god that sounds disgusting! we mixed used grounds when I was growing up because we were so poor, but never would have put salt in the coffee. GROSS. I guess by the time I moved anywhere where twi peeps were doing that, I'd realized it's not a good idea to drink the coffee.
thank god I don't have to rely on "believing" to get a decent cup of coffee these days. since I quit tithing to that devilish group, it's amazing how many things I can afford.
Thank God I never had to rely on believing to get a decent cup of coffee when I was involved with The Way. The store always seemed to have plenty. P.S. I never reused coffee grounds in 18 years nor did I ever reuse Styrofoam cups either for any class that I ran. That's not to say I did not hear it went on in places But we bought cups by the case there was no need to reuse them. Seems I remember some branch leader at some point suggesting that we did. I pointed out it was a violation of the health laws and of course we are to obey the laws of men. That was the end of that subject.
Thank God I never had to rely on believing to get a decent cup of coffee when I was involved with The Way. The store always seemed to have plenty. P.S. I never reused coffee grounds in 18 years nor did I ever reuse Styrofoam cups either for any class that I ran. That's not to say I did not hear it went on in places But we bought cups by the case there was no need to reuse them. Seems I remember some branch leader at some point suggesting that we did. I pointed out it was a violation of the health laws and of course we are to obey the laws of men. That was the end of that subject.
I guess if you stayed in one place and held down a steady job, you could do things like that. Not everyone had that luxury.
The day old grounds and salt trick, by the way, was introduced to us by Uncle Harry. There weren't very many who were prepared to contradict his advise.
In 10 1/2 years I now know that I am valuable, to me. I matter and I'm important and I have value in this life.
I know, now, that I don't need another's validation to take some kind of action for myself.
I understand that I don't have to ask permission to be happy or sad or angry or ask questions.
I get it that it's ok for me to search my own heart and really look at what's in there.
I finally see that if I need something, it's ok that I do and I don't need to figure out why someone else says I shouldn't/couldn't/wouldn't if I were them.
My wants and needs are just that; mine and if they don't line up, then it's my own gig and mostly I don't care.
I know that I can parent as I understand and with the eye towards what is best for my children, no one elses.
I learn that I can say no when I mean it and not have to live with the yes that I never wanted.
At the end of the day if I put head to pillow, it's just me and God, period and it always has been.
I guess if you stayed in one place and held down a steady job, you could do things like that. Not everyone had that luxury.
The day old grounds and salt trick, by the way, was introduced to us by Uncle Harry. There weren't very many who were prepared to contradict his advise.
LOL when we ran our classes for WOW I got all of us to bring up all our real coffee cups and washed them myself each day to make sure everyone had a clean cup. I still remember getting the lipstick cup at the class I took and found it a bit jarring.
My family coordinator agreed with me. Fortunately we had enough cups to go around.
I guess if you stayed in one place and held down a steady job, you could do things like that. Not everyone had that luxury.
The day old grounds and salt trick, by the way, was introduced to us by Uncle Harry. There weren't very many who were prepared to contradict his advise.
Actually I know this might be a revolutionary idea :blink: but we bought cups and coffee from the Twig account.
I learned a lot of what others have said, but in addition to that, I would also say that an important thing I learned is self-value. Instead of always doing what others, whether leadership, my parents, etc. wanted, [b]I had to learn to do what I wanted, and to believe what I figure out on my own. [/b] It was difficult, as a supposedly intelligent kid, to grow up and automatically reject my own thoughts because they didn't line up with leadership or what I was told the bible said. Now that I am both out of TWI and an adult, I have learned that I am capable of making good decisions, and just because someone in authority tells me something doesn't make it gospel truth.
Well spoken, Mr. P-Mosh. I kinda learned the same thing. Nobody knows what's right for me better than me. And, why wouldn't that be so? Didn't Jesus die so we would have direct access to him?
Actually I know this might be a revolutionary idea :blink: but we bought cups and coffee from the Twig account.
