did vpw really say that? when? where? if that's true, that sure explains the treatment I got from a lot of people.
Yes, I heard it, Doctor saying it, where, when, well somewhere between 1973-1976. I believe that VPW believed that God was truly absolute in all meanings of the word. That if he married you, the value of his advice, counsel, and so on, was so VALUABLE that its value was greater than anyones life. Now, I feel that what he meant was sort of along the line of personal sympathy, that is if you did get divorced after being married by him your life would be filled with misery, and all the bad stuff. But, here is the thing...words mean something, what he said was what he said, if that is not what he meant, then, gee, I guess he wasn't perfect. And its not my problem, its VPW's and god rest his soul...
So, my standard is this, say what you mean and mean what you say. If I fall into the same trap, I promise to endeavor to correct myself. Like I have said elsewhere, we each choose what we compromise on, compromises we can live with and compromises we can't live with...knowing, our knowing the difference is wisdom in my opinion, the difference between living and dying every day. I personally would rather be dead than compromise any of my standards, regardles of who feels they are reasonable, sound, appropriate, applicable...anything...but thats just me..you choose...you decide...its your life, you make your own decisions about what right and wrong are...whats good, whats bad..whats valuable..whats worthless...regards, michael
mchud please go back and edit your post with the ladies email and put the spaces back in it. That is done as a courtesy for people so they do not get inundated with SPAM mail from bots. there is software out there that searches for emails on line.
I know you are trying to make it easier for people to email her but it was unnecessary just telling them to remove thte spaces is all that is necessary
mchud please go back and edit your post with the ladies email and put the spaces back in it. That is done as a courtesy for people so they do not get inundated with SPAM mail from bots. there is software out there that searches for emails on line.
I know you are trying to make it easier for people to email her but it was unnecessary just telling them to remove thte spaces is all that is necessary
oh, I was referring to Gary Martins email in the article that Belle posted. Down on the right, a couple of paragraphs, Garys email is listed, when I did a copy and paste into yahoo and sent a letter to him it came back undeliverable, Belle pointed it out to me, I changed those postings. I thought at first that Gary's email in the article was a fake, but what it was a typo, as Belle said. I have not edited the journalists email, that is, all I did was do a copy and paste, nothing was removed.....but I edited the journalists email, per your advice. thanks...
Advise from a man who had no clue, whatsoever, how to honor his own marriage vows.
His marriage would be the absolute last prototype I would ever try to use as a pattern for my own.
Now there is some truth we can all get behind Waysider.
Potato You are amazing.
And they obviously only went so far with the Suzie Ormand book . IT recommends to work your self up to 8 or 9 months of savings to tide you over. I doubt TWI would be too happy about them reading her book she suggests strongly that all women have their own account and their own credit card that do not have the Hubby's name on them.. for stuff like what happened to Potato.
And also how true that sometimes we do not have control over what is going out.
Most of us have what we have by a combination of luck and carefulness.
oh, I was referring to Gary Martins email in the article that Belle posted. Down on the right, a couple of paragraphs, Garys email is listed, when I did a copy and paste into yahoo and sent a letter to him it came back undeliverable, Belle pointed it out to me, I changed those postings. I thought at first that Gary's email in the article was a fake, but what it was a typo, as Belle said. I have not edited the journalists email, that is, all I did was do a copy and paste, nothing was removed.....but I edited the journalists email, per your advice. thanks...
Oh thanks I was just pointing it out because you are really such a sweetie and I figured you did not know.
Another trick that can be used is to write their email as johnsmith at yahoo.com like that. anything to defeat the evil computer spam bots is my theory.
And they obviously only went so far with the Suzie Ormand book . IT recommends to work your self up to 8 or 9 months of savings to tide you over. I doubt TWI would be too happy about them reading her book she suggests strongly that all women have their own account and their own credit card that do not have the Hubby's name on them.. for stuff like what happened to Potato.
And also how true that sometimes we do not have control over what is going out.
Most of us have what we have by a combination of luck and carefulness.
