I had never heard that Martindale said that. Unfreakinbelievable comes to mind right away.
It makes perfect sense if Craig was corrupt and willing to hold on to anyone he could while the ministry crumbled all around him.
It makes sense if he was desperately seeking to say anything that may give him the appearance of being able to say with the semblance of authority what TWI should do next.
But other than these types of reasonings, I don't think anyone can make sense of what he said.
Couple thoughts - when Martindale declared "mission accomplished!" I wasn't there so I never really learned the details. Were there any more?
Way back when, VPW defined WOW in basic terms - a "twig" fellowship in every community. I believe that's the correct term, "community". He spoke about that on a few occasions where it was explained this way - a large city like say, Cinncinati, might have several twigs because there were many groupings of people, homes, large neighborhoods and a lot of people spread out over a large area. A relatively small city like Manhattan would also have several twigs because of the concentration of numbers of people there. And a large city with low population might have less, etc.
This was, at one point, actually one of the jobs of the Corps, to establish some sense of how many/and where in their state. I don't think it was ever really acted on in a practical way and the whole effort became more of a quota basis for running PFAL classes in the Corps.
So, there was some level setting to be done, although it wasn't called that at the time.
I was also ingest into this the term "available" - that is, a twig in every community meant that "The Word" was "Available" in that city, town, etc. Everyone may not have "heard the Word" yet, but it was available in an ongoing effort and presence by those twigs.
And all of that meant of course, PFAL - registering and completion of PFAL.
So Craig would have had to redefine "WOW" to declare it accomplished. It clearly wasn't and wasn't anywhere even near close, by the earlier version.
I felt on hearing about this that he was anxious to "get it over with" and move on. In fact, when I heard later that he'd really moved ahead with this whole idea I realized - this guy's in trouble, he needed prayer from anyone and everyone, regardless of what I thought of him at that time, as he had to be nuts, literally.
Plus, where was the quality control? Who checked!? Did Manhattan have 15 established Twigs? Dayton? How about Las Vegas? 10? 15?
My recollection of the topic of this thread is that Word Over the World was everyone having the opportunity to hear the rightly divided word...as in the word over the united states, everyone having had an opportunity to say yes or no to the rightly divided word, that was why there were WOW ambassadors. And with regard to word over the United States, I believe that was accomplished after TWI had that nationally broadcast show...I wasn't involved with TWI then, but I watched the program, like a half and hour broadcast on the television....
Getting a twig in every community of like over 5 thousand was a goal, but the focus I remember was "the opportunity", as in one on one witnessing to everyone in the United States...
So Craig would have had to redefine "WOW" to declare it accomplished. It clearly wasn't and wasn't anywhere even near close, by the earlier version.
I remember it the way you do socks, a fellowship in every community, "making the Word available" to anyone in that community. By the time Martindale made his announcement, it was clear that we were going backwards in accomplishing the goal of Word Over the World, TWI never recovered numerically from the Graet Exodus of the late 80's.
When Martindale announced that the Word was over the World, he told us that he got this information by revelation, not by comparing the original goal with the then-present day results. Afterwards, he and John Reynolds tried to show us how isolated fellowships run by U.S. military people proved that the Word was "available" to that entire region of the world, or how twigs run by expatriate Zaireans in France meant that the Word was over Europe.
After this announcement the idea that lack of growth in an area was indicative of that area having rejected The Word became popular. Whole twigs in these cities (or states) were advised to move if they wanted to "move the Word". This happened in Omaha a few years before I was kicked out. By the time I did leave, there was just one anemic twig in the whole state of Nebraska, which was classified as an outlying area of the Kansas City branch.
I remember it the way you do socks, a fellowship in every community, "making the Word available" to anyone in that community. By the time Martindale made his announcement, it was clear that we were going backwards in accomplishing the goal of Word Over the World, TWI never recovered numerically from the Graet Exodus of the late 80's.
When Martindale announced that the Word was over the World, he told us that he got this information by revelation, not by comparing the original goal with the then-present day results. Afterwards, he and John Reynolds tried to show us how isolated fellowships run by U.S. military people proved that the Word was "available" to that entire region of the world, or how twigs run by expatriate Zaireans in France meant that the Word was over Europe.
