VPW and the Snowstorm - What do you believe?

[WordWolf]

Was the snowstorm/gas pumps story in PFAL? I seem to remember it first being made known in the book, The Way: Living In Love, not in the class. I'd be interested in finding out if there's any record of the story being told before TW:LIL was published (1972 or so?).

The book was published about 1972. It took place at the beginning of the 1970s.

Page 178 has vpw claiming "the 1942 promise."

Page 180 has vpw claiming the miraculous snowstorm.

"I was praying. And I told Father outright that He could have the whole thing, unless

there were real genuine answers that I wouldn't ever have to back up on.

And that's when He spoke to me audibly, just like I'm talking to you now. He said He

would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would

teach it to others.

Well, I nearly flew off my chair. I couldn't believe that God would talk to me."

""Well, on the day God spoke to me, I couldn't believe it. But then I

came to the point by the next day where I said to myself-maybe it's true. So the next

day I talked to God again. I said, 'Lord, if it's really true what you said to me

yesterday, if that was really you talking to me, you've got to give me a sign so that

I can really know, so that I can believe.'

The sky was crystal blue and clear. Not a cloud in sight. It was a beautiful early

autumn day. I said 'If that was really you, and you meant what you said, give me a

sign. Let me see it snow.' My eyes were tightly shut as I prayed. And then I

opened them.

The sky was so white and thick with snow, I couldn't see the tanks at the filling

station on the corner not 75 feet away." Doctor relates this phenomenon in a joyous

voice. "

The snow reference wasn't in any pfal class I took, which was the videotaped one.

In the taped class, he said he'd dedicated his life toward God's Word,

but nothing about such a promise. It would have been too jarring

to me- I NEVER felt comfortable about this claim of vpw's.

I felt that Scripture made it clear that such information, if God tells

it to you, is specifically FOR YOU and not for PUBLIC CONSUMPTION.

In her own book, Mrs W said the first time he told ANYONE was when he

told the early corps. That means that the book was written about the

same time vpw BEGAN telling this story. I find her comments interesting

for 2 reasons:

1) It supposedly happened in 1942. He didn't tell HIS OWN WIFE until

over 20 years later.

2) Her own recounting of the snow quotes him as saying the sky

WENT BLACK with snow, which is the opposite of what it said in

TW:LiL.

=====================

Here's what I said on this very subject:

Could God make it snow for any of us?

I believe all the Christians here will say "yes".

(I'm supposing that you mean the "snow on the pumps".

The Tulsa snow job was confirmed to be a untruth in great detail.)

There's several sub-issues here. Was this supposedly REAL snow, or a VISION of snow?

All indications SEEM to be that it's supposed to be REAL snow.

If it WAS, then it arrived in exactly ONE spot, with some of it instantly on the

ground, and some of it heavy in the air. It then VANISHED.

Could God do that? Well, yes. Whether you think God would go thru all that trouble

when a VISION would work as well is a matter of opinion.

If it was a VISION, then this goes back to the original question-

which it would anyway. The supposed snow was to confirm that God would teach

vpw God's Word like it had not been known since the 1st century, if vpw would teach

it to others.

The teachings and practices vpw taught and instituted bear NO resemblance to the

1st century church.

They decentralized authority-he concentrated it in one person-himself.

They spread out the money where there was need-vpw concentrated it at hq, where it

STAYED.

Their leaders led austere lives, Paul working a secular job at one point.

vpw piled up luxuries for himself of nearly every kind.

Their emphasis was on spiritual basics. vpw emphasized intellectual study.

They had signs, miracles and wonders as day-to-day events. vpw-well, I suppose he

saw a FEW here and there.

Furthermore,

"The Word like it hadn't been known since the 1st century" is a FICTION. In the 1st

century, they had the Old Testament (the Torah), and a few of the letters where they

could be found. It sounds like such a neat slogan, though.....

Finally, although vpw taught others, EVERYTHING he taught (95% at the bare minimum)

can be traced DIRECTLY to the work of ANOTHER Christian which was ALREADY in effect

at the time. pfal was an cut-and-paste of the work (primarily) BG Leonard-

whose class vpw copied over word-for-word originally, and thus it was known to all

students of BG Leonard before vpw came around-

(secondarily) EW Bullinger-whose books had been around for perhaps half-a-century

before vpw heard of him, thus it was known to all his readers-

(tertially) JE Stiles-whose work and book on the holy spirit were ALSO in effect

long before, and whose book "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" was copied over almost

word-for-word into the 1st edition of the White Book.

