VPW and the Snowstorm - What do you believe?
VPW and the Snowstorm - What do you believe?
52 members have voted
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1. VPW and the Snowstorm - What do you believe?
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God miracled a snowstorm for VPW1
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God miracled a snowstorm in VPW's head1
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VPW hallucinated a snowstorm3
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VPW saw a freak hailstorm and interpreted it as a miracle2
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VPW made the whole thing up37
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None of the above8
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potato
4 or 5 what? shots of whiskey, hits off the pipe, what?
Bolshevik
wow, I would have guessed more.
potato
it's reruns of seaspray, circa 2003.
Raf
You're still in?
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Raf
[ctrl]f "jesus"
no matches found
[ctrl]f "christ"
no matches found
All I need to know.
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potato
sure sounds like a kool-aid drinking innie, dialed in to the "present truth"... or do you guys still teach that, seaspray? has twi gone back to the revelation of vpw as its foundation? I'm just wondering. things were pretty watered-down when I left.
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Mike
Raf,
Gee, maybe you need glasses, or a more expanded vocabulary. I see Christ all through this post. Maybe if you were better instructed you'd be able to see better.
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potato
I don't see christ either, I see twi propaganda.
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Raf
Nice try, Mike.
That you could hightlight "The Way" and ignore "Ministry" and claim "The Way" there is a reference to Christ would be astonishing to me... if it were coming from anyone else.
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JeffSjo
Dear Seaspray,
I don't know for sure if you believe what Mike believes in all respects. For instance, Mike believes that the greatest secret in the world today is that PFAL is the revealed Word and Will of God.
Speaking for myself, I don't think your claims hold water when held up to the years of testimonies and doctrinal discussions that I've read of while here at the Greasespot. But feel free to explore these things yourself.
I really do hope that you manage to take Wierwille's own words into account when you take your stand, because the Lord will judge him according to his words, and I'd hate to see you go down with that ship. The many TWI victims that share here don't seem to hold your rosy picture of what's available in TWI, and neither do I.
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Raf
Jeff put it well, as usual.
It's true, seaspray, but once you come to that realization, your recovery can begin.
The belief system you cling to was, to a large extent, concocted by a predator of God's people for the purpose of satisfying his lust for money, sex and power. Oh, his legacy includes many fond memories for you, and I won't begrudge you that. I had some good memories too. But I'd trade those good memories in a heartbeat if it would take away the pain and anguish suffered at Wierwille's hands by people whose only crime was a desire to get to know God better.
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Mike
It wasn't a try on my part, nor on seaspray's. I think you tried to close your eyes to it. Jesus Christ is the central figure in all the teaching we received. You just wanted to see ONE SPECIFIC label. You're too tied to that one label. It's not even Hebrew, it's Greek. Why didn't you ctrl F his Hebrew label?
And another thing, I think you're confusing The Way International with The Way Ministry.
The ministry was initially named after Jesus Christ, who is THE Way and had the legal title The Way Ministry, signifying the work or ministering of Jesus Christ. It was from this organized effort that I came to call him, Jesus of Nazareth, my Lord. Around 1972 the legal title was changed to TWI.
This notion of label quota and name counting goes back years. Whenever I see Jesus quotas brought up I suspect there's a dirth of even wrong argumentation. It's pathetic. I should dig up the previous Jesus quota accusations I've seen. Actually, there was one just last week, but I let it slide.
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waysider
Mike
I used to feel sorry for you in a strange kind of way.
A seemingly misguided soul pitching a product that is desperately flawed.
Still, it's your choice to believe what you want and I can respect that.
Or so I thought.
But then I had a revelation of my own ( the dictionary-definition kind, not the snowstorm variety.)
It was while I observed how you posted on the CF&S thread.
I saw how you came out of the comfort zone of PFAL and spun your twisted logic to try to defend a class that couldn't possibly have been God-Breathed and really had nothing to do with your pro-PFAL arguments.
It hasn't really been about PFAL at all, has it?
That's just a smokescreen to mask what really amounts to a massive effort to exonerate Wierwille.
Were you part of his "inner circle"?
Or, did you, perhaps, unsuccessfully aspire to be part of his "inner circle"?
How long have you known about his misdeeds?
Twenty years, thirty years?
Before there was a Waydale or GSC?
Do you think if you can exonerate him you can experience that exoneration vicariously?
He's not worth defending.
