It's people like this guy that give serious Biblical Unitarian scholars a bad name. There are quite a few who can give better, more solid answers on this subject. The interviewer countered with the same "proof texts" that Trinitarians always use, and this guy just bungled it. It's like VP's Jesus Christ is Not God. Good premise, poor presentation.
Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Even the people of the time of Jesus Christ did'nt call him God. Hmmmm, maybe because he was a man?
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
In the New Testament Jesus Christ is referred to as God’s Son 68 times. At no place
does the expression God the Son occur. Without “God the Son,” Jesus Christ cannot be God.
And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God,which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness. And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice unto them.
WorldNetDaily will proclaim anyone an "expert" as long as they adhere to their extremist political views
There was an interesting article about him in The Nation a few years back..
Throughout his fifteen-year career as a right-wing evangelical minister, Peterson has never shied from bombastic assaults on targets ranging from civil rights leaders to liberal Democrats to undocumented immigrants. But while Peterson's strident style may be unique, with his extremist politics he is merely playing the role of front man for a murky, well-funded network of white nationalist activists and right-wing Beltway operatives. By deploying Peterson to gatherings like the Heritage event and into the media, this coterie of conservatives have been able to apply a bold veneer of blackness over the brand of bigotry they find increasingly inconvenient to espouse on their own. Peterson has no professional or political accomplishments to speak of, beyond directing a small inner-city aid ministry and hosting a radio show syndicated on a handful of AM stations across the country. To his sponsors, though, that's irrelevant; it is his immunity from charges of racism that matters.
A former welfare recipient and follower of Louis Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson, Peterson says he experienced a political awakening fifteen years ago, when he simultaneously discovered Jesus and Ronald Reagan.
Well, that's what Wierwille said, but it isn't necessarily so. He is called 'God' at least once, by Thomas the Apostle.
There are good arguments as to why Jesus is not God, but the lack of the phrase 'God the Son' is not one of them.
There are a couple of verses where he is called "God" in a representational sense. but the phrase "God THE SON" does not appear anywhere in the Bible. Neither does "God The Holy Spirit" for that matter.
WorldNetDaily will proclaim anyone an "expert" as long as they adhere to their extremist political views
There was an interesting article about him in The Nation a few years back..
:unsure:
<_< --consider the source
Jessie Lee Peterson. . . I have listened to him once or twice. . . having the radio on, but not really paying attention. Kinda a nut. OHHHHH breaking news!! LOL
Too funny.
On the other hand the Bible Answer Man has some good stuff on this topic. . . . some concerning TWI and their unique take on Jesus. Hank Hannegraf is a really nice man and somewhat accessible (With a little determination) and can answer any questions one might have.
Anyone know of any scholarly (well, not too scholarly; something readable) study of the scriptures to support the idea that JCNG? We all read VPW's book, but is there anything else sensible out there?
I for one have never believed that JC=G and it was with some astonishment that I came to understand that some people really do believe this. They really do and have prayed for me to receive deeper understanding (LOL).
Anyone know of any scholarly (well, not too scholarly; something readable) study of the scriptures to support the idea that JCNG? We all read VPW's book, but is there anything else sensible out there?
I for one have never believed that JC=G and it was with some astonishment that I came to understand that some people really do believe this. They really do and have prayed for me to receive deeper understanding (LOL).
Twinky,
Yes, there is an abundance of material dealing with this subject. It was by no means VPW's idea, nor did he even do that great a job at presenting it in his book.
CES/STFI has a book called "One God and One Lord" that you can get from their web site. I haven't actually read it yet (haven't had time) but I hear it does a pretty good job.
What I have read includes Anthony Buzzard's books, The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity's Self Inflicted Wound, and Jesus Was Not a Trinitarian, and the small booklet, Who Is Jesus? They can be gotten through his web site, http://focusonthekingdom.org/index.html. He is a well respected scholar, and in his books he quotes many other scholars' works - and gives references! There is also a number of shorter articles on his site that you can read online.
