Vista feels to me, as slick, but slightly annoying, as in Microsoft appeared to be making decisions for us. I go to open a folder and want to look at the dates that files were last modified, in XP, I can change the folder options so the folder shows what I want, in Vista, however, I have yet to find it, in Vista, I have to do the right click thing and check off "date modified" every time, annoying, an example.
Vista, has characteristics of being Microsoft's Vietnam, sales haven't done as well as they wanted and Windows 7 is supposed to make up for Vistas shortcomings...
Efficiency, in connecting to the Internet, in Vista, is more efficient than XP, but...vista has some tweaks that still slow down Internet connectivity speed, and I had to find them all, and disable them all..all of them..annoying..the tcp/ip, the network pieces are too complex, and complexity means things can tend to slow down.
Windows 7 is more efficient, than Vista, from what I have read. Things run faster and faster is more necessary than ever now days. At the peak, we are talking about HD, 1080p, VC1, true HD sound and audio, you need a duo core nowdays. And we are in the middle of 32 bit, going forward to 64 bit..
So, my recommendation is try Windows 7 out, with conditions, those being that its installed on its own partition, and mess around. If you want to be on the cutting edge, and have 64 bit capability, install the 64 bit Window 7..now, I admit, that there are problems with the 64 bit thing, drivers (some not written), applications (not enough of them on 64 bit), we are not at 64 bit yet in the market place, its a year or so away, but you can get the taste of where things are going and that is what makes it fun...
good luck, if you have something specific you think I might be able to help with, do ask or write to me personally, I do my best to be timely with responses.....have a good one...
Just looking, in general for Windows 7 information.
I plan on sticking with XP as long as I can, and migrating in steps to Ubuntu Linux when that's no longer an option.
No problem there WordWolf, Beta software, always, always has the possibility of data loss, so doing one's homework is essential. The software now, is not my grandmother's software, so to speak, things have changed since DOS days, but BETA, means BETA. Even if you are not dealing with Beta software, a defense is always always the best offense, backups of your important stuff.
I have barely scratched the surface of Linux, but I feel if I did go in that direction, it would be of value. Linux, as an open operating system, gets rid of many of the issues of proprietary software. Developers and software writers are around to design and implement applications that do the tasks we need of an operating system, word processors, video playing applications, so good luck and good fortune in your migration. To me, experience generates confidence, and very much so for computer operating systems, there is some learning curve, but the fact remains that computers are dumber than dirt. Its the software that is the brains...regards, michael
----------------------
Footnote: A joke. My only Microsoft joke, I know...came out of their early years in software..
How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb ?
Answer: NONE...they merely change the standard from light to darkness...
Hint: See Microsoft is a monopoly, or so the court said, so they just change the standard...dry, mean, I make no apologies.
Just playing with Vista 7 for a little while and it seems good. But I'm totally satisfied with XP pro and won't switch until I can't get programs and drivers that will work with it.
Two Intel Pentium engineers walk into a bar and order beers. The bartender says "that will be two-fifty each". One of the engineers slaps a five on the bar and says "keep the change".
Just playing with Vista 7 for a little while and it seems good. But I'm totally satisfied with XP pro and won't switch until I can't get programs and drivers that will work with it.
Two Intel Pentium engineers walk into a bar and order beers. The bartender says "that will be two-fifty each". One of the engineers slaps a five on the bar and says "keep the change".
Good one Jim, keep the change.......after reading that I realized my joke telling needs some work....my punch line wasn't correct...
the punch line is "None, they merely change the industry standard from light to darkness"
I've been playing around with Windows 7 for, ohh, about a week or so now, and I gotta say, ... I'm impressed, ... so far.
I'm approaching this with a good deal of caution, as I would with any future operating system upgrade/purchase; particularly since my experience with the infamous Windows ME. THAT experience cost me a hard drive, and I was *not* a happy camper. Not by a long shot. Only Windows 2000 restored my faith in Micro$oft. (Such as that is)
So far, Windows 7 has been working like a champ. One of a couple of minor quirks I've come across is where I activate the sleep mode (which itself works quickly), and about 10-20 seconds later, the PC pops back on, and I haven't even moved the mouse. One suggestion I would make to Microsoft in that respect is to have an option to 'wake' the PC by keystroke.
As far as application performance, I'm installing and trying out my apps, and again so far, so good. :) Why, I just might starting to use Windows 7 for some serious work! Oh, by the way, it's the Windows 7 Ultimate version that I have, which includes all the Aero effects.