After this announcement the idea that lack of growth in an area was indicative of that area having rejected The Word became popular. Whole twigs in these cities (or states) were advised to move if they wanted to "move the Word". This happened in Omaha a few years before I was kicked out. By the time I did leave, there was just one anemic twig in the whole state of Nebraska, which was classified as an outlying area of the Kansas City branch.
yeah, I remember the revelation thing. the gyst was, anyone who wanted to know god had access, ergo, everyone who rejected twi wasn't worth our time and whole cities were lost to the "adversary" because they were god rejectors. I remember a lot of people being uprooted because it was time for remaining believers to congregate together. people even got hassled for living 10 miles away from their FC's house. the expectation was you wanted to live in the same neighborhoods and send your kids to the same schools.
"Word over the world" was the carrot on the stick...Lcm not only did away with the wow program, the roa and the pfal class...but he also took away the GOAL!...what a moron....talk about killing the cash cow...
"Word over the world" was the carrot on the stick...Lcm not only did away with the wow program, the roa and the pfal class...but he also took away the GOAL!...what a moron....talk about killing the cash cow...
But why he did that, he was mad, crazy?
During one Rock, I think it was the last one 1995 he showed how many PFAL they have play. So TWI recovering from the exodus of the fog years.
Why he pressured every one to move the word, put the way corps full time, for nothing?
oaks, that reminds me of a story I heard when I was young, from a Nun, at school. (a "Sister of the Holy Cross" as their order was known). It was about how fortunate we were in the U.S. to have so much, and she told the story of how her ancestors in Ireland had survived in the Great Famine of the 1800's. She said that the story went, their family had a single piece of meat, beef, and they would stew that piece of meat over and over with vegetables and then remove the meat and store it and re-stew it over and over.
In that way their vegetable soup would pick up the flavor and some of the nutrition from the beef over time. Basically they just dipped it iinto the stew, removed it and made their beef last that way.
So they had "beef stew" every night.
Martindale's"WOW was much the same. Sounds like if someone flew over a city, that city had a chance to "hear the Word". Drive through and stop for gas, they had their chance. Couple of service men or women stationed for a few months - it's over.
Clearly, by that time he'd given up any real hope of ever seeing the Way cohere in the way it had been. After that, maintenance. Try to keep what you've got, clean it up and move on. He had a way of "logicing" out things in his thinking, connecting odd bits and pieces he'd pick up, grasping at "inspiration" and coming to outlandish conclusions. Not a pretty picture.
Before the last Rock of Ages festival in 1995 LCM stated that The Word was Already Over the World, that the vision than God gave VPW was complete and that the rightly divided God´s Word was available to the ones that were hungry.
<snip>
what do you think?
Prior to martindale's declaration that "the word was over the world".......he assigned John R3ynolds, the international outreach coordinator, to put together a report. In knee-jerk fashion, John spear-headed this requested report by documenting such things as: 1) adding a history of countries where fellowships and classes were available, 2) where military had been stationed, 3) translation work of priority languages, 4) the Zaire believers' impact on the continent of Africa, and other aspects.
Of course, the standard indoctrination in twi was to present this "revelation" and "documentation" to the corps FIRST...... and once they are "on board," THEN declare it to the twi followers. When manipulation and intimidation rule, like in twi, information is delivered and responses are gauged before proceeding to level 2. The corps were the troops to help disperse information, squelch questioning and carry out conformity.
Imo.......by 1995, martindale was ready to step away from living in wierwille's shadow. Martindale had, now, distanced himself from "the fog years" by some six years and was ready to STAMP HIS MARK on twi's legacy. On several corps teachings, lcm reiterated that HIS MINISTRY WAS INDICATIVE OF THE NUMBER 2........twi's 2nd corps director, twi's 2nd president, 2nd this, 2nd that. He was "the man who established what wierwille started." And, he was going to re-do vic's foundational class.
