He was half-right. It was the Word. Quite a bit of it, in fact. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. But to say there was nothing but the Word? Umm, no. There were other things that mattered immensely to him. There was money. There was power. There was unbridled sex. There was blackmail. There was coercion.
This bromide made a virtue out of being a brittle, reactionary geek with no relationhip skills, compassion or cultural maneuverability. It was a battle cry meant to snuff out dialogue, tension, paradox and mystery - all scary things to a hyper-Teutonic mindset.
Gosh, there were so many. Good ones waysider and opera.
You don't need to own property. You just need the use of it. You couldn't get anymore use out of it if you owned it, could you?
Paraphrasing Howard Allen, but with vp's approval.
Yeah, this one always got my goat...I guess it was good for them that a few of us actually had personal possessions for them to use. I work hard for what I have and am not selfish with things I own, however the choice is up to me if I choose to share it with someone. The higher ups would walk in and act as if all we owned was theirs...frankly it pi$$ed me off and I felt disrespected by these leeches. This was high on the list of reasons I disassociated myself from the morally bankrupt organization. It was more like what is yours is mine, however what was theirs was not ours. Ordinary Joe believer was abused by leadership in this way for the most part.
It must be tough on many of these former parasites that now have to climb on the treadmill of life like the rest of us. BTW, I was never impressed by Mr. Allen...when he was up in front of us spewing his so called "homespun wisdom", what came to mind was "What am I doing listening to this idiot?"...and that leads me to this hypocritical quote from the cornfield preacher...
The greatest leader is the greatest servent...in practice we were expected us to serve them.
I believe your statements are inaccurate from the get go:
#1--
From the PFAL syllabus:
"no one rises beyond what he believes and no one believes beyond what he is taught."
#2--
"People are to be loved, things are to be used."
wow, it didn't take long for the straw man to appear.
those two bits of wisdom were repeated ad nauseum by vpw, in as many different grammatical constructs as you can imagine. just because the pfal syllabus has them down one way (the post-class clean-up version) doesn't meant that's the way he always said it.
Well, you're incorrect, in that you're judging his statements based on a single source-
the pfal syllabus-
and pretending that was the SOLE source of comments from vpw.
As has been pointed out before (by HCW), some books were transcripts of vpw speaking,
that were then EDITED by people better at writing than vpw.
Don has made this same point the other day.
vpw said them lots of times, lots of ways. We all heard them.
Pretending you somehow missed them is silly.
No, I stand by my statements. I think this is yet another case of what Mike mentioned previously numerous times, about TVT's (twi's verbal traditions) and how they repeated themselves yet varied from actual written statements from VP. That is why I believe written documentation, when available, trumps the so-called verbal "recollections" because those recollections might be based on inaccurate and mistaken perceptions of former written statements previously written in certain contexts.
Bear in mind, the thread title is "VPW's patently false one-liners" so I just quoted written documentation of one statement, and btw that statement came from a certain context. One might as well at least get it accurate in its context before one condemns it.
Oh and BTW, I think the two statements are not patently false.
Thousands and thousands of people heard wierwille himself say this very thing in multiple formats, in a variety of paramutations. Does the thread have a "written only" disclaimer?
Even if he hadn't, the line you quoted in it's place is blatently false as well.
"If a man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant."
"If someone comes into the ministry, we don’t drop them, we stick with them. We never kick anyone out."
This is not patently false. Nobody was ever permanently kicked out of the ministry. if so who? Kicked out of the corps yes, but folks always have been welcomed back if they choose to.
Come on guys, we are talking about PATENTLY FALSE VPW one-liners....
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potato
are you sure you were with Howard every second of his life so that you can say with accuracy and conviction that he NEVER said that?
sirguessalot
what did vpw say about humpty dumpty? because i think he got it wrong like most everyone else does breaking was never humpty's issue...he wasnt even an egg accuracy ...yeah
potato
do we think humpty was an egg for the same reason we think jesus was a white guy with blue eyes? illustrated children's books?
waysider
Any two believers can make a marriage work.
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OperaBuff
"Kids, it's the Word and nothing but the Word."
He was half-right. It was the Word. Quite a bit of it, in fact. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. But to say there was nothing but the Word? Umm, no. There were other things that mattered immensely to him. There was money. There was power. There was unbridled sex. There was blackmail. There was coercion.
Did I mention money?
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waterbuffalo
Gosh, there were so many. Good ones waysider and opera.
You don't need to own property. You just need the use of it. You couldn't get anymore use out of it if you owned it, could you?
Paraphrasing Howard Allen, but with vp's approval.
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Yanagisawa
"I have no friends when it comes to the word!"
This bromide made a virtue out of being a brittle, reactionary geek with no relationhip skills, compassion or cultural maneuverability. It was a battle cry meant to snuff out dialogue, tension, paradox and mystery - all scary things to a hyper-Teutonic mindset.