May I again remind you, that if that "account" was derived from abundant sharing, you were acting in violation of standard operating procedure that most were held accountable to observe.
May I again remind you, that if that "account" was derived from abundant sharing, you were acting in violation of standard operating procedure that most were held accountable to observe.
Well you would need to take that up with the Limb it seems they thought petty cash was a revolutionary idea as well...... As such no violation, well no ticket anyway, or azz chewing
so i morphed from peeking through someone's tiny keyhole at God
to becoming small enough to simply walk through any hole as if it were a wide open door
Nice one!
Lots of good points on this thread, yet it's all so simple and obvious. Quite possibly some of us learned a lot of it (the beginnings, anyway) in infancy. So here we are again, closing the circle. Or enlarging ourselves.
I do think that most of us are wiser following our interlude with TWI. More mature. Would that wisdom have come anyway? Some of it.
I've learned among other things to be kinder and more compassionate. Patience was never my strong point and TWI definitely didn't help there. But now, patience seems effortless.
Was looking back at the things I've learned in the last few post-Way years and realized that Gal 5:22-23 is much more evident in my life.
But - I'm still learning, still a work in progress. :)
Although some/many may disagree with me, I feel the question is best asked as "what are you learning"?
The Intro:
I don't feel my life really started or got moving in a coherent direction until some five or six years after being all but on the fringe(s) of the ministry. One of the true indicators that I was no longer willing to accept compromises that I was not comfortable with happened in Litchfield Park, Arizona. That would be somewhere around 1987 or 1988. I called the ministry and lied, telling them I wanted to meet with the Arizona Limb Leader. I prepared a sign on a stick that said "Learn How to Abuse Others - associate with The Way". I took my sign along with me to the Limb Leader's home and walked up and down the front of his driveway during the day, like in the road in front of his home. The neighbor across the street saw me and I believe called the Limb Leaders phone. The LL came out and sort of yelled out, from a distance, "come on in", motioning for me to come into his home. I ignored him and continued walking. In around ten minutes the police arrived, the policeman offerred to let me go, if I would drive off. I refused. I was taken into custody and delivered to the Pima County jail, where I spent the night in custody. The charge was: picketing in a residential area. The seriousness of the offense is just below that of having a smoky muffler. Anyway, it went to trial and the LL cried and wept throughout the short procedure/trial. I was fined 150 dollars or so. I paid the fine off at the rate of 5 dollars a month (the minimum allowed by the court).
During this period of my life, say 1984 to 1989, I continued to focus on personal computing. The focus was not due in any part to that ministry idea or statement or attitude TWI had kicked around for years, namely that if you left the ministry, like were kicked out of the Way Corps, or got divorced after being married by TWI, that it was in your best interest to "figure out what you were going to do with the rest of your life". Its merely that being in a position of TWI not having an influence on me, I made decisions entirely on my feelings, interests, goals, ect. My life became more and more goal-oriented. I found myself accomplishing many tasks and using skills I did not really know that I possessed. By 1993, I was working as a contractor in Redmond, Washington, working at locations such as: Midisoft, Microsoft, and Wall Data. By 1995, I was earning 47K per year, working in Silicon Valley. Three years passed and I was earning 67K.
What I am learning:
All we can do is influence others.
All we ever have is an opinion.
Perception is everything.
Unless we have a gun to our head, the word "threatened" is nevera an accurate descriptor, the word "promised" is the descriptor, I.E. "he threatened me with a lawsuit", no, he promised you a lawsuit. I may feel threatened, I.E. the potential for harm, but the term threatened only applys to criminal acts against our person.
Say what I mean and mean what I say.
There are compromises I can live with and there are compromises I cannot life with. Knowing the difference is wisdom.
When people say I have to do this, or they say that I made them do that....I say, I don't have to do anything and I tell them I did not have a gun to their head, so how about growing up and being an adult.
I endeavor to say "I feel this way", "it is my opinion that", "I understand you to have said..."
