VPW and the Snowstorm - What do you believe?

[sirguessalot]

#1 One method would be meekness. I alluded to this before in my response to Mark in Post #633 when I said "We were shown how unbelieving scholars can read errors into the ancient scriptures by way of their methodology, right? " We were taught this in the class, remember? The assumption must be made before beginning that the text is right. Then you look for the answers on THAT side of the tracks, not on the side that you all are on, assuming that it's full of errors.

this statement of yours caught my attention, Mike...i hope you dont mind a few more questions

wondering....

to what degree you've applied such meekness to other sets of books on the planet?...new or old

and to the degree that you haven't, how could you know whether or not their contents can disclose the same interior consistency and life-changing info and such as the pfal series?

is it possible that someone has written something post-pfal that is as (or perhaps even more) profoundly important and vital to God and/or humanity?

how possible is it that others have experienced a similar depth and degree of insight, knowledge, love, power and such from other works?

feel free not to answer, btw

respectfully,

Todd

[Mike]

If we believe that throughout the Scriptures we have the words of God and not of man, many difficulties will disappear. We must allow the Divine Author the rights and privileges claimed and operated by every human author, namely, that He may quote, readapt or repeat in varied forms His own previously written or spoken words. God could have used other forms had He chosen to do so, but it has pleased Him to repeat His own word or words, introducing them in different contexts, with new applications and connotations. Thus it obligates us to study the context, the paragraph and the section where the same word appears and where it was used previously, to see if its usage is in a new sense or not. RHST pg 223

Mike, doesn't this paragraph from Receiving the Holy Spirit Today essentially sum up, or describe, what we have in book and magazine form from the Way Ministry?

seaspray,

A positively perfect pertinent post!

I wonder how many grads are reading that for the first time?

It sure seems like someone knew we'd be talking about all this, and tucked that paragraph away in RHST's Introduction to the Appendixes just for us to find in these later days.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Mike

[Bolshevik]

June, the snow came in June? or July, maybe July . . . no . . . May? August? Let's go with June?

[Ham]

the snow here once ALMOST came in July. It came in June.. it was a crystal clear, blue skied day.. the snow started to decend.. on houses, gas pumps, streets, dogs, cats left to their own devices in the great out of doors, trees..

it's Michigan for crying out loud.. what does one expect?

well.. it happened once.. heheh

[Mike]

good heavens, by your arguments I could reprint any of twi's books and syllabi I want. wanna see how well that flies when their lawyers come after me?

Actually, I think they may feel a little shy about that. Do you think they want the court to find out about Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger, Leonard, etc????? I think NOT!

In fact, this was the one last point I was going to make. It looks to me that God had it all injected into the public domain in a sense. TWI technically owns the copyright, but they can't quite enforce it now that the cat is out of the bag. I think God had Dr assemble previous texts just for this reason, to force TWI to back off when it comes to getting in anyone's face over fair use and/or more than fair use of the PFAL writings. I've heard not one word of them going after the grads who digitized the books onto a CD and mass distributed them years ago. I know they know about it because I talked to a high ranking staff member about it some 5 years ago. God in His foreknowledge got those books mass printed, distributed around the world, and then He freed them from the monsters He knew TWI would become.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Mike

[Bolshevik]

was it 1942? 43?

1889? 1982?

Let's say 1942? The birth year? or was that 1944? there was a war to avoid . . .

[Ham]

I for one don't buy into the concept (anymore) that "god breathed" is equivalent to "Drambuie breath"..

not really trying to mean or anything..

but it's almost as pathetic as the modern day followers of Aleister Crowley..

they hold his "divine revelation" as "the word of gawd"..

[Mike]

this statement of yours caught my attention, Mike...i hope you dont mind a few more questions

wondering....

to what degree you've applied such meekness to other sets of books on the planet?...new or old

I've only had time to apply that rule to the ancient non-existent originals of the Bible via the remnants that have survived. I did that before applying it PFAL. This is all I've had time for.

and to the degree that you haven't, how could you know whether or not their contents can disclose the same interior consistency and life-changing info and such as the pfal series?

is it possible that someone has written something post-pfal that is as (or perhaps even more) profoundly important and vital to God and/or humanity?

how possible is it that others have experienced a similar depth and degree of insight, knowledge, love, power and such from other works?

Well, for one thing hardly anyone has claimed to have God-breathed writings to compete with PFAL. The ones who have seem either laughable, or were not providentially steered in my direction. It was only after a long casual relationship with PFAL that I decided to formalize my study of same. Then another hint of exclusivity is the idea that God finished His restoration project with Dr and us. I'm quite content with sticking with this one set for one lifetime.

feel free not to answer, btw

respectfully,

Todd

[Ham]

and it's really the same mentality..

