I've also wondered why anyone would want to stay with an abusive cult like TWI-2. based on what I've read here at GS.
But why do wives stay with husbands that physically and emotionally abuse them?
It's puzzling to say the least!
My best guesses are that some stay because of family and friends still in. Others because of fear of leaving, although that makes no good sense to me. While others may be staying because of a sense of belonging to something they may think is of God.
What got me to leave was that someone I trusted showed me where several doctrines we were taught by TWI were erroneous. Plus I was told about all the adultry going on as well as other corrupt practices within TWI.
There wasn't a website showing all the error and corruption at that time, if there was my guess is many more would have left much sooner had they known all this back then.
So for these folks in TWI-2 I guess we should pray for them to see the truth and hopefully get free of this cult.
Maybe we should give them the 'opportunity' to show us chapter and verse before shoving their posts out to fertilize the garden.
So, I say....
:)-->WELCOME!:)-->
There is a lot of information here. If you've been a very good follower of TWI then most all of this will be a surprise and possibly quite shocking. Many doctrines of TWI, when seen with glasses off are exposed as completely wrong.
There are many articles on the front page and much information in the threads. If you're looking for information on something specific, please let us know and we will gladly point you in the right direction.
If you're in the mood to attack be forewarned that many of us have first hand experiences that aren't so nice and will most likely choose 'fight' over 'flight'. We're always up for lively discussion, but not flaming, namecalling and hit and run trolling.
Some wives stay with their husbands because if they leave, they may never see their children again. Some scoff at this, but is it worth taking the risk?
quote:WHY THEN.......do the twi/vpw/lcm defenders continue to stake their claims on a corporation that is "blessed by God?"
...
To me.......there's fungus among us.
Fresh,
Are you referring to folks who are still involved? I don't know of any, or hardly any that have posted here. What fungus? I wish there were more...I have a few questions myself..
"Some wives stay with their husbands because if they leave, they may never see their children again. Some scoff at this, but is it worth taking the risk?"
Please forgive me if I offended you, it was not indended to be scoffed at or taken lightly.
Maybe that was a bad example, but I know of a woman who takes abuse and I was using this example as possibly the same state of mind some TWI-2 folks have for staying.
I would never scoff at folks in abusive situations, rather I pray for them, whether they are in abusive relationships such as a bad marriage or TWI.
Simpleton if the welcome was for me, thanks.
I'm actually an old poster going back to 1999 with Waydale and the first GS. It's been about a year since I last posted here.
Why would anyone remain in the Catholic church with full knowledge that their priest's molested and raped children? And these crimes were covered up by their Bishop's and Cardinal's? And their Pope finally made an attempt to rectify the situation only because of media attenion? Why do people commit crime just so they can be put in prison? Why do some people go from one abusive relationship to another? Probably for the same reason's people stay in twi. What are they? Some people like to abuse and some like to be abused. or it hasn't happened to them and they don't care. or they know it is happening but minimize it. or so believe in the organization they will stick by it, if only to ensure its survival. or their survival is completely dependent upon the organization's. or the way things are is comfortable and it is just too much effort to change. or it was good enough for my parents so it is good enough for me. or I made my bed and now I'll sleep in it. or you just don't give up on things. or I know there is good there some place. or It is my fault things aren't going right. or .....................
You gave a an excellent answer to why many folks stayed involved with TWI, an answer that 'mind control' is simply too much of a pat (and knee jerk) answer to really address!
"Can someone point me to those verses of scripture that command us to stay in a corrupt organization at all costs?"
Nope - I can't point out any at all.. not without Biblical Research, - ya know - Greek interlinears, Aramaic lexicons and literal translations according to usage!!! Then, maybe I can squeeze enough private interpretation into a verse that will fit your inquiry!
StayedTooLong (me too)
I think you and Outin88 covered all the bases.
I think many people who are still in are in the category of "they know it is happening [or what has happened] but minimize it."
...but StayedTooLong, you said something about "some people like to abuse and some like to be abused." (I hear a song coming on.) VPW used to preach (in CF&S?) about abuse victims having a spirit of masochism. It caused many in TWI to write off those who were being abused as "wanting it." Although I can theoretically conceive of such a thing, I have never talked to any abuse victim who wanted to be abused. They always wanted the abuse to stop.
I just wanted to explode that TWI myth.