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leafytwiglet
"When you know that you know that you know" :blink:
Does saying it three times like that mean I am right even when I am perhaps Wrong?
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Calflor
Yeah, this one always got my goat...I guess it was good for them that a few of us actually had personal possessions for them to use. I work hard for what I have and am not selfish with things I own, however the choice is up to me if I choose to share it with someone. The higher ups would walk in and act as if all we owned was theirs...frankly it pi$$ed me off and I felt disrespected by these leeches. This was high on the list of reasons I disassociated myself from the morally bankrupt organization. It was more like what is yours is mine, however what was theirs was not ours. Ordinary Joe believer was abused by leadership in this way for the most part.
It must be tough on many of these former parasites that now have to climb on the treadmill of life like the rest of us. BTW, I was never impressed by Mr. Allen...when he was up in front of us spewing his so called "homespun wisdom", what came to mind was "What am I doing listening to this idiot?"...and that leads me to this hypocritical quote from the cornfield preacher...
The greatest leader is the greatest servent...in practice we were expected us to serve them.
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oldiesman
I believe your statements are inaccurate from the get go:
#1--
From the PFAL syllabus:
"no one rises beyond what he believes and no one believes beyond what he is taught."
#2--
"People are to be loved, things are to be used."
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potato
wow, it didn't take long for the straw man to appear.
those two bits of wisdom were repeated ad nauseum by vpw, in as many different grammatical constructs as you can imagine. just because the pfal syllabus has them down one way (the post-class clean-up version) doesn't meant that's the way he always said it.
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waysider
Blast that old context boogaboo!
You are using a statement from the session dealing with the bogus "law" of believing. (page 3)
Close----but no cigar.
Like Mike say, "You gotta master that rascal!"(Paraphrased, of course.)
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WordWolf
Well, you're incorrect, in that you're judging his statements based on a single source-
the pfal syllabus-
and pretending that was the SOLE source of comments from vpw.
As has been pointed out before (by HCW), some books were transcripts of vpw speaking,
that were then EDITED by people better at writing than vpw.
Don has made this same point the other day.
vpw said them lots of times, lots of ways. We all heard them.
Pretending you somehow missed them is silly.
Well, OJ pleaded 100% absolutely not guilty, so....
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oldiesman
No, I stand by my statements. I think this is yet another case of what Mike mentioned previously numerous times, about TVT's (twi's verbal traditions) and how they repeated themselves yet varied from actual written statements from VP. That is why I believe written documentation, when available, trumps the so-called verbal "recollections" because those recollections might be based on inaccurate and mistaken perceptions of former written statements previously written in certain contexts.
Bear in mind, the thread title is "VPW's patently false one-liners" so I just quoted written documentation of one statement, and btw that statement came from a certain context. One might as well at least get it accurate in its context before one condemns it.
Oh and BTW, I think the two statements are not patently false.
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coolchef
oldies,i think you are an honest and sincere man but i also think you can be way off the wall at times
i heard the ole corn field vic say many of these things many of times.
let them who have ears listen.
is that a bible quote?
if not it should be
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oldiesman
To be fair, here are a couple of VPW statements that I believe to be patently false:
1 -- "tithing brings wings to life"
2 -- "you cannot afford not to tithe"
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waysider
TVT's!!!!
hahahahahaha
More like BVD's.
Thousands and thousands of people heard wierwille himself say this very thing in multiple formats, in a variety of paramutations. Does the thread have a "written only" disclaimer?
Even if he hadn't, the line you quoted in it's place is blatently false as well.
"If a man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant."
hahahahaha
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oldiesman
Here is another I believe to be false:
"Tithing is our minimum financial insurance, health and accident insurance."
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potato
"If someone comes into the ministry, we don’t drop them, we stick with them. We never kick anyone out."
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Jim
And on the same note...
"Everybody's welcome at The Way"
Now it might have been Howard's trademark, but close enough for everyone but Oldiesman
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RumRunner
Only if you are wearing ruby slippers and click your heels together three times while repeating "I know that I know that I know."
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oldiesman
There you go again Jim.
Howard never said that. He said: "there are no strangers at the way."
Accuracy is important!
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potato
are you sure you were with Howard every second of his life so that you can say with accuracy and conviction that he NEVER said that?
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sirguessalot
what did vpw say about humpty dumpty?
because i think he got it wrong like most everyone else does
breaking was never humpty's issue...he wasnt even an egg
accuracy ...yeah
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potato
do we think humpty was an egg for the same reason we think jesus was a white guy with blue eyes? illustrated children's books?
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JeffSjo
"Excuse me while I swallow a camel and choke on a gnat".......
No wait, that one was me.....
nevermind.
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oldiesman
This is not patently false. Nobody was ever permanently kicked out of the ministry. if so who? Kicked out of the corps yes, but folks always have been welcomed back if they choose to.
Come on guys, we are talking about PATENTLY FALSE VPW one-liners....
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