Sorry is not a word. If someone says "I am sorry", I say, no, if what you mean is "you apologize", then say so, I feel the word "sorry" is an indicator that you have failed to take personal responsibility for the mistake/error...
Fair is a concept. That fairness exists in the employer - employee relationship is the height of stupidity.
Words only have meaning with regard to the understanding of the bearer. Almost all words have "wiggle room". Ask Bill Clinton, per Bill.."it depends on what your meaning of is is".
Allow no one to libel, slander, or defame your character.
There are times when it is best to be quiet and there are times to speak your mind assertively.
It is essential to know what a boundary is and what a barrier is when interacting with others. Setting boundaries and barriers with others is a healthy, essential, and required skill.
Eight or nine decisions/actions out of ten others make are based on emotion, not logic.
Confrontation is the process of "finding out the truth of a matter".
It is lonely at the top.
Most people, as Winston Churchhill said "live in a grey twilight".
END OF THE RANT---
If you want more, I could go on for another couple of pages...
Hi Michael, haven't met you before, but welcome to the Cafe. Very glad to hear that you've very much learned that you aren't a grease spot by midnight and there is a thriving life after TWI. Many of us here could agree with your statement: "I don't feel my life really started or got moving [again] in a coherent direction until some five or six years after being all but on the fringe(s) of the ministry" - with the added word, for some of us.
Your picketing story is so funny. Probably a demo to your LL how copped out you were (LOL).
Er...I was thinking of something else on "learning".
The Intro:
I was living in West Hollywood. A quarter million dollar, one bedroom condo, situated between Hollywood Blvd. and Sunset Blvd ( a Condo that was appreciating at 10K per month in value). My next door neighbor was the academy nominated actor: Robert F. (for best supporting actor - Jackie Brown). My wife and I had underpaid our federal income tax. I opted for protection with that set of IRS statues that allow paying ten cents on the dollar. You see that sort of claim by companies on the television all the time. What they do not tell you is that you do really pay back one dollar on the dollar, its just that the settlement allows you to pay ten cents on the dollar, the remainder is not at interest or penalty, but the IRS gets a lien on your home or whatever of value you have...anyway, I did the process myself. What happened in a period of a bit under three years still amazes me today. What I did was follow the rules. I read all the Federal Statues on those aspects of the law, i.e. my obligations to the IRS and the IRS's obligations to me. I followed the rules, the IRS did not. I made a telephone call to the IRS agent who was the supervisor for that particular Department in Los Angeles, actually many calls. What became apparent, was that I was dealing with an incompetent Federal Employee. I finally said to her in a voice mail, to get off her foot and obey Federal Statues, instead, she called the Inspector Generals office for the IRS...this would be what is called, the IRS police force, Federal Officers who job it is to prosecute tax evasion, fraud, threats made against IRS agents....within a week, a Federal Officer was at my place of employment wanting to talk to me. We had a four of five minute interview. I did not back down. About two years later, after the Federal Government provided me all the documents, as required under the Freedom of Information Act...almost everything came together...the frosting on top of the cake, was an article by a Deputy Director of the IRS, who at an IRS conference held at UCLA had been interviewed by the Los Angeles Times with regard to incompetence in following Federal Statues in "Offers of Compromise"..that is that process I started with the IRS to pay my back taxes. The FOI request, that big stack of documents the Federal Goverment had to give me, showed a botched investigation into my background, inaccuracies that would allow me to sue the Federal Government for damages....the problem was...what were the damages...unless they were in excess of 15 or 20 thousand dollars, it was a waste of time... The bottom line is that I was accurate, from the start, the IRS failed to obey those rules established by Congress...call it me being right, whatever...I did not, however WIN...its was only keeping my head above water...