As to why people are still "in," I know I felt for a time that I would try to "save" the organization by being an example of a good believer and good Corps. However, I only thought I was standing against overly religious leaders. I had no idea of the extent of the corruption at the Root level.
I agree -- had the Internet been around 20 years ago, the numbers of innies would have died off that much sooner.
I been thinking about it off and on since the last thread on the subject. How about this;
Mind Control = a person being directed by another to think a certain way about anything that ignores or changes the facts and truths about the given subject or situation and the one doing the directing has a motive that only benefits himself
Eh.... A stab at some sort of definition of the term. At least what it means to me. Put in the positive where the facts and truths are not ignored and drop the benefits part and you have reality.
Does that make sense?
I'm guessing you just do not like the term. I can understand that. It is a term that has different meanings to different people. But the tactics discussed on those web sites (twi tactics) are more what I was trying to point out.
[This message was edited by Vertical Limit on January 16, 2003 at 20:52.]
quote:"Can someone point me to those verses of scripture that command us to stay in a corrupt organization at all costs?"
Nope - I can't point out any at all.. not without Biblical Research, - ya know - Greek interlinears, Aramaic lexicons and literal translations according to usage!!! Then, maybe I can squeeze enough private interpretation into a verse that will fit your inquiry!
Too funny.......squeezing enough private interpretation into a verse to fit one's inquiry. :D-->
To me....... "fungus among us" are not those tenderhearted towards God who are deceived; but rather, those who "underhandedly deal the deception." For example, the leaders at the top who know the abuses, who know HOW the abs is stashed away for self-serving purposes, who carry guns at hq and intimidate all who stand up to the MOG/WOG, who bring other girls into the circle of seduction, etc. etc.
I know many good folks.....like Grasshopper......who have valid reasons for staying in the corruption. I don't dispute that. But as mentioned above.....
Adding up all the errors taught and looking at the structure of pfal begins to reveal how exactly wierwille pulled it off.
The results of pfal;
1. Wierwille is the man of God of the World
2. pfal has defined who God is
3. pfal has defined how God communicates to men
4. pfal has defined what fellowship with God is
5. pfal has defined the structure of the bible
6. pfal has defined the structure of the church today
(in favor of wierwille and twi)
Methods used---MATH Formulas
A=B=C=D=E=F = RESULT
wrong thinking or believing as defined by pfal
equals
out of alignment and harmony
equals
out of fellowship
equals
sin
equals
You are against God and any term used in the bible that describes someone who is against God can be used against you to get you back to what wierwille and pfal has defined as right believing and thinking.
How pfal came up with what is right believing can be found with some of the same Math.
I suspect Bullingers influence had a lot to do with it. And that Wierwille may have even thought he was right. But just looking at the results should be a giant red flag!
If a scripture did not fit into Wierwilles formulas then it was twisted or changed or "held in abeyance". Same with the holy spirit field.
pfal is the root and base of wrong application and interpretation of scripture.
By the end of the class Wierwille had us by the nuts (sorry ladies).
pfal is in error
[This message was edited by Vertical Limit on January 24, 2003 at 23:09.]
Fresh--your last post description sounds like somthin' outta' Hollywood ---
I am still just amazed at how fooled I was.
I mentioned this somewhere else ...The LCM wanna be thread I think....I believe a few people were led to become hard hearted....
BUT OVERWHELMINGLY...LCM and VP, and now RFR just validates this mean hard hearted behaviour....course Rosie has distanced herself..for appearences sake and has her henchmen ...the RC's and Corpse Coords'...do the dirty work.
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GarthP2000
With some folks, I think 'bullpaddies' would be a better description.
{{{SPLAT}}}
:o-->
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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Outin88!
Freshair99,
I've also wondered why anyone would want to stay with an abusive cult like TWI-2. based on what I've read here at GS.
But why do wives stay with husbands that physically and emotionally abuse them?
It's puzzling to say the least!
My best guesses are that some stay because of family and friends still in. Others because of fear of leaving, although that makes no good sense to me. While others may be staying because of a sense of belonging to something they may think is of God.
What got me to leave was that someone I trusted showed me where several doctrines we were taught by TWI were erroneous. Plus I was told about all the adultry going on as well as other corrupt practices within TWI.
There wasn't a website showing all the error and corruption at that time, if there was my guess is many more would have left much sooner had they known all this back then.