"isn't the character whose writings you revere, wasn't he an egotistical, arrogant, sex maniac, and drug fiend?"

"well.. *little* issues aside.."

where do you think the vicster learned his *craft* anyway?

[Mike]

June, the snow came in June? or July, maybe July . . . no . . . May? August? Let's go with June?

October 1942

[Bolshevik]

I once saw lightening in January, or was it February? One time in my life.

If I heard a voice, I forget what it said.

October 1942

ah, thanks Mike.

Was it a monday? the 12th? 16th?

not known?

[potato]

god did not inject anything into the public domain. public domain is part of man's law. god can't take some guy's writing and put it in the public domain.

I don't think god had vpw DO anything. vpw did it himself.

however, I'm glad that the RTHS paragraph was cited. it now makes much more sense, knowing that vpw wanted to indoctrinate people with the idea that it's ok to take stuff that other people wrote ABOUT the bible and treat it like it's public domain material because GOD put it in another context. it looks like it worked, too.

[Bolshevik]

it was in Van Wert yes? Lima? New Knoxville?

[Mike]

god did not inject anything into the public domain. public domain is part of man's law. god can't take some guy's writing and put it in the public domain.

I said that IN A SENSE it was injected into the public domain.

[seaspray]

it was in Van Wert yes? Lima? New Knoxville?

It was Payne, Ohio.

[potato]

I said that IN A SENSE it was injected into the public domain.

there is no such thing as injecting something into the public domain "in a sense". either it's in there, or it isn't. if someone holds copyright, they hold copyright and no one copying their work can inject the original work into the public domain on their behalf. the law is pretty clear on this.

[Bolshevik]

thank you, Mr. Seaspray.

October 1942. Payne, Ohio.

A prayer, and a response yes? Then a book burning I think.

[Twinky]

Mike, I have to say that I admire your dogged persistence on this thread.

Can't say I admire your dogged head-in-the-s*** thinking, but you certainly are convinced that you know that you know that you know.

[Bolshevik]

It must have been a weekday. He was working, yes?

[Mark Clarke]

Again, Mark, what is a factual error to you can be seen as not at all the case when you use differing methods to read the writings. This shouldn’t be too hard to see. We were shown how unbelieving scholars can read errors into the ancient scriptures by way of their methodology, right?

So that's why I started the threads in the Doctrinal Forum. Please demonstrate what methods you use to determine that what most people see as blatant errors are not.

[Bolshevik]

"The contradiction of all he had read and heard seemed to fill him with confusion until he underwent an experience in September 1942 that changed his life. Wierwille himself describes, his experience which he claims took place as he prayed in his office in 'Payne, Ohio:

"And I told Father outright that He could have the whole thing, unless there were real genuine answers that I wouldn't ever have to back up on. And that's when He spoke to me audibly, just like I'm talking to you now. He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others.(17)

The Way prizes Wierwille's experience so highly that it counts its beginning from that day and celebrates it annually.

Wierwille relates that he could not believe that God had spoken to him, so the next day he asked God to give him a sign by making it snow. According to Wierwille, the sky was "crystal -blue and clear," yet blizzard-like snow came in the next moment.(18)

Climatological Data for Ohio lists Paulding, Ohio as the weather monitoring station nearest (eight miles northwest) to Payne. Paulding records show no snowfall in September or the first 28 days of October, 1942.(19) Four or five years earlier Wierwille had given a different account of his call from God which did not mention a snowfall nor did it explicitly say that the voice was audible. At that time, Wierwille wrote simply, "...Father clearly spoke to me one night while I was praying..."(20) While the audibility and snow may be later embellishments, Wierwille claims the same Divine direction for his teaching in both cases."

http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/rsr_vcchap1-2.htm

From "Vesper Chimes" to "The Way International"

The Founder, History and Activities of The Way International

by John P. Juedes and Douglas V. Morton

source 19, need source 19 . . .

Edited January 27, 2009 by Bolshevik

[Bolshevik]

This ain't helping:

http://publicrecords.onlinesearches.com/OH_Paulding.htm

maybe I ain't listened to the right voice yet . . .

[seaspray]

The heart's cry of the common man is for help. Man's help truly has to come from the Lord. We must learn to go to God's Word, the fountainhead of all truth, for that help. WM 07-08/85

So Mike, the period concluding this paragraph is the final period?

[Mark Clarke]

The Way prizes Wierwille's experience so highly that it counts its beginning from that day and celebrates it annually.

Actually, TWI counts its beginning from the first broadcast of Vesper Chimes, not from the time God allegedly spoke to him. Small point, but worth mentioning for accuracy's sake.

[Bolshevik]

try this!

http://weather-warehouse.com/index.html

ah fudge, it'll cost at least $50