As one reflects back on the context of this "the word is over the world"........here is the context:
1) 1993 - 1994.............genuine suspicion, homo purge, living sanctified
2) 1995.......................declaration of "word over the world, last ROA, and "revelation" to put corps full-time
3) 1996.......................prevailing word terminology, new lcm WAP class, crossing over into "promised land"
4) 1997.......................all wierwille stuff was "old-wine skins," new intermediate class (WAP), more legalism
5) 1998.......................new adv class (WAP)....all old grads need new updated class.....Martindale-mania
6) 1998.......................June Advanced Class.......martindale is caught having sex with a married corps woman
7) 1999.......................P & F Allen leave hq after confronting lcm on sexual predation
In the context of "revelations".........it should be noted that martindale's "revelation" of all corps going full-time and taking the ministry to great heights FAILED MISERABLY. Within months of this 1995 "revelation" the trunk department was scrambling to handle the overwhelming financial responsibility of having all the field corps on twi's payroll. Yes, within two months, martindale was yelling on corps meetings to sniff out any corps that were not "truly corps." Another witch-hunt was in progress......it was crazy.........again!!!
Twi's concept of "word over the world" was wierwille's narcisstic attempt and agenda of having pfal classes running worldwide so that "EVERYBODY WILL LISTEN TO ME." Clearly, in the end..........imo, this re-packaging of "pfal concepts and cult servitude" had very little resemblance of God's Authorship of His Word to the ends of the earth: Acts 1:8
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
8
8
6
18
Popular Days
Jan 27
21
Jan 28
21
Feb 3
14
Feb 5
9
Top Posters In This Topic
themex 8 posts
waysider 8 posts
potato 6 posts
Bolshevik 18 posts
Popular Days
Jan 27 2009
21 posts
Jan 28 2009
21 posts
Feb 3 2009
14 posts
Feb 5 2009
9 posts
JeffSjo
I had never heard that Martindale said that. Unfreakinbelievable comes to mind right away.
It makes perfect sense if Craig was corrupt and willing to hold on to anyone he could while the ministry crumbled all around him.
It makes sense if he was desperately seeking to say anything that may give him the appearance of being able to say with the semblance of authority what TWI should do next.
But other than these types of reasonings, I don't think anyone can make sense of what he said.
Thank you Themex for supplying the quote.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
How do you know the spinoffs are getting "stronger"?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
themex
Well they are not dying, they are growing really slow and in some form they are connected, have a clear objective to move the Word.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Interesting thought, there.
Couple thoughts - when Martindale declared "mission accomplished!" I wasn't there so I never really learned the details. Were there any more?
Way back when, VPW defined WOW in basic terms - a "twig" fellowship in every community. I believe that's the correct term, "community". He spoke about that on a few occasions where it was explained this way - a large city like say, Cinncinati, might have several twigs because there were many groupings of people, homes, large neighborhoods and a lot of people spread out over a large area. A relatively small city like Manhattan would also have several twigs because of the concentration of numbers of people there. And a large city with low population might have less, etc.
This was, at one point, actually one of the jobs of the Corps, to establish some sense of how many/and where in their state. I don't think it was ever really acted on in a practical way and the whole effort became more of a quota basis for running PFAL classes in the Corps.
So, there was some level setting to be done, although it wasn't called that at the time.
I was also ingest into this the term "available" - that is, a twig in every community meant that "The Word" was "Available" in that city, town, etc. Everyone may not have "heard the Word" yet, but it was available in an ongoing effort and presence by those twigs.
And all of that meant of course, PFAL - registering and completion of PFAL.
So Craig would have had to redefine "WOW" to declare it accomplished. It clearly wasn't and wasn't anywhere even near close, by the earlier version.
I felt on hearing about this that he was anxious to "get it over with" and move on. In fact, when I heard later that he'd really moved ahead with this whole idea I realized - this guy's in trouble, he needed prayer from anyone and everyone, regardless of what I thought of him at that time, as he had to be nuts, literally.
Plus, where was the quality control?
