I think Andy Serkis really deserves at least an Oscar nom for his portrayal of Smeagol/Gollum, since he did really act the whole thing with the other actors in a motion-capture/greenscreen suit.
Zix, do you know if one person modelled the face? Or if it was all from raw CGI? Or a mix of different face models?
I doubt this is the case, but I thought he looked a bit like a characture (sp?) of William Defoe myself (with the nose removed and the eyes enlarged, of course).
The First Age ended with Melkor/Morgoth being defeated and destroyed. The Valar and Maiar as well as the Vanyar (the mysterious "Fair Elves" that don't really come into the Middle Eath tales) come to kick some butt.
The Elves are invited to come back to Valar-land, and most of them do. A group of Noldor (apparently the troublemaker Elves) sets up shop near the future site of Khâzad-Dûm (Moria) and some Teleri Elves stick around as well (Celeborn and also Legolas' dad).
The Valar want to help out the Men who fought beside the Elves, so they give them this nifty island halfway bewtween Valar-land and Middle Earth: Numenor. Elros (brother of Elrond), the product of several generations of mixed Man-Elf marriages, becomes first king of Numenor.
Meanwhile, with most of the good guys off on their islands, Sauron sets himself up as a supreme evil king, but not before working a deal with the Noldorin Elves to make some nifty rings of power. The elves make three for themselves, but Sauron whips up a bunch for himself, including The One Ring to rule the wearers of the others. He sets up his kingdom but is foiled by the Numenorians who kick his butt and take him back to Numenor as a captive.
Sauron convinces the King to challenge the Valar which gets Numenor sunk (Atlantis!). Sauron goes back to Middle Earth to restablish his kingdom.
Elendil, a lord of Numenor, escapes with his family and loyal followers and sets up the kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor. When he is strong enough he attacks and defeats Sauron, but he and his son Anarion are killed in the final battle. His eldest son Isildur takes the ring from Sauron.
The heirs of Isildur's brother Anarion rule Gondor, the southern kingdom, but eventually die out. The heirs of Isildur rule Arnor, the northern kingdom. Arnor splits into three mini-kingdoms and finally is destroyed. The heirs if Isildur live on as the Rangers, including Aragorn, aka Strider.
Oakspear
...goin' down to Rosedale, got my rider by my side...and I'm standin' at the crossroads...
I agree with Zixar, that Andy Serkis deserves an award for his portrayal of Smeagol/Gollum. In the "Cinefex" magazine it said that Gollum had much less of a role in the film until Jackson saw how well Serkis was doing it. Jackson liked it so much, he beefed up Serkis' part.
In the earlier stages of filming, Serkis wore a mask over his face when he was acting in his body suit, because they thought his facial features would interfere with the animators. Later, they put motion-capture dots all over his face so they could get his expressions. They went back and digitally put Serkis facial movements into the earlier footage.
This may seem goofy, but Gollum reminded me of a cross between Barney Fife and Peter Lorrie.
Thanks for more of the background, Oakspear.
Last night I snagged a copy of GamesWorkshop's model of Helm's Deep. It's just the gate of the Hornburg with two adjoining sections of wall, but it's cool. I've got the GW Uruk Hai engineers with their puny little plastic ladders, but I'm going to build models of the giant ladders using kitchen matchsticks and wooden coffee stirrers. Need more Uruk Hai models! I've only got about sixty so far.
Sunday, I started drawing a four-foot by six-foot map of Middle Earth on butcher paper so I can run some games of "Ring Bearer", a strategic level miniatures game portraying the war of the rings, originally published back in '75.
Love,
Steve
[This message was edited by Steve Lortz on January 15, 2003 at 5:35.]
Frodo gets Smeagol/Gollum to admit that he was a Stoor Hobbit at one time. Not sure if this photo is something that was on the Two Towers extended version or if it will be in Return of the King during flashbacks. Since I never saw the extended version. But thought a cool photo.
Wordwolf - You asked "Anybody know how come the scene in Bree, in FotR was so different in the common room?"