</snip>
I'm a huge proponent of a woman having her own accounts, too. and, if she's SAHM, then part of the paycheck should be deposited in her personal savings. why? because she has no social security, should she find herself divorced and disabled, she has no unemployment insurance should she find herself divorced and unemployed, and she's put her own professional skill-building on hold to care for family, ensuring that she'll re-enter the job market at a lower pay level.
and in my experience, most guys are not decent about paying alimony. they grumble about every cent, when there's no way their ex-wives can go out and earn for themselves what they need because those wives did everything possible to put their husbands in a position to provide for the family. my own experience was even worse. my ex is a deadbeat, pure and simple. if I'd had 9 months of living expenses in my OWN account, me and the kids wouldn't have ended up homeless.
"We've seen God open up many doors," said Gary, a Texan who grew up in a middle-class family. When faced with having to pay $5,000 for courses he needed to take, he was informed he won a scholarship for which he had not applied. When he arrived in New Jersey three years ago, without furniture or a job connection, a stranger offered him a beautiful set of furniture free and he had a job in five weeks.
Scholarship from whom? I'm wondering if they aren't such "faithful ministers" of TWI that they in fact paid for it - to tie him in even more to them.
But then - it took him 5 weeks to get a job. Clearly had never been WoW, where one was required to have a job within 2 weeks (as well as a home and whatever was needed in the home). What was he doing for the other three weeks?
"That one job wasn't enough to support me," he said, "so I got two jobs. I was a waiter also. I worked hard at both those jobs for six months. Then I got down to one job. Then I got promoted. Then I switched jobs to the organization I'm with now. I'm in a very good place but it took a lot of hard work. If you look at the records in the Bible, every single person there had to work to get where they got. Then the blessings came. We've got to get back to not expecting that we need everything right now."
Italicized bit: Work, then get blessed? Isn't that a bit like earning a blessing? Surely just to get the job is itself a blessing? After that come further blessings, advancement, promotion, more finances? Where exactly does believing God fit with this self-help outlook?
Bold bit: Actually this is precisely what TWI did teach. Instant results to prayer. Not the sustained prayer of a faithful man, sometimes over months and years. Concurrently they did teach (and fair enough) that we didn't need to buy things that cost a lot of money, like houses and cars, but there was merit in saving up. TWI was never into teaching that a better budget might mean outlay on a deposit then time payments, which could result in lower outgoings (like a car purchased over time might do a better job than one purchased a repair at a time - an old junker) but it was "one size fits all needs."
It seems to me they are trying to sound a little "mainstreamed."
I think their sympathy for those in debt is a little overstated. I never got anything but hard-core grief from TWI. We had to sell stock in Pepsi-Co to pay hospital bills because we didn't have insurance when I was diagnosed with IDDM. This after getting screamed at by the MiniMOG for owning stock in the first place. On the other hand, the little WC queen who was our twig leader had elective surgery and wrote it off to Medicaid. Different rules for the elite, I guess; we were not offered that option by the MiniMOG of the hour in that city.
The last year they had the ROA, we were ordered to attend. Never mind we didn't have any money and I had been diagnosed with IDDM and a long car ride would be a bad thing for me. So we used a credit card to buy airplane tickets and went, stayed with family, and truth be told, spent as little time at the ROA as possible.
Later on, we applied to go to WIB. Well, as our finances were investigated it was discovered by the detectives of TWI that we had (GASP!) used a credit card and were in DEBT! The stuff hit the fan and spread all over the place. How dare we use credit cards and then expect to be allowed the privilege of attending WIB? Who did we think we were! Well, they knew who we were, we were Ananias and Sapphira all over again and they had no idea why God hadn't struck us dead. "Hey, you know what, we never tried to hide the fact, and besides you TOLD us we had to go!" That as you may guess, fell on deaf ears. The money was returned to us (how nice) along with an ABS check upon which I had written the wrong month. That was also an exceeding great sin. Did I understand what a huge inconvenience that was for everyone concerned, including Mr. HA himself? That was such a worldly thing to do! Who in hell did I think I was?
Once again, weighed in the balance and found wanting.
And I have a word for Ms. Martin: We own a home and pay a mortgage because THAT IS WHAT WE DECIDED WE WANT TO DO! And you know what, Cookie? When we are dead and gone, our child can raise his family in this house, and his children can remember when they played on our porch! Who says you have to rent?
Who says you have to have a cult telling you what to think, say and do, anyway?
Later on, we applied to go to WIB. Well, as our finances were investigated it was discovered by the detectives of TWI that we had (GASP!) used a credit card and were in DEBT!