Thus, the only things that had not "been known" before vpw ripped off the works of

others was a handful of names-"manifestation","administration"-if those weren't a

direct ripoff of someone else as well. Thus, the entire 1942 promise completely

failed to come to pass. vpw taught others, but at no point did he teach them

"God's Word as it has not been known since the 1st century" (for all the reasons I

just gave.) Since God does not fail His promises, the logical conclusion is that this

was NOT a promise of God. According to Scripture, if a man claims to speak in the

name of the LORD and what he says does NOT come to pass, then he is a FALSE PROPHET.

The only question then remaining is:

Did vpw invent this 1942 promise?

or did vpw receive a vision from a source other than the True God?

The possibility of him actually receiving this as revelation from God, as you see,

is excluded based on its phrasing and its results.

Given that BG Leonard wrote something similar, vpw read his book, and, some years

later began making this promise, it is most likely that vpw intentionally made it up

based on BG Leonard's writings.

Edited January 5, 2009 by WordWolf

[skyrider]

Finally, although vpw taught others, EVERYTHING he taught (95% at the bare minimum)

can be traced DIRECTLY to the work of ANOTHER Christian which was ALREADY in effect

at the time. pfal was an cut-and-paste of the work (primarily) BG Leonard-

whose class vpw copied over word-for-word originally, and thus it was known to all

students of BG Leonard before vpw came around-

(secondarily) EW Bullinger-whose books had been around for perhaps half-a-century

before vpw heard of him, thus it was known to all his readers-

(tertially) JE Stiles-whose work and book on the holy spirit were ALSO in effect

long before, and whose book "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" was copied over almost

word-for-word into the 1st edition of the White Book.

Thus, the only things that had not "been known" before vpw ripped off the works of

others was a handful of names-"manifestation","administration"-if those weren't a

direct ripoff of someone else as well. Thus, the entire 1942 promise completely

failed to come to pass. vpw taught others, but at no point did he teach them

"God's Word as it has not been known since the 1st century" (for all the reasons I

just gave.) Since God does not fail His promises, the logical conclusion is that this

was NOT a promise of God. According to Scripture, if a man claims to speak in the

name of the LORD and what he says does NOT come to pass, then he is a FALSE PROPHET.

The only question then remaining is:

Did vpw invent this 1942 promise?

or did vpw receive a vision from a source other than the True God?

The possibility of him actually receiving this as revelation from God, as you see,

is excluded based on its phrasing and its results.

Given that BG Leonard wrote something similar, vpw read his book, and, some years

later began making this promise, it is most likely that vpw intentionally made it up

based on BG Leonard's writings.

I agree with WW.......another cut-and-paste of wierwille in attempting to catapult his importance.

After all, wierwille copied Fuller (iirc) on starting a radio broadcast. Wierwille copied others on his foreign mission trip to India. Wierwille blatantly copied the foundational class of Leonard. And, Leonard wrote of a similar incident........easy for wierwille to cut-and-paste ANOTHER "original."

The snowstorm story........a fabricated story

Edited January 5, 2009 by skyrider

[newlife]

WHO CARES??

[Ham]

umm, who cares about WHAT?

I dunno.. if the old mogster was merely delusional and just harmless, maybe nobody would..

The delusion lives on..

apparently these kids "don't care".. give them twenty or so years though..

grown adults, in their fifties and sixties, perpetuating this nonsense, for the next generation, when they REALLY are old enough and (assuming) mature enough to sort it out..

a person is better off believing in Santa Claus..

[Oakspear]

WHO CARES??

Obviously those who are discussing it. Apparently not you.

You seem to care enough to read and comment though.

[Mike]

Hi WW,

Just thought I'd help a little since I'm home sick.

The book was published about 1972. It took place at the beginning of the 1970s.

Page 178 has vpw claiming "the 1942 promise."

Page 180 has vpw claiming the miraculous snowstorm.

This is accurate, along with what followed.

...

The snow reference wasn't in any pfal class I took, which was the videotaped one.

In the taped class, he said he'd dedicated his life toward God's Word,

but nothing about such a promise. ...

The audio cassette tape class was word-for-word IDENTICAL to the sound track of the film/video class.