Who checked!? Did Manhattan have 15 established Twigs? Dayton? How about Las Vegas? 10? 15?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
do you mean they communicate with one another or they just have a common purpose?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
themex
Both. I think that it is like in Acts 8:4 "Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went".
I think that God guided VPW to what was available to that day and time. Not because he was especial, but because he was faithful to do so.
VPW taught to others the Way Corps, LCM many more at least 40,000.
Then VPW pass away. The devil attack.
ACTS 8:4 and working God´s rightly divided Word.
We as body of believers lerned more tings, the bible does not take place of the absent Christ.
There is no absent Christ so we do not need a man of God.
LCM failes as the human, man, that he is. But he formed the best Believing believers of all times.
ACts 2:42
and all over againg but more strong or stronger.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mchud11
My recollection of the topic of this thread is that Word Over the World was everyone having the opportunity to hear the rightly divided word...as in the word over the united states, everyone having had an opportunity to say yes or no to the rightly divided word, that was why there were WOW ambassadors. And with regard to word over the United States, I believe that was accomplished after TWI had that nationally broadcast show...I wasn't involved with TWI then, but I watched the program, like a half and hour broadcast on the television....
Getting a twig in every community of like over 5 thousand was a goal, but the focus I remember was "the opportunity", as in one on one witnessing to everyone in the United States...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Hi Themex,
I don't think that I understand everything in your post, but I've got my ears on.
JEFF
Link to comment
Share on other sites
themex
Thank you JeffSjo.
Edited by themexLink to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
When Martindale announced that the Word was over the World, he told us that he got this information by revelation, not by comparing the original goal with the then-present day results. Afterwards, he and John Reynolds tried to show us how isolated fellowships run by U.S. military people proved that the Word was "available" to that entire region of the world, or how twigs run by expatriate Zaireans in France meant that the Word was over Europe.
After this announcement the idea that lack of growth in an area was indicative of that area having rejected The Word became popular. Whole twigs in these cities (or states) were advised to move if they wanted to "move the Word". This happened in Omaha a few years before I was kicked out. By the time I did leave, there was just one anemic twig in the whole state of Nebraska, which was classified as an outlying area of the Kansas City branch.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
yeah, I remember the revelation thing. the gyst was, anyone who wanted to know god had access, ergo, everyone who rejected twi wasn't worth our time and whole cities were lost to the "adversary" because they were god rejectors. I remember a lot of people being uprooted because it was time for remaining believers to congregate together. people even got hassled for living 10 miles away from their FC's house. the expectation was you wanted to live in the same neighborhoods and send your kids to the same schools.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
PREVAIL!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
Word over the world completed?....what an idiot!
"Word over the world" was the carrot on the stick...Lcm not only did away with the wow program, the roa and the pfal class...but he also took away the GOAL!...what a moron....talk about killing the cash cow...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
themex
But why he did that, he was mad, crazy?
During one Rock, I think it was the last one 1995 he showed how many PFAL they have play. So TWI recovering from the exodus of the fog years.
Why he pressured every one to move the word, put the way corps full time, for nothing?
Why he fired the homos?
Edited by themexLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I'll tell you something that amazes me.
When I left Cleveland in the early to mid 1970s, it was a virtual hotbed of PFAL and TWI activity.
Two big branches. Lots of twigs. Classes, classes, classes and more classes. People going WOW, Corps, etc.
Then I come here and find out that at least one wave of WOWs, and possibly more, were sent in after I left.
For What????
Word Over The World my foot!
It was all about sending salesmen into areas where they thought the market was receptive.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
oaks, that reminds me of a story I heard when I was young, from a Nun, at school. (a "Sister of the Holy Cross" as their order was known). It was about how fortunate we were in the U.S. to have so much, and she told the story of how her ancestors in Ireland had survived in the Great Famine of the 1800's. She said that the story went, their family had a single piece of meat, beef, and they would stew that piece of meat over and over with vegetables and then remove the meat and store it and re-stew it over and over.
In that way their vegetable soup would pick up the flavor and some of the nutrition from the beef over time. Basically they just dipped it iinto the stew, removed it and made their beef last that way.
So they had "beef stew" every night.
