VPW and the Snowstorm - What do you believe?

[Bolshevik]

Actually, TWI counts its beginning from the first broadcast of Vesper Chimes, not from the time God allegedly spoke to him. Small point, but worth mentioning for accuracy's sake.

an important tidbit indeed!!!

does this mean Dr. Juedes and Mr. Morton are unreliable?

Source 19!! I need source 19!!!

[Bolshevik]

not a little difficulty with what I believe is Juedes' website.

Dr. Juedes, I need source 19 por favor.

[Bolshevik]

apparently, I need to update my browser, a more ADVANCED browser . . .

[George Aar]

The heart's cry of the common man is for help. Man's help truly has to come from the Lord. We must learn to go to God's Word, the fountainhead of all truth, for that help. WM 07-08/85

Wow! Three unsubstantiated (and need I say "dubious"?) assumptions in just one paragraph!

Hat trick!

[Bolshevik]

Wow! Three unsubstantiated (and need I say "dubious"?) assumptions in just one paragraph!

Hat trick!

ah, but can you get me source 19?

[socks]

"In fact, this was the one last point I was going to make. It looks to me that God had it all injected into the public domain in a sense. TWI technically owns the copyright, but they can't quite enforce it now that the cat is out of the bag. I think God had Dr assemble previous texts just for this reason, to force TWI to back off when it comes to getting in anyone's face over fair use and/or more than fair use of the PFAL writings. I've heard not one word of them going after the grads who digitized the books onto a CD and mass distributed them years ago. I know they know about it because I talked to a high ranking staff member about it some 5 years ago. God in His foreknowledge got those books mass printed, distributed around the world, and then He freed them from the monsters He knew TWI would become."

Actually, there's a cleaner reason, more grounded in the truth. Most if not all of the early copies of the PFAL class materials came out of the Way of Europe "post POP". Geer had gotten full rights to republish and print Way materials prior to his POP release- he refers to this in "POP" and gives his reasons. The W of E supplied many people with materials in the latter 80's, I know of some myself.

People were able to buy books and other stuff from the bookstore in Europe. There were some large inventories in the U.S. as a result. Those materials were completely legal to own in the U.S. and use or resell. It has nothing to do with the Way having any fear over the content of PFAL being exposed to some latter day copyright examination of the content (in fact I doubt that any true blue Wayfer could even see the possibility that there might be a problem like that - why would the if God authored it, inspired it to be written, etc).... they simply don't have control over any of the stuff that was bought or given out that way, at that time.

Reproduction on a macro level, local and unadvertised, would be inevitable and untrackable, particularly by those who aspire to some "higher level" of spiritual honesty and purity than a simple "if it ain't yours don't take it" view. Religious fanaticism will develop all manner of excuses for behavior that would, under any other circumstance, be consdered wrong if not outright illegal. And if it's for your own personal use and constitutes a single copy, that's going to be hard to track and stop legally and in fact it might be done from a purely honest reasoning at that level.

That's not to say that they didn't sell them outright either - they have continued to sell the books to various people around the country who are no longer active particpants in the Way. Business is business, as the saying goes. Plus, others scarfed up copies and originals of all sorts of things upon leaving the Way Nash headquarters, and squirreled them away for their own use and the use of others. The Way hasn't always shut those instances down.

It would be beyond their means to sort through all of the possibilites, but only a hen in a hornet's nest would be so distracted to think that if they knew and were able to easily prevent unauthorized use of their materials, they wouldn't do so.

[Ham]

and squirreled them away for their own use and the use of others

not this squirrel..

[Bolshevik]

What does this have to do with a snowstorm? How did the hen get in the hornets nest? Is that where source 19 is?

not this squirrel..

I did see another squirrel nearby . . .you've probably met already

[socks]

It has nothing to do with it. If it's bugging you, I'll stop.

I have no idea whether he saw a snowstorm. He said he did. I wasn't there. If I gave a ratz asz I'd say more about it.