WTF? Investigated your finances? You mean, rummaged through your bank accounts somehow? Or just asked you questions (based on your previous shocking health bills, how date you? (tongue in cheek))?
I don't detect any sympathy in the article for those who don't have the opportunity for "secular degrees" and to pursue higher paying work.
At the ROA 1995 every active WC on the field was put on staff and sent home to interrogate each of their subjects regarding every intimate detail of their lives. They of course had no access to our bank accounts, but they did know we had flown to Ohio when "everyone else" drove their cars for a four to five day trip. They demanded to know how we could afford it. Well, the answer was simple: We had a very very good credit rating and we put it on a credit card. We weren't a LOT in debt; this was a year after we had paid off my hospital bills (the fact that I even had hospital bills was strong evidence for spiritual weakness and unbelief). But the new region coordinator/limb coordinator, Rev. RS, was very ambitious to weed out the unbelief and spiritual weakness in the region, and the jackfoot BC was very ambitious, period, and worshipped LCM and wanted nothing more than to be just like him. This was the year when all homeowners were commanded, on penalty of M&A, to sell their homes immediately. No car payments were allowed, either. Each in turn was quizzed and interrogated until the truth was told of shortcomings, independent thinking, and disregard for the great and glorious wonders of the present truth.
Oh, and about those 401Ks? In 1994-95 that was strictly forbidden. When we sold the Pepsico stock, we had lots more money than we needed to pay the bills, so we opened IRAs, which I realize is not quite the same as a 401K but it was still a never-never-no-no. We just didn't bother to tell MiniMog about it. They helped us get set up back here in the heartland when we left.
"Why do you have to have a mortgage?" Angela asked. "Man has come up with the concept of the mortgage and taxes based on home value. What is not taken into account is the additional cost associated with owning a home. How is that such a good deal? If you're always paying money out for maintenance, how does that help you? And who says you have to own a home? Does that make you a better citizen? A better person?"
I wish this couple well. But folks who pay out lets say $1000 a month for rent, have shelled out about $240,000 in 20 years, with NOTHING to show for it except helping to pay someone else's mortgage. Conversely folks who have a mortgage will pay a little more month to month for maintenance but have offset that with tax deductibility issues, and more importantly, have something to show for it in the end of 20 years. I would say that may make one a better steward of God's money. I wouldn't say it makes you a better citizen, but smarter. Hell yeah.
I wish this couple well. But folks who pay out lets say $1000 a month for rent, have shelled out about $240,000 in 20 years, with NOTHING to show for it except helping to pay someone else's mortgage. Conversely folks who have a mortgage will pay a little more month to month for maintenance but have offset that with tax deductibility issues, and more importantly, have something to show for it in the end of 20 years. I would say that may make one a better steward of God's money. I wouldn't say it makes you a better citizen, but smarter. Hell yeah.
oh my god, I hear angels singing hallelujah!!! I completely agree with your post, OM. I don't think that's ever happened before.
the tax deduction of mortgage interest is a good point. I've saved thousands of dollars on state and federal taxes the last few years, and one of these days my mortgage will be far smaller than prevailing rents. good stewardship, indeed. pay a little extra up front, reap hella benefits down the road. that's what "investment" means.
A direct quotation from the article: "The couple is sympathetic to people in debt, realizing American culture teaches and encourages it. They understand that medical conditions and unexpected setbacks happen and are not necessarily anyone's fault. The goal of the ministry, Gary said, is to make people aware of the conditionings that can financially imprison them and the liberation of living a different life."
Well golly sixty! So if some hapless soul in their fellowship is diagnosed with cancer, they would never dream of asking "Do you understand what it is THAT YOU DID that caused this to happen to you?"
If someone's paid for ancient vehicle falls apart, they are not going to be REPROVED FOR NOT BELIEVING FOR ITS HEALTH?
I wonder how much they give away, to help the people in their fellowship/area/branch or whatever these things are called now?
Now they are called Household Fellowships.
The debt problem primary is a U.S.A. cultural problem, we in other countries live almost on a daily bases because we are poor, we do not receive credits from the banks, no credit cards and the social systems of the government help people to buy really small apartments, but really small ones. Two bedrooms, one bathroom. Small kitchen and no garden.