The Stuff I Am Learning (with this experience considered)
Assertiveness is critical to survival. Its not necessary to argue with anyone, it is necessary to be assertive with everyone. If required, that is, if you have been assertive, said "this is how I feel" or "this is my opinion" and you perceive you are not being listened to, understood, validated....say it again, say it again, say it again, as if you are a record player, if you need to change a few words, fine, just say your point over and over again...compromising at this point means certain failure... In other words a conversation means communication between two or more parties, if you have done your homework, communicated your idea properly, simply and directly to another party, well the ball is in their hands...anything that diverts from them having the ball means "the record player"...they get the record player until the conversation ends...that is they walk away, they give up, or they do the "right thing" and act or behave like an adult...
Hi Michael, haven't met you before, but welcome to the Cafe. Very glad to hear that you've very much learned that you aren't a grease spot by midnight and there is a thriving life after TWI. Many of us here could agree with your statement: "I don't feel my life really started or got moving [again] in a coherent direction until some five or six years after being all but on the fringe(s) of the ministry" - with the added word, for some of us.
Your picketing story is so funny. Probably a demo to your LL how copped out you were (LOL).
Thanks Twinky. TWI was really to me, a very intense experience. I went into TWI with virtually no set of skills, job wise, world wise, and so on. I did feel as though I was dealing with an organization that was honest, what happened during those years was more like experiencing a "do it yourself ministry" by which I mean that TWI turned out to be a ministry that really had nothing physical, they did have a clue about things spiritual, after all, I did learn how to speak in tongues, yet the physical side, that is getting something accomplished was a constant stuggle, and for me, dire poverty.
I spent a great deal of alone time after the real separation with the ministry. If I had to do those separation years over again, I think I would have gotten into some counseling, yet I have no regrets about not getting counselling, due to the fact that over the years I have read so many, many books on cults, abuse, and on and on, and it still doesn't appear to me that any counselling during that time would have been "the answer" due to the lack of availability of competent counselors, per se. In other words, it is my belief that the TWI experience was so unusual, that the only real counselors are other individuals who have successfully moved on from TWI.
If I was telling someone who just left TWI what would be the first best book to read, it would be Victor Frankls book "Mans Search For Meaning", which is the account of survival in and out of a Nazi concentration camp. It is an excellent example of man's capability to come back from isolation, abuse, all of the extremes..
Michael, stick around, you will find much to help you here. We have mostly all been through it; some here have people they care about involved with TWI but they themselves are not.
Enjoy life and keep learning.
I'm sending you a PM so's not to derail this thread.
I spent a great deal of alone time after the real separation with the ministry. If I had to do those separation years over again, I think I would have gotten into some counseling, yet I have no regrets about not getting counselling, due to the fact that over the years I have read so many, many books on cults, abuse, and on and on, and it still doesn't appear to me that any counselling during that time would have been "the answer" due to the lack of availability of competent counselors, per se. In other words, it is my belief that the TWI experience was so unusual, that the only real counselors are other individuals who have successfully moved on from TWI.
</snip>
I totally get you on this, michael. it's really hard for many professionals to relate to what living in a very controlling cult is like, and hence unless they have the training, they are at a loss as to how to help and can actually give bad advice that does more harm than good. I got lucky when I went looking for the people who helped me and my kids the most, because I looked for people with training and experience in domestic abuse. I couldn't even talk about the cult experience for a long time, but it was so intertwined with the domestic abuse that eventually I had to start talking about it. I got a lot of healing in the process, but I really needed GS and to know there were other people going through or who had gone through the same things.
If I was telling someone who just left TWI what would be the first best book to read, it would be Victor Frankls book "Mans Search For Meaning", which is the account of survival in and out of a Nazi concentration camp. It is an excellent example of man's capability to come back from isolation, abuse, all of the extremes..
i agree. this one rises to the top for me too
...Frankl's story certainly seems to reveal some deeper roots of our various pre-twi, twi and post-twi conditions and experiences and whatnot
I totally get you on this, michael. it's really hard for many professionals to relate to what living in a very controlling cult is like, and hence unless they have the training, they are at a loss as to how to help and can actually give bad advice that does more harm than good. I got lucky when I went looking for the people who helped me and my kids the most, because I looked for people with training and experience in domestic abuse. I couldn't even talk about the cult experience for a long time, but it was so intertwined with the domestic abuse that eventually I had to start talking about it. I got a lot of healing in the process, but I really needed GS and to know there were other people going through or who had gone through the same things.