[Bolshevik]

It has nothing to do with it. If it's bugging you, I'll stop.

I have no idea whether he saw a snowstorm. He said he did. I wasn't there. If I gave a ratz asz I'd say more about it.

chill dude. just need source 19, if you run into juedes, maybe ask for me?

[waysider]

"Yes, Your Honor, I took the horse. But, after all, since God put him here originally, I figured he must be Public Equine.

Anyways, it seemed cruel to me that someone had tied him the gas pumps. (what with there being a blinding snow cone machine inside the fillin' station and all that.) So I said, 'Lord. I need a sign. Doesn't have to be neon or nuthin fancy. But ifffen it's Ok fer me to take this here horse, let him whinny as I cinch up my saddle'. And whinny he did. So you see, Your Honor, it must have been predestined to be since before the foundations of horse shoes. I named him Frosty in honor of the circumstance under which we first got aquainted that cold, cold August day."

Hi Yo, Silver Iodide, Away!

[potato]

classic!

[socks]

Speaking of snowstorms - you chill. I won't be running into juedes. And get enough for everyone while you're at it.

[Bolshevik]

ah shucks :)

[seaspray]

Not long ago I paid a visit to Payne, Ohio. It was a Saturday morning in late July or early August and I ate breakfast at a little joint that did double duty. By day it was a short order hash house and it would transition to gin mill by the time happy hour rolled around. I took my chow at the bar which was kind of neat in and of it's self. After I paid the check and tipped the waitress handsomely, I walked south a couple blocks and found myself on the the sidewalk in front of the dentist's office. Looking west I saw the gas station Dr told us about. The pumps were long gone. The building was boarded up and vacant. It is, as Dr. Wierwille said, less than thirty paces from the office to where the pumps were once located. To that I can attest.

Oh, and by the way, 'snowstorm' is a misnomer. It would more accurately be described as a squall; a short, isolated snow squall. Little noted nor long remembered by anyone except Dr. Wierwille himself and we who believe in his ministry. It's not Dr. Wierwille's life that hangs in the balance. It is ours.

You are the one to now decide

Whether to believe Him or toss Him aside.

You are the one to make up your minds

Whether to accept Him or linger behind.

Take Him or leave Him, which will you do,

Believing is assurance of no failure for you.

Freedom From Bondage

Victor Paul Wierwille

[Bolshevik]

even if we had source 19 it would be of eight miles northwest from said location, I believe weather in ohio moves from the southwest to the northeast. It probably doesn't prove much.

Dream away wayfers!!!

[waysider]

Oh, and by the way, 'snowstorm' is a misnomer. It would more accurately be described as a squall; a short, isolated snow squall. Little noted nor long remembered by anyone except Dr. Wierwille himself and we who believe in his ministry.

So then a "short, isolated snow squall" could be considered a phenomenon of Biblical proportions?

This snowdrift gets deeper all the time.

[Mike]

So then a "short, isolated snow squall" could be considered a phenomenon of Biblical proportions?

This snowdrift gets deeper all the time.

No, I think the audible voice and what was said was what Dr was referring to there.

But I do think your ability to get or take things like this dead wrong is a phenomenon of Biblical proportions.

[Mike]

even if we had source 19 it would be of eight miles northwest from said location, I believe weather in ohio moves from the southwest to the northeast. It probably doesn't prove much.

Dream away wayfers!!!

I think your the one dreaming, or daydreaming.

It looks to me that you are trying to re-invent a wheel that went flat several times here.

I suggest you look at the earlier portions of this thread for a quote I posted by Lifted Up on his witnessing two rogue, small, isolated, short-lived, yet massively thick snow storms (or squalls), one in Ohio near HQ and one in Pennsylvania.

If you can't find it, I'll re-paste it here.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Mike

[Bolshevik]

I think your the one dreaming, or daydreaming.