And because of that cultural problema now we are in world recession. Two or three months ago 10 pesos = one u.s dollar. today 14 pesos = one u.s. dollar. And you have to work at least two hours to maike the dollar. That why a lot of guys cross the river.
Putting your email address in public like that is a great way to get spam dude.
Ok, Gspotters, its Mr. Dude, ok...?
As far as spam, I do not feel I get enough of it, I need a "thicker" you know what, I want every Nigerian Attorney to help me collect the national lottery or undisclosed recipient of an inheritance, I have been looking for a bride from Russia, Vigara is my drug of choice (I am waiting for the Vigara nasal inhaler to come on the market), so please help me get more email (I am a lonely man) and work is harder to find these days...so spammers I have no problem helping you make a few cents putting me on a mailing list.....
As far as spam, I do not feel I get enough of it, I need a "thicker" you know what, I want every Nigerian Attorney to help me collect the national lottery or undisclosed recipient of an inheritance, I have been looking for a bride from Russia, Vigara is my drug of choice (I am waiting for the Vigara nasal inhaler to come on the market), so please help me get more email (I am a lonely man) and work is harder to find these days...so spammers I have no problem helping you make a few cents putting me on a mailing list.....
LOL Mchud you say that now but when you open your email every day to 100 or more you will not be so happy ...
Unless they are renting on a month-to-month basis and paying in advance, they have a financial obligation, otherwise known as a "debt".
( IIRC, Lincoln Park is in New Jersey)
if you dont pay your rent in advance you are kicked out by 12:00 midnight on the last day you paid for , every place i have ever rented requires me to pay in advance or else, you cannot live in a rental and pay your rent last, if you have a lease you can pay all your rent for that lease up front ,i havent had a credit card since 1979 ,i have lived without borrowing money since then, i'm 51 and work in construction and have GOD take care of me, when i decide i want something i look in the paper and on the web etc. to find the best price, the point is having GOD working with you and taking care of you , if i decide to own my own house i will pay cash for it , even if there wasnt anything in GODS word warning about buming money i would still pay cash cause i hate oweing somebody,besides this economic disaster was caused by people bumimg money they couldnt pay back, i paid 3 months worth of my phone-web-power-etc. in advance years ago just so i wouldnt be owing in advance & this was b4 twi told people to get out of debt, i know gary martin ,he was way disciple out in chino ca 2002-2003 he was single then,i have friends that go to twi & independent groups ,it is what you do with what you have ben taught that matters, you could be high fallutin way corps and not do the word and you will not see the results, GOD is no respecter of persons,in 2006 i bought a 2006 ford f350 diesel dually crew cab pick-up $38,000 and paid cash, its mine i have the title, i only make $35.00 hr and live in HIGH EXSPENSE Los Angeles BUT i believe GOD to take care of me, and i have a lot of great stuff i live HIGH ON THE HOG,an old friend of mine that runs an independant fellowship thats here on greasespot somewhere lives the way i do and believes GOD to take care of him and does very well, i still go to way fellowships , i hope this helps in seeing that ANYONE can live debt free and have the things that blesses them ,make GOD your financial manager and advisor, GOD also rides in a FORD ,honk honk....i just saw gary's picture !!!! OH MY GOSH !!!!! YOUR B-A-L-D , YOU HAD HAIR WHEN YOU WERE HERE!!!! i have long hair, i'm bald on top !!! i look like a leftover hippie from the ??????