Excellent. Raw excellence. I went a different way, but the end result appears to be the same. With me, I couldn't shut up, so that did not get me too far, so I wrote a book, even travelled to England to publish it. It did not get published and that was a good thing. Until some 12 years ago, I had no idea of what alcoholism was about, and I spent some time with an alcoholic, now I am not saying I know what being an alcoholic is about, having never been one...but that was the first time that I got acquainted with the phrase "digging deep". Again, I am not meaning to be an expert or skilled in "digging deep", merely that it is something important, and definitely a part of recovery with regard to TWI, in my opinion...thanks...
Recommended Posts
potato
LOL! yes!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Thank God I never had to rely on believing to get a decent cup of coffee when I was involved with The Way. The store always seemed to have plenty. P.S. I never reused coffee grounds in 18 years nor did I ever reuse Styrofoam cups either for any class that I ran. That's not to say I did not hear it went on in places But we bought cups by the case there was no need to reuse them. Seems I remember some branch leader at some point suggesting that we did. I pointed out it was a violation of the health laws and of course we are to obey the laws of men. That was the end of that subject.
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I guess if you stayed in one place and held down a steady job, you could do things like that. Not everyone had that luxury.
The day old grounds and salt trick, by the way, was introduced to us by Uncle Harry. There weren't very many who were prepared to contradict his advise.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Shellon
In 10 1/2 years I now know that I am valuable, to me. I matter and I'm important and I have value in this life.
I know, now, that I don't need another's validation to take some kind of action for myself.
I understand that I don't have to ask permission to be happy or sad or angry or ask questions.
I get it that it's ok for me to search my own heart and really look at what's in there.
I finally see that if I need something, it's ok that I do and I don't need to figure out why someone else says I shouldn't/couldn't/wouldn't if I were them.
My wants and needs are just that; mine and if they don't line up, then it's my own gig and mostly I don't care.
I know that I can parent as I understand and with the eye towards what is best for my children, no one elses.
I learn that I can say no when I mean it and not have to live with the yes that I never wanted.
At the end of the day if I put head to pillow, it's just me and God, period and it always has been.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
leafytwiglet
LOL when we ran our classes for WOW I got all of us to bring up all our real coffee cups and washed them myself each day to make sure everyone had a clean cup. I still remember getting the lipstick cup at the class I took and found it a bit jarring.
My family coordinator agreed with me. Fortunately we had enough cups to go around.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Actually I know this might be a revolutionary idea :blink: but we bought cups and coffee from the Twig account.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Well spoken, Mr. P-Mosh. I kinda learned the same thing. Nobody knows what's right for me better than me. And, why wouldn't that be so? Didn't Jesus die so we would have direct access to him?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
May I again remind you, that if that "account" was derived from abundant sharing, you were acting in violation of standard operating procedure that most were held accountable to observe.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Well you would need to take that up with the Limb it seems they thought petty cash was a revolutionary idea as well...... As such no violation, well no ticket anyway, or azz chewing
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
Priceless and soooo true! I love it!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
as my manner is
a large part of my transformation
in the wake of my baptism in disillusionment
involved turning completely around
and diving directly into the very oceans
that pfal/vpw/twi and ilk teach us to suspect, mock, scorn, reject and otherwise try to convert, contort, twist or avoid
which includes ...1/2 millenia or so of protestant experience, history, doctrine, practice, writing, art, literature, humor, etc...
...2 millenia or so of judeo-christian experience, history, doctrine, practice, writing, art, literature, humor, etc...
...most all strands of jewish experience, history, doctrine, practice, writing, art, literature, humor, etc...
...most all strands of any religious experience, experience, history, doctrine, practice, writing, art, literature, humor, etc...