Martindale's"WOW was much the same. Sounds like if someone flew over a city, that city had a chance to "hear the Word". Drive through and stop for gas, they had their chance. Couple of service men or women stationed for a few months - it's over.
Clearly, by that time he'd given up any real hope of ever seeing the Way cohere in the way it had been. After that, maintenance. Try to keep what you've got, clean it up and move on. He had a way of "logicing" out things in his thinking, connecting odd bits and pieces he'd pick up, grasping at "inspiration" and coming to outlandish conclusions. Not a pretty picture.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
leafytwiglet
To me it seems so counter productive. Move everyone closer to the FC or LC then less and less peole actually hear about the TWI
I am glad they collapsed but in hindsite I wonder what they were and are thinking.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
maybe they wanted it to collapse
Link to comment
Share on other sites
leafytwiglet
you mean the board?
Or the FOX?
INteresting Idea
Edited by leafytwigletLink to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
who knows? We can speculate.
a smaller group is easier to control . . .
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Prior to martindale's declaration that "the word was over the world".......he assigned John R3ynolds, the international outreach coordinator, to put together a report. In knee-jerk fashion, John spear-headed this requested report by documenting such things as: 1) adding a history of countries where fellowships and classes were available, 2) where military had been stationed, 3) translation work of priority languages, 4) the Zaire believers' impact on the continent of Africa, and other aspects.
Of course, the standard indoctrination in twi was to present this "revelation" and "documentation" to the corps FIRST...... and once they are "on board," THEN declare it to the twi followers. When manipulation and intimidation rule, like in twi, information is delivered and responses are gauged before proceeding to level 2. The corps were the troops to help disperse information, squelch questioning and carry out conformity.
Imo.......by 1995, martindale was ready to step away from living in wierwille's shadow. Martindale had, now, distanced himself from "the fog years" by some six years and was ready to STAMP HIS MARK on twi's legacy. On several corps teachings, lcm reiterated that HIS MINISTRY WAS INDICATIVE OF THE NUMBER 2........twi's 2nd corps director, twi's 2nd president, 2nd this, 2nd that. He was "the man who established what wierwille started." And, he was going to re-do vic's foundational class.
As one reflects back on the context of this "the word is over the world"........here is the context:
1) 1993 - 1994.............genuine suspicion, homo purge, living sanctified
2) 1995.......................declaration of "word over the world, last ROA, and "revelation" to put corps full-time
3) 1996.......................prevailing word terminology, new lcm WAP class, crossing over into "promised land"
4) 1997.......................all wierwille stuff was "old-wine skins," new intermediate class (WAP), more legalism
5) 1998.......................new adv class (WAP)....all old grads need new updated class.....Martindale-mania
6) 1998.......................June Advanced Class.......martindale is caught having sex with a married corps woman
7) 1999.......................P & F Allen leave hq after confronting lcm on sexual predation
In the context of "revelations".........it should be noted that martindale's "revelation" of all corps going full-time and taking the ministry to great heights FAILED MISERABLY. Within months of this 1995 "revelation" the trunk department was scrambling to handle the overwhelming financial responsibility of having all the field corps on twi's payroll. Yes, within two months, martindale was yelling on corps meetings to sniff out any corps that were not "truly corps." Another witch-hunt was in progress......it was crazy.........again!!!
Twi's concept of "word over the world" was wierwille's narcisstic attempt and agenda of having pfal classes running worldwide so that "EVERYBODY WILL LISTEN TO ME." Clearly, in the end..........imo, this re-packaging of "pfal concepts and cult servitude" had very little resemblance of God's Authorship of His Word to the ends of the earth: Acts 1:8
<_<
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cheranne
More like PFAL sold by way people like some cheap unspiritual fast food that makes you ill when
is contaminated with feces of the creator "dr vpw" and spreads around like a virus to injure well
meaning people that seek the truth and end up sick...some people come out of it and some people
end up dying.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Yeah...........worldwide McW and a clown salesman.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
With the advent of the internet, isn't it somewhat of a moot point?
(The financial aspect not withstanding, of course.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.