if you dont pay your rent in advance you are kicked out by 12:00 midnight on the last day you paid for , every place i have ever rented requires me to pay in advance or else, you cannot live in a rental and pay your rent last, if you have a lease you can pay all your rent for that lease up front ,i havent had a credit card since 1979 ,i have lived without borrowing money since then, i'm 51 and work in construction and have GOD take care of me, when i decide i want something i look in the paper and on the web etc. to find the best price, the point is having GOD working with you and taking care of you , if i decide to own my own house i will pay cash for it , even if there wasnt anything in GODS word warning about buming money i would still pay cash cause i hate oweing somebody,besides this economic disaster was caused by people bumimg money they couldnt pay back, i paid 3 months worth of my phone-web-power-etc. in advance years ago just so i wouldnt be owing in advance & this was b4 twi told people to get out of debt, i know gary martin ,he was way disciple out in chino ca 2002-2003 he was single then,i have friends that go to twi & independent groups ,it is what you do with what you have ben taught that matters, you could be high fallutin way corps and not do the word and you will not see the results, GOD is no respecter of persons,in 2006 i bought a 2006 ford f350 diesel dually crew cab pick-up $38,000 and paid cash, its mine i have the title, i only make $35.00 hr and live in HIGH EXSPENSE Los Angeles BUT i believe GOD to take care of me, and i have a lot of great stuff i live HIGH ON THE HOG,an old friend of mine that runs an independant fellowship thats here on greasespot somewhere lives the way i do and believes GOD to take care of him and does very well, i still go to way fellowships , i hope this helps in seeing that ANYONE can live debt free and have the things that blesses them ,make GOD your financial manager and advisor, GOD also rides in a FORD ,honk honk....i just saw gary's picture !!!! OH MY GOSH !!!!! YOUR B-A-L-D , YOU HAD HAIR WHEN YOU WERE HERE!!!! i have long hair, i'm bald on top !!! i look like a leftover hippie from the ??????
So,
you believe you have no debts to pay? OMG!!!
How is Imaginationland this time of year? No wait,
I do a lot of things you do, but I don't have to believe for a God to do anything for me and I still get it done. Crazy. Yes I have had to "get by with a little help from my friends" or family, but we got by and get by.
I rent a house currently in the Caribbean, but only because I can't afford to buy one yet. I don't have a lot of great stuff. Don't need it. I don't live "high on the hog." I live pretty meagerly. I do have a house in the states with a mortgage to match, but technically I don't pay for it... a guy not unlike yourself does. Sure the debt is in my name, yes I do pay for it every month, but as long as there are people like you out there, renters, there will be people like me out there, owners, not just paying the mortgage but making money on the homes that you are paying for. Thank you very much! And thank you to your god as well for whatever he is supplying where ever along the food chain so that other people have good jobs so that those people can have what they need so that you or you boss has a job so that you make money so that you can pay my mortgage and buy all that cool stuff so that you can be happy and feel good or whatever. If it's working for you, thats great. It's paying my bills as well!
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frank123lol
Double income no kids,The Martins are like I was,It is a lie,They are obligated,threrefore in debt,They signed a lease,promising to pay for so
such and such.Whilst I was in it was ok to lease a car,You still make an obligation.Tithing?buy into the lie...
Twi lives in the eternal now,A house is an asset,sure you have to work on it,what do you not have to work on?
Owe no man anything?context.....oh well twi makes up the rules..At least I do not have to ask anyone for permission.
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mchud11
Yes, I heard it, Doctor saying it, where, when, well somewhere between 1973-1976. I believe that VPW believed that God was truly absolute in all meanings of the word. That if he married you, the value of his advice, counsel, and so on, was so VALUABLE that its value was greater than anyones life. Now, I feel that what he meant was sort of along the line of personal sympathy, that is if you did get divorced after being married by him your life would be filled with misery, and all the bad stuff. But, here is the thing...words mean something, what he said was what he said, if that is not what he meant, then, gee, I guess he wasn't perfect. And its not my problem, its VPW's and god rest his soul...
So, my standard is this, say what you mean and mean what you say. If I fall into the same trap, I promise to endeavor to correct myself. Like I have said elsewhere, we each choose what we compromise on, compromises we can live with and compromises we can't live with...knowing, our knowing the difference is wisdom in my opinion, the difference between living and dying every day. I personally would rather be dead than compromise any of my standards, regardles of who feels they are reasonable, sound, appropriate, applicable...anything...but thats just me..you choose...you decide...its your life, you make your own decisions about what right and wrong are...whats good, whats bad..whats valuable..whats worthless...regards, michael
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leafytwiglet
mchud please go back and edit your post with the ladies email and put the spaces back in it. That is done as a courtesy for people so they do not get inundated with SPAM mail from bots. there is software out there that searches for emails on line.
I know you are trying to make it easier for people to email her but it was unnecessary just telling them to remove thte spaces is all that is necessary
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waysider
Advise from a man who had no clue, whatsoever, how to honor his own marriage vows.
His marriage would be the absolute last prototype I would ever try to use as a pattern for my own.