...most any strand of historic, scientific, psychological, philosophical, metaphysical, mystical experience, history, doctrine, practice, writing, art, literature, humor, etc...
so i morphed from peeking through someone's tiny keyhole at God
to becoming small enough to simply walk through any hole as if it were a wide open door
becoming free to notice, taste, touch, feel, think
...to be curious, specific and kind
and its been a baptism of baptisms
in streams of sobering possibilities
and awesome realities
as if God is already always
on all sides of all doors
where one need not be lost and adrift simply for entering the water
thanks for asking Twinky
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Nice one!
Lots of good points on this thread, yet it's all so simple and obvious. Quite possibly some of us learned a lot of it (the beginnings, anyway) in infancy. So here we are again, closing the circle. Or enlarging ourselves.
I do think that most of us are wiser following our interlude with TWI. More mature. Would that wisdom have come anyway? Some of it.
I've learned among other things to be kinder and more compassionate. Patience was never my strong point and TWI definitely didn't help there. But now, patience seems effortless.
Was looking back at the things I've learned in the last few post-Way years and realized that Gal 5:22-23 is much more evident in my life.
But - I'm still learning, still a work in progress. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mchud11
Although some/many may disagree with me, I feel the question is best asked as "what are you learning"?
The Intro:
I don't feel my life really started or got moving in a coherent direction until some five or six years after being all but on the fringe(s) of the ministry. One of the true indicators that I was no longer willing to accept compromises that I was not comfortable with happened in Litchfield Park, Arizona. That would be somewhere around 1987 or 1988. I called the ministry and lied, telling them I wanted to meet with the Arizona Limb Leader. I prepared a sign on a stick that said "Learn How to Abuse Others - associate with The Way". I took my sign along with me to the Limb Leader's home and walked up and down the front of his driveway during the day, like in the road in front of his home. The neighbor across the street saw me and I believe called the Limb Leaders phone. The LL came out and sort of yelled out, from a distance, "come on in", motioning for me to come into his home. I ignored him and continued walking. In around ten minutes the police arrived, the policeman offerred to let me go, if I would drive off. I refused. I was taken into custody and delivered to the Pima County jail, where I spent the night in custody. The charge was: picketing in a residential area. The seriousness of the offense is just below that of having a smoky muffler. Anyway, it went to trial and the LL cried and wept throughout the short procedure/trial. I was fined 150 dollars or so. I paid the fine off at the rate of 5 dollars a month (the minimum allowed by the court).
During this period of my life, say 1984 to 1989, I continued to focus on personal computing. The focus was not due in any part to that ministry idea or statement or attitude TWI had kicked around for years, namely that if you left the ministry, like were kicked out of the Way Corps, or got divorced after being married by TWI, that it was in your best interest to "figure out what you were going to do with the rest of your life". Its merely that being in a position of TWI not having an influence on me, I made decisions entirely on my feelings, interests, goals, ect. My life became more and more goal-oriented. I found myself accomplishing many tasks and using skills I did not really know that I possessed. By 1993, I was working as a contractor in Redmond, Washington, working at locations such as: Midisoft, Microsoft, and Wall Data. By 1995, I was earning 47K per year, working in Silicon Valley. Three years passed and I was earning 67K.
What I am learning:
All we can do is influence others.
All we ever have is an opinion.
Perception is everything.
Unless we have a gun to our head, the word "threatened" is nevera an accurate descriptor, the word "promised" is the descriptor, I.E. "he threatened me with a lawsuit", no, he promised you a lawsuit. I may feel threatened, I.E. the potential for harm, but the term threatened only applys to criminal acts against our person.
Say what I mean and mean what I say.
There are compromises I can live with and there are compromises I cannot life with. Knowing the difference is wisdom.
When people say I have to do this, or they say that I made them do that....I say, I don't have to do anything and I tell them I did not have a gun to their head, so how about growing up and being an adult.
I endeavor to say "I feel this way", "it is my opinion that", "I understand you to have said..."