But I'll keep you all here posted on my progress. Good thing that it's going to last till August 1st. Gives me a little more than 6 months to try it out. And if this stability and all the goodies work out as it looks, I'll definitely be upgrading to Windows 7 when it becomes available.
OK - open target here - I am a poster child for linux - worked on the 0.84 kernel back in 1994 and am still a member of the kernel development team - so feel free to ask questions about linux if you wish - although I rarely read this forum
I have barely scratched the surface of Linux, but I feel if I did go in that direction, it would be of value. Linux, as an open operating system, gets rid of many of the issues of proprietary software. Developers and software writers are around to design and implement applications that do the tasks we need of an operating system, word processors, video playing applications, so good luck and good fortune in your migration. To me, experience generates confidence, and very much so for computer operating systems, there is some learning curve, but the fact remains that computers are dumber than dirt. Its the software that is the brains...regards, michael
I've been playing around with Windows 7 for, ohh, about a week or so now, and I gotta say, ... I'm impressed, ... so far.
I'm approaching this with a good deal of caution, as I would with any future operating system upgrade/purchase; particularly since my experience with the infamous Windows ME. THAT experience cost me a hard drive, and I was *not* a happy camper. Not by a long shot. Only Windows 2000 restored my faith in Micro$oft. (Such as that is)
So far, Windows 7 has been working like a champ. One of a couple of minor quirks I've come across is where I activate the sleep mode (which itself works quickly), and about 10-20 seconds later, the PC pops back on, and I haven't even moved the mouse. One suggestion I would make to Microsoft in that respect is to have an option to 'wake' the PC by keystroke.
As far as application performance, I'm installing and trying out my apps, and again so far, so good. :) Why, I just might starting to use Windows 7 for some serious work! Oh, by the way, it's the Windows 7 Ultimate version that I have, which includes all the Aero effects.
But I'll keep you all here posted on my progress. Good thing that it's going to last till August 1st. Gives me a little more than 6 months to try it out. And if this stability and all the goodies work out as it looks, I'll definitely be upgrading to Windows 7 when it becomes available.
Thanks for telling us about your experience so far. Its those quirks that sort of make it worthwhile or a headache. In looking over some of the tech sites, I hear a lot of "go for it" talk about just going 64 bit, which is fine, when there are enough applications to work in that environment, and I haven't seen that yet. There are some advanced video editing applications, but I haven't seen a whole big slew of things available....regards..michael
OK - open target here - I am a poster child for linux - worked on the 0.84 kernel back in 1994 and am still a member of the kernel development team - so feel free to ask questions about linux if you wish - although I rarely read this forum
Thanks for the offer...not to be mean, or rude, or anything...where you are with Linux...do you get free polo shirts from time to time? To me, being validated for technical experience, expertise, involvement, means at least a freebie once a year....
Speaking of the 64 bit environment, can 32 bit apps work in 64 bit? Or what would it take to make them work on a 64 bit Windows system?
That is the million dollar question. Some can, some can't. The ones that "count" are drivers. Remember, we are first talking about the operating system working first and foremost. That is the operating system is an "environment" that programs or applications are running within. The operating system is the traffic cop of the computer. So, if you have a video card, that is 32 bit, if that runs, that is a good thing, but not guaranteed...its one of those things to research from the video card manufacturer, part of the homework to do, before installing Windows 7...and what about the sound driver, same thing...got a dvd player, same thing...
So, your question is very important. I stressed, and would like to restate that in my opinion, the best way to "mess around" with Windows 7 is a clean install to an available partition you have created or is available through say another hard drive you may have that does not have anything on it...creating what is called a "dual boot" machine.
Compatibility is the name of the game, an important goal for Microsoft, that is pretty much the reason they have made the BETA available, Microsoft has a big, big lab, with rows and rows of different kinds of computers with different video cards, sound cards, all the diversity of the rainbow for computer configurations...so that they can test compatibility...but they don't have in the lab, the real world, your pc and my pc...so they put the BETA out there and hope when you find something that you either tell them what you found...and it is the case that when something does not work, built into the Windows 7 is an application that sends information about what happened to Microsoft...we are not talking about personal information, any of your data...merely what your or my configuration is, what is on the pc, the driver, the application...and at what point a crash or problem or incompatability occurred....i.e. the symptons....information that points or narrows down the flow of events that resulted in something that stopped working.....regards...michael
Let me put the question another way: Do you or do you know of anyone who has a 64-bit version of Windows Vista or XP that have been able to run 32-bit apps?
Let me put the question another way: Do you or do you know of anyone who has a 64-bit version of Windows Vista or XP that have been able to run 32-bit apps?
Garth have you done many emails of docs from windows 7 to people on XP..