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mchud11
oh, I was referring to Gary Martins email in the article that Belle posted. Down on the right, a couple of paragraphs, Garys email is listed, when I did a copy and paste into yahoo and sent a letter to him it came back undeliverable, Belle pointed it out to me, I changed those postings. I thought at first that Gary's email in the article was a fake, but what it was a typo, as Belle said. I have not edited the journalists email, that is, all I did was do a copy and paste, nothing was removed.....but I edited the journalists email, per your advice. thanks...
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leafytwiglet
Now there is some truth we can all get behind Waysider.
Potato You are amazing.
And they obviously only went so far with the Suzie Ormand book . IT recommends to work your self up to 8 or 9 months of savings to tide you over. I doubt TWI would be too happy about them reading her book she suggests strongly that all women have their own account and their own credit card that do not have the Hubby's name on them.. for stuff like what happened to Potato.
And also how true that sometimes we do not have control over what is going out.
Most of us have what we have by a combination of luck and carefulness.
Oh thanks I was just pointing it out because you are really such a sweetie and I figured you did not know.
Another trick that can be used is to write their email as johnsmith at yahoo.com like that. anything to defeat the evil computer spam bots is my theory.
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potato
thank you :wub:
I'm a huge proponent of a woman having her own accounts, too. and, if she's SAHM, then part of the paycheck should be deposited in her personal savings. why? because she has no social security, should she find herself divorced and disabled, she has no unemployment insurance should she find herself divorced and unemployed, and she's put her own professional skill-building on hold to care for family, ensuring that she'll re-enter the job market at a lower pay level.
and in my experience, most guys are not decent about paying alimony. they grumble about every cent, when there's no way their ex-wives can go out and earn for themselves what they need because those wives did everything possible to put their husbands in a position to provide for the family. my own experience was even worse. my ex is a deadbeat, pure and simple. if I'd had 9 months of living expenses in my OWN account, me and the kids wouldn't have ended up homeless.
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Twinky
From the newspaper article:
Scholarship from whom? I'm wondering if they aren't such "faithful ministers" of TWI that they in fact paid for it - to tie him in even more to them.But then - it took him 5 weeks to get a job. Clearly had never been WoW, where one was required to have a job within 2 weeks (as well as a home and whatever was needed in the home). What was he doing for the other three weeks?
Italicized bit: Work, then get blessed? Isn't that a bit like earning a blessing? Surely just to get the job is itself a blessing? After that come further blessings, advancement, promotion, more finances? Where exactly does believing God fit with this self-help outlook?
Bold bit: Actually this is precisely what TWI did teach. Instant results to prayer. Not the sustained prayer of a faithful man, sometimes over months and years. Concurrently they did teach (and fair enough) that we didn't need to buy things that cost a lot of money, like houses and cars, but there was merit in saving up. TWI was never into teaching that a better budget might mean outlay on a deposit then time payments, which could result in lower outgoings (like a car purchased over time might do a better job than one purchased a repair at a time - an old junker) but it was "one size fits all needs."
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Watered Garden
It seems to me they are trying to sound a little "mainstreamed."
I think their sympathy for those in debt is a little overstated. I never got anything but hard-core grief from TWI. We had to sell stock in Pepsi-Co to pay hospital bills because we didn't have insurance when I was diagnosed with IDDM. This after getting screamed at by the MiniMOG for owning stock in the first place. On the other hand, the little WC queen who was our twig leader had elective surgery and wrote it off to Medicaid. Different rules for the elite, I guess; we were not offered that option by the MiniMOG of the hour in that city.
The last year they had the ROA, we were ordered to attend. Never mind we didn't have any money and I had been diagnosed with IDDM and a long car ride would be a bad thing for me. So we used a credit card to buy airplane tickets and went, stayed with family, and truth be told, spent as little time at the ROA as possible.
Later on, we applied to go to WIB. Well, as our finances were investigated it was discovered by the detectives of TWI that we had (GASP!) used a credit card and were in DEBT! The stuff hit the fan and spread all over the place. How dare we use credit cards and then expect to be allowed the privilege of attending WIB? Who did we think we were! Well, they knew who we were, we were Ananias and Sapphira all over again and they had no idea why God hadn't struck us dead. "Hey, you know what, we never tried to hide the fact, and besides you TOLD us we had to go!" That as you may guess, fell on deaf ears. The money was returned to us (how nice) along with an ABS check upon which I had written the wrong month. That was also an exceeding great sin. Did I understand what a huge inconvenience that was for everyone concerned, including Mr. HA himself? That was such a worldly thing to do! Who in hell did I think I was?
