interim corps each year (late 70s to mid 80s) were paid $75 a month.........yes, twi profited from tape subscriptions, book sales, major events, as some hq staff worked those 70+ hour weeks with no overtime.
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DogLover
Skyrider wrote: "and 50-70 interim corps each year (late 70s to mid 80s) were paid $75 a month........."
To be honest, by the year 1983-84, we interim Corps were paid (in Michael F*rt's words) "three hots and a cot" and one hundred dollars a month. I'm not sure when it went up from $75 to $100, but by 83-84, it was definitely $100.
An added perk for our final year is that we received $100 per month tuition/sponsorship credit toward our Way Corps obligations for each year we had served on staff in addition to the $30 per month credit for each year we had served as WOWs.
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dmiller
I gave (more than) my share over the years. I got raked over the coals more than once for deciding where my *ABS* was gonna go. I made it a point to point out (to an inquisitive branch leader inquiring about my ABS) that I gave more to corps sponsorship than I did to the twig so that I could help *leadership in training*.
I was (as you can guess) told in no uncertain terms, that that was unacceptable. Twi came first (docvic/ head honchos/ hdqtrs./ etc.), and corps sponsorship was somewhere way down the *totem pole*. I don't take $h!t from anyone, and I didn't then either. I had a very *interesting* talk with my branch leader about the subject, and (thankfully) he backed down. Twi was getting the money in the long run, wasn't it? I guess they looked through a different set of glasses than I did.
The fuggtards there at hdqtrs got more money than they knew what to do with, and still looked for more.
What's that verse about the *thirsty snake*?? It's applicable.
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skyrider
Thanks.....okay, the interim corps salary went up $25 a month in 1983.
For many of us, working 9-10 hour days, plus brc setup and ushering, etc. etc......70 hours per week was norm.
At $100 a month..............we were paid about 35 cents an hour.
<_<
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Bolshevik
I believe in res corps get $30/mo, at least a few years ago.
to learn to do a little with a lot, er I mean, a lot with a little, no, to belittle a lot, no wait, to cast lots on little, uh, no, Lot's wife was a little salt pillar, err. . .
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Bolshevik
I remember, since I was a kid, I would give 20% of whatever I received.
10% is the minimum. Give this much so God won't let you get sick or die unexpectedly. Give a little more and your stuff will be protected.
15% percent was the point at which God would start to bless you back. You might get a return.
20% was just in case something was missed. That extra 5% covered any gift or paycheck that was overlooked, not accounted for by mistake.
Of course, time is of the essence. You must give right away. ASAP. Monthly checks (so as to keep accounts straight) were unacceptable. Give now. Give it all.
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Bolshevik
One night we went to fellowship (like we did every night
) and all the lights were off. We went in and candles were burning, linens draped over the tables, everyone sat around being really quiet.
The fellowship coordinator then told a story about how her son was just in a car accident. The car had hit snow bank or something, flew into the air, twisted on its side, went through a fork in a really big tree (in the air), then landed on its wheels. Everyone was okay.
She then said she had just given her tithe/ABS despite all good sense.
The moral of the story: ABS, you might just have a really cool car accident.
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copenhagen
I guess those Duke boys from the Dukes of Hazzard were giving 50%!
They did it every week and never got hurt....
copenhagen
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waysider
Buying favors from God.
Is it really any more complicated than that?
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Bolshevik
I kept giving 11-20% while working on Staff. Giving it right back to them.
The only problem was, how do you figure 10% of 3 peanuts and a potato skin? Do you go by mass? volume? surface area? Half a peanut and a a fifth of the skin?
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Bolshevik
wonder how many old folks base their retirement on ABS
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DogLover
To clarify Bolshevik's statement about the in-res Corps "getting" $30 a month ... we didn't GET anything ... we had to provide our OWN $30 a month ... that was the maximum amount we were supposed to spend in a month. I don't know about others, but most of the folks in my Corps (13) that I knew of spent as much as they wanted to. Even the Corps Coords would often make exceptions ... for folks needing car repairs, for instance, and one time I was coming back from the Indiana Campus from a dental appointment with an in-res Corps person (12) and she had permission from Michael F*rt to use her daddy's credit card (which he had sent her) to buy up to $500 worth of clothes and shoes. I am sure there are folks that "religiously" kept their budget books, but I would suspect in the later Corps (9 and after, at least) that people probably spent whatever they had/wanted/could get away with.
Just mho.
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Bolshevik
what year was corps 13? I was talking about corps 33/34 or about that. I believe numbers are every other year now.
$30 back then, compared to $30 now. I was just saying they learn to think small. So they can teach others to think small.
The other day I found a paper clip on the ground. It was new and shiny. What a blessing. I needed a paper clip.
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