This is a really annoying thing about the Vistas. (When you have xp and recieve a word doc from someone with vistas you can not open it)
Note::: yes I know they have to save it a certain way for others to read it but I hate that I am having to request this all the time and to boot you would be surprised how many people do not know how to do a save as)
OR can you email me a word doc..
to try it out???
if you can will you PM so I can give you my work email?
Also how is it with reading CD Roms written on XP can it read all the info
This is a problem with Vistas.. I have a printer copier scanner disc that the Vistas computers have trouble reading the driver disk and It takes some major contortions to get it to see the drivers and load them.
Some things that vistas does that I do like is the ease with setting up multiple home /office etc network groups.
So I don not have to do a whole tutorial with new agents on what to do on their computer for network access at home verses work
Let me put the question another way: Do you or do you know of anyone who has a 64-bit version of Windows Vista or XP that have been able to run 32-bit apps?
Microsoft has a Windows 7 area, from the main Microsoft page you choose "windows" and choose "windows 7" from the drop down box...From the main Windows 7 page, I chose the "Ask a Question" area (on the right) and put in some key words...here is a result. Keywords: 32 bit applications run 64 bit
One thing I should point out, I think. In installing the Beta, 32 or 64 bit, after having a created partition, you are going to need to reinstall the application. I haven't gone into this, so perhaps better to be pro-active. So, whether you are creating a new partition, or installing to say a spare hard drive, you cant just go, and start up an already installed application on another area of your computer in 32 or 64 bit...there may be a work around, I just reinstall the apps I want to use in the new environment...
From my experience, as I have said earlier, we are not there yet on 64 bit applications, not enough out there. I think the way to put it is that the bar is higher, than in the days when we were going from 16 bit Window 3.xx to Windows 95/98/ME and beyond.. A one-eyed Traffic Cop
In going from 32 bit to 64 bit, there are "more under the hood" restrictions. For instance, and I need to put this as an opinion, I have been told, for instance, that Norton Anti-Virus, 32 bit, when installed, makes slight changes to core operating system files..in a 64 bit operating system, I understand that just isn't possible.. A Traffic Cop with an attitude
----
Back in the old days of Windows, where the software world was, was operating environments, not operating systems, there are substantial differences...once the software world moved to Windows NT (and let me say, I am not meaning to leave out the Mac folks, or the Unix/Linux folks) we were really using a true operating system.
Anyway, in that transition, the trick that was used was really sort of a hybrid operating system, things called a "thunking layer", it eased the transition, borrowing 16 and 32 bit pieces (windows 95/98 and less with windows ME) ...although with going from 32 bit to 64 bit, that process(es) aren't used anymore, there are some things going on the hood when you are using a 32 bit application in a 64 bit operating system, but I understand its merely expanding or padding the 32 bit instruction code (i.e the enhancements of the 64 bit processor)...I haven't sat down into the bowels of 64 bit Windows XP or Window 7, I would merely say again with the Traffic Cop example that he enforces the rules vigorously, applications can only do what is allowed..and the core code doesn't give applications any "wiggle room" to talk back to the core code...the core code just stops the application right then, right there..
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WordWolf
Please elaborate.
HOW is Windows 7 "not as annoying" as Vista?
Is it what 7 does that Vista does not do?
Is it what 7 doesn't do that Vista does?
Is it differences in how 7 does things Vista does?
http://xkcd.com/528/
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mchud11
That comic, the link, that is funny...
Vista feels to me, as slick, but slightly annoying, as in Microsoft appeared to be making decisions for us. I go to open a folder and want to look at the dates that files were last modified, in XP, I can change the folder options so the folder shows what I want, in Vista, however, I have yet to find it, in Vista, I have to do the right click thing and check off "date modified" every time, annoying, an example.
Vista, has characteristics of being Microsoft's Vietnam, sales haven't done as well as they wanted and Windows 7 is supposed to make up for Vistas shortcomings...
Efficiency, in connecting to the Internet, in Vista, is more efficient than XP, but...vista has some tweaks that still slow down Internet connectivity speed, and I had to find them all, and disable them all..all of them..annoying..the tcp/ip, the network pieces are too complex, and complexity means things can tend to slow down.
Windows 7 is more efficient, than Vista, from what I have read. Things run faster and faster is more necessary than ever now days. At the peak, we are talking about HD, 1080p, VC1, true HD sound and audio, you need a duo core nowdays. And we are in the middle of 32 bit, going forward to 64 bit..