Once again, weighed in the balance and found wanting.
And I have a word for Ms. Martin: We own a home and pay a mortgage because THAT IS WHAT WE DECIDED WE WANT TO DO! And you know what, Cookie? When we are dead and gone, our child can raise his family in this house, and his children can remember when they played on our porch! Who says you have to rent?
Who says you have to have a cult telling you what to think, say and do, anyway?
WG
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Twinky
WTF? Investigated your finances? You mean, rummaged through your bank accounts somehow? Or just asked you questions (based on your previous shocking health bills, how date you? (tongue in cheek))?
I don't detect any sympathy in the article for those who don't have the opportunity for "secular degrees" and to pursue higher paying work.
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Watered Garden
At the ROA 1995 every active WC on the field was put on staff and sent home to interrogate each of their subjects regarding every intimate detail of their lives. They of course had no access to our bank accounts, but they did know we had flown to Ohio when "everyone else" drove their cars for a four to five day trip. They demanded to know how we could afford it. Well, the answer was simple: We had a very very good credit rating and we put it on a credit card. We weren't a LOT in debt; this was a year after we had paid off my hospital bills (the fact that I even had hospital bills was strong evidence for spiritual weakness and unbelief). But the new region coordinator/limb coordinator, Rev. RS, was very ambitious to weed out the unbelief and spiritual weakness in the region, and the jackfoot BC was very ambitious, period, and worshipped LCM and wanted nothing more than to be just like him. This was the year when all homeowners were commanded, on penalty of M&A, to sell their homes immediately. No car payments were allowed, either. Each in turn was quizzed and interrogated until the truth was told of shortcomings, independent thinking, and disregard for the great and glorious wonders of the present truth.
Oh, and about those 401Ks? In 1994-95 that was strictly forbidden. When we sold the Pepsico stock, we had lots more money than we needed to pay the bills, so we opened IRAs, which I realize is not quite the same as a 401K but it was still a never-never-no-no. We just didn't bother to tell MiniMog about it. They helped us get set up back here in the heartland when we left.
WG
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oldiesman
Quote from the article:
I wish this couple well. But folks who pay out lets say $1000 a month for rent, have shelled out about $240,000 in 20 years, with NOTHING to show for it except helping to pay someone else's mortgage. Conversely folks who have a mortgage will pay a little more month to month for maintenance but have offset that with tax deductibility issues, and more importantly, have something to show for it in the end of 20 years. I would say that may make one a better steward of God's money. I wouldn't say it makes you a better citizen, but smarter. Hell yeah.
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themex
Hi Belle!
Do you still sin
gle?
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potato
oh my god, I hear angels singing hallelujah!!! I completely agree with your post, OM. I don't think that's ever happened before.
the tax deduction of mortgage interest is a good point. I've saved thousands of dollars on state and federal taxes the last few years, and one of these days my mortgage will be far smaller than prevailing rents. good stewardship, indeed. pay a little extra up front, reap hella benefits down the road. that's what "investment" means.
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Watered Garden
A direct quotation from the article: "The couple is sympathetic to people in debt, realizing American culture teaches and encourages it. They understand that medical conditions and unexpected setbacks happen and are not necessarily anyone's fault. The goal of the ministry, Gary said, is to make people aware of the conditionings that can financially imprison them and the liberation of living a different life."
Well golly sixty! So if some hapless soul in their fellowship is diagnosed with cancer, they would never dream of asking "Do you understand what it is THAT YOU DID that caused this to happen to you?"
If someone's paid for ancient vehicle falls apart, they are not going to be REPROVED FOR NOT BELIEVING FOR ITS HEALTH?
Oh, look! A flying pig!
WG
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Twinky
I wonder how much they give away, to help the people in their fellowship/area/branch or whatever these things are called now?
I wonder how much they put, financially, into their own community?
I wonder...
They might be good guys.
But the article reads like a commercial. And not for their"secular" businesses.
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themex
Now they are called Household Fellowships.