There are a number of other sites that have articles which refer to the scholarly work that has been done on this subject. It amazed me when I found out how much has been done, while we were just expected to use VP's book and nothing else. Rather than copy all the links, I'll just direct you to the links section on my web site:
I don't think I'd consider the STFI lot, knowing its roots.
Yes, there are books out there, some available, some out of print. How to choose from a welter of things that you can't see?
Personally, I would recommend starting with Buzzard's books. They work as sort of a reference to other theologians, and then you can look into some of the books he references.
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cheranne
another freakn weirdo!
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Mark Clarke
It's people like this guy that give serious Biblical Unitarian scholars a bad name. There are quite a few who can give better, more solid answers on this subject. The interviewer countered with the same "proof texts" that Trinitarians always use, and this guy just bungled it. It's like VP's Jesus Christ is Not God. Good premise, poor presentation.
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kimberly
Whutevvvuuhhh.....hallelujah, the name Jesus Christ is spoken on the airwaves.
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Preacher
Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Even the people of the time of Jesus Christ did'nt call him God. Hmmmm, maybe because he was a man?
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
In the New Testament Jesus Christ is referred to as God’s Son 68 times. At no place
does the expression God the Son occur. Without “God the Son,” Jesus Christ cannot be God.
And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God,which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness. And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice unto them.
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Oakspear
There are good arguments as to why Jesus is not God, but the lack of the phrase 'God the Son' is not one of them.
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waysider
Geeze
This is the same kind of logic found in the old joke, "all those not here, raise your hands."
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mstar1
WorldNetDaily will proclaim anyone an "expert" as long as they adhere to their extremist political views
There was an interesting article about him in The Nation a few years back..
:unsure:<_< --consider the source
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Mark Clarke
There are a couple of verses where he is called "God" in a representational sense. but the phrase "God THE SON" does not appear anywhere in the Bible. Neither does "God The Holy Spirit" for that matter.
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geisha779
Jessie Lee Peterson. . . I have listened to him once or twice. . . having the radio on, but not really paying attention. Kinda a nut. OHHHHH breaking news!! LOL
Too funny.
On the other hand the Bible Answer Man has some good stuff on this topic. . . . some concerning TWI and their unique take on Jesus. Hank Hannegraf is a really nice man and somewhat accessible (With a little determination) and can answer any questions one might have.
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Twinky
Only slightly off topic -
Anyone know of any scholarly (well, not too scholarly; something readable) study of the scriptures to support the idea that JCNG? We all read VPW's book, but is there anything else sensible out there?
I for one have never believed that JC=G and it was with some astonishment that I came to understand that some people really do believe this. They really do and have prayed for me to receive deeper understanding (LOL).
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Mark Clarke
Twinky,
Yes, there is an abundance of material dealing with this subject. It was by no means VPW's idea, nor did he even do that great a job at presenting it in his book.
CES/STFI has a book called "One God and One Lord" that you can get from their web site. I haven't actually read it yet (haven't had time) but I hear it does a pretty good job.
What I have read includes Anthony Buzzard's books, The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity's Self Inflicted Wound, and Jesus Was Not a Trinitarian, and the small booklet, Who Is Jesus? They can be gotten through his web site, http://focusonthekingdom.org/index.html. He is a well respected scholar, and in his books he quotes many other scholars' works - and gives references! There is also a number of shorter articles on his site that you can read online.
There are a number of other sites that have articles which refer to the scholarly work that has been done on this subject. It amazed me when I found out how much has been done, while we were just expected to use VP's book and nothing else. Rather than copy all the links, I'll just direct you to the links section on my web site:
http://godskingdomfirst.org/intro.htm#links
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Twinky
Thanks, Mark. I know the Buzzard website.
I don't think I'd consider the STFI lot, knowing its roots.
Yes, there are books out there, some available, some out of print. How to choose from a welter of things that you can't see?
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Mark Clarke
Personally, I would recommend starting with Buzzard's books. They work as sort of a reference to other theologians, and then you can look into some of the books he references.
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