So, my recommendation is try Windows 7 out, with conditions, those being that its installed on its own partition, and mess around. If you want to be on the cutting edge, and have 64 bit capability, install the 64 bit Window 7..now, I admit, that there are problems with the 64 bit thing, drivers (some not written), applications (not enough of them on 64 bit), we are not at 64 bit yet in the market place, its a year or so away, but you can get the taste of where things are going and that is what makes it fun...
good luck, if you have something specific you think I might be able to help with, do ask or write to me personally, I do my best to be timely with responses.....have a good one...
Edited by mchud11Link to comment
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WordWolf
Just looking, in general for Windows 7 information.
I plan on sticking with XP as long as I can, and migrating in steps to Ubuntu Linux when that's no longer an option.
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mchud11
No problem there WordWolf, Beta software, always, always has the possibility of data loss, so doing one's homework is essential. The software now, is not my grandmother's software, so to speak, things have changed since DOS days, but BETA, means BETA. Even if you are not dealing with Beta software, a defense is always always the best offense, backups of your important stuff.
I have barely scratched the surface of Linux, but I feel if I did go in that direction, it would be of value. Linux, as an open operating system, gets rid of many of the issues of proprietary software. Developers and software writers are around to design and implement applications that do the tasks we need of an operating system, word processors, video playing applications, so good luck and good fortune in your migration. To me, experience generates confidence, and very much so for computer operating systems, there is some learning curve, but the fact remains that computers are dumber than dirt. Its the software that is the brains...regards, michael
----------------------
Footnote: A joke. My only Microsoft joke, I know...came out of their early years in software..
How many Microsoft employees does it take to screw in a light bulb ?
Answer: NONE...they merely change the standard from light to darkness...
Hint: See Microsoft is a monopoly, or so the court said, so they just change the standard...dry, mean, I make no apologies.
Edited by mchud11Link to comment
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Jim
Just playing with Vista 7 for a little while and it seems good. But I'm totally satisfied with XP pro and won't switch until I can't get programs and drivers that will work with it.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, time for an Intel joke in rebuttal.
Two Intel Pentium engineers walk into a bar and order beers. The bartender says "that will be two-fifty each". One of the engineers slaps a five on the bar and says "keep the change".
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mchud11
Good one Jim, keep the change.......after reading that I realized my joke telling needs some work....my punch line wasn't correct...
the punch line is "None, they merely change the industry standard from light to darkness"
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GarthP2000
I've been playing around with Windows 7 for, ohh, about a week or so now, and I gotta say, ... I'm impressed, ... so far.
I'm approaching this with a good deal of caution, as I would with any future operating system upgrade/purchase; particularly since my experience with the infamous Windows ME.
THAT experience cost me a hard drive, and I was *not* a happy camper. Not by a long shot. Only Windows 2000 restored my faith in Micro$oft. (Such as that is)
So far, Windows 7 has been working like a champ. One of a couple of minor quirks I've come across is where I activate the sleep mode (which itself works quickly), and about 10-20 seconds later, the PC pops back on, and I haven't even moved the mouse. One suggestion I would make to Microsoft in that respect is to have an option to 'wake' the PC by keystroke.
As far as application performance, I'm installing and trying out my apps, and again so far, so good. :) Why, I just might starting to use Windows 7 for some serious work! Oh, by the way, it's the Windows 7 Ultimate version that I have, which includes all the Aero effects.
But I'll keep you all here posted on my progress. Good thing that it's going to last till August 1st. Gives me a little more than 6 months to try it out. And if this stability and all the goodies work out as it looks, I'll definitely be upgrading to Windows 7 when it becomes available.
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RumRunner
OK - open target here - I am a poster child for linux - worked on the 0.84 kernel back in 1994 and am still a member of the kernel development team - so feel free to ask questions about linux if you wish - although I rarely read this forum
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mchud11
Thanks for telling us about your experience so far. Its those quirks that sort of make it worthwhile or a headache. In looking over some of the tech sites, I hear a lot of "go for it" talk about just going 64 bit, which is fine, when there are enough applications to work in that environment, and I haven't seen that yet. There are some advanced video editing applications, but I haven't seen a whole big slew of things available....regards..michael
Thanks for the offer...not to be mean, or rude, or anything...where you are with Linux...do you get free polo shirts from time to time? To me, being validated for technical experience, expertise, involvement, means at least a freebie once a year....
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GarthP2000
Speaking of the 64 bit environment, can 32 bit apps work in 64 bit? Or what would it take to make them work on a 64 bit Windows system?
