Why did Noah curse Canaan?

[RottieGrrrl]

Happy new year to all! I just started a "read the bible in a year" online program, and I don't understand the part in Genesis 9 where Noah got drunk and fell asleep naked in his tent and his 3 sons covered him, and then Noah got mad at his youngest son Ham and cursed Canaan. Is there some explanation for this? Thank you for any help! It's got me befuddled! :)

[Cynic]

Happy new year to all! I just started a "read the bible in a year" online program, and I don't understand the part in Genesis 9 where Noah got drunk and fell asleep naked in his tent and his 3 sons covered him, and then Noah got mad at his youngest son Ham and cursed Canaan. Is there some explanation for this? Thank you for any help! It's got me befuddled! :)

An informative answer to your question is probably going to venture into speculation rather than be restrained to exegesis. At the following link, however, is one interesting, though somewhat speculative view:

http://www.leithart.com/2005/05/27/noahs-nakedness

Disclaimer: Although I find this view interesting, I will not presently endorse it.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Cynic

[WordWolf]

Let me get back to this when I have time to do it correctly.

[RottieGrrrl]

Cynic thanks for the link. Whew! you are correct there are a variety of views out there.

WordWolf. That would be great, I'd love to hear what you have to say about this. :)

[kimberly]

Ham was the middle child, Shem was the youngest. Out of Ham came Nimrod. From Shem came Abram..the bloodline of the Promised Messiah.

I have learned to seek the counsel of Jewish folks when it comes to Old Testament stuff. I have Jewish friends I can call on when I have questions. I still attend Synagogue and a Messianic church periodically to keep up my learning of the Old Testament. Yikes, do they all have the knowledge and understanding!!!

I was told it was sexual...Ham and his mother. Thus, the cursing......

[Sushi]

Kimberly, the relevant part is from 5:00 to 8:37. Please don't watch the rest unless you have a strong tolerance for adult language or content.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Sushi

[WordWolf]

Last time this came up in passing, here's what I posted.

===================

t's mentioned here:

Genesis 9:2-23.

(http://www.biblegateway.com)

It says that Ham "saw [Noah's] nakedness".

What does it mean?

Well,

read Leviticus 18 and Leviticus 20 in their entirety,

and you'll see.

Leviticus 20:11a is the short form.

"And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's

nakedness:"

(Or Leviticus 18:8.)

So, Ham didn't literally do anything to Mr Noah-he did it to Mrs Noah.

Now, the reason Canaan, son of Ham, was cursed becomes a little

clearer. (His father was Ham, and his mother...)

I wanted to get that covered also.

In case anyone's curious,

that was covered by one of the corps in one of the "gmir" articles

(which stopped around the time PoP was read)

and that's where I saw this taught.

Further, I lent that article to a guy who had NO connection to twi,

and was Jewish-and-when he gave it back, he agreed with the

conclusions.

============

Let me know if you need me to expand on this.

[RottieGrrrl]

kimberly thanks for clearing that up. To be honest with you I chose the NLT version to read online because it's easier for me, but it's probably NOT the best translation. That is where it says Ham is the youngest son. NLT Genesis 8-11 (Gen 9:24)

Word thanks a bunch, I will go over this later today when I am doing my study, and interesting enough I am doing this study from biblegateway.com. It lets you choose your own version of the bible and how you want to read it. I chose Chronologically. But I have to be careful with this particular translation I guess. It's easy to read but not quite accurate, as kimberly inadvertently pointed out.

So I will go over this later tonight when I am doing my little study! :)

Edited January 4, 2009 by RottieGrrrl

[RottieGrrrl]

well now wait a minute, not to drift here, but I just pulled out my American Standard and Gen 9:22-24 sure looks like Ham is the youngest son to me. Any thoughts WW or anybody else?

[WordWolf]

I don't see that it makes much difference if Ham was the VERY youngest,

or one of the youngest. It looks to me as if he is probably the very youngest.

[RottieGrrrl]

WW you are being a great help to me, thanks loads. :)

[JeffSjo]

Me too WW, even though I didn't ask the question.

The simplicity of the "uncovering of his nakedness" phrase is very straightforward.

(added in editing)

IMO it may be profitable to note how excuses of needing to satisfied would have not changed a darn thing for HAM.

Edited January 8, 2009 by JeffSjo

[JeffSjo]

I remember in my former splinter group that this record was used to warn us off of any thinking that would tend to cause us to consider the negatives concerning Wierwille's life. As if exposing Wierwille's sin was comparable to uncovering Noah's nakedness.

I compared that with the Lord's warning to Laodicea in Rev. 3:18 about their nakedness being seen and thought that as far as nakedness being seen and the associated shame that the world needed to see my splinter group's twisted doctrines more than the splinter group leader wanted to hide under his rock while falsely claiming the Lord's blessing and sanction.

In our splinter group the leader expected the same treatment as how he taught us to treat Wierwille and any attempt to expose his fear, his bitterness at his wife, his self-glorification, or his twisted handling of scripture would be met by being "cursed" just like those folks who expose Wierwille for what he's been accused of. Rank and priviledge have their benefits in the kingdom of heaven for these turds folks.

But when I compare how openly and honestly Paul handles them man who slept with his father's wife in Corinth it makes it clear that Wiewillian immorality is not to be sanctioned in the church in any way, form, shape, or manner. (1Co 5:8)

We were never even suppose to fellowship with a man who did what Wierwille did ( 1Co 5:9-13), let alone honor him as a master and teacher. Wiertwille corrupted himself and the whole loaf of TWI by his leaven.

As I've been considering this record of Corinth I've been thinking that how Paul handled his own life and these issues in the church must have been like a ice-cold bucket of water in the face of the believers because of the "anything goes" Corinthian culture the believers came from.

This is why the straight-forward manner in which WordWolf handled the scripture in question helps me. The issue with Ham and Canaan had to do with sexual immorality, not dishonoring leadership.

(edited for clarity)

(added in editing)

The one thing that I feel pretty good about the nakedness thing as it's used is that shame seems to be at the center of it. Now whether or not feeling shame in a given situation is right or just the product of abuse is key to how it works for folks I guess.

Edited January 9, 2009 by JeffSjo