The debt problem primary is a U.S.A. cultural problem, we in other countries live almost on a daily bases because we are poor, we do not receive credits from the banks, no credit cards and the social systems of the government help people to buy really small apartments, but really small ones. Two bedrooms, one bathroom. Small kitchen and no garden.
And because of that cultural problema now we are in world recession. Two or three months ago 10 pesos = one u.s dollar. today 14 pesos = one u.s. dollar. And you have to work at least two hours to maike the dollar. That why a lot of guys cross the river.
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Nato
Putting your email address in public like that is a great way to get spam dude.
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mchud11
Ok, Gspotters, its Mr. Dude, ok...?
As far as spam, I do not feel I get enough of it, I need a "thicker" you know what, I want every Nigerian Attorney to help me collect the national lottery or undisclosed recipient of an inheritance, I have been looking for a bride from Russia, Vigara is my drug of choice (I am waiting for the Vigara nasal inhaler to come on the market), so please help me get more email (I am a lonely man) and work is harder to find these days...so spammers I have no problem helping you make a few cents putting me on a mailing list.....
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leafytwiglet
LOL Mchud you say that now but when you open your email every day to 100 or more you will not be so happy ...
HEhehehe
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mchud11
Oh, Jack, my one eyed cat scans my mailbox for spam, he likes the trackball...
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shiftthis
if you dont pay your rent in advance you are kicked out by 12:00 midnight on the last day you paid for , every place i have ever rented requires me to pay in advance or else, you cannot live in a rental and pay your rent last, if you have a lease you can pay all your rent for that lease up front ,i havent had a credit card since 1979 ,i have lived without borrowing money since then, i'm 51 and work in construction and have GOD take care of me, when i decide i want something i look in the paper and on the web etc. to find the best price, the point is having GOD working with you and taking care of you , if i decide to own my own house i will pay cash for it , even if there wasnt anything in GODS word warning about buming money i would still pay cash cause i hate oweing somebody,besides this economic disaster was caused by people bumimg money they couldnt pay back, i paid 3 months worth of my phone-web-power-etc. in advance years ago just so i wouldnt be owing in advance & this was b4 twi told people to get out of debt, i know gary martin ,he was way disciple out in chino ca 2002-2003 he was single then,i have friends that go to twi & independent groups ,it is what you do with what you have ben taught that matters, you could be high fallutin way corps and not do the word and you will not see the results, GOD is no respecter of persons,in 2006 i bought a 2006 ford f350 diesel dually crew cab pick-up $38,000 and paid cash, its mine i have the title, i only make $35.00 hr and live in HIGH EXSPENSE Los Angeles BUT i believe GOD to take care of me, and i have a lot of great stuff i live HIGH ON THE HOG,an old friend of mine that runs an independant fellowship thats here on greasespot somewhere lives the way i do and believes GOD to take care of him and does very well, i still go to way fellowships , i hope this helps in seeing that ANYONE can live debt free and have the things that blesses them ,make GOD your financial manager and advisor, GOD also rides in a FORD ,honk honk....i just saw gary's picture !!!! OH MY GOSH !!!!! YOUR B-A-L-D , YOU HAD HAIR WHEN YOU WERE HERE!!!! i have long hair, i'm bald on top !!! i look like a leftover hippie from the ??????
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Bolshevik
So,
you believe you have no debts to pay? OMG!!!
How is Imaginationland this time of year? No wait,
I already know . . .
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lindyhopper
Ok I'll shift it...
I do a lot of things you do, but I don't have to believe for a God to do anything for me and I still get it done. Crazy. Yes I have had to "get by with a little help from my friends" or family, but we got by and get by.
I rent a house currently in the Caribbean, but only because I can't afford to buy one yet. I don't have a lot of great stuff. Don't need it. I don't live "high on the hog." I live pretty meagerly. I do have a house in the states with a mortgage to match, but technically I don't pay for it... a guy not unlike yourself does. Sure the debt is in my name, yes I do pay for it every month, but as long as there are people like you out there, renters, there will be people like me out there, owners, not just paying the mortgage but making money on the homes that you are paying for. Thank you very much! And thank you to your god as well for whatever he is supplying where ever along the food chain so that other people have good jobs so that those people can have what they need so that you or you boss has a job so that you make money so that you can pay my mortgage and buy all that cool stuff so that you can be happy and feel good or whatever. If it's working for you, thats great. It's paying my bills as well!
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