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mchud11
That is the million dollar question. Some can, some can't. The ones that "count" are drivers. Remember, we are first talking about the operating system working first and foremost. That is the operating system is an "environment" that programs or applications are running within. The operating system is the traffic cop of the computer. So, if you have a video card, that is 32 bit, if that runs, that is a good thing, but not guaranteed...its one of those things to research from the video card manufacturer, part of the homework to do, before installing Windows 7...and what about the sound driver, same thing...got a dvd player, same thing...
So, your question is very important. I stressed, and would like to restate that in my opinion, the best way to "mess around" with Windows 7 is a clean install to an available partition you have created or is available through say another hard drive you may have that does not have anything on it...creating what is called a "dual boot" machine.
Compatibility is the name of the game, an important goal for Microsoft, that is pretty much the reason they have made the BETA available, Microsoft has a big, big lab, with rows and rows of different kinds of computers with different video cards, sound cards, all the diversity of the rainbow for computer configurations...so that they can test compatibility...but they don't have in the lab, the real world, your pc and my pc...so they put the BETA out there and hope when you find something that you either tell them what you found...and it is the case that when something does not work, built into the Windows 7 is an application that sends information about what happened to Microsoft...we are not talking about personal information, any of your data...merely what your or my configuration is, what is on the pc, the driver, the application...and at what point a crash or problem or incompatability occurred....i.e. the symptons....information that points or narrows down the flow of events that resulted in something that stopped working.....regards...michael
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GarthP2000
Points understood, thanks. :)
Let me put the question another way: Do you or do you know of anyone who has a 64-bit version of Windows Vista or XP that have been able to run 32-bit apps?
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leafytwiglet
Garth have you done many emails of docs from windows 7 to people on XP..
This is a really annoying thing about the Vistas. (When you have xp and recieve a word doc from someone with vistas you can not open it)
Note::: yes I know they have to save it a certain way for others to read it but I hate that I am having to request this all the time and to boot you would be surprised how many people do not know how to do a save as)
OR can you email me a word doc..
to try it out???
if you can will you PM so I can give you my work email?
Also how is it with reading CD Roms written on XP can it read all the info
This is a problem with Vistas.. I have a printer copier scanner disc that the Vistas computers have trouble reading the driver disk and It takes some major contortions to get it to see the drivers and load them.
Some things that vistas does that I do like is the ease with setting up multiple home /office etc network groups.
So I don not have to do a whole tutorial with new agents on what to do on their computer for network access at home verses work
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mchud11
Microsoft has a Windows 7 area, from the main Microsoft page you choose "windows" and choose "windows 7" from the drop down box...From the main Windows 7 page, I chose the "Ask a Question" area (on the right) and put in some key words...here is a result. Keywords: 32 bit applications run 64 bit
http://qna.live.com/ShowQuestion.aspx?qid=...%3d%26form%3dQB
------
One thing I should point out, I think. In installing the Beta, 32 or 64 bit, after having a created partition, you are going to need to reinstall the application. I haven't gone into this, so perhaps better to be pro-active. So, whether you are creating a new partition, or installing to say a spare hard drive, you cant just go, and start up an already installed application on another area of your computer in 32 or 64 bit...there may be a work around, I just reinstall the apps I want to use in the new environment...
From my experience, as I have said earlier, we are not there yet on 64 bit applications, not enough out there. I think the way to put it is that the bar is higher, than in the days when we were going from 16 bit Window 3.xx to Windows 95/98/ME and beyond.. A one-eyed Traffic Cop
In going from 32 bit to 64 bit, there are "more under the hood" restrictions. For instance, and I need to put this as an opinion, I have been told, for instance, that Norton Anti-Virus, 32 bit, when installed, makes slight changes to core operating system files..in a 64 bit operating system, I understand that just isn't possible.. A Traffic Cop with an attitude
----
Back in the old days of Windows, where the software world was, was operating environments, not operating systems, there are substantial differences...once the software world moved to Windows NT (and let me say, I am not meaning to leave out the Mac folks, or the Unix/Linux folks) we were really using a true operating system.
Anyway, in that transition, the trick that was used was really sort of a hybrid operating system, things called a "thunking layer", it eased the transition, borrowing 16 and 32 bit pieces (windows 95/98 and less with windows ME) ...although with going from 32 bit to 64 bit, that process(es) aren't used anymore, there are some things going on the hood when you are using a 32 bit application in a 64 bit operating system, but I understand its merely expanding or padding the 32 bit instruction code (i.e the enhancements of the 64 bit processor)...I haven't sat down into the bowels of 64 bit Windows XP or Window 7, I would merely say again with the Traffic Cop example that he enforces the rules vigorously, applications can only do what is allowed..and the core code doesn't give applications any "wiggle room" to talk back to the core code...the core code just stops the application right then, right there..
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