Among the features on the extended version DVD of FotR are a number of commentary tracks where you can listen to various people talk about the movie while you're watching it. On the director/writers commentary track, Peter Jackson explained that they didn't have enough time (in the movie, not during filming) to include a song, and they also felt that sort of thing would slow down the dramatic momentum of the film. They also wanted to make Frodo's disappearance look more obviously like a trick of the ring's evil will, rather than a chance accident.
I feel a lot more informed after watching the green box commentary. I was glad to see that all the writers felt bad to some degree about having to leave out certain scenes - mostly because of time constraints. I still think they should have kept in all the gifts of Galadriel and the elves because they have already come up in T2T.
I have yet to watch the 3rd & 4th disks of the set... also because of time constraints!!!
Today I saw T2T for the third time. Took two of my kids with me.
We all noted how Frodo was starting to look like a drug addict by the end. One of my sons hadn't even seen FOTR, but understood immediately how the ring was addictive and controlling.
I saw the scene with the hovering Nazgul in Osgilaith in a different light this time. The first time I thought he was offering up the ring to the Ringwraith, but what he is really doing is standing in the open and slowing putting the ring on his finger. Although this scene does not appear in the books, it is something of a synthesis of several scenes in the books where Frodo feels compelled to put the ring on when the Nazgul are near, even going back to the Black Rider in the Shire.
The scene emphasizes that the ring "wants" to go back to it's master, is in fact a part of Sauron.
I noted this time how subtly they are highlighting Aragorn's inate leadership qualities without beating us over the head with it. Legolas and Gimli fight at his side with a fierce loyalty; Legolas accepts his rebuke of "then I shall die as one of them" and gains a greater respect for him; Gimli is willing to take on a whole company of orcs, just him and Aragorn ("c'mon, we can take 'em); Theoden, who proudly resists him at first gradually sees his skill as a warrior and leader and rides out with him in a last ditch effort that gains them some time; Eowyn is not in love with just his rugged good looks, but with the kingly way with which he comports himself.
The character of Eowyn came more alive for me this time. Shots of her face, showing fierce emotions at key spots in the movie, tell quite a bit. She wants to fight, she wants to lead, she wants to make a difference for her people.
Favorite bits:
Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli beating up on Wormtongue's goons as Gandalf gets ready to exorcise Theoden.
The disarming scene at the threshhold of Medusheld.
I warned my sons about Legolas' physics defying horse mount: they laughed their heads off.
Legolas standing alone on the hill, picking off Warg riders one by one with his arrows.
Four times anyone?
Oakspear
"We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling"
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sirguessalot
Indeed. It seems that the story DOES change with the retelling of it, after all.
With pity and thanks to poor Smeagol,
Todd
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Zixar
I think Andy Serkis really deserves at least an Oscar nom for his portrayal of Smeagol/Gollum, since he did really act the whole thing with the other actors in a motion-capture/greenscreen suit.
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sirguessalot
Yeah, Gollum was the star of 2T - imo.
Zix, do you know if one person modelled the face? Or if it was all from raw CGI? Or a mix of different face models?
I doubt this is the case, but I thought he looked a bit like a characture (sp?) of William Defoe myself (with the nose removed and the eyes enlarged, of course).
Todd
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Oakspear
More Background
The First Age ended with Melkor/Morgoth being defeated and destroyed. The Valar and Maiar as well as the Vanyar (the mysterious "Fair Elves" that don't really come into the Middle Eath tales) come to kick some butt.
The Elves are invited to come back to Valar-land, and most of them do. A group of Noldor (apparently the troublemaker Elves) sets up shop near the future site of Khâzad-Dûm (Moria) and some Teleri Elves stick around as well (Celeborn and also Legolas' dad).
The Valar want to help out the Men who fought beside the Elves, so they give them this nifty island halfway bewtween Valar-land and Middle Earth: Numenor. Elros (brother of Elrond), the product of several generations of mixed Man-Elf marriages, becomes first king of Numenor.
Meanwhile, with most of the good guys off on their islands, Sauron sets himself up as a supreme evil king, but not before working a deal with the Noldorin Elves to make some nifty rings of power. The elves make three for themselves, but Sauron whips up a bunch for himself, including The One Ring to rule the wearers of the others. He sets up his kingdom but is foiled by the Numenorians who kick his butt and take him back to Numenor as a captive.