What I posted above in Post #24 of this thread was all I could ever find in the class transcript of the 1942 promise, and there's no snow. The class (audio tape, film, and video) was made in late 1967.

In her own book, Mrs W said the first time he told ANYONE was when he

told the early corps. That means that the book was written about the

same time vpw BEGAN telling this story. I find her comments interesting

for 2 reasons...

Something is very wrong here. Let's get down to the facts.

I have a 1965 tape of Dr telling the story. Maybe Mrs. Wierwille was not in attendance or never heard the tape. A transcript of the tape was posted here 6 years ago years ago, but it was mistakenly labeled as a 1972 tape. How odd, the way factual errors propagate with respect to these matters!

Golfie posted the transcript of that tape here: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=1871

There's a ton of detail there for those who care to do all the reading. I wonder why no one remembers this thread? Probably few people bothered to read the transcript in it's entirety.

I corrected the erroneous date in my Post #23 on that thread. Golfie got the transcript either from me or from someone I gave it to because it contains an error I made in the typing of it.

The tape was done on October 17, 1965 and became SNS Tape #214 and titled "Selling Plurality - Acts 4:34."

The transcript posted is only a small portion, like a large parenthesis, to the teaching, which was on abundant sharing. In the 1980's, this parenthetical portion of the teaching was cut out and mass produced on a cassette tape, and the title of this tape was changed from the original SNS title to "Light Began to Dawn." I don't know when this title change happened.

[potato]

<snip>

Something is very wrong here. Let's get down to the facts.

I have a 1965 tape of Dr telling the story. Maybe Mrs. Wierwille was not in attendance or never heard the tape. A transcript of the tape was posted here 6 years ago years ago, but it was mistakenly labeled as a 1972 tape. How odd, the way factual errors propagate with respect to these matters!

</snip>

Mrs. Wierwille didn't write that book on her own, so any omission or inaccuracy was officially approved by TWI. I have a hard time believing that no one had access to the correct information or that everyone in the "ministry" simply forgot about the 1965 teaching. I know a lot of them were dead by the time Mrs. W published, but could there seriously be a way that that could just accidentally just slip by? or is it possible that there was an agenda being served?

Edited January 5, 2009 by potato

[frank123lol]

Not since the apostle Paul,has there been a revelation as to what vic received?

From the 65 tape.What an ego!To receive revelation you first must become meek?

Another,something inside me said ask the father,to make it snow.hmm...

The whole thing was about him,to him the way ministry was him,If you disagree,

you are wrong and he is right.after all god said he would teach him.

Since when do you make god do anything?Welcome to vics world.

[waysider]

So then, if we are to believe the 1965 date, that means that for 23 years, VEEPEE never mentioned it to his own wife. An incident that was supposedly of an unprecedented magnitude. Then, when he decided to reveal it, he chose a public audience to do so. And, if the snowstorm was only for his own benefit, he would have betrayed his trust in revealing it at all. I don't buy it.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

So then, if we are to believe the 1965 date, that means that for 23 years, VEEPEE never mentioned it to his own wife. An incident that was supposedly of an unprecedented magnitude. Then, when he decided to reveal it, he chose a public audience to do so. And, if the snowstorm was only for his own benefit, he would have betrayed his trust in revealing it at all. I don't buy it.

...I don't buy it either...not many do...but there are some who do buy it. For them, it's like Dorothy clicking her heels three times in the magic slippers...and she's finally home...or so she thinks. Actually, she has been carried off by the flying monkeys into the evil forest. Jim Doop told me shortly before he passed away that the first thing Wierwille asked when he got to California was ..."take me to a sex orgy"...

This plagiarizing, drunken sexual predator...God spoke to him? ...and some believe that?...

Wierwille was a con man...plain and simple.

[OperaBuff]

The snow job story wasn't in PFAL? Really? Maybe I was hallucinating from the believer coffee, but I sure remember it.

Does anyone have a copy of the PFAL class on video or tape?

[leafytwiglet]

The snow job story wasn't in PFAL? Really? Maybe I was hallucinating from the believer coffee, but I sure remember it.

Does anyone have a copy of the PFAL class on video or tape?

LOL well At least I am not alone in remembering it from the class.

Weirdly I hear it in VPW's voice too...

Ah the tricks the mind plays on us. :blink:

Edited January 5, 2009 by leafytwiglet

[Raf]

Isn't it a distraction, whether he told it in the PFAL class or not? I mean, bottom line is, he told it, right? WHEN he told it is a quibble. THAT he told it and WHY he told it - to add validity to the uniqueness of his ministry - is what matters, no?