Sorry is not a word. If someone says "I am sorry", I say, no, if what you mean is "you apologize", then say so, I feel the word "sorry" is an indicator that you have failed to take personal responsibility for the mistake/error...
Fair is a concept. That fairness exists in the employer - employee relationship is the height of stupidity.
Words only have meaning with regard to the understanding of the bearer. Almost all words have "wiggle room". Ask Bill Clinton, per Bill.."it depends on what your meaning of is is".
Allow no one to libel, slander, or defame your character.
There are times when it is best to be quiet and there are times to speak your mind assertively.
It is essential to know what a boundary is and what a barrier is when interacting with others. Setting boundaries and barriers with others is a healthy, essential, and required skill.
Eight or nine decisions/actions out of ten others make are based on emotion, not logic.
Confrontation is the process of "finding out the truth of a matter".
It is lonely at the top.
Most people, as Winston Churchhill said "live in a grey twilight".
END OF THE RANT---
If you want more, I could go on for another couple of pages...
regards...Michael Chudzinski
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Hi Michael, haven't met you before, but welcome to the Cafe. Very glad to hear that you've very much learned that you aren't a grease spot by midnight and there is a thriving life after TWI. Many of us here could agree with your statement: "I don't feel my life really started or got moving [again] in a coherent direction until some five or six years after being all but on the fringe(s) of the ministry" - with the added word, for some of us.
Your picketing story is so funny. Probably a demo to your LL how copped out you were (LOL).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mchud11
Wow, am I up on a caffeinated beverage.
Er...I was thinking of something else on "learning".
The Intro:
I was living in West Hollywood. A quarter million dollar, one bedroom condo, situated between Hollywood Blvd. and Sunset Blvd ( a Condo that was appreciating at 10K per month in value). My next door neighbor was the academy nominated actor: Robert F. (for best supporting actor - Jackie Brown). My wife and I had underpaid our federal income tax. I opted for protection with that set of IRS statues that allow paying ten cents on the dollar. You see that sort of claim by companies on the television all the time. What they do not tell you is that you do really pay back one dollar on the dollar, its just that the settlement allows you to pay ten cents on the dollar, the remainder is not at interest or penalty, but the IRS gets a lien on your home or whatever of value you have...anyway, I did the process myself. What happened in a period of a bit under three years still amazes me today. What I did was follow the rules. I read all the Federal Statues on those aspects of the law, i.e. my obligations to the IRS and the IRS's obligations to me. I followed the rules, the IRS did not. I made a telephone call to the IRS agent who was the supervisor for that particular Department in Los Angeles, actually many calls. What became apparent, was that I was dealing with an incompetent Federal Employee. I finally said to her in a voice mail, to get off her foot and obey Federal Statues, instead, she called the Inspector Generals office for the IRS...this would be what is called, the IRS police force, Federal Officers who job it is to prosecute tax evasion, fraud, threats made against IRS agents....within a week, a Federal Officer was at my place of employment wanting to talk to me. We had a four of five minute interview. I did not back down. About two years later, after the Federal Government provided me all the documents, as required under the Freedom of Information Act...almost everything came together...the frosting on top of the cake, was an article by a Deputy Director of the IRS, who at an IRS conference held at UCLA had been interviewed by the Los Angeles Times with regard to incompetence in following Federal Statues in "Offers of Compromise"..that is that process I started with the IRS to pay my back taxes. The FOI request, that big stack of documents the Federal Goverment had to give me, showed a botched investigation into my background, inaccuracies that would allow me to sue the Federal Government for damages....the problem was...what were the damages...unless they were in excess of 15 or 20 thousand dollars, it was a waste of time... The bottom line is that I was accurate, from the start, the IRS failed to obey those rules established by Congress...call it me being right, whatever...I did not, however WIN...its was only keeping my head above water...