Sauron convinces the King to challenge the Valar which gets Numenor sunk (Atlantis!). Sauron goes back to Middle Earth to restablish his kingdom.
Elendil, a lord of Numenor, escapes with his family and loyal followers and sets up the kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor. When he is strong enough he attacks and defeats Sauron, but he and his son Anarion are killed in the final battle. His eldest son Isildur takes the ring from Sauron.
The heirs of Isildur's brother Anarion rule Gondor, the southern kingdom, but eventually die out. The heirs of Isildur rule Arnor, the northern kingdom. Arnor splits into three mini-kingdoms and finally is destroyed. The heirs if Isildur live on as the Rangers, including Aragorn, aka Strider.
Oakspear
...goin' down to Rosedale, got my rider by my side...and I'm standin' at the crossroads...
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Steve Lortz
I agree with Zixar, that Andy Serkis deserves an award for his portrayal of Smeagol/Gollum. In the "Cinefex" magazine it said that Gollum had much less of a role in the film until Jackson saw how well Serkis was doing it. Jackson liked it so much, he beefed up Serkis' part.
In the earlier stages of filming, Serkis wore a mask over his face when he was acting in his body suit, because they thought his facial features would interfere with the animators. Later, they put motion-capture dots all over his face so they could get his expressions. They went back and digitally put Serkis facial movements into the earlier footage.
This may seem goofy, but Gollum reminded me of a cross between Barney Fife and Peter Lorrie.
Thanks for more of the background, Oakspear.
Last night I snagged a copy of GamesWorkshop's model of Helm's Deep. It's just the gate of the Hornburg with two adjoining sections of wall, but it's cool. I've got the GW Uruk Hai engineers with their puny little plastic ladders, but I'm going to build models of the giant ladders using kitchen matchsticks and wooden coffee stirrers. Need more Uruk Hai models! I've only got about sixty so far.
Sunday, I started drawing a four-foot by six-foot map of Middle Earth on butcher paper so I can run some games of "Ring Bearer", a strategic level miniatures game portraying the war of the rings, originally published back in '75.
Love,
Steve
[This message was edited by Steve Lortz on January 15, 2003 at 5:35.]
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ChattyKathy
Frodo gets Smeagol/Gollum to admit that he was a Stoor Hobbit at one time. Not sure if this photo is something that was on the Two Towers extended version or if it will be in Return of the King during flashbacks. Since I never saw the extended version. But thought a cool photo.
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Raf
There is no Two Towers extended version, yet.
The still photo you posted is from Return of the King.
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Steve Lortz
Cool photo. It'll be interesting to watch Andy Serkis' actual face as he acts.
Love,
Steve
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ChattyKathy
Thanks yall. I can't wait for Return Of The King.
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WordWolf
Here's a little piece of obscure Tolkien trivia
you may find interesting. (Or not.)
The original version of "the Hobbit" (Bilbo's
journey, during which he gets the ring) has that
scene done differently. In the original,
Bilbo and Gollum DO have the riddle game.
However, Bilbo wins fair & square, and Gollum
give him the ring as a present. Supposedly,
Bilbo's talk of the ring as a "present" was one
of the things that got Gandalf suspicious.
(Gollum, somewhere in the trilogy, refers to
the ring as his "birthday present"- why will
become clear when the 3rd movie is released.)
Supposedly, the current version of the book is
what actually happened, the original is what
Bilbo SAID happened.
The current one has Bilbo stumble and slip the
ring in his pocket unconsciously when he puts
out his hands to get up. During the riddle
game, Bilbo, trying to think of another riddle,
puts his hands in his pockets. "What have I got
in my pockets?" he mumbles absent-mindedly.
Gollum claims that, since it's not a proper
riddle, he should get 3 guesses. He misses, &
goes away to get something.
:)--> (He's had
enough of this-he's going to get the ring, turn
invisible, and kill Bilbo.) When he comes up
blank, he realizes-too late-what "the Bagginnss"
had in his pocket! He comes running back-and
past Bilbo, whose finger had slipped into the
ring.
For those of you who wondered how Gollum knew
the names "Baggins" and "Shire", Bilbo
introduced himself properly when he met Gollum.