[RumRunner]

And the Lord spake unto his faithful servant GrouchoMarxJR saying, “I did make it snow but not to teach the Dark One the Word as it as not been known since the first century.”

“I caused the snow upon the land so that you, faithful Groucho, could leave my message written in the snow with the holy yellow ink of God.”

“Now, therefore, go forth and spread my message in all of the snow that you see, and the snow shall be yours and that of the faithful. For the yellow ink of God is not to be dealt with lightly but only with the greatest of reverence.”

"See how I have cursed the children of Eve by not allowing them to write my word in the snow?"

"Now my faithful servant the one thing you must do in my service is easily entreated."

"Don’t eat the yellow snow."

Edited January 6, 2009 by RumRunner

[leafytwiglet]

And the Lord spake unto his faithful servant Groucho saying, “I did make it snow but not to teach the Dark One the Word has it has not been known since the first century.”

“I caused the snow upon the land so that you, faithful Groucho, could leave my message written in the snow in the holy yellow ink of God.”

“Now, therefore, go forth and spread my message in all of the snow that you see, and the snow shall be yours and that of the faithful. For the yellow ink of God is not to be dealt with lightly but only with the greatest of reverence.”

See how I have cursed the children of Eve by not allowing them to write my word in the snow?

Now my faithful servant the one thing you must do in my service is easily entreated.

Don’t eat the yellow snow.

Also be sure you are not out in public writing in the snowwith the yellow ink of God! especially in front of little kids old ladies and cops. :)

[potato]

LOL well At least I am not alone in remembering it from the class.

Weirdly I hear it in VPW's voice too...

Ah the tricks the mind plays on us. :blink:

yeah, exactly. I seem to remember it, too. eventually I'll dig out all my books and old syllabi and be able to look things like this up.

could it be in the intro to one of the class books? is the cassette class identical to the film (later video) class? did vpw maybe mention it during another class that was still making the rounds in the late 80's/90's?

[Mike]

could it be in the intro to one of the class books? No.

is the cassette class identical to the film (later video) class? Yes.

did vpw maybe mention it during another class that was still making the rounds in the late 80's/90's? No.

There is one magazine article where he very briefly mentions it. I forget which one.

All the other memories of this story are blurred TVTs (Twi Verbal Traditions) that could have been spoken by anyone, but mistakenly remembered as VPW being the speaker. It's conceivable that VPW spoke it out on some other occasion, but I never heard him do it, nor heard OF him doing it.

It's been my observation and recollection that after it was published in the '72 book by Elena Whiteside he hardly ever got into it or anything like it again. He moved on to other things after that book.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Mike

[leafytwiglet]

Spoke about it at ROA???

Spoke of it on one of those teaching tapes you know the ones...

We listened to them on the WOW field ...

[potato]

has anyone transcribed the video class?

[leafytwiglet]

Potato do you hear it in your head in VPW's voice too.

?

Edited January 6, 2009 by leafytwiglet

[RumRunner]

Potato do you hear it in your head in VPW's voice too.

?

I hear it in my head when the voices talk through the fillings in my teeth - smirk

[leafytwiglet]

I hear it in my head when the voices talk through the fillings in my teeth - smirk

LOL I knew somone would make a joke

Edited January 6, 2009 by leafytwiglet

[potato]

Potato do you hear it in your head in VPW's voice too.

?

yes, with that stare, and something along the lines of "as close as I'm standing to you".

[waysider]

I remember it too---just don't remember the exact session or paragraph or date or Way Mag issue or SNS # or whatever.

That's not the point anyway.

The point is he said it------- and several of us remember it.

[dmiller]

I remember it too---just don't remember the exact session or paragraph or date or Way Mag issue or SNS # or whatever.

That's not the point anyway.

The point is he said it------- and several of us remember it.

Several of us???

More like every dang person on this site!

Who cares when it was said anyway?

Sold a pack of goods, all of us.

It coulda been said in the class.

It coulda been said in a book of his.

It coulda been said at a *Heartbeat* festival.

He coulda said it at an ROA, while revving up one of those Harley's,

or slipping away for a night in the coach.

Regardless -- we bought it (as Branded sang), Hook, Line, and Sinker.

Edited January 6, 2009 by dmiller