His ministry and snowstorm were a hoax
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Raf
Mike,
Again, nice try. We've been through this before. Let's not bother, k?
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Mike
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sirguessalot
kinduva bummer how often this happens...plz permit me a moment to whine...
i feel that i've composed a few posts that contribute to the topic of this thread, perhaps even worthy of stimulating reasoned dialogue and debate that is relevant to our various trans-twi experiences.
yet, it seems the usual circular easier paths of argumentation are valued way more here
anyone else notice this?
anyone wonder why?
i do
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waysider
Probably has something to do with all the commercial interruptions.
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Mike
Todd,
I think, and this is respectfully put, as a friend, it's because you're too poetic and flowery the way you psot and too intellectual in what you post.
I find it a lot of work reading them, and then very challenging to match both your style and the heady things you bring up. If you downgraded them to street style I could handle them better. That's just my opinion.
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Ham
I've wondered.. not this thread only but others as well.
Some people just happen to be stuck traversing a rather large cloverleaf on the highway of life.. afraid to go forward (beyond "doc" vic "praise be his name"'s "research").. and terrified to get off the highway..
but who am I to say it's "wrong".. maybe it's better off than being on zoloft or something..
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sirguessalot
thanks for the reply, Mike
same thing youve said to me before
honestly, a confession...i cant bring myself to believe on the reason you've given
for what its worth...i just went back and reread through the half dozen posts ive added to this thread...and all are 99% clear plain street level english...i could only find 1 or 2 less-than-mainstream words...and where i do use some metaphor, i tend to qualify it as such
as always...i welcome you (or anyone) to specifically point out (by quoting) something that is too poetic, too flowery, or too intellectual for you
i think i'm as capable of clarifying as anyone else
...or maybe im being too clear?
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Mike
Ok, I'll try reading with a fresh attitude.
I could be wrong and just stuck in an old mode.
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sirguessalot
yeah...i get this
...and yeah...it could be A LOT worse...
but i also wonder why some seem to prefer to feed and argue and debate perspectives they consider most outlandish and perhaps easiest to debunk...
apologies for being
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Bolshevik
Air, water, food and shelter. These are the reasons that you believe Wierwille's words are true?
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Mike
Have you ever heard of figurative speech? If not, look at my response to Raf's criticism of the same seaspray post.
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sirguessalot
thanks Mike
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Raf
Good one, Mike.
Interesting. See how easy it is to talk about Jesus Christ when you focus on the Bible rather than PFAL?
I'm just saying.
(and yes, I'm just kidding).
Honestly, I think there's a difference between being a sinner, which everyone is, and being sinister. Of necessity, God works with sinners (not a lot of options on that front). But to expect me to believe Wierwille is what you claim him to be, God would have to work not with a sinner, but with the sinister; not with a man who occasionally succumbed to evil, but with a man who occasionally rose above it; not with a man who failed to be what he knew to be, but a man who knew what he was and reveled in it.
You compare Wierwille to Saul the apostle, I to Saul the king. You compare Wierwille to the penitent sinner David, I to the unpenitent and ultimately disgraced Solomon. And that's being gracious, for it assumes that at some point there truly was a desire to serve God. Unfortunately, Wierwille ended up serving man, not in any noble sense, but he served man up to the altar of his own greed, his own lusts.
Do his misdeeds mark his entire life? No. Of course not. Most of the people he met, he did not hurt. Most of the people who heard him preach were inspired by it, I dare say. And bravo for that.
But he didn't need to prey upon more than a handful of God's people to earn the mark of predator. He didn't have to manipulate everyone he met to be a manipulator. As I've mentioned over and over: Jeffrey Dahmer only ate a miniscule fraction of the people he met over his lifetime. A teensy weensy... almost immeasurable percentage. Defend what you want of the cult leader Victor Paul Wierwille. He preyed upon God's people, in Christ's name. It wasn't merely sin. It was a calculated lifestyle of manipulation of Scripture and people for his own lustful ends.
Sad, yes. Tragic? Depends on his motives to begin with. A legacy? Maybe. He'll have the legacy of L. Ron Hubbard, Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy... when the final history of Victor Paul Wierwille is written, he will take his place among the second or third tier of those who traded in money and lives in Christ's name. He will be, perhaps, a footnote at best (ironic, considering his own failure to use such inconveniences).
And Christianity will move on.
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Bolshevik
I have no idea what you mean.
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