So for these folks in TWI-2 I guess we should pray for them to see the truth and hopefully get free of this cult.
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FreshAir 99
Garth,
ROFL..........thanks.
:)-->
Outin88,
Right you are.......I will continue to pray for the tenderhearted to be free from this cult.
Those "defenders" who come to GS Cafe and scream and slander are deceived too. Guess I should recognize this deception and pray for them too.
;)-->
I'll work on it. Thanks.
Fresh
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simpleton
Maybe we should give them the 'opportunity' to show us chapter and verse before shoving their posts out to fertilize the garden.
So, I say....
There is a lot of information here. If you've been a very good follower of TWI then most all of this will be a surprise and possibly quite shocking. Many doctrines of TWI, when seen with glasses off are exposed as completely wrong.
There are many articles on the front page and much information in the threads. If you're looking for information on something specific, please let us know and we will gladly point you in the right direction.
If you're in the mood to attack be forewarned that many of us have first hand experiences that aren't so nice and will most likely choose 'fight' over 'flight'. We're always up for lively discussion, but not flaming, namecalling and hit and run trolling.
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Shellon
Some wives stay with their husbands because if they leave, they may never see their children again. Some scoff at this, but is it worth taking the risk?
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oldiesman
Fresh,
Are you referring to folks who are still involved? I don't know of any, or hardly any that have posted here. What fungus? I wish there were more...I have a few questions myself..
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Outin88!
Hi Shellon
You wrote;
"Some wives stay with their husbands because if they leave, they may never see their children again. Some scoff at this, but is it worth taking the risk?"
Please forgive me if I offended you, it was not indended to be scoffed at or taken lightly.
Maybe that was a bad example, but I know of a woman who takes abuse and I was using this example as possibly the same state of mind some TWI-2 folks have for staying.
I would never scoff at folks in abusive situations, rather I pray for them, whether they are in abusive relationships such as a bad marriage or TWI.
Simpleton if the welcome was for me, thanks.
I'm actually an old poster going back to 1999 with Waydale and the first GS. It's been about a year since I last posted here.
God bless ya'll.
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Shellon
hi outin... nawwwwwww you didn't offend me at all, I was just tossin in my 14 cents.
:-)
Shellon
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lindyhopper
Fungus among us?
I don't know I like to think of myself as a "fun-guy".
ba-dum-bum
Thank you I'm here all night.
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grasshopper
I'd like to think of myself as a "good mushroom"
some of you know why I am still in.
it sure ain't any fun.
hopper
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lindyhopper
you are a good mushroom.
-->
thinking about being in makes me want to take a sh..
Or is that dangtake?
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Stayed Too Long
Why would anyone remain in the Catholic church with full knowledge that their priest's molested and raped children? And these crimes were covered up by their Bishop's and Cardinal's? And their Pope finally made an attempt to rectify the situation only because of media attenion? Why do people commit crime just so they can be put in prison? Why do some people go from one abusive relationship to another? Probably for the same reason's people stay in twi. What are they? Some people like to abuse and some like to be abused. or it hasn't happened to them and they don't care. or they know it is happening but minimize it. or so believe in the organization they will stick by it, if only to ensure its survival. or their survival is completely dependent upon the organization's. or the way things are is comfortable and it is just too much effort to change. or it was good enough for my parents so it is good enough for me. or I made my bed and now I'll sleep in it. or you just don't give up on things. or I know there is good there some place. or It is my fault things aren't going right. or .....................
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GarthP2000
Stayed Too Long,
You gave a an excellent answer to why many folks stayed involved with TWI, an answer that 'mind control' is simply too much of a pat (and knee jerk) answer to really address!
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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Hope R.
Fresh:
"Can someone point me to those verses of scripture that command us to stay in a corrupt organization at all costs?"
Nope - I can't point out any at all.. not without Biblical Research, - ya know - Greek interlinears, Aramaic lexicons and literal translations according to usage!!! Then, maybe I can squeeze enough private interpretation into a verse that will fit your inquiry!
StayedTooLong (me too)
I think you and Outin88 covered all the bases.
I think many people who are still in are in the category of "they know it is happening [or what has happened] but minimize it."
Hope R. color>size>face>
Life, what is it but a dream? - Lewis Carroll
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shazdancer
Excuse the slight derailment...