The Stuff I Am Learning (with this experience considered)
Assertiveness is critical to survival. Its not necessary to argue with anyone, it is necessary to be assertive with everyone. If required, that is, if you have been assertive, said "this is how I feel" or "this is my opinion" and you perceive you are not being listened to, understood, validated....say it again, say it again, say it again, as if you are a record player, if you need to change a few words, fine, just say your point over and over again...compromising at this point means certain failure... In other words a conversation means communication between two or more parties, if you have done your homework, communicated your idea properly, simply and directly to another party, well the ball is in their hands...anything that diverts from them having the ball means "the record player"...they get the record player until the conversation ends...that is they walk away, they give up, or they do the "right thing" and act or behave like an adult...
Have a good one..
michael chudzinski
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mchud11
Thanks Twinky. TWI was really to me, a very intense experience. I went into TWI with virtually no set of skills, job wise, world wise, and so on. I did feel as though I was dealing with an organization that was honest, what happened during those years was more like experiencing a "do it yourself ministry" by which I mean that TWI turned out to be a ministry that really had nothing physical, they did have a clue about things spiritual, after all, I did learn how to speak in tongues, yet the physical side, that is getting something accomplished was a constant stuggle, and for me, dire poverty.
I spent a great deal of alone time after the real separation with the ministry. If I had to do those separation years over again, I think I would have gotten into some counseling, yet I have no regrets about not getting counselling, due to the fact that over the years I have read so many, many books on cults, abuse, and on and on, and it still doesn't appear to me that any counselling during that time would have been "the answer" due to the lack of availability of competent counselors, per se. In other words, it is my belief that the TWI experience was so unusual, that the only real counselors are other individuals who have successfully moved on from TWI.
If I was telling someone who just left TWI what would be the first best book to read, it would be Victor Frankls book "Mans Search For Meaning", which is the account of survival in and out of a Nazi concentration camp. It is an excellent example of man's capability to come back from isolation, abuse, all of the extremes..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Michael, stick around, you will find much to help you here. We have mostly all been through it; some here have people they care about involved with TWI but they themselves are not.
Enjoy life and keep learning.
I'm sending you a PM so's not to derail this thread.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
I totally get you on this, michael. it's really hard for many professionals to relate to what living in a very controlling cult is like, and hence unless they have the training, they are at a loss as to how to help and can actually give bad advice that does more harm than good. I got lucky when I went looking for the people who helped me and my kids the most, because I looked for people with training and experience in domestic abuse. I couldn't even talk about the cult experience for a long time, but it was so intertwined with the domestic abuse that eventually I had to start talking about it. I got a lot of healing in the process, but I really needed GS and to know there were other people going through or who had gone through the same things.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
i agree. this one rises to the top for me too
...Frankl's story certainly seems to reveal some deeper roots of our various pre-twi, twi and post-twi conditions and experiences and whatnot
or whatever one wants to name such a process
...maybe it can be named a "trans-twi experience"
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
Share on other sites
cman
good idea,
every doctrine was/is a wall
a wall of imprisonment
caged us, frightened us
killing the spirit of freedom
if those doctrines could be seen from outside the walls
they would most certainly look different
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mchud11
Excellent. Raw excellence. I went a different way, but the end result appears to be the same. With me, I couldn't shut up, so that did not get me too far, so I wrote a book, even travelled to England to publish it. It did not get published and that was a good thing. Until some 12 years ago, I had no idea of what alcoholism was about, and I spent some time with an alcoholic, now I am not saying I know what being an alcoholic is about, having never been one...but that was the first time that I got acquainted with the phrase "digging deep". Again, I am not meaning to be an expert or skilled in "digging deep", merely that it is something important, and definitely a part of recovery with regard to TWI, in my opinion...thanks...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
http://gdbook.blogspot.com/2007/09/mans-se...or-meaning.html
http://www.spacejock.com/yBook.html
http://www.download.com/WinRAR/3000-2250_4-10007677.html
Edited by cmanLink to comment
Share on other sites
mchud11
Thanks, Cman, great job. I will be re-reading this by afternoon. Isn't the Internet just the best library ever? Yes, yes it is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.