It looks to me that you are trying to re-invent a wheel that went flat several times here.

I suggest you look at the earlier portions of this thread for a quote I posted by Lifted Up on his witnessing two rogue, small, isolated, short-lived, yet massively thick snow storms (or squalls), one in Ohio near HQ and one in Pennsylvania.

If you can't find it, I'll re-paste it here.

my point was that there's no proof that it did or DIDN'T happen.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Bolshevik

[waysider]

No, I think the audible voice and what was said was what Dr was referring to there.

But I do think your ability to get or take things like this dead wrong is a phenomenon of Biblical proportions.

I thought the question was "Do you believe the snowstorm was real?"

Now you're saying it's the audible voice that's in question?

Maybe you could clarify.

[Bolshevik]

. . .

I suggest you look at the earlier portions of this thread for a quote I posted by Lifted Up on his witnessing two rogue, small, isolated, short-lived, yet massively thick snow storms (or squalls), one in Ohio near HQ and one in Pennsylvania.

If you can't find it, I'll re-paste it here.

please do, He saw the rogue snowstorms, two of them, in the time period of September-October of 1942? Hundreds of miles apart?

[Mike]

I may have made a mistake.

The post I referred to may not be on this thread, but on the one that spawned this thread. That earlier thread is titled “Was VPW an Advanced Class Grad” and can be found here http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...t=0&start=0

In Post #12 of that thread I reminded readers that weather reports would not very well catch a small rogue snow storm, especially in days of scant communication technology compared to today's. Such storms can be only a few blocks in size, and last only a few minutes, and then melt in a few minutes and never be reported.

On that spawning thread I posted a copy of a very old post that Lifted Up placed here. Here it is again, since it fits so much into this thread’s topic.

posted Jan 1 2003

Post #159

Lifted Up

Rafael wrote...

"It didn't snow. The weather reports from that day in that region prove it did not snow that day."

What weather reports? I have been staying out of this for some reasons, but I can't help being curious about that statement.

Just from a weather reporting point of view, a snow shower such as that in question would be unlikely to show up (or proof that it didn't happen) in any old weather reports, unless the point in question is precisely at an observing and reporting point for weather data. General conditions...the high and low temperature for that given day and whether or not there was precipitation...at even a very a nearby point...just will not tell you either way.

I experienced a very brief and local but intense snow shower one day back in 1979 when I was running near HQ. One minute it was not snowing, the next minute the snow was almost blinding, and fell hard enough to whiten the ground; five minutes later it was gone. Just a couple miles away, it evidently did not snow at all. I have actually seen that kind of thing a number of times; most noteably in the mountains of central PA, but here it was happening in fairly flat country.

The same idea of extreme local weather variations happens in warm weather. I sometimes have a fun time explaining to insurance people, or their clients, that I cannot tell them for sure that there was or was not a storm causing damaging winds at their precise location, because we had no reports either way at the particular time and date they are interested in. (It is easy to be out in the boonies around where I live and work). Sometimes of course I can tell them for sure there was nothing around...of course these calls are not for weather from sixty years ago, either.

Of course, if there were evidence that the temperature was close to, say eighty degrees at the time in question, then the occurrence of a snow shower at that time might be deemed implausible...just like the creation of a dry area across the red Sea by a strong east wind.

[Bolshevik]

so we agree there's no proof either way.

unless of course I'm still daydreaming. . .

[potato]

was vpw in the boonies, or in town?

strange weather events in a town tend to get a mention in the paper, since there are more people to witness it in town. outside of town, maybe no one will observe it, or if they do, they don't call the papers.

and, what time of year was Lifted Up's experience with a snow storm? random snowfall is much more likely in some parts of the year, and very unlikely in the middle of Ohio's summer.

for instance, snow is falling thickly outside my house. at my husband's work, it's hardly coming down at all. just a couple of miles away. but it's January, so snow is not impossible here.