...but StayedTooLong, you said something about "some people like to abuse and some like to be abused." (I hear a song coming on.) VPW used to preach (in CF&S?) about abuse victims having a spirit of masochism. It caused many in TWI to write off those who were being abused as "wanting it." Although I can theoretically conceive of such a thing, I have never talked to any abuse victim who wanted to be abused. They always wanted the abuse to stop.
I just wanted to explode that TWI myth.
As to why people are still "in," I know I felt for a time that I would try to "save" the organization by being an example of a good believer and good Corps. However, I only thought I was standing against overly religious leaders. I had no idea of the extent of the corruption at the Root level.
I agree -- had the Internet been around 20 years ago, the numbers of innies would have died off that much sooner.
Regards,
shaz
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Vertical Limit
Garth
I been thinking about it off and on since the last thread on the subject. How about this;
Mind Control = a person being directed by another to think a certain way about anything that ignores or changes the facts and truths about the given subject or situation and the one doing the directing has a motive that only benefits himself
Eh.... A stab at some sort of definition of the term. At least what it means to me. Put in the positive where the facts and truths are not ignored and drop the benefits part and you have reality.
Does that make sense?
I'm guessing you just do not like the term. I can understand that. It is a term that has different meanings to different people. But the tactics discussed on those web sites (twi tactics) are more what I was trying to point out.
[This message was edited by Vertical Limit on January 16, 2003 at 20:52.]
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TheInvisibleDan
"fungus" as compared to what - alfalfa sprouts?-
what would a more natural representation for goodness/truth be in this updated analogy of the wheat and tares?
I'm trying to imagine an antithesis for fungus.
Then again it's late and I need to go to bed.
[This message was edited by TheInvisibleDan on January 16, 2003 at 21:22.]
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Vertical Limit
I guess deceived would be a better word for it.
Any way more directly on the topic-
We were told that we should stay because twi taught us the word.
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FreshAir 99
Hope,
Too funny.......squeezing enough private interpretation into a verse to fit one's inquiry.
:D-->
To me....... "fungus among us" are not those tenderhearted towards God who are deceived; but rather, those who "underhandedly deal the deception." For example, the leaders at the top who know the abuses, who know HOW the abs is stashed away for self-serving purposes, who carry guns at hq and intimidate all who stand up to the MOG/WOG, who bring other girls into the circle of seduction, etc. etc.
I know many good folks.....like Grasshopper......who have valid reasons for staying in the corruption. I don't dispute that. But as mentioned above.....
There's fungus among us.
Fresh
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Vertical Limit
Adding up all the errors taught and looking at the structure of pfal begins to reveal how exactly wierwille pulled it off.
The results of pfal;
1. Wierwille is the man of God of the World
2. pfal has defined who God is
3. pfal has defined how God communicates to men
4. pfal has defined what fellowship with God is
5. pfal has defined the structure of the bible
6. pfal has defined the structure of the church today
(in favor of wierwille and twi)
Methods used---MATH Formulas
A=B=C=D=E=F = RESULT
wrong thinking or believing as defined by pfal
equals
out of alignment and harmony
equals
out of fellowship
equals
sin
equals
You are against God and any term used in the bible that describes someone who is against God can be used against you to get you back to what wierwille and pfal has defined as right believing and thinking.
How pfal came up with what is right believing can be found with some of the same Math.
I suspect Bullingers influence had a lot to do with it. And that Wierwille may have even thought he was right. But just looking at the results should be a giant red flag!
If a scripture did not fit into Wierwilles formulas then it was twisted or changed or "held in abeyance". Same with the holy spirit field.
pfal is the root and base of wrong application and interpretation of scripture.
By the end of the class Wierwille had us by the nuts (sorry ladies).
pfal is in error
[This message was edited by Vertical Limit on January 24, 2003 at 23:09.]
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washingtonweather
Yeah
Fresh--your last post description sounds like somthin' outta' Hollywood ---
I am still just amazed at how fooled I was.
I mentioned this somewhere else ...The LCM wanna be thread I think....I believe a few people were led to become hard hearted....
BUT OVERWHELMINGLY...LCM and VP, and now RFR just validates this mean hard hearted behaviour....course Rosie has distanced herself..for appearences sake and has her henchmen ...the RC's and Corpse Coords'...do the dirty work.
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Vertical Limit
That formula in my previous post also gave leadership the right to dictate and analyze our thoughts.
The results of pfal are wrong
pfal is wrong
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