I'll have to check the opening of "T2T" for that
glow, Zix. Thanks for pointing it out.
Anybody know how come the scene in Bree, in
FotR was so different in the common room?
I thought JRR's original version of what Merry
& Pippin were saying, & Frodo vanishing, was a
LOT more plausible than the movie version.
They're running for their lives, & all day,
Frodo doesn't think to mention he's travelling
under an alias? Barleyman Butterbur, the
innkeeper,doesn't have a note from Gandalf here.
It would have helped, I thought.
Then again, I thought that the idea of Strider
carrying around the pieces of Narsil (in the
book) was a stupid concept from the beginning.
Guy travels light, & his main weapon is broken?
Plus, he brings it on the road, where it can be
lost?
Anybody know if there's any plan to get special
knives for Merry & Pippin, to replace the ones
that they were supposed to get in the missing
barrow-wight scene? (Sam, too, if I remember
correctly.) It DID become an issue in the 3rd
book, & I hope that scene stays intact.
Frodo's barrow-knife, as you recall, was
broken when the King of the Nazgul and Frodo
faced off at the ford at the edge of Rivendell.
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Zixar
WordWolf: Galadriel now gives Merry and Pippin elf-knives in the restored Gift scene in the Green Box Edition of FOTR.
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Steve Lortz
Wordwolf - You asked "Anybody know how come the scene in Bree, in FotR was so different in the common room?"
Among the features on the extended version DVD of FotR are a number of commentary tracks where you can listen to various people talk about the movie while you're watching it. On the director/writers commentary track, Peter Jackson explained that they didn't have enough time (in the movie, not during filming) to include a song, and they also felt that sort of thing would slow down the dramatic momentum of the film. They also wanted to make Frodo's disappearance look more obviously like a trick of the ring's evil will, rather than a chance accident.
Love,
Steve
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Steve Lortz
Hey, Rafael - Do you ever write fiction?
Love,
Steve
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Hope R.
I feel a lot more informed after watching the green box commentary. I was glad to see that all the writers felt bad to some degree about having to leave out certain scenes - mostly because of time constraints. I still think they should have kept in all the gifts of Galadriel and the elves because they have already come up in T2T.
I have yet to watch the 3rd & 4th disks of the set... also because of time constraints!!!
Hope R. color>size>face>
Life, what is it but a dream? - Lewis Carroll
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Oakspear
Today I saw T2T for the third time. Took two of my kids with me.
We all noted how Frodo was starting to look like a drug addict by the end. One of my sons hadn't even seen FOTR, but understood immediately how the ring was addictive and controlling.
I saw the scene with the hovering Nazgul in Osgilaith in a different light this time. The first time I thought he was offering up the ring to the Ringwraith, but what he is really doing is standing in the open and slowing putting the ring on his finger. Although this scene does not appear in the books, it is something of a synthesis of several scenes in the books where Frodo feels compelled to put the ring on when the Nazgul are near, even going back to the Black Rider in the Shire.
The scene emphasizes that the ring "wants" to go back to it's master, is in fact a part of Sauron.
I noted this time how subtly they are highlighting Aragorn's inate leadership qualities without beating us over the head with it. Legolas and Gimli fight at his side with a fierce loyalty; Legolas accepts his rebuke of "then I shall die as one of them" and gains a greater respect for him; Gimli is willing to take on a whole company of orcs, just him and Aragorn ("c'mon, we can take 'em); Theoden, who proudly resists him at first gradually sees his skill as a warrior and leader and rides out with him in a last ditch effort that gains them some time; Eowyn is not in love with just his rugged good looks, but with the kingly way with which he comports himself.
The character of Eowyn came more alive for me this time. Shots of her face, showing fierce emotions at key spots in the movie, tell quite a bit. She wants to fight, she wants to lead, she wants to make a difference for her people.
Favorite bits:
Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli beating up on Wormtongue's goons as Gandalf gets ready to exorcise Theoden.
The disarming scene at the threshhold of Medusheld.
I warned my sons about Legolas' physics defying horse mount: they laughed their heads off.
Legolas standing alone on the hill, picking off Warg riders one by one with his arrows.
Four times anyone?
Oakspear
"We